One More Look: Analyzing the legacy of “A Star Is Born”

Tony Maietta [00:00:31]:
Hello. I'm film historian, Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve [00:00:35]:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta [00:00:38]:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve [00:00:44]:
And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta [00:00:50]:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood

Brad Shreve [00:00:55]:
with I'm Brad Shreve.

Tony Maietta [00:00:57]:
Well, I was singing. Wait. I was I was gonna start singing.

Brad Shreve [00:01:01]:
Go ahead. Go ahead.

Tony Maietta [00:01:02]:
No. We can't sing. I can't

Brad Shreve [00:01:03]:
do a little bit.

Tony Maietta [00:01:04]:
This is Tony Maietta. I can't. No. I'm not gonna sing. I want we want people to listen, not tune off. The The reason that I thought about singing was because we want I want so badly to be able to play music for you because we're talking about A Star is Born, all of them.

Brad Shreve [00:01:19]:
A Star is Born, A Star is Born, A Star is Born, and A Star is Born. 4 Star is Borns and the real first Star is Born, though it didn't have the same title.

Tony Maietta [00:01:30]:
Right. Right. So we're talking about that today. I think both of us have had a real Star is Born fest. I know I have, especially yesterday. I was catching up on all of them.

Brad Shreve [00:01:39]:
Some were so delightful and some, oh my god. We'll get into those. I think we'll have different opinions.

Tony Maietta [00:01:47]:
I think we will too. I think we will too. I think some of the things we agree on.

Brad Shreve [00:01:50]:
So let's dive in.

Tony Maietta [00:01:51]:
Do we wanna talk about the genesis first of A Star is Born?

Brad Shreve [00:01:53]:
Yeah. Let's start there.

Tony Maietta [00:01:54]:
But of the whole Tony, you know, it's such a, I don't wanna say, staple, but it's legendary. I mean, every time this movie gets made, it's a hit in some form or another. I mean, and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I mean, the one with Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper was probably the biggest. It's just an it's the story started because it tells a story of Hollywood, it actually started way back in 1932 when David O. Selznick purchased an article by a very well known, at the time, Hollywood columnist named Adela Rogers Saint John who wrote all the early a lot of early interviews with movie stars in the twenties thirties. The what what they bought was called it was an article called The Truth About Hollywood, and it was really the first time, Hollywood took a look at itself for all of its warts and wrinkles. And so this was purchased by David O'Selznick who developed it into who wanna develop it into a screenplay.

Tony Maietta [00:02:53]:
And the screenplay was eventually called What Price Hollywood, which is the unofficial first version of A Star is Born starring Constance Bennett and Lowell Sherman. You know, it wasn't called A Star is Born, and the story is is very, very similar to it. It's a precode film, which means it's before 1934, which means they can get away with a lot that they could have gotten away with when the film was actually made as A Star is Born in 1937.

Brad Shreve [00:03:20]:
And I can't wait to touch on those.

Tony Maietta [00:03:22]:
And, what what price? Hollywood or the or all

Brad Shreve [00:03:25]:
of them?

Tony Maietta [00:03:25]:
What they were able to get away with. Yeah. It's it's pretty amazing. You know, the it's taken from the the famous play, What Price Glory. So what price Hollywood? And, you know, Hollywood at that time think about it. In the in the early thirties, talkies had only been, running the show for 5 years, you know, 6 years. Jazz Singer is 27. So there were still so many myths already, but still so many myths about Hollywood and about being famous.

Tony Maietta [00:03:53]:
I mean, it was already iconic and but it was much it was a very, very, I wanna say, a very naive, way of looking at coming to Hollywood and becoming a star.

Brad Shreve [00:04:05]:
And that's what I I found fascinating. And this is basically little over 15 years after Hollywood became Hollywood, thereabouts, maybe a little bit more.

Tony Maietta [00:04:13]:
Right.

Brad Shreve [00:04:13]:
All the movie industry moved out here 19 10 ish, 19 fifteen ish. So it wasn't that long, and it it instantly became this thing.

Tony Maietta [00:04:21]:
No. It wasn't. That's what's that's what's fascinating to me is that the the the myth of Hollywood was pretty much in was so entrenched they can make a movie about it in 1932 because 1,000 and 100 and millions of hopefuls came out here, you know, by the truckload yearly to become stars because there had never been anything like this before. So even that early, even 1932, we have the the myth of Hollywood solidified. And the thing of the thing that's interesting about that I find interesting about what price Hollywood is the fact that it's, you know, it is the embryonic version of A Star is Born, but there's not but what we think of as A Star is Born, which is 1 actor going up and 1 actor going down. Doesn't sound right. 1 actor 1 star being born and 1 star, descending. In What Price Hollywood, it's an actress and a director, and there's not a romance between them.

Tony Maietta [00:05:17]:
The director is actually played by Lowell Sherman. He's a questionable sexuality.

Brad Shreve [00:05:23]:
It's not questionable. I think it's fair to say. Just the days of the sissy.

Tony Maietta [00:05:28]:
He's very it's very funny. It's very funny because whenever you see a precode movie and you see a slightly effeminate character, because god knows they all disappeared after 1934 when the code came into effect, or if they were, you know, they were murders or or they were very, very, very heavily veiled. The hints about his sexuality are really kind of interesting. It's not just his effeminate manner. I mean, he talks about all these women, yet we have never seen him with 1.

Brad Shreve [00:05:50]:
Here's where I get it from. I mean, he was slightly effeminate. He wasn't as effeminate when the the sissy era came, what, in the thirties and forties?

Tony Maietta [00:05:57]:
Yeah. Very true. He was no Franklin Pangborn. That's for sure. No.

Brad Shreve [00:06:00]:
No. He wasn't that but he was definitely effeminate. He's handing out the flowers at Brown Derby. Okay. So, yeah, straight guy could hand out flowers, but he seemed a little more into it. He bumps into that woman and says, pardon me, sir. He realized it's a woman. He goes, oh, who's your tailor? And the first night together, Max wakes up after his drunk in bed, and Mary slept on the couch.

Brad Shreve [00:06:26]:
Mhmm. And she says he didn't come on to her in a romantic way.

Tony Maietta [00:06:30]:
Right.

Brad Shreve [00:06:30]:
And she adds, that's the first time that ever happened.

Tony Maietta [00:06:33]:
That's good. You it's good that you caught that.

Brad Shreve [00:06:35]:
Yeah. Who I had to watch it again.

Tony Maietta [00:06:37]:
Well, there's no romance between, the director and the actress. That's very true, and I think that I don't know. You know, it's funny because it just when you're watching it and you have the history of all the other stars borns behind you and you're watching this, you're like, but wait a minute. Aren't they supposed to have the romance? Because that's part of the tension. That's part of the tragedy. And it's not in What Price Hollywood. You know, she has a romance with someone else and that doesn't she gets married and that doesn't end well, doesn't work out for her. It's almost it's just when you're watching Web Price Hollywood, it's just not formed yet.

Tony Maietta [00:07:10]:
And you can see why Selznick, 5 years later, wanted to redo it and make the romance between the star that's rising and the star that's falling because there's your tension. Yeah. That's what the story is. It's you're not only dealing with the the career thing, but the love. I love What Price Hollywood. I it's probably it's high up on my list if we're gonna rank these, and I know you like it too.

Brad Shreve [00:07:33]:
Yeah. In my opinion, it it's slow. It it's not the most entertainment to watch, but I actually think it's the best in its portrayal of the dark side of Hollywood.

Tony Maietta [00:07:43]:
The very best out of all of them.

Brad Shreve [00:07:45]:
I think hands down. Really? Yeah. Even as dark as

Tony Maietta [00:07:49]:
Oh my god.

Brad Shreve [00:07:50]:
Really? Bradley Cooper, Lady Gaga version. I just felt it was and I also like that Mary, who is

Tony Maietta [00:07:55]:
The star that's born. Yeah. The up and coming star.

Brad Shreve [00:07:57]:
Up and coming star. She starts as a waitress at the Brown Derby Mhmm. Which I thought was fun to see the Brown Derby back then. She is not sweet and innocent like the other in all the other movies. No. She knows what she wants, and if she has

Tony Maietta [00:08:11]:
Well, there ain't nothing sweet and innocent about Streisand in 77.

Brad Shreve [00:08:15]:
Well, that's, yeah, that's true. But Yes.

Tony Maietta [00:08:18]:
I know what you mean, though.

Brad Shreve [00:08:19]:
Mary, it it doesn't just fall into Mary's lap. Mary is going for it.

Tony Maietta [00:08:22]:
She is a she's a typical stare she's what she's funny is she's the stereotypical blonde bombshell star, and you can see that that's the kind of star she's gonna become, Mary Evans. She's gonna be like a Jean Harlow. Yes. That's her well, she's Constance Bennett, and that was Constance Bennett's persona was that. But, no. She's not. You're right. When they redid it in 37 with Janet Gaynor, who was, you know

Brad Shreve [00:08:44]:
Farm girl.

Tony Maietta [00:08:45]:
Who was a farm girl. I mean, she's Janet Gaynor. Janet Gaynor won the 1st Academy Award in 1929, and she was her persona was a sweet, young girl. So they Shreve they changed that whole I I love the fact that Mary's kinda tough Yeah. In What Price Hollywood. You know what I mean? She's got the quips, and she's got the one liners. What always bothers me about this, about the the early stars borns, and this stopped in 54 with the ultimate version, I'm sorry, just is with Judy, is they don't show how she she they don't show what inspires. They don't there's no witnessing of this talent.

Tony Maietta [00:09:26]:
Mhmm. You know? That was one of the that was one of the major things about the 54 version was it was very important that we see Norman Maine, aka James Mason, see her stardom, see her talent. Mhmm. That would that would then propel him to say, you know, you're a great talent. We don't see that in the first two. You know, with we just she just becomes a star. You know? Mary Evans has that great long you know, she can't get the line right about Binky not proposing to her. Is that was that was that his name? Mhmm.

Tony Maietta [00:09:55]:
And she just you know, and she's terrible, and she just rehearses it and rehearses it and rehearses it. So we have take their word for it. We have to take their word that she when she becomes a star, she's this great talent. We don't witness that. Same thing with Janet Gaynor. Janet Gaynor is running around doing impressions at this party, and that's supposed to inspire Norman Maine to think she can be a star. I Yeah. That's always seems wanting to me.

Tony Maietta [00:10:18]:
Yeah. It doesn't bother me as much in What Price Hollywood as it does in The Star is Born, but I love What Price Hollywood. I do I I agree with you.

Brad Shreve [00:10:26]:
Another example is so Mary gets what she wants. Her husband is a polo player, and when she first meets him, she's not all that interested. Not that she's not interested in him, but he's not gonna help her in her career in any way. He's just a polo player. Mhmm. That's her attitude. Yeah. She wants what she wants.

Tony Maietta [00:10:43]:
You can see how superfluous that character is, though. You can see why they jettisoned him to make their romance between the 2 major characters because he really is. You're, like, kind of like, well, you're what do you what do you have to do with this plot? He You know, how how do you serve the plot here?

Brad Shreve [00:10:58]:
He is critical to the plot because of her redemption at the end. That's the only purpose he serves.

Tony Maietta [00:11:04]:
Yeah. I guess so. But I guess they've they realized we don't need you. We'll make, you know, we'll make the romance between

Brad Shreve [00:11:11]:
a dull character.

Tony Maietta [00:11:12]:
Yeah. He's a dull character played by a pretty dull actor.

Brad Shreve [00:11:16]:
And do you know who plays him?

Tony Maietta [00:11:18]:
Yeah. But you tell me.

Brad Shreve [00:11:19]:
It is played by oh, wait a minute. Lowell

Tony Maietta [00:11:23]:
No. Lowell Sherman is is Max.

Brad Shreve [00:11:25]:
I'm sorry. Yeah. Actually, it's Neil Hamilton Mhmm. Who the whole time I'm watching the movie, I'm like, I know this guy's voice. I know this guy's voice. It was driving me crazy. Mhmm. He was commissioner Gordon in the 19 sixties Brad.

Brad Shreve [00:11:38]:
Yes. And he looks so

Tony Maietta [00:11:40]:
That's right.

Brad Shreve [00:11:41]:
So suave.

Tony Maietta [00:11:43]:
And his acting technique had not improved.

Brad Shreve [00:11:45]:
No.

Tony Maietta [00:11:47]:
You know, it's it's fascinating to look at it from the hindsight of the all the other stars borns to see where this really started and also see why Selznick felt impelled to take it further and streamline it. So in 1937, we have the first official Star is Born starring Janet Gaynor and Fredric March, which pretty much set the parameters for all the Star is Borns to follow. There's although, I gotta tell you, one of my favorite things about A Star is Born, and correct me if I'm wrong, I do think he says this in Web Price. There's a famous line in every single star is born. In fact, I wanna call the name of this episode, one one more look at you, because every single character, every single Norman Maine says to Esther Blodgett, you know, with all the names change, says calls her back, and she says, what? And he says, I would just want to take another look at you. This is a through line through all the stars borns. Did they do it on 1 Price Hollywood? I'm trying to, for some reason, I'm thinking I can't remember.

Brad Shreve [00:12:46]:
I don't recall that. If it was done, it would not have been done in the same way because there wouldn't be that attraction.

Tony Maietta [00:12:53]:
It's not a romantic.

Brad Shreve [00:12:54]:
Yeah. The romantic attraction.

Tony Maietta [00:12:56]:
Yeah. 37 set the parameters for this. Had that one line which has been through every single in some form or another. You know, I have a lot of things to say about the Streisand version. For me, the best part of it is when she sings one more look at you at the end of the film. That's the best part for me, but we'll get to that. But in the Lady Gaga version Mhmm. He does the same thing.

Tony Maietta [00:13:20]:
I just want another look at you. So that's carried through everyone, and that starts with the original script for the 1937, which was written by Dorothy Parker, the famous wit, and her husband, Alan Campbell, directed by William Wellman. So that's set in it. The very famous ending of this is missus Norman Maine began with the 37 star is born. Yep. And it's carried through against Drysand being Drysand had to play with it a little bit, but there's still the essence is still acknowledging the loss of the husband by saying this is missus Norman Maine, which is very moving in particularly in the Garland version.

Brad Shreve [00:13:59]:
Tony, I'm stopping our conversation real quick.

Tony Maietta [00:14:01]:
Why? Why, Brett? We're we're in the middle of a podcast.

Brad Shreve [00:14:05]:
But this is about the podcast, and it's very important. Okay. Listener, whatever app you're listening on, whether it's on the computer or on the phone, reach your finger or your mouse over. It usually says follow, some still say subscribe, and click that. And what's gonna happen when they do that, Tony?

Tony Maietta [00:14:21]:
They're gonna get notified when a new episode is available, and they can listen to us again. You know, you don't wanna miss that. No. Can we get back to the episode that we were recording?

Brad Shreve [00:14:31]:
Of course. Please? Of course.

Tony Maietta [00:14:32]:
Alright. Thank you. Don't forget to subscribe and follow.

Brad Shreve [00:14:35]:
There you go. I do wanna make one more mention of Web Price Hollywood before we move on.

Tony Maietta [00:14:41]:
Oh, yeah. Sure. Of course.

Brad Shreve [00:14:43]:
In 1937, RKO Pictures considered a lawsuit against Selznick and MGM because they plagiarized the story.

Tony Maietta [00:14:51]:
Right.

Brad Shreve [00:14:51]:
And they backed down because they thought there were enough differences that they would lose. Right. I don't know if they would. I mean, there are definitely differences, but, yeah, come on. It's the same damn story.

Tony Maietta [00:15:00]:
Well, it's the yeah. The the thrust is the same. I mean, the the bones of it are the same.

Brad Shreve [00:15:05]:
But RKO Pictures was pretty small at that time, so they probably didn't have the money.

Tony Maietta [00:15:08]:
Well, Selznick was pretty small too. I mean, he wasn't somebody you know what I'm saying? True. But it's interesting because Selznick's the one who who started it. Mhmm. And then, you know, they're gonna he left RKO to form Selznick International Pictures. So his former company is coming back and saying, we're suing you for this story which you Brad originally brought to us. This so the 37, again, picks up the basic bones of what Price Hollywood and streamlines it and makes it a little, it puts in the basic tenants of the star is born plot that we know. There's for instance, there's always a scene in a sanitarium.

Tony Maietta [00:15:47]:
Mhmm. There's always a moment. Well, I don't think there is in the I take that back. There's not one in the Streisand version. He doesn't go to rehab, which really surprises me because he needed to go to rehab. Oh god. He needs rehab from the first minute. But there's usually a scene which is actually inspired by a real life scene.

Tony Maietta [00:16:07]:
So George Cukor was the original director of What Price Hollywood. He directed What Price Hollywood, and he was very close with David Oselcnik. And he told a story of visiting John Barrymore at a sanatorium when he was drying out. And that story, very much inspired the scene in A Star is Born where Norman Maine's in the sanatorium drying out. So there's that scene, which is pretty much a staple of it. There's always these staple scenes, and they all began with the 1937, Star is Born.

Brad Shreve [00:16:37]:
One interesting thing about George Cukor, he directed Wet Price Hollywood, and he was asked to direct the 1937 A Star Is Born, and he declined because he said they were too similar. But then he turned around. He did the 54 version, which is very funny.

Tony Maietta [00:16:52]:
Yeah. But the 50 well, we'll get to the 54.

Brad Shreve [00:16:54]:
What was your opinion of this movie?

Tony Maietta [00:16:56]:
37? Mhmm. You know, I'm not I'm I'm not crazy about it. It's funny because when you come to it the first one I ever saw was Judy's, was the 54 version. So it's really hard to see any other version and have a have a warm reaction to it. I think that it's it's a great movie of its time. Mhmm. I like the fact that we get these benchmarks in the plot of A Star is Born such as, one more look at you, and such as, this is missus Norman Maine. I love that.

Tony Maietta [00:17:25]:
I'm not crazy about Janet Gaynor. I'm much more impressed with Fredric March in this.

Brad Shreve [00:17:32]:
Oh, I'm the opposite.

Tony Maietta [00:17:33]:
Really? You like Jenna Gainer better?

Brad Shreve [00:17:35]:
I'm I just I hated Fredric March in this. I thought he was a horrible actor. Oh. And he'd his drunk he does not know playing a drunk is not easy.

Tony Maietta [00:17:44]:
He plays a drunk he but he's played a drunk a lot in his career, so I don't I don't know about that.

Brad Shreve [00:17:48]:
He failed miserably as he just looked like a confused man. And I'll tell you what really highlighted it was the scene at the at the courtroom

Tony Maietta [00:17:57]:
Mhmm.

Brad Shreve [00:17:57]:
When he and the other drunks are taken there before the judge.

Tony Maietta [00:18:01]:
Mhmm.

Brad Shreve [00:18:01]:
The other guys played drunks really well. Yeah. And he just looked ridiculous. He he just didn't fit the mold. I I didn't like his character at all. I didn't I Well, we're gonna have to My feeling on this movie is it's bland. It's not bad. It's not good.

Brad Shreve [00:18:18]:
Mhmm. It's meh. Movies should never be meh, so it's really bad.

Tony Maietta [00:18:22]:
I think that, we'll have to disagree agree to disagree about Fredrick Marsh.

Brad Shreve [00:18:26]:
Well, I we have more to come.

Tony Maietta [00:18:28]:
I've seen a lot of Fredrick Marsh drunk movies, and this is actually one of his better ones. And I I go back and forth about Fredrick March. He he does some wonderful performances. He's wonderful in the royal family of Broadway, which he does a take on John Barrymore, and it's hysterical. It's a really, really early talkie and hard to sit through, but he's wonderful in it, and he's very handsome in it. Here's the my main problem with the star is born and it's the 37 star is born, which was rectified in 54, is we don't see anything in Vicki, Esther, which makes us believe she's can be a movie star. There's no there's nothing about her that goes, oh my god.

Brad Shreve [00:19:05]:
Hell, yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:19:06]:
This woman is going to be the I mean, they make such a fuss over after she's become a star. You know, she gets the standing ovation when she wins the Oscar. And you're like, but you haven't shown me what what she can do except for that one scene in the preview. You know? I'm supposed to just take their word for it. And it yeah. And so that's why so to me, that's a huge that's a huge thing because I wanna know why. What was it that Norman Maine saw in her? These ridiculous impressions she did at this party, that's not enough to make somebody believe in you. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:19:36]:
So that is a plot hole, I think, in this one, which I really don't appreciate.

Brad Shreve [00:19:41]:
And that is something I didn't like about it. I didn't see that there was I didn't feel any connection between them. None. I I I saw no reason for these 2 to get together.

Tony Maietta [00:19:50]:
You know, it was it was rectified in 54, and and so and it needed to be.

Brad Shreve [00:19:54]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:19:54]:
We need to see what Vicki has, which makes her the star that is going to be born.

Brad Shreve [00:20:01]:
And one important thing to note about this movie, this movie was all about acting Yeah. Where the last two movies were about music.

Tony Maietta [00:20:08]:
The last 3.

Brad Shreve [00:20:09]:
Judy was kind of the in between. Judy's the 1954 version was about musicals.

Tony Maietta [00:20:14]:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:20:14]:
So this was acting, and then Judy was the 54 version was kind of a transition into the other 2 that were about just singer. So this was strictly acting.

Tony Maietta [00:20:23]:
Well, I have a theory. I have a theory.

Brad Shreve [00:20:24]:
Oh, get off.

Tony Maietta [00:20:25]:
I have a theory about that about that that reason, and I was actually talking about that after we watched it last night. I was like, wouldn't it be interesting because I watched the Bradley Cooper again last night Yeah. Which is about music.

Brad Shreve [00:20:35]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:20:35]:
And because you have Lady Gaga too. You're gonna yeah. But I'm like, wouldn't it be interesting if they did it again about film? And I don't think they can because there's no studio system anymore.

Brad Shreve [00:20:45]:
Ah, very true.

Tony Maietta [00:20:46]:
You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, the thing about A Star is Born is is she gets a contract. In this one. She gets a she gets a 7 year contract, and she's going nowhere in the 7 year contract until Norman Reign sees her again at the studio commissary and realizes, oh my god. You're perfect

Brad Shreve [00:21:02]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:21:02]:
For this to play opposite me in this film that we can't find the right actress for. You know? I'm like, it took you that long to do that. I mean, hello. Since there's no longer a studio, a 7 year contract, a studio system, it's really hard to see. You know what I mean? She'd have to have a job immediately in a movie that was a huge hit, but then how would the progression happen? It's not like there's no more contract players. There's no more studio system for 1 to rise up and then one to fall and be fired. And so music makes more sense, plus music is more immediate. I mean, we live in an American Idol world.

Tony Maietta [00:21:39]:
You know?

Brad Shreve [00:21:39]:
I mean, celebrities still crash and burn, but it's messier because it can't just say, oh, their contract was canceled.

Tony Maietta [00:21:44]:
It's why it's funny they call it a Hollywood story because you're right. It's all music. But music is much more that a talented musician is much more tangible than a talented actor. Mhmm. You know what I mean? Somebody blows the roof off a song, you can point to it and say, oh my god. That person is incredible. But with a film performance, I mean, you you throw up Meryl Streep and Sophie's Choice and go, okay. That's but you know what I mean? It's less tangible.

Brad Shreve [00:22:08]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:22:08]:
So I think that's why it works better in music now and why it has been. Plus, you also have these musical stars. You have Judy Garland. You have Barbra Streisand. You have Lady Gaga. You know, all great actresses, but their primary meat potatoes is their voice, their star. And it's something you can immediately point to and say, that's a star. Look at that performance.

Tony Maietta [00:22:28]:
You know what I mean?

Brad Shreve [00:22:30]:
Yeah. There's something I wanna say about the 1937 version. Yeah. Because it's 1937, it was quaint. It opens up where, Janet Gaynor's character, Esther, is living in at the farmhouse with her family, and her mother's upset because she's watching too many movies. And

Tony Maietta [00:22:45]:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:22:45]:
And her grandmother, of course, is, like, stereotypical. The grandmother is the one that wants her to to move forward. But grandma is talking about, you know, how her and her husband.

Tony Maietta [00:22:54]:
Pioneers.

Brad Shreve [00:22:55]:
Went for it and moved west, and, of course, they were he was killed by those horrible engines. And it's like it's 19 days. So they had to get that in there, of course.

Tony Maietta [00:23:03]:
It's just amazing to think how close we were to the frontier times that that was actually a plot point.

Brad Shreve [00:23:08]:
Exactly.

Tony Maietta [00:23:08]:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:23:09]:
And then at the end, we don't hear from her family in any way whatsoever

Tony Maietta [00:23:13]:
Until Norma dies.

Brad Shreve [00:23:14]:
Till at the very end when she's ready to give up her career

Tony Maietta [00:23:17]:
And here comes the grandmother.

Brad Shreve [00:23:19]:
Grandma marches into the mansion and says, you cannot.

Tony Maietta [00:23:24]:
It's the grandmother ex machina. You know? It's like, they used to say it's machina. Here comes the grandmother to save the day. Now that was what I was gonna talk about. I was gonna talk about I and May Robeson, the great actress May Robeson, who was a wonderful actress in the thirties, an older actress, clearly. She was playing a grandmother. She was in Lady for a Day with Frank Capra. She's the original Appalante.

Tony Maietta [00:23:43]:
She's she's a hoot. She's a great character actress. But, yeah, it's it just it illustrates how antiquated this idea is. Not only idea of Hollywood, you know, you go out to your Hollywood, like, I cross the frontier, and you make your dreams come true. And thank God. I mean, I'm glad we got rid of that trope. I'm glad we got rid of, you know, the the the woman at the farm, but that's what the idea of Hollywood was. You know?

Brad Shreve [00:24:08]:
And what was kinda disturbing to me is before she leaves the farm, grandmother tells her, you're gonna have to give things up, but that that's what you do when you pursue your

Tony Maietta [00:24:17]:
dreams. Sacrifice.

Brad Shreve [00:24:18]:
So at the end, after her husband killed himself, she basically said, I told you, you have to take a loss with what you get. And I'm like, that's cruel.

Tony Maietta [00:24:27]:
Well, also, the so the money she gave her was the money she was saving for her funeral. So that just kinda gives you the idea of I mean, you know, it's just it's so we laugh at it now because it seems so quaint and so antiquated, and it is compared you know, it was almost a 100 years ago.

Brad Shreve [00:24:42]:
Dustin in this movie is struggling for a while in a boarding house and and grandma is sending her money to

Tony Maietta [00:24:46]:
Yeah. It's it's funny and that's just that that's the way it was. And here's what I find fascinating too, and I've I've read a little bit a little bit about this, is when they obviously, when the Judy Garland version came up, when the 54 version came up, Esther has no family. Mhmm. She's pretty much an orphan. I mean, they jettison the grandmother of the mother. Esther is there's just so much to say about it. Do we wanna say anything more about 37?

Brad Shreve [00:25:11]:
I think we're done with 37, but I was gonna say, I don't think we see a family again until, Gaga.

Tony Maietta [00:25:15]:
Yeah. You don't. You don't. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You don't.

Brad Shreve [00:25:17]:
Okay.

Tony Maietta [00:25:18]:
And I think there's a reason for that. 37 was a hit, a big hit. Gotta love it. Academy Award nominations. Your beloved 1954. So So 1954 comes along, and I'm not gonna go too deeply into the whole history with Judy. And Judy had done a radio version of A Star Is Born in the forties, and she always wanted to play the role. But there was no way MGM was gonna let her play the wife of an alcoholic, particularly as her reputation began to suffer in Hollywood and and, you know, there's so much to

Brad Shreve [00:25:48]:
say about 54. She was Norman Maine.

Tony Maietta [00:25:52]:
Well, it's she's Norman and she's and she's Ester Bloss.

Brad Shreve [00:25:55]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:25:55]:
She's both.

Brad Shreve [00:25:56]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:25:56]:
It's very meta. It's very meta. And and so when when Jodie made her comeback after she got fired from MGM and she made her comeback at the palace, she made it first at the Palladium and then the palace, and they were looking for a movie would have cemented the deal, so A Star is Born was a natural fit. So they put together this incredible company of people. I mean, Moss Hart of Kaufman and Hart of, you know, you can't take it with you, wrote the screenplay. Harold Arlen and Ira Gershwin. You know, George Gershwin's brother, Ira Gershwin, who he wrote Porgy and West with, and Harold Arlen, who wrote Over the Rainbow, did the music. And George Cukor, because he wanted to direct Garland, agreed to come back and actually direct this a star is born.

Tony Maietta [00:26:41]:
So you have this incredible team of support for her here to to do this. And, yes, obviously, you're gonna make it a musical because it's Judy and because Judy has to sing. Otherwise, you know, that's the point. But what I find so amazing about is what they do with the characters is Esther really is on her own here. She doesn't have a background. She's just this performing entity that comes upon Norman Maine. That That

Brad Shreve [00:27:09]:
is one thing that I like that's interesting about it is because Esther isn't just

Tony Maietta [00:27:13]:
No. I do too.

Brad Shreve [00:27:14]:
She's not just walking into Hollywood. She she already has a career. She is a singer. She's not doing too shabby. I mean, she's not a star, but she's opening for Tommy Dorsey at the Coconut Shreve, so they obviously are pretty good.

Tony Maietta [00:27:25]:
Well, Glenn Williams, but still Oh. She doesn't you know, that's her goal. She's already met her goal. She says someday she'll have a hit record on the in the hit parade, and Norman says to her, there's only anything wrong with that. And she goes, I know it won't happen. And he says, no. A dream's not big enough. You know? And so she's not she's the most unambitious of all the Esthers Mhmm.

Tony Maietta [00:27:45]:
Doing just fine. She she just wants to keep singing, you know, which is which is kinda wonderful. So it kind of goes in with this no name. I mean, the name Esther Blodgett, of course, is such a generic ridiculous name, but it kinda goes with this no identity persona that they've created for her to be this performing entity. She's just there to sing. She's she's her talent. She doesn't need a background. She's her talent.

Brad Shreve [00:28:09]:
I like that she really is kinda happy with life at the beginning. She's in this band. She's she's a singer. She's friends with the band members. She seems content in her life.

Tony Maietta [00:28:18]:
Yeah. It was a really smart choice.

Brad Shreve [00:28:19]:
And he convinces her, you need more.

Tony Maietta [00:28:22]:
She doesn't need the baggage of a grandmother, a father, a mother, a past. We don't need to know her past. Mhmm. Her purpose is not her past. Her purpose is, as I said, this musical entity kind of dropped down from the heavens put in front of Norman Maine, who then takes her on this ride. Yeah. You know? And I think so I think that's a really interesting change, and I think it's a really smart change. Mhmm.

Tony Maietta [00:28:42]:
I also think another very smart change that they make with, with this version of A Star is Born is, as I said before, is Norman witnessing her talent. Mhmm. We see what he sees when she sings the man that got away. And when we see that, we see, oh, when he says you're a great singer, we believe we've just seen it, so we know it. So it makes sense that she becomes this huge star because we've just seen it. We don't see that in the other one, the, the previous 2. And I think that's a very important thing they put in there. And we see it in the Shreve the subsequent ones as well.

Brad Shreve [00:29:17]:
And another important change that they made is James Mason. Because unlike the first two movies where the love interest, you're like, what does she see in this guy? There's no connection. It just happens. James Mason is charming.

Tony Maietta [00:29:30]:
He is charming.

Brad Shreve [00:29:31]:
He's a drunk, but he's charming. Swooms her, and you can see why

Tony Maietta [00:29:35]:
She clearly is yes. She's clearly en enamored by him, but I'm gonna disagree with you a little bit here because I do not find a sexual chemistry at all between Garland and Mason. In fact, that's one of the reasons one of the things I have about I don't I don't get it. I don't get the connection. Their original choice, Judy and Sid left who her husband who produced a star is born, wanted Cary Grant, the ultimate Norman Maine. And they wined and dined Cary Grant for months months, and he would say yes, no, yes, no. And finally, he said no. Could be for a number of reasons.

Tony Maietta [00:30:10]:
I'd Judy's reputation at this point was not great, so he might have he heard the horror stories. He might not have wanted to go through that with her. Working with her was tough.

Brad Shreve [00:30:20]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:30:20]:
And I think he wanted a little more money than than Warner Brothers wanted to pay. So they they got James Mason.

Brad Shreve [00:30:27]:
And I'm not gonna disagree with you. I didn't see a huge connection as far as chemistry between Mason and Garland. I agree with you actually now that you mentioned it.

Tony Maietta [00:30:35]:
Right.

Brad Shreve [00:30:35]:
But his character at least was written that way.

Tony Maietta [00:30:38]:
Yes. But you see the love, that's the key. Mhmm. It's the love. There may not be this overheated sexual chemistry, but the love I mean, you feel that love that she has such love for him. I mean, she loves him so much in this. You can see that emotion. I mean, it's Judy Garland.

Tony Maietta [00:30:55]:
There's always gonna be emotion. There's a real emotional tug. But here's another thing too that's just kind of interesting, and if you notice and just about Judy's Ester Blodgett, she can be very androgynous. I mean, when you think about the first time we see her, she's in a man's tuxedo, a modified man's tuxedo. Yeah. She does Suwanee in the top hat, in the the pants. She does lose that long face, one of the famous cut numbers, which was rediscovered and put in the restoration, is a street urchin. So there's a there's a her hair is very short and very you know, it was the style at that particular time, but so there's a there's an androgynous quality to Judy in A Star is Born, which makes her almost every person, you know, which is another brilliant thing, which is also comes in line with, I'm getting so deep in the weeds here, which comes so deep in line with her not having a background.

Tony Maietta [00:31:48]:
She not only doesn't have a background and and anything specific to point to. She's every person. She's man. She's woman. She's child. And you really get that from her in a star is born, and you get that incredible love between them. And, also, another reason why I think it's very interesting, because because he gives her this opportunity to become a star. He he puts himself out there, and she gets this part.

Tony Maietta [00:32:13]:
She becomes a star. She's therefore indebted to him. You know? You don't get that sense of, of her being indebted to him in the 37 version. You know what I mean? They're just kinda there there's no drama to their relationship where, like, there is with Mason in Garland. There's such heft to their relationship. You know? There's such Yeah. It's just so deep, and I and that I think that just moves me so much.

Brad Shreve [00:32:38]:
The movies are almost identical in so many ways, but so very different.

Tony Maietta [00:32:42]:
So many ways, but in really in really important ways, they're different. Mhmm. And they get a character development and also in the performances. I mean, I'm not gonna go into it because this isn't about, you know, who should have won the Oscar or all that stuff. We know that she should have won, and we're gonna leave it at that. But, you know, she does give Time Magazine said, you know, the greatest a one woman performance in modern movie history. And I I don't know. I defy anybody to watch Judy in that movie and not agree.

Tony Maietta [00:33:15]:
I mean, it's an astounding performance, and I'm not gonna go into all the drama about the overages and all the cuts and everything. There's so many wonderful books you can read about it. Ron Haver, who did the reconstruction in 1983, wrote a fabulous book called A Star is Born. So if you wanna hear all about the cuts and how they destroyed the movie before it was reconstructed, you can do that. Just her performance alone, even in the cut version, I remember seeing the cut version, before the restored version, and it blew me away too. So, if that performance is just it's for the ages. You can't touch it. You You just can't touch it.

Brad Shreve [00:33:49]:
So let me say what I have to say, and you have to promise not to hurt me. I didn't like this movie, but I thought she did great. If this movie had stayed about a woman who made musicals, I would have been fine with it. What drove me crazy was it was like glee. There were times like, sing me a song, and she'd break into song for no reason whatsoever. Mhmm. And I never liked any of those routines. I didn't like any of them.

Tony Maietta [00:34:17]:
You didn't like, someone at last when she does a little performance for him.

Brad Shreve [00:34:21]:
Is that in the living room? Yeah. Yeah. No. I hated that. Absolutely hated that scene.

Tony Maietta [00:34:25]:
To cheer him up.

Brad Shreve [00:34:26]:
I didn't find any of those routines interesting at all, and it didn't seem real to me. Mhmm. So that's what I disliked about it. If you chopped up all that, I would say this movie is outstanding.

Tony Maietta [00:34:37]:
Then you you'd be a fun you'd be a fan of the cut version.

Brad Shreve [00:34:41]:
Yeah. The version I saw had the still pictures in it. It was restored.

Tony Maietta [00:34:45]:
That's the restored version. Yeah. Okay.

Brad Shreve [00:34:46]:
It was restored. What happened is that they only were able to restore some of the audio. So Mhmm. Parts of the movie you're watching are still, and you're listening. And I guess a large part of those that I thought I could see why they cut that. Mhmm. For instance, when he tells her, I'm bringing to Hollywood and then he gets sent away on the

Tony Maietta [00:35:04]:
Right. Right.

Brad Shreve [00:35:05]:
You know, she dropped the band and ends up having it what's she doing? Waiting tables or something?

Tony Maietta [00:35:09]:
She waits tables, and she does commercials. Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:35:12]:
Until he returns. That really went unnecessary with

Tony Maietta [00:35:14]:
Well but no. But it is necessary because it shows the struggle. There's a depiction of of the struggle, the essence of the struggle, and the achievement. Had he said, I'm gonna make you a star and then show up the next day and here's your screen test, you don't get the struggle. The point of those scenes that were cut and that are put back in in the restoration is you show, okay, she's just been abandoned, but she's not giving up. She even says, he showed me a side of myself I've never seen before and he made me believe it too. So she suddenly realizes she does want more because of what she's going through, and then he does show up and, you know, he gets off the movie set.

Brad Shreve [00:35:50]:
Very good point. Very good point. And I would buy it if after he went away and she struggled if she struggled on her own. But again, he comes back and basically helps her career.

Tony Maietta [00:36:01]:
Oh, and makes it on her own, you mean?

Brad Shreve [00:36:02]:
Yeah. If she makes it on her own.

Tony Maietta [00:36:04]:
That's be well, he basically comes back because then that's when the love story kicks in.

Brad Shreve [00:36:09]:
Well, I know.

Tony Maietta [00:36:10]:
I know. I mean, I I see what you're saying. See, to me, the scenes that were cut and this is all speculation because the scenes no longer exist. What happened was Ron Hafer found the original soundtrack. He had the soundtrack, but he didn't have the actual scenes. And so they had to use stills. And this was the first one of the very first times they ever did that. And they do they've done it a couple times since then, just to give you the idea.

Tony Maietta [00:36:32]:
But what it did was it cut out parts of their for I feel, some of their character motivations and some of the, as I said, the essence of struggle that Hollywood is because it just seems so easy without that. It seems so easy. Like, oh, he says, you're gonna be a star just like the other version. You're gonna be a star, and then I'll I'll and then the next day, she's got her screen test. The next day, she's, you know, she's a star. Yeah. I mean, that's the way I feel about that. You know?

Brad Shreve [00:37:01]:
I wanna go back to, the first movie Mhmm. In Price Hollywood, just to talk about the death of the character that's basically crashing and burning. In that movie, it was the director. He was not the love interest.

Tony Maietta [00:37:12]:
Right.

Brad Shreve [00:37:12]:
He shot himself in the stomach, and he died. And then she went to her husband. So that kind of was a totally different ending there.

Tony Maietta [00:37:18]:
Which is a great scene, by the way, the way they do the flash where he flash flashes his life back.

Brad Shreve [00:37:23]:
Oh my god. It was great.

Tony Maietta [00:37:25]:
Wasn't that wonderful?

Brad Shreve [00:37:25]:
I looked at Maurice, my husband, and I said, that was 1932, and that was brilliant.

Tony Maietta [00:37:30]:
With the sound, there was that great sound, and then suddenly his life is flashing back in front of his eyes and these shots and he falls over. Yeah. And so that's that's a Yeah. It's a fantastic

Brad Shreve [00:37:38]:
It was gut wrenchy.

Tony Maietta [00:37:39]:
Probably the best

Brad Shreve [00:37:40]:
I was like, wow.

Tony Maietta [00:37:41]:
The best death scene out of all of them.

Brad Shreve [00:37:43]:
I forgot about that, but I was, like, really wowed by that.

Tony Maietta [00:37:46]:
He walks into the ocean.

Brad Shreve [00:37:47]:
So then in the 1937 version, he drowns himself. Mhmm. You know, when he realizes that her she gives up her career to help him stay sober, and and hearing that, he decides to drown himself so that her she can continue with her career.

Tony Maietta [00:38:00]:
It's a sacrifice.

Brad Shreve [00:38:01]:
Yeah. He sacrifices himself. And that's where we end where she says, hello, everybody. This is Mrs. Norman Maine. And the 1954 version is identical in that sense. Even the words, hello, everybody. This is Mrs.

Brad Shreve [00:38:14]:
Norman.

Tony Maietta [00:38:15]:
This is missus well, yeah, it's a hallmark of the movie, the this is missus Norman Maine.

Brad Shreve [00:38:18]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:38:19]:
Yes. No. I love that. I what I love about the the 37 version and the 54 version is you realize he's killing himself to save her. Yeah. Because in both films and in the Gaga film, by the way, there is a scene where he either overhears or he's actually in the Gaga version. He's told outright, you're destroying her. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:38:44]:
You know, you're no good for her. She cannot continue with you. So you see he is actually sacrificing himself for her, which makes it all the more devastating. The first two Norman Mains walk into the ocean. James Mason walks into the ocean as Judy singing it's a new world in the background. In the Gaga version, obviously, Bradley Cooper hangs himself while Ali's singing on stage, shallow, which is their song as well. It's their it's a new world. So you get the real sense of the sacrifice, and that's why the this is missus Norman Maine is so important because what she's saying is is this man existed.

Tony Maietta [00:39:22]:
Yeah. I am here because of this man. Yeah. You know? And he gave up for me. Again, sacrifice. It's a story of sacrifice.

Brad Shreve [00:39:30]:
I've read complaints about that that she's given him all the credit in making it about Maine instead of herself.

Tony Maietta [00:39:36]:
No. She's acknowledging this I disagree. Yeah. She's acknowledging the her debt to him. Yeah. What's wrong with that? You know? It's it's incredible. When we get in

Brad Shreve [00:39:46]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:39:47]:
You know? I I find it so moving, and she's not yeah. It's just crazy. Now, of course, when Streisand did it are you ready to jump into 1975, 76?

Brad Shreve [00:39:59]:
Let's move to Streisand.

Tony Maietta [00:40:01]:
Streisand couldn't say this is missus John Norman Howard, of course, because she's Barbara Streisand. She had to say Esther Hoffman Howard, so she added his name to hers. Yes. However, this is this is a hard one for me because, you know, I love Streisand. I'm I'm a card carrying gay Streisand fanatic, but I have a lot of problems with this movie always. And then I I rewatched it again for the first time. It was always the one you know, whenever I would talk about Stryson's films, I would always be Funny Girl in The Way We Were and Prince of Tides. I always skipped over Star Is Born because it's just like, oh, Star is Born.

Tony Maietta [00:40:36]:
She smokes pot in The Star is Born. She swears in the star. You know what I mean? She does.

Brad Shreve [00:40:41]:
I was very seventies.

Tony Maietta [00:40:43]:
I was so anti stars because it's her John Peters period. And, you know, Streisand fanatics don't always like the John Peters period with the crazy hair and all that stuff. But watching it again, it's not that bad. I gotta tell you. I was I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked it when I saw it after years years years. What do you think?

Brad Shreve [00:41:04]:
I have a confession to make. I didn't fulfill my obligation.

Tony Maietta [00:41:08]:
You didn't watch it?

Brad Shreve [00:41:09]:
I had to stop it at the 53 minute mark. I couldn't take another I tried, and I just couldn't take another minute. I just couldn't the music was unbearable. The acting was unbearable. It was just awful.

Tony Maietta [00:41:22]:
Wow. You really don't like it.

Brad Shreve [00:41:23]:
Oh, it was awful, awful, awful. Just oh, I I

Tony Maietta [00:41:28]:
I think that, well, I think that that's a certainly a valid point.

Brad Shreve [00:41:31]:
I'm gonna compare this to the most recent version with Mhmm. Bradley Cooper in Lady Gaga. Give a reason why I didn't like this film. 30 minutes into the film, we have no story whatsoever. We have been shown repeatedly that John Howard John Norman Howard, the Kris Kristofferson's character, He's a drunk and a drug addict who acts erratically, destroys his concerts. It's it's like beat into our heads for almost 30 minutes, except for the scene where he goes to her house and they have pizza for breakfast.

Tony Maietta [00:42:05]:
Right.

Brad Shreve [00:42:05]:
Which I have issues. Well, first of all, let's say, in addition to reaching stardom, these have all been rags to riches stories. So when he shows up at her house and she has this beautiful 2 story apartment in Hollywood, I'm

Tony Maietta [00:42:15]:
a little I'm like Which, by the way, is

Brad Shreve [00:42:17]:
right around the corner from me. I know. I thought of you.

Tony Maietta [00:42:20]:
You can see the magic castle in the background. Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:42:22]:
Yeah. I thought of you when I saw that.

Tony Maietta [00:42:24]:
Yeah. Those are fabulous apartments, by the way.

Brad Shreve [00:42:27]:
I'm like, that's just bizarre. So it took 30 minutes to get there. So nothing is even happening. That compared to I sat there and I timed the 2018 version. Mhmm. Within 3 minutes, we knew who Jack Maine was. Jackson Maine.

Tony Maietta [00:42:44]:
Jackson Maine.

Brad Shreve [00:42:45]:
We knew he was a big star who clearly had an addiction problem. Mhmm. We didn't have to watch this. First of all, Bradley Cooper's a a much better singer than Kristoff's is a good country singer. He was a terrible rock singer. So he did not work in that movie to me. Bradley Cooper sang well, but they didn't even make us sit through a whole concert. We only watched enough of it to understand he's trying to do a concert, and he's not doing well because he's drunk.

Brad Shreve [00:43:09]:
Yeah. Within 5 minutes, we then were introduced to Lady Gaga. We see that she's waiting tables and is doing music at a dive bar. So within 5 minutes, we learned who these people we didn't know them personally, but we learned who these people were and we knew what the direction we were going. We had not reached that point in 30 minutes of the Streisand version.

Tony Maietta [00:43:33]:
Well, I think it took a little little bit longer than 5 minutes in the GOG average.

Brad Shreve [00:43:36]:
No. I timed it. I timed it.

Tony Maietta [00:43:38]:
Did you really?

Brad Shreve [00:43:39]:
Yes. Because I went back and timed it because I'm like, this is so different.

Tony Maietta [00:43:43]:
Here's probably something that you didn't you didn't know that John Peters produced both of them. John Peters Purdue was a producer on the Lady Gaga version. So that's kind of interesting because John Peters obviously is the force behind the Streisand version because Streisand was dating him at the time. He wanted to be a producer. So this is what's this is the thing about the Streisand version that bugged me immediately besides her hair.

Brad Shreve [00:44:05]:
Oh god. Yes.

Tony Maietta [00:44:08]:
The thing about and this was a lot of credit this was criticism contemporary criticism of the film. I mean, the critics hated this film. Streisand had never gotten the reviews from critics that she got for A Star is Born. They've always loved her. They always loved her. She was devastated by these reviews. But the movie was a huge, huge hit, so she didn't care about it. Oh, yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:44:30]:
Huge financial hit.

Brad Shreve [00:44:30]:
I think it was number 2 that year.

Tony Maietta [00:44:32]:
But there's no way this Esther, now Esther Hoffman because nobody would buy Esther Blodgett in 1975. Yeah. And this character of Esther Hoffman from the moment we first see her is way too self assured and much, much too secure to still be unknown at this point in her life. She's just way she's not a there's no way she's a naive wife. And Streisand doesn't play her like a naive wife. You know, she has a little bit of a backstory. She was married before, and so maybe she put her career on hold for a bit. But here's what's really interesting.

Tony Maietta [00:45:03]:
So that's a criticism of it. There's no way this Esther would be undiscovered and unacknowledged at this point in her life in their career with this voice. Streisand originally had the idea of switching the genders so that she would be the star at the beginning, and a young man would be the up and comer. Now I think that's fascinating because I totally buy Streisand is an already established star. Mhmm. And maybe not with the drugs, though, so that's probably why they put the kibosh on that because she's not gonna do the drugs. Yeah. But Streisand is the confident, already established star in somebody coming up, you know, as her stars fall.

Tony Maietta [00:45:42]:
I thought that was such a fascinating idea, but they didn't do it that way. For obvious reasons, they went back to the original template. And, of course, I know you don't like Kris Kristofferson, but, you know, for a long time, they even met with Elvis Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:45:55]:
I heard that.

Tony Maietta [00:45:55]:
About doing the John Norman part, but he was just too far gone. And it would have thrown the balance off way too much. I couldn't you know, that would have been crazy. It would have been an amazing idea, but I think dramatically it wouldn't have worked. But, yeah, I I I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying about it. And you know what I think is interesting about the Gaga one? Is that if you notice in the bar, it's Gaga who punches that guy. It's not Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:46:19]:
Bradley Cooper's character, which is in a great twist. I love that. Isn't that fantastic? I love I love that they did that because they showed this is not this is not a shy and innocent Esther either. Even her name is not Esther anymore. But about the Streisand thing is it's interesting you like for me, the only saving grace of the Streisand thing is the music. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of Evergreen.

Brad Shreve [00:46:40]:
I thought it was awful. And I

Tony Maietta [00:46:41]:
Even even Evergreen, it won the Oscar.

Brad Shreve [00:46:43]:
I don't think I listened that far. I know the song Evergreen. I do like it. I do like it. Yeah. I heard a critique that one of the reasons why this movie failed was because nobody can buy Barbra Streisand as an up and coming star, and I disagree. Barbra Streisand's a good actress, and a good actor could pull that off. So I don't buy that as the reason.

Tony Maietta [00:47:02]:
I don't know if she could at this point in her career, though.

Brad Shreve [00:47:04]:
I love Barbra Streisand. I love her, and I love her singing.

Tony Maietta [00:47:08]:
I I do too. I'm but let me tell you something. Even when she was starting out as Barbra Streisand, she it took her, like, a year to get her 1st Broadway show. I mean, it happened that fast for her. So the idea because no one's gonna deny this talent. When she opens her mouth, they're like, come with me. Her her own fame is when she started singing, not as an actress because she couldn't get a job as an actress. Once she started singing, she immediately started the rise.

Tony Maietta [00:47:36]:
It was so fast. And within, you know, within 3 years, she had her first Broadway show or her no. She within 2 years, she had her first Broadway show.

Brad Shreve [00:47:43]:
Her singing is incredible.

Tony Maietta [00:47:45]:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:47:45]:
None of the songs in this movie, I thought, complimented her voice. So No. I would I thought she sounded terrible.

Tony Maietta [00:47:51]:
I would agree with you because it's not her style.

Brad Shreve [00:47:53]:
I thought she sounded terrible. Anybody that doesn't think she can act needs to watch what's up, doc. She is a great actress. We have to

Tony Maietta [00:48:00]:
talk about what's up, doc.

Brad Shreve [00:48:02]:
We are gonna do a show about What's Up, Doc.

Tony Maietta [00:48:05]:
We're gonna do a show about What's Up, Doc, people.

Brad Shreve [00:48:07]:
Yes. It's coming.

Tony Maietta [00:48:08]:
And and we'll do Bringing Up Baby in What's Up, Doc, but that's not we'll keep going.

Brad Shreve [00:48:11]:
A good idea. The thing with it is I think Chris Kristofferson's a good singer. I think Streisand's a good singer. Neither of them sing songs that complimented their voices.

Tony Maietta [00:48:19]:
No. You're that's funny you mentioned that. Yeah. You're right.

Brad Shreve [00:48:22]:
And as far as the attraction, Kris Kristofferson was so far gone as an addict the very beginning of this movie. He had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And she just kept looking at him in disgust. And the next thing you know, he carries her into bed, and there's this love scene where it looked like they were about to tongue. And I'm no prude, but I was like, back the camera up a little bit here. Yeah. I just didn't buy any of it. I mean, it mean me I hated him from the beginning.

Brad Shreve [00:48:56]:
And the fact that she then became attracted to this Yeah. Loser in every way, shape, or form made me dislike her.

Tony Maietta [00:49:04]:
I don't I don't hate Chris Iverson in it. I don't think he's strong enough for her. She needs a very strong leading man. That's just the truth with Barbra Streisand, especially when she's playing romantic. She needs someone who can match her. I don't think he can match her. I think he's good in the musical sequences, but you're right. It's not his forte, and it's not her forte.

Tony Maietta [00:49:26]:
I mean, I think that's why so many I I was so resistant to A Star Is Born for so long because I don't, because Barbara can't rock out. She just can't. When she tries to rock out, it's funny and not in a good way.

Brad Shreve [00:49:38]:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:49:38]:
So when she does get the opportunity to sing a ballad like Evergreen, which is beautiful, she sings a song called Lost Inside of You, which is also a beautiful song. And the last song with One More Look At You is beautiful, because that's what she does best. But when she starts to rock out in some of the stuff, you're just like, oh, come on, Barbara. This doesn't this doesn't work.

Brad Shreve [00:50:01]:
It didn't work. None none of the songs worked for her.

Tony Maietta [00:50:03]:
You it the head bops and the back yeah. Yeah. Barbara, you're not a rocker. Go watch The Rose. Watch Bette Midler in The Rose, and that's exactly what, you know I mean, come on, Barb.

Brad Shreve [00:50:14]:
It was so fake. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [00:50:16]:
It was strained. It was strained. There's just a lot of things that are there are a lot of issues I have with the film. Yeah. And I hate to say it, but it is it's a vanity production

Brad Shreve [00:50:27]:
Totally.

Tony Maietta [00:50:27]:
For her. I mean, she was the producer. She she denies it to, you know, to this day. She had her battles with Frank Pearson, who was the quote, unquote director are legendary. He wrote a scathing article about working with her right before the film premiered. And she was, you know, she was devastated. This was hard for her. This was really the first time she was ever criticized the way she was.

Tony Maietta [00:50:48]:
You know? Well, god bless I mean, you know, you gotta love her. She it was a huge hit. She came back. She's a fabulous director and the things that she actually did direct, Shreve realized that she has to direct herself because she you know, nobody else is gonna do it. And, the star is born was her first taste of it. And there's a lot of problems with it.

Brad Shreve [00:51:06]:
Despite my my problems with this movie, I'll never understand this. It was nominated for 4 Oscars, and it swept the Golden Globes. It did win. Won everything.

Tony Maietta [00:51:15]:
People a lot of people liked it, and it was a huge hit.

Brad Shreve [00:51:18]:
It grossed to $80,000,000.

Tony Maietta [00:51:20]:
It was her biggest box office hit, which just kills me. $80,000,000 in 1976. Yeah. It was huge. It was huge. Teenage girls loved it. I remember my cousin loved The Star Is Born. She didn't know anything about Funny Girl, but, boy, she loved The Star Is Born.

Brad Shreve [00:51:37]:
I also think a lot of that has to do with Kristoff. When you look at Kristoff, and he has that very hot seventies. You know?

Tony Maietta [00:51:42]:
Well, that poster. Skinny Jesus. You

Brad Shreve [00:51:44]:
know, he's the poster boy of what people thought was hot in the seventies.

Tony Maietta [00:51:47]:
Did you ever see the Carol Burnett sketch that they did on that where she and I don't know who was the guy, but they're doing the poster, the famous the famous poster from the film with with him, you know, bare chested and she's up against his chest with her hand on it. No. The story of the sketches, the Kerbernet sketches that they've used they've spilled super glue, and they can't get unstuck. And it's very funny because Carol Burnett has the big Afro wig that Streisand has. Yeah. There's just it's so of its time. It's so seventies. I mean, I can appreciate it now for what she was trying to achieve and because I do personally love the music.

Tony Maietta [00:52:25]:
You gotta watch the last scene.

Brad Shreve [00:52:27]:
A good friend of mine, and I'm talking to you, Philip, he thinks this is the best.

Tony Maietta [00:52:30]:
Does he really?

Brad Shreve [00:52:31]:
He loves this film.

Tony Maietta [00:52:33]:
It has its moments when she's singing. Usually, I love Woman in the Moon. Also has a scene where he sees well, no. He sees her in the club sing, queen bee. So but the the moment when she becomes a star in everybody's eyes is this incredible song called queen bee, which she sings at the concert. You probably didn't get to it. Yeah. But, you know, she doesn't do the famous, this is missus John Norman Howard.

Tony Maietta [00:52:56]:
She does Esther Hoffman Howard. Yeah. And she comes out and she sings a song that he has written, and she's put music too just like in the version we're gonna talk about. And the song was called 1 More Look at You, and it's a fabulous song, and it's just her singing. It's like a one shot, which she says she regrets. She wish she had cut it more, but it's kind of like the ending of funny girl and that it's just the camera on her singing, and it's the most emotional part of the whole movie. And that's for me, That's all I want is that one scene. The rest of the movie, you're gonna keep.

Brad Shreve [00:53:31]:
I wanna toss off a few other things that jumped out of me, and these are mine because every movie has mistakes. But Mhmm. They jumped out at me because it just kinda validated everything else I felt about this movie. First of all, like I said, the apartment, she lived in this great apartment. Did you know what that would cost in Hollywood? I kinda said, okay. Maybe she got it in the divorce. So I I was able to set that aside.

Tony Maietta [00:53:50]:
Well, it was 77, so it wasn't that much. Yeah.

Brad Shreve [00:53:52]:
Well, it probably still would have been left for 77. Well, Hollywood wasn't that nice place to stay. Anyway

Tony Maietta [00:53:57]:
No.

Brad Shreve [00:53:57]:
I don't remember their names. I'm gonna say Christopher Staufferson walked walked in the door in her apartment with the pizza for breakfast. Yeah. She looks at me. She goes, oh, sausage? And he goes, no. Pepperoni. You can look at a pepperoni pizza and know it's a pepperoni pizza for god's sakes. I, Marissa and I both looked over and said, how can you mistake mistake that? Again, small, but it was just it was such a and then the one that drove both of us nuts.

Brad Shreve [00:54:20]:
And, again, we both had the immediate same reaction. She and who her two singers that she, you know, was working with at the beginning of the film

Tony Maietta [00:54:27]:
The Oreos?

Brad Shreve [00:54:28]:
Yes. The Oreos, which is hysterical. 2 black women and Barbra Streisand, so they were called the Oreos. Yeah. They are doing the the jingle for a cat food commercial.

Tony Maietta [00:54:37]:
Yeah. And she ruins it.

Brad Shreve [00:54:38]:
She ruins it and she because she keeps messing up, and she says, I'm allergic to cats anyway. Those girls would have read her. Instead, they were like, yep.

Tony Maietta [00:54:49]:
Exactly. We just lost a job. Thank you. Oh, it's okay. How are you doing with John Norman Howard? Yeah. I agree with you. It's well, it's you know, when you live in Streisand land, that's what it is. And she that's my main criticism of this film.

Tony Maietta [00:55:05]:
You know? As much as she might try to justify it, and she does, it is a vanity production. It's a hue I get pissed off when people say Yentl's Yentl was not a vanity production. Yentl, I'm gonna give you Yentl, but Yentl is a wonderful, wonderfully felt, deeply felt film. This is a vanity production. I'm sorry. There are more backlit shots of her, and she has all she has all this theory about, well, because she wanted to feel like she was they were always on stage and blah blah blah. No. You looked fabulous, Barbara.

Tony Maietta [00:55:34]:
That's why. She put that in there.

Brad Shreve [00:55:36]:
I read 2 critique. They said they didn't even know why Kris Kristofferson Shreve bothered to have the character.

Tony Maietta [00:55:44]:
I get what I get some of the things she was trying to do. She was doing it was it's a very feminist Oh, yeah. If you will, slant. I mean, she's always in a suit, some form of a suit. You know, kind of like I said, like, Judy was always you know, it was kind of like an androgyny. With Barbara, it really wasn't. With Barbara, it was a definite statement about men and women. The scene where she's putting makeup on him in the bathtub, which, by the way, they did in the Bradley Cooper, which I remember the first time I saw it.

Tony Maietta [00:56:09]:
I was shocked because that got a lot of criticism, the fact that she was putting makeup on him in the in the bathtub.

Brad Shreve [00:56:16]:
It was done a little different, though.

Tony Maietta [00:56:18]:
Well, they did a little differently, but I just I mean, he's she's still putting makeup on him. You know? And it's the fact that she was on top, when they first had the first love scene, which I'm sure you turned it off by then.

Brad Shreve [00:56:28]:
No. I saw that first love scene.

Tony Maietta [00:56:30]:
She gets on top of him. Yeah. You know? And that was a choice, you know, because she was saying things about male and female power. And she also said that, when they first asked her why she was remaking A Star is Born because, you know, Judy's version was so sublime. She said that she loved Judy's version, but that she feels like she has more to say about men and women in this day and age. And, you know, in that movie, they just loved each other, but there's also what about the hatred you feel for a person? And what about the anger and the fighting? And, you know, her character even says she broke up with her first husband because he wouldn't fight. So you get this real aggression with her in this film. I think it it flaws it.

Tony Maietta [00:57:09]:
I think it it makes it flawed.

Brad Shreve [00:57:11]:
I will say I definitely see the feminist slant on it. Yeah. I definitely see that and the fact that she made her self assured woman from the beginning. Yeah. But what bothers me about that is a self assured person would never have gone to bed with this guy after being disgusted with him.

Tony Maietta [00:57:28]:
Yeah. I mean, talk about red flags.

Brad Shreve [00:57:30]:
No. Yeah. Yeah. No. I I

Tony Maietta [00:57:32]:
mean, my god. She gets how about when he leaves her at the stadium? Did you get that far when he leaves her at the stadium?

Brad Shreve [00:57:38]:
Yes. Yes. She's standing there in the parking lot.

Tony Maietta [00:57:40]:
Isn't aren't they in Arizona or something? I thought they were in Arizona. How the hell did she get back to LA?

Brad Shreve [00:57:44]:
I don't know.

Tony Maietta [00:57:45]:
And yet she still goes out with him again. I mean, come on.

Brad Shreve [00:57:49]:
It is important to note, and I think I'm correct here. In this episode, at least has not outwardly said that he killed himself.

Tony Maietta [00:57:55]:
That's the other thing. I'm so glad you brought it up. That's what I wanna bring up. In every other version of A Star is Born, there's a sacrifice. Mhmm. The star sacrifices his life so his wife can have a career.

Brad Shreve [00:58:08]:
Right.

Tony Maietta [00:58:09]:
Not in this one. There is no indication that John Norman Maine crashed his car on purpose because there was no scene where he was told you're destroying her career. You you know, you you you're you've ruined her. You've got it. In every other scene, there's like, you're ruining her. You've got to you know, somebody says it or he overhears it. That doesn't happen in this movie. So he just dies because he had a car accident because he was drunk because he was drinking.

Tony Maietta [00:58:32]:
And I'm like, well, that's where's the where's the dramatic where's, like, the gut punch in that? You know?

Brad Shreve [00:58:39]:
I agree. It's just like, he's dead. Let's move on.

Tony Maietta [00:58:42]:
He's dead. I'm so glad you brought that up.

Brad Shreve [00:58:44]:
When we started talking about doing this about 3 weeks ago, I watched a YouTube clip that just showed the car crash scene. Mhmm. It was basically her just standing over him after the car crash, you know, holding him on his dying, which he looked incredibly good for for a guy that just had this horrible car accident.

Tony Maietta [00:58:57]:
Right? Interesting.

Brad Shreve [00:58:59]:
I guess he got thrown from the car.

Tony Maietta [00:59:00]:
I think she's good in that scene too. I I really like her in that scene.

Brad Shreve [00:59:03]:
It just shows them getting there after the crash, and I thought they must have shown that he decided to kill himself. So when I actually looked into it to see for the show, I'm like, no. He just crashed.

Tony Maietta [00:59:13]:
Isn't that amazing? Well, he was, like, driving a 160 miles an hour or something like that. I really wondered about that. And I thought, oh, I guess this is the way it is now. It's just that his substance abuse eventually ends up killing him. So when I saw the Bradley Cooper version and I saw they brought that back in, I was like, yes. Because that makes this is missus Norman Howard nor whatever.

Brad Shreve [00:59:34]:
Yes.

Tony Maietta [00:59:35]:
The last line so much more important because she is acknowledging the sacrifice.

Brad Shreve [00:59:41]:
Yep. Let's move on to the Bradley Cooper.

Tony Maietta [00:59:44]:
So let's move on to the Bradley Cooper one since that's a perfect lead in. This movie is brilliant. I think it's wonderful.

Brad Shreve [00:59:50]:
Brilliant. I love this movie.

Tony Maietta [00:59:53]:
I do too.

Brad Shreve [00:59:54]:
I've seen the Spryce and Berson before, and I remember hating it. So when I sat down, I said, okay. Clear your mind, and let's do it. And that's why at 53 minutes, I'm like, oh, no. This is even worse than I recall. That's why I had to stop. This version, I did the opposite. I said, okay.

Brad Shreve [01:00:10]:
I love this film, but let's look at it from a different perspective. I loved it just as much.

Tony Maietta [01:00:16]:
Yeah. I agree with you. I mean, I I was hesitant to watch it because of you know, it's hard for me because I love the 54 version so much. But, wow, I it had me from the first the first frame. It did. He I think it's interesting, though. You and I have talked about this. You weren't a fan of Maestro.

Tony Maietta [01:00:33]:
Right? Or are you a fan of Maestro? Did we talk about that?

Brad Shreve [01:00:37]:
Oh, you know, I don't think I saw it.

Tony Maietta [01:00:38]:
I'm not crazy about him in Maestro. I'm not crazy about him. I think he's very actor y. He's acting acting acting acting with a capital a. I didn't get that in this. He just embodied this character, and I thought I mean, so much more so much so that he was kind of incoherent a lot. And I was asking myself, what did he say? Because he's just so he's he's he's just so into this character, and I just found him fantastic in this and so sad. Yes.

Tony Maietta [01:01:07]:
And so and just heart heart wrenching. And I found her. I mean, I know she's brilliant, and I knew she was gonna be good as an actress because nobody can sing like that and be a lousy actress. The characters, I love the switches. Like I said before, I love the fact that it's her character who punches out the guy in the bar Yeah. As opposed to him because you were waiting him to do it because he's you know, wherever he goes, there's destruction because of Kris Kristofferson. Right? And because that's pretty much the thing. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [01:01:34]:
And she did it, and I thought, well, that's really a great twist. I love that. I love that they did that because they show what a feisty and she also gives you a reason. Now you could say the same thing about her character. Like, really? You sing like that and nobody's discovered you? And she gives you the reason because people are saying, we don't like the way you look.

Brad Shreve [01:01:52]:
Oh, yeah. Her father for god's sakes. I wanted to throw something in the television.

Tony Maietta [01:01:55]:
Oh, how about androgynous clay? When I realized I was androgynous clay, I I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

Brad Shreve [01:02:01]:
I know. I I was in shock.

Tony Maietta [01:02:03]:
But, you know, that's that's Hollywood. Yeah. We like the way you sing, but we don't like the way you look. So can you fix your nose and cut your hair and

Brad Shreve [01:02:09]:
yeah. If you think of Simon Cowell, he didn't do this in America's Got Talent or British Got Talent, but when they had America Pop Idol Mhmm. America's Pops or whatever it was called, he would kick people off the show because they didn't look good. Yeah. And his reasoning was, we're talking about a pop star here. You you can't make it the way you look, which is cruel. No.

Tony Maietta [01:02:26]:
It's true.

Brad Shreve [01:02:27]:
Yeah. It's totally different thing.

Tony Maietta [01:02:28]:
It's true. That was but I like that they put that in there. I like that they talked about that because you saw the reason why she was still struggling. It wasn't because nobody acknowledged her talent.

Brad Shreve [01:02:38]:
Yeah. I mean, she's not ugly, but she's certainly not star power, love.

Tony Maietta [01:02:41]:
Yeah. Well and but they didn't do that in the Streisand one if you notice. Because first of all, Barbara's not ugly by this long I don't know why. When I get the whole Streisand ugly thing is ridiculous. She's not ugly. She's a beautiful woman. She's a striking, striking woman, but she's unusual looking. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [01:02:57]:
So what they're saying is is you're too unusual looking, so we can't use you for as a pop star. So, I think with Gaga, I like that. I like the fact that you got the reason why she was struggling. I also like the fact that she wasn't immediately a success. You know, she doesn't go on stage and sing this sing shallow. I don't know why that how that didn't make her an immediate success, but, you know, she started working with them, and she worked with them, and and then she became a huge star.

Brad Shreve [01:03:26]:
There's two reasons why I love this movie that I felt the others didn't have. One was the relationship between her and Bradley Cooper. I bought more, and I'll explain in a minute. And number 2, I felt her rise to stardom was more believable.

Tony Maietta [01:03:40]:
Yeah. I agree with you on that.

Brad Shreve [01:03:41]:
As far as the relationship between she and Bradley Cooper, he was drunk when he met her, but he was still I mean, it's hard for Bradley Cooper not to be charming, but it wasn't just his looks. He was charming. He was complimenting her. He was coherent enough that he had intelligent conversation. He was drunk, but he was he he was intelligent enough to converse. He the way he looked at her, he adored her.

Tony Maietta [01:04:03]:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve [01:04:03]:
That was all missing in all the other films.

Tony Maietta [01:04:06]:
I think that

Brad Shreve [01:04:07]:
yeah. You could see why. Okay. He's a drunk, but I like this guy. And especially after she punched him out,

Tony Maietta [01:04:14]:
Mhmm.

Brad Shreve [01:04:14]:
And they they go to the soup they're just doing these simple everyday thing. They he takes her to the supermarket. He bandages up her arm in the parking lot.

Tony Maietta [01:04:21]:
Those were lovely lovely touches.

Brad Shreve [01:04:22]:
Tender moments right from the beginning.

Tony Maietta [01:04:24]:
Lovely touches. Yeah. I really like that. I think that what I like about it is, to me, it harks back. First of all, she gives Judy a shout out in the very beginning when she sings the verse over the rainbow Uh-huh. When she's leaving the club. And then when I was like, I thought thank you, Gaga. Thank you.

Tony Maietta [01:04:41]:
I think that the relationship between them is much closer to the strike, to the Garland Mason because they do look at each other with tremendous love. There's tremendous love in there, which I don't get in the Streisand version at all. Does she she love she says she loves John Norman Howard, but I don't know. She doesn't always act like it when she's throwing things around and breaking bottles and shit.

Brad Shreve [01:05:03]:
I don't see it in any of the versions. I do agree it was written in the 57 the 54 version. Mhmm. But they didn't have the attraction that these 2 have.

Tony Maietta [01:05:12]:
Well, no. I think they're yeah. We talked a little bit about the the physical the physical attraction. Yeah. I agree with you on that. But the love is there. I mean, the scenes, they're attraction. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [01:05:18]:
I agree with you on that, but the love is there. I mean, the scenes there there's a

Brad Shreve [01:05:19]:
huge amount

Tony Maietta [01:05:19]:
of love there. When she when Garland bails him out of jail in the 50 fours, I mean, it's just it's heartbreaking because she just loves him so much. And I feel like with the Gaga thing, it's it was kind of a a heart back to that. I just loved everything, but I love the fact that she didn't become a star immediately, that she worked for it, and then she eventually became it. And then I love the fact that they reintroduced the father, the the parent. I thought that was a great addition. Mhmm. It didn't seem hokey.

Brad Shreve [01:05:50]:
They told us so much about her.

Tony Maietta [01:05:52]:
Told us a lot about her. Yeah. Which we didn't she wasn't just this entity who dropped down from from the heavens. It was you know, She actually had a background, which I thought was amazing. And I also like the fact that they had that character, Remy, who came in who kind of you know, because I there's managers like that in the music world. I mean, you know, I think probably every manager is who just they kind of controlled her life and took her life over and and shut him out. And he was the one who said, you're destroying her. Right? He gave Bradley Cooper's character the talk, which through which propelled him to take his own life.

Tony Maietta [01:06:26]:
So I thought, wow. That's that was a good addition.

Brad Shreve [01:06:30]:
And there's 2 powerful scenes. In the movies where she's getting her big award, whether the Oscar, this one's the Grammy, you know, all of them

Tony Maietta [01:06:39]:
Yeah. Oh my god.

Brad Shreve [01:06:41]:
The male character the the love interest comes in and he destroy he runs the whole moment for her.

Tony Maietta [01:06:46]:
He hits her.

Brad Shreve [01:06:47]:
This one was gut wrenching.

Tony Maietta [01:06:49]:
It was. It was. It was.

Brad Shreve [01:06:51]:
Oh my god. I'm like, this is supposed to be the best year of her life. And the thing is she handles it well. I mean, he's walking up on stage drunk. She pulls him over, and so well done because she at least gets him to calm down. Yeah. And he's not fumbling all over the place. Her mistake was she continued her speech long enough for him to piss all over himself.

Tony Maietta [01:07:13]:
That's just that was devastating. That was such that was such a better choice than smacking her.

Brad Shreve [01:07:18]:
Yes.

Tony Maietta [01:07:18]:
I don't remember if in the Streisand version if he hits her, and I don't think he does. But, obviously, in the 37 version and the 54 version, he accidentally smacks her, and that's the that's the horrific moment. It is so much more horrific that he pees his pants.

Brad Shreve [01:07:34]:
Yes. And

Tony Maietta [01:07:35]:
You know, on on national television, it's so much more horrifying than a accidental hit. You know? And you get that humiliation for her.

Brad Shreve [01:07:44]:
Oh, it was played beautifully.

Tony Maietta [01:07:45]:
It was.

Brad Shreve [01:07:46]:
She's sitting there making her speech, and she's wondering why is the audience gasping. And she turns around, and she immediately pulls her dress open to cover it up. But the damage is done.

Tony Maietta [01:07:56]:
So when Remy, the character of Remy, says she's a joke because of you, you get that horrorification, the horror that he must have felt. Like, oh my god. I'm not just doing this to myself anymore. I'm doing it to her. Yes. So I must kill myself because I must set her free. You know? You think why couldn't he just leave? Well, she's got this taint on her. I mean, it's it's incredible.

Tony Maietta [01:08:20]:
It's an incredible choice, a great change. Brilliant. I thought it was a brilliant choice.

Brad Shreve [01:08:24]:
I also thought the suicide scene was better handled.

Tony Maietta [01:08:28]:
Oh, it was. You know,

Brad Shreve [01:08:29]:
in in the 37 version and the 54 version, he sacrifices himself. They show him on the beach. He jumps in the water, and then you you see the robe being washed out

Tony Maietta [01:08:38]:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve [01:08:39]:
When the tide comes in. And you know what happens. God, this this just ripped my heart out.

Tony Maietta [01:08:43]:
Yeah. And you don't see anything but, you know, in closing the garage door.

Brad Shreve [01:08:47]:
Well, you watch his face and him holding that belt. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [01:08:50]:
And

Brad Shreve [01:08:50]:
then he closes the garage door, and the beautiful touch was the dog outside the garage door, like, looking in.

Tony Maietta [01:08:57]:
Yeah. That was sweet. Yeah. It's funny when when I was watching it the first time and he was talking to the Ron Rifkin character when he's in rehab about trying to kill himself as a kid and how it didn't work, I thought, oh, we've got some foreshadowing, I think. And sure enough, it was it was foreshadowed, and I thought it was, yeah, I thought it was gut wrenching. How and so wonderfully shot. Yeah. You know? I just I just thought it was a home run.

Brad Shreve [01:09:27]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Tony Maietta [01:09:28]:
I really love it. I really love it. It's it's nearly flawless. Yeah.

Brad Shreve [01:09:31]:
I have one complaint about this movie. They dropped the f bomb too often.

Tony Maietta [01:09:36]:
Mhmm.

Brad Shreve [01:09:36]:
I mean, I have a potty mouth, but it was like, fuckity, fuck, fuck, fuck. And I'm

Tony Maietta [01:09:40]:
Oh my god. Yeah. It was like it

Brad Shreve [01:09:43]:
it was so distracting. It just didn't seem realistic. I mean

Tony Maietta [01:09:45]:
I know. I was yeah. I was look I looked over at Michael at my at my friend Michael when we were watching it, and I was like, you hate this, don't you? Because he does not like he doesn't even like it once or twice. And he I'm he said, I can't. It was really too much.

Brad Shreve [01:09:58]:
And I've known people that talk like that, but these every single character, they were all talking to each other that way.

Tony Maietta [01:10:03]:
Yeah. It was like one it wasn't Andor Dice Clay even. I don't even think he said he didn't say it at all.

Brad Shreve [01:10:09]:
No. He's probably the one person that didn't swear.

Tony Maietta [01:10:13]:
Isn't that funny? But, yeah, that that oh, wait. That bothered me. I was like, oh, come on. I mean, I know you can talk this way, but come on. It's a movie. I mean, that was the way it was. It it lessened it as the as the movie went on. Right? I mean, I don't think that I don't know.

Tony Maietta [01:10:28]:
Maybe it didn't. How about Sam Elliott too? I mean, there's a new character that was

Brad Shreve [01:10:32]:
fantastic. He was great. He was great.

Tony Maietta [01:10:35]:
The additions they made were so smart, and the changes they made were so smart, but they stuck to the skeleton. And to me, I felt it really harked back to the 54 version. You know? So for ranking them, obviously, the 54 version will always be my my favorite version. I think it's I just I just think it's a brilliant, brilliant film, not just Judy. I think the direction, I think the music, I think, yes, it's long, but it's an investment. And I for me, it's always an investment that pays off. What would your number one be?

Brad Shreve [01:11:06]:
Okay. I'll I'll go through my list. Number 1, Gaga. Hands down. No sense of us.

Tony Maietta [01:11:12]:
So the the the new their most recent ones, though?

Brad Shreve [01:11:13]:
Most recent one.

Tony Maietta [01:11:14]:
Okay. So let's do this, and let's go back and forth.

Brad Shreve [01:11:16]:
Okay.

Tony Maietta [01:11:17]:
My number 2 is what? Price Hollywood with Constance Bennett and Lowell Sherman. The embryonic star is born.

Brad Shreve [01:11:25]:
My numb number 2 is 1954, Judy Garland.

Tony Maietta [01:11:28]:
Okay. So your 1 is Gaga, 2 is Garland. My number 3 is oh, wait a minute. My number 2 is Gaga.

Brad Shreve [01:11:37]:
I was surprised. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [01:11:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what I was thinking. I didn't think I've ever missed. So, okay, I changed that. One is 54. The second one is Gaga.

Tony Maietta [01:11:46]:
My third is What Price Hollywood. I'm assuming that's probably yours too. Right?

Brad Shreve [01:11:51]:
Yeah. I go with my number one is Gaga. My number 2 is Judy Garland.

Tony Maietta [01:11:56]:
Mhmm.

Brad Shreve [01:11:56]:
And my number 3 is What Price Hollywood? Definitely.

Tony Maietta [01:11:59]:
Yeah. I excel. So both of us. So Streisand is number 4 for both of us.

Brad Shreve [01:12:05]:
No. 37 is number 4.

Tony Maietta [01:12:07]:
Oh, that's right. I forgot about 37. Yeah. Number 4. Yeah. Me too. Me too.

Brad Shreve [01:12:12]:
And then rock bottom, in my opinion, shouldn't even be on the page, as the 1976 Barbara Streisand version.

Tony Maietta [01:12:18]:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve [01:12:20]:
Since Barbara owns it, I think the best thing she could do is lock it in her safe and forget it existed.

Tony Maietta [01:12:25]:
Well, you know, she redid it.

Brad Shreve [01:12:26]:
Yeah. I know.

Tony Maietta [01:12:27]:
Just as the way we were, she put in some scenes and which she can do. She's the producer. She owns it. Yeah. You know? It's it's let her do it, and she thinks it improves it. It improves it, but I don't know. I I it's it's not as bad as I remember it being when I saw it again because I maybe I just it became mythically bad in my head. But, yeah, definitely not not the best.

Tony Maietta [01:12:50]:
And I love the fact that the new version, the Gaga version, I really hope is the last one because I just I'm it probably isn't.

Brad Shreve [01:12:57]:
They should stop on their head.

Tony Maietta [01:12:59]:
But that's the thing about this story. It just it goes it never fails. It goes on. It's a mythic Hollywood story even though it's not even Hollywood anymore. For some reason, this story just inspires people because you think about it. It's pretty you know, it it is. It's elemental. Yeah.

Tony Maietta [01:13:14]:
You know? It's it's rise and fall. It's about addiction. It's everything.

Brad Shreve [01:13:18]:
It's a very simple story.

Tony Maietta [01:13:20]:
It is a very simple story, but they really it it it really hits home because it it deals with really basic strong human emotions. So it's fun.

Brad Shreve [01:13:29]:
I enjoyed watching them all. Even the struggle through I really and I feel like I fell on my duty chair. I I couldn't do it.

Tony Maietta [01:13:36]:
Not so much fun to sit there somehow.

Brad Shreve [01:13:39]:
And that's rare. My husband and I watch bad movies because we enjoy bad movies sometimes, but this is not fun bad.

Tony Maietta [01:13:45]:
If you're ever gonna watch it, I would just watch the last scene or don't. You don't have to. I love I love with 1 more look at you.

Brad Shreve [01:13:53]:
I did plan to go back and watch certain scenes just to see how those scenes were done. Mhmm.

Tony Maietta [01:13:58]:
Well, this was fun.

Brad Shreve [01:13:59]:
It was fun. Look for either Tony and I

Tony Maietta [01:14:02]:
on social media. We'd like to hear what you think of our choices. I'm tony Maietta. You gotta put the dash in. tony-maietta.com, and on Facebook is Tony Maietta. And and on Instagram is tcmt00.

Brad Shreve [01:14:15]:
And I am bradshreve.com. Most of my social media is @bradshreeve. Just go to my website, and you can link to all my socials.

Tony Maietta [01:14:23]:
We wanna hear what you think. Yeah. Let us know. Thanks, everybody.

Brad Shreve [01:14:29]:
Do you enjoy going to Hollywood? Well, of course, you do. And Tony and I would like you to do something for us and more important for other podcast listeners out there. Go to Apple Podcast, iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast and rate and review the show. A 5 star would be especially nice. That way, when others are looking for a new show, they'll see ours and see those reviews, and they will stop and listen. And, boy, would that will make their day. It will be much appreciated. Thank you for being with us.