Tony Maietta:
Hello. I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to going Hollywood. 

You know, Brad, I always like to start our podcast episodes with some fun, light, even when it's a heavy movie, we always do a fun little skit. And I was thinking of—

Brad Shreve:
Well, we think they're fun.

Tony Maietta:
We think they're fun. I don't know if the audience thinks they're fun. And we, today for our episode of today on the film On Golden Pond, we were, I was thinking of some fun stuff and then I got some very sad news. A member of our podcast family, uh, and someone that I love very much, uh, has left this plane and gone on to another dimension, I guess you should say. He's passed on. And it is, um, my— I want to say my Italian papa, but I had an Italian father, so he's my second Italian papa. Mr. Dominic Spina, the father of my best friend Nick, and of course the husband of My Italian mama, Antoinette Spina, left us yesterday.

Tony Maietta:
And for a while I was thinking, thank God I was able to see them last week and tell them both how much I love them. And I was thinking today, wow, kind of, can I record? Is it good? Should I not record? And then I thought about the film we're talking about. And I thought, wow, it's kind of, yeah, it's kind of appropriate. that we're talking about this film about facing mortality, and the reality kind of hits you in the face. So, this episode is dedicated to Dominic Spina, an incredible man, one of a kind, my Italian papa, and also to Antoinette. We are thinking about you, and we love you, and we are holding you close in our hearts.

Brad Shreve:
Bless you, Dominic, and my My condolences to family, everyone, and you.

Tony Maietta:
It's just, you know, it's funny when reality kind of comes up, faces you, slaps you in the face, when these things happen, and you think about a film like the film we're talking about today, On Golden Pond. And this is not going to be a downer episode, ladies and gentlemen, I promise you, because it's not only a wonderful, touching film, but it's also a very funny film. And I'm excited to talk about it. But it's just interesting how we always talk about levels of meta, and levels of reality mixing with fiction. And so when it actually happens to you in your real life, and you're doing something like this, it really makes you think. It gives this movie even more meaning, an additional layer of meaning. At least it does to me. I think that when real life kind of seeps into fictional life, it's interesting how that happens.

Tony Maietta:
Do you find that?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And we found that a lot of the things we talk about end up being timely. But this one especially, this is a...

Tony Maietta:
Really timely. Yeah, really timely.

Brad Shreve:
We do find that.

Tony Maietta:
But this was your idea. You wanted— this is part of our Swan Song series. This was the last film for the legendary Henry Fonda. And you wanted to talk about On Golden Pond, Brad. What was the impetus, besides the fact it's a fabulous movie? What was the impetus behind that?

Brad Shreve:
This is a movie that was— it's so loved and was such a big blockbuster when it came out. And you never hear anyone talk about it. It's just kind of faded away. And I don't know why. Part of it may be the production style, which I do want to eventually talk about. I think maybe in a TikTok Marvel comic world, maybe it doesn't work for people anymore. I don't know the answer to this. I asked Maurice to watch it with me.

Brad Shreve:
I've been wanting him to watch this for a while, and when I do have him watch a show with me for the podcast, I tell him he has to shut up 'cause I wanna hear his opinion. But he wouldn't do it because he's like, I don't wanna see a sad film. And I'm like, well, it's not a sad film. And he goes, oh, everything I've seen is a sad film, and people tell me it's a sad film. And then we bumped into some friends, they're like, oh yeah, it's a horribly sad film. I'm like, it's a touching film, it's not sad. They're not the same thing.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
And I thought, maybe that's a perception that people have. Anyway, think it's an incredible film. I love Henry Fonda. I think this was an outstanding film to go out on. Bless him for that.

Tony Maietta:
Bless his daughter for making it all happen is actually the way it is.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. What a way to go because so many— not every actor goes out with a bang and he really did. So, I just felt like it was time to talk about

Tony Maietta:
it. In this series of final performances, of swan songs, final films, we've talked about, we've been picking the good ones. We've been picking ones that have been, okay, that's a worthy final film. But there are a lot of last films in which the actor or actress just kind of fade away in dreck. I mean, do I have to mention Trog with Joan Crawford? I don't think so. People know what I'm talking about. Or Bette with Wicked Stepmother. So, it's just like— This is, yes.

Tony Maietta:
And what I love about this is, and going back to what you said about it being a sad film, it's so funny. That's the thing. And that's why when you say people say it's a sad film, and myself rewatching it again, laughing so much because it is a brilliantly funny, witty, heartwarming film. It's nothing sad about it. I think you're absolutely right. It's tender and it is moving, but I don't find it sad at all. You know?

Brad Shreve:
I understand his perception because he hasn't seen it and he's just basing it on clips he's seen.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, of course.

Brad Shreve:
And things he's heard. But people that I knew, maybe people were remembering it wrong. People that had seen it were saying, well, they agree. I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
Maybe they're looking on it and the— I mean, the subject matter is about mortality. The subject matter is about a man facing his mortality. And yeah, That can be very sad, air quotes, that can be sad if you think about it, but it can also be like, it's also real. It's also what we're all dealing with. And it's about, and especially coming from my own personal feelings today, it's part of life. You know, it's what we're dealing with in life. If you're fortunate enough to live as long as Henry Fonda did, or as Norman Thayer did, that's going to come up. And if you have a family member and you're fortunate enough to, to live long lives, then this is part of life.

Tony Maietta:
But what's so wonderful about On Golden Pond, in my opinion, is the fact that it doesn't dwell on that. It's a facet. And this also shows how you deal with that. The young boy played by Philip McKeon in this film, and how affected he is by Norman Thayer Jr., by Henry Fonda, and their relationship, which is so moving and touching and heartwarming. It's It's a wonderful film that we've been talking around. It's a wonderful film. I'm sorry, I said Philip McKean. Wrong.

Tony Maietta:
Doug McKean. I'm glad I caught that.

Brad Shreve:
He wasn't on Alice.

Tony Maietta:
And he's not a part of the McKean dynasty, acting dynasty, which I thought was hysterically funny. But we'll get into that. We'll get into that. Why don't we— let's go back to talking about this. Do we want to tell the people what— because we've been talking all around it. What Is on Golden Pond from Universal in 1981. What is it about, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Well, I have 2 synopses. Uh, the main one that I spent a little time with, it's Norman Thayer, Henry Fonda. He is turning 80 and he is treating turning 80 like a terminal illness. Like, it's— I'm done, you know, it's going to be over soon. And he, he really focuses on that and He and his lovely wife, who's a breath of fresh air throughout, Ethel, played by Katharine Hepburn, they go to their summer cottage on Golden Pond. And he just grumbles and she sparkles and she spends a lot of her time being Looney for the Loons. Rain! Rain! And then their daughter Chelsea, played by—

Tony Maietta:
Norman! Norman! The Loons are welcoming us back! Norman!

Brad Shreve:
Their daughter Chelsea, played by the lovely and gorgeous Jane Fonda, drops off her new boyfriend's 13-year-old son, and her boyfriend is played by a very brief early role for Dabney Coleman. They drop off her boyfriend's 13-year-old son, and they run off to Europe. The young man is not thrilled being dropped off with this old woman, and especially this cranky old man.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
But they become close as they start fishing, and they get to know each other, and looking for the legendary Trout Walter, uh, and they get in a boat accident. And somewhere along all of that, they become friends, and it gives Chelsea an opportunity to take a shot at making peace with her father.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Now that's the long— my long version. My real brief version of this is this is a film about Jane Fonda working out her real daddy issues.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. On screen. On screen. Yes. Right on screen. It's quite remarkable. Talk about layers of meta. Yeah, that's good.

Tony Maietta:
You know, you kind of already, and you kind of listed the cast when you were giving us the synopsis, but you forgot to mention one person. Who plays Ethel Thayer, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Oh my goodness. I can't believe, possibly my favorite actress, Miss Katharine Hepburn.

Tony Maietta:
KH herself with her 4th Oscar. This was the one. That, uh, and remind me to tell you a funny story that she said to Jane Fonda after she won. But this was Katharine Hepburn's 4th Oscar. This was Henry Fonda's first Oscar and only Oscar. And, uh, Katharine Hepburn is so delightful in this playing Ethel Thayer Jr. Sounds like I'm lisping, doesn't it? Ethel Thayer Jr. Not Ethel Thayer Jr., Ethel Thayer.

Tony Maietta:
Henry Fonda plays Norman Thayer. And yes, they spend their summers at the idyllic On Golden Pond. in New Hampshire. And that's exactly what it's about. The entire film is set at a lakeside summer home. And it does— talks about all those things: aging and mortality and marriage and the painful relationship between father and daughter, which is somewhat resolved at the end of this film. And through that, Jane Fonda— Somewhat. Somewhat.

Tony Maietta:
And through that, Jane Fonda was hoping to somewhat resolve her difficult relationship with her father. And there's some wonderful stories about it. But this was based on a play. On Golden Pond began as a play written by Ernest Thompson, who was an unsuccessful, non-working actor, who had this idea about writing this play that pretty much talked about the summers he remembered as a child on this idyllic lake. And it opened off-Broadway in 1978, and it transferred to Broadway in '79. And it was a hit. It wasn't a huge hit. It wasn't a big, big hit.

Tony Maietta:
But what it did do was get the attention of many of these actors, because, you know, Hollywood, particularly at this time, and very much now, not the kindest to older actors, to aging stars. And this has the 2 main characters, you know, Norman's almost 80, Ethel's in her late 60s, he says. So, this is prime for these actors. And Jane Fonda saw it, and she'd been looking for a project to do with her father her entire life, and she knew how perfect this was. And it's funny because at the same time, Hepburn also saw it. So Hepburn was interested in this project as well. So it wasn't very difficult. There wasn't a question of convincing Katharine Hepburn to do this.

Tony Maietta:
She wanted to do it. And once Henry Fonda, who was slightly hesitant about playing an elderly man obsessed with death because— You know, he was experiencing his own serious health problems. Once he was aboard, it was pretty much easy to get the cast in place. But getting the financing, as you can imagine, was very difficult. When you have 2 septuagenarian and an octogenarian star, and it takes— it's about 2, as Jane Fonda said, it's about 2 old people and a little kid on a lake in New Hampshire. Who's gonna— who wants to see that? They had a very difficult time getting financing for it, but they did. A very small budget. And it was shot in one summer in 1980 at Lake Squam in New Hampshire.

Tony Maietta:
And that's all there is to it. It really is about their relationship. And I think that's what's so beautiful about this film, is it's about all those things, but mostly it's about the relationship of this family.

Brad Shreve:
You know, there's the whole thing like, could Blazing Saddles be made today, or some of the other films today? And as I'm watching this, I'm like, Could this film be made today? Because it had, like you said, it had a struggle because you had— it's about 2 older people.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
I think if they act goofy, like on Grumpy Old Men, which I don't even know if I've ever seen, I think it would be easier. But this— it's not just that they're aged. It's the pacing of this film. The characters are allowed to breathe in their dialogue. And there's long moments of silence where we just have shots of the lake and the forest and beautiful music playing. And it— As I mentioned earlier, in a TikTok world, it would be, I think, harder today to get this made. It may end up being a big success through word of mouth, but it would be really, really hard to make.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I think so. Definitely. I mean, yeah, much harder, because movies today are geared for what? Kids. You know, they're geared for the male adolescent. There are some, of course, very good, very thought-provoking, very literate films being made today, but not that many. And this you know, this is 1981. This is just the very, very end of the second golden era of Hollywood that we always talk about, with films like Chinatown, and films like Harold and Maude, and these filmmakers like Scorsese and Rydell, who made this— this film was directed by Mark Rydell, we should say that— were really making their mark. Sidney Lumet, making their mark.

Tony Maietta:
And we knew, you know, pretty soon that's going to go by the wayside. That's going to go to Porky's and... and all that dreck that came up in the '80s.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Thank God for this. Thank God that this happened when it did. And thank God that— I mean, think about this. Katharine Hepburn and Henry Fonda, 2 of the biggest, most— here's that word again— iconic actors in Hollywood history. And first, not only had they never worked together, they had never, according to Hepburn, they had never even met. which is kind of crazy when you think about it. But when you think about Fonda was very, they were both very New York-focused actors. You know, Hepburn didn't really socialize with anybody, and Fonda was pretty insular too.

Tony Maietta:
So it kind of makes sense. And apparently, the very first time they meet, Hepburn greeted Fonda with, well, it's about time. And she brought him, do you know the story? She brought him a hat of, who do you think? Whose hat did she bring him? A fishy cap.

Brad Shreve:
Oh yes, I do know the answer to that. this, Spencer Tracy's lucky hat.

Tony Maietta:
She brought him a fishing hat of Spencer Tracy's that he wears in the film. That's Spencer Tracy's hat.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
That's really kind of touching. So, it's wonderful that they got together. But Jane Fonda tells a very funny story about the first time, because she had never met Hepburn either. And even though they arranged all this, and she wanted Hepburn very much in this film, and they— but when it came time for Hepburn and Henry Fonda to meet Jane Fonda, who was a producer on this. She, you know, put this all together. She was not present. And that did not sit well with Katharine Hepburn. Unfortunately, Jane Fonda was off in the Appalachians with Dolly Parton, doing something for, you know, working on that film that she did.

Tony Maietta:
And so she wasn't there. And according to Jane Fonda, when they first got together for the first— she first went to meet her when they were on location, the first words that Hepburn said to Fonda were, I don't like you. So can you imagine you're meeting Katharine Hepburn, and she's going to star in this movie opposite you playing your mother with your father? And I mean, as if that's not intimidating enough, her first words are, I don't like you. And it was because of that. It was because Hepburn felt that Fonda should have been there. And she probably should have been. Because as a producer, she should have been there. But obviously,

Brad Shreve:
yes,

Tony Maietta:
they got past that. They got past that.

Brad Shreve:
Well, it's hard for me to imagine that the 2 top stars had not met before, because it is really hard for me to picture Ethel and Norman not having been together for over 50 years. It just— they had so much chemistry as a couple.

Tony Maietta:
They do.

Brad Shreve:
It's one of the beautiful things about the film is you aren't sitting there saying, I believe it. You just naturally fall into it.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I think yes. And Hepburn had such respect for Henry Fonda. Henry Fonda, like Spencer Tracy, was an actor's actor. But Fonda was such a shy, sensitive, some say, including his daughter, standoffish man that he had very few— he wasn't a big Hollywood player. Neither was she. So, it wouldn't be that rare that their paths would not cross, because they weren't hanging out at Ciro's together. They weren't hanging out at, you know, Romanoff's. They weren't hanging out at Perino's.

Tony Maietta:
They were basically 2 very diligent working actors whose paths just never crossed. I mean, it's kind of weird when you think about it. Yeah. But not that weird, because that's the way they were. I also think it's interesting that we have Dabney Coleman in this as Bill Ray, who plays Jane Fonda's fiancé, later husband. And they had just done 9 to 5. And he was, you know, he was just Franklin Hart in 9 to 5, who she fantasizes about killing. And obviously that was not their real relationship.

Tony Maietta:
They were good friends. And she asked him to be in this and she said to him, there's no money, Dabney. There's absolutely no money. This budget is so small because we had to go to Europe to get financing for this film. Would you consider doing it? And he's like, spending a few days on a lake with Katharine Hepburn and Henry Fonda? Are you kidding me? Of course I'll do it. And it's kind of a, It's a fun role. It's kind of a thankless role. But I think he— another 2 people who have great chemistry are Dabney Coleman and Jane Fonda.

Tony Maietta:
Don't you think so?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, definitely. I will add Jane Fonda and Katharine Hepburn. Everybody just really connected and seemed very real.

Tony Maietta:
They did. It was such a charmed shoot. It was such a charmed shoot in that respect. And the fact that Henry Fonda was very much His health was incredibly frail. And there's a couple of scenes we can talk about that were really challenging for him, and that people were very, very nervous about him. But do we want to talk about— you went through the cast. Is there anybody else that we didn't talk about? We talked about Doug McKeon, who's a wonderful— I'm kind of sad that there's not— I mean, he still acted, he worked. What did you think about Doug McKeon as Billy Ray Jr.? Isn't he wonderful?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, and I remember when this movie came out, even though I was pretty young, what an outstanding job he did. And so it's kind of funny that, that he just kind of faded away, and it's kind of sad.

Tony Maietta:
He did other films, and in fact, he did a movie in 1992. Now, we just said that he is not part of the McKean acting dynasty. He's not related to Nancy McKean or Philip McKean, but here's a fun little tidbit. In 1992, he did appear opposite Nancy's Facts of Life co-star Lisa Whelchel, and he played her brother. Not that that means anything, but I just think that's funny that he's not— how many McKeons are there, were there in Hollywood? And he's not related to either one of them. And frankly, he's a better actor in my opinion than either one of them. He is wonderful. People think this movie gets syrupy or sappy or sentimental.

Tony Maietta:
Boy, that kid cuts right through it. You know, his favorite word is bullshit. Remember even, and Norman says that to him.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
You like that word, don't you? Bullshit. Yeah, I do. And Henry Fonda goes, that's a good word. It's great. It's so great.

Brad Shreve:
And I kept really thinking about that because that was just when kids started using profanity more that age publicly. They always did, you know, to each other, but around adults, I kind of thought, wow, that seemed unusual back then.

Tony Maietta:
I think it's what gives this movie— it takes away the syrupiness of it. The fact that, you know, there's language. This is a PG movie. There's some— it's not,

Brad Shreve:
you

Tony Maietta:
It's not a Hallmark film. It's not The Waltons. There's definitely some language in here and some very, very funny jokes. And I just don't understand when people think— get turned off this movie, they think it's sad. I think they're not— they haven't seen it, obviously. So, they don't realize how fun it is.

Brad Shreve:
And I do want to get one cast member in there, because there's really, to me, one more, not a huge role, but he, other than very bit parts, he's one that had a larger role. And that is William Lantau as Charlie Martin. And he was just a charming character, the mailman.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, he's wonderful. And he was Chelsea's former beau, you know, and that scene they have together. Speaking of, I mean, you alluded to it. Jane Fonda, so incredibly gorgeous in this film. I mean, in her early 40s at this point. But did you know that The Jane Fonda workout book was released one month before this movie was. The workout book was released in November, and this movie came out in December. So this was— '81 was quite a year for Jane Fonda.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I see why it sold.

Tony Maietta:
You see the effects of that workout because Jesus, she looks phenomenal in this movie.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah,

Tony Maietta:
she's incredible. She's incredible. So I guess we should go in the background a little bit of this, this film. The budget was a, was a small budget. about $7 million. And because it was filmed primarily on Squam Lake in New Hampshire, turned into basically on Golden Pond. The house, it was an existing lake house that was leased from local people, and they added a wing and an upstairs room and a balcony. And the agreement was, was that, well, if we can use your house, we'll put it back to the way it was.

Tony Maietta:
once we leave. And of course, nobody's gonna want them to take off the upper floor and the wing. So the house still exists. You can see tours of, you know, people go on YouTube looking at this. It's a beautiful house. It's a beautiful setting. Very rustic, very weathered and worn, but in that charming kind of way.

Brad Shreve:
I would kill to have that lake house.

Tony Maietta:
Isn't it great? Especially with that upper, with the balcony.

Brad Shreve:
It's gorgeous.

Tony Maietta:
Right there on, right there on the beautiful lake. And when Ethel and Norman arrive, of course, that's one of the very first things is they go to the lake to call out to the loons, which is one of the most clichéd things about this movie is the loons, Norman, they're welcoming us back. And it's such a beautiful setting. It makes you realize, my God, this was in the time when— and Thompson, who wrote this, who wrote the play and wrote the screenplay, talked about this. Ernest Thompson. This was a time when people would spend entire summers at lakes, not just going for a week or two, but, you know, from May until August or September. That was their life. The entire summer was spent at a lake.

Tony Maietta:
So that's what this movie is about. This movie's about this family returning to this idyllic lakeside for probably the last time because of Norman's health and because of the fact that he's also facing his 80th birthday. birthday. And that's why Jane— Chelsea Thayer comes to visit to celebrate his birthday, and they leave the boy with them for a few weeks. So, let's talk about this movie. Let's talk about some of the scenes that mean something to you, Brad, or the scenes that you would like to talk about. What jumps out at you from this film?

Brad Shreve:
You know, it's really hard to pick a particular scene, because it's such a— like I said, it's such a quiet pace, and it just kind of all folds into each other very Simply, I would say the one that hurts me the most is when Norman gets lost on the path.

Tony Maietta:
That happens fairly early.

Brad Shreve:
Very early.

Tony Maietta:
Very early in the— Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
They do a good job of setting up that Norman is having memory problems. Right within the very first few minutes, he looks at a picture of his family on the mantle, I believe it is, and doesn't— he's like, who the hell is that? Who the hell is that?

Tony Maietta:
Who the hell is that? Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
He has no idea who they are.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And talk about a That's a great— and before CGI too. That's a great— they really put Katharine Hepburn and Henry Fonda in that. It looks like a real photo. You know, they obviously had to do some trickery to make that happen since they'd never met before. Who the hell is that? He keeps saying it over and over. And he also sees a photo of himself as a, you know, a young man, Abe Lincoln time for Henry Fonda, you know, lifting weights shirtless. And you're like, Henry Fonda was a beautiful man.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I was— that's what I thought.

Tony Maietta:
Beautiful man, a beautiful man. And he looks at himself and then he looks in the mirror and he sees himself at almost 80. And God knows I've had those moments too. Not quite 80, but when you, you know, you see yourself younger in your 20s, it's just your height of virility. And then you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you don't, as Dorothy says, you don't even feel like it's the same yourself.

Brad Shreve:
Even like me, who I am working out and getting more exercise than I ever have in my entire life. I feel better than I ever have. And I look in the mirror and I'm like, Damn it, why didn't I do this in my 20s?

Tony Maietta:
It doesn't get easier. He goes to get strawberries.

Brad Shreve:
He goes to get strawberries, gives Norman a bucket and sends him out on a quest to get more strawberries. And he gets lost. He doesn't know where he is. He's got to find the house, which is painful to watch. But even more painful to watch is he comes home and she makes fun of him because he came home without strawberries. And I don't remember what his excuse was, but he doesn't, he doesn't mention why because Charlie is there, the mailman. We meet Charlie and they have a conversation. Right, the mailman.

Brad Shreve:
And then when that's all over, he breaks down and tells her why he didn't have any strawberries. And that's the part that really hurts me because I know the character that he is, how painful that And his pride, how painful that must have been to admit, on top of everything else that he's dealing with, and meaning his mortality.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, and the, you know, the sound bites from On Golden Pond are many, and that scene is the famous, you're my knight in shining armor, you know. There's so many sound bites from On Golden Pond, which we'll hit, but that's when she consoles him, and it's so moving and touching, and you really get the sense that when he gets lost, there's such terror in— Fonda is so good in this movie. There's such terror in his eyes, and fear in his eyes. And, you know, we've all kind of, maybe in one way or another, like, turned down a road we didn't recognize, or been in a place where, like, wait a minute, where am I? Where— we get lost. I mean, that terror of being lost. So, can you imagine? That terror in a place you've been coming to for over 40 years, and suddenly things looking unfamiliar to you, the terror of that and getting deeper and deeper into that. And it's done so well because it really is, it's scary. And it's heartbreaking when he realizes, and then he's able to go back and he pretends like everything's okay.

Tony Maietta:
But then when he finally confesses, such a moving They have such great chemistry, the two of them, and it is hard to believe they'd never met each other. Yeah. And she's so comforting to him, and she's so loving to him. It's almost like Spencer Tracy, you know what I mean? It's almost like there's that shorthand they have as actors, and as characters, which is so moving in that scene. I love that scene. It's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. I love it when— so, it's Norman's 80th birthday, And Chelsea has been invited.

Tony Maietta:
Katharine Hepburn has invited Jane Fonda to come to celebrate. And she brings Dabney Coleman. I should use the characters' names, but I use the actors'. And they have the birthday scene, which is a wonderful scene. And you realize they bring the kid too. And what does he say about— he says, 80, that's old. The kid says, Billy Ray says to Norman, 80, that's old.

Brad Shreve:
And Norman said, you should see my father.

Tony Maietta:
And Billy Ray says, he's still alive? And Norman goes, no, but you should see him.

Brad Shreve:
Norman has such a—

Tony Maietta:
I love what a smartass. It does. And it does. And Norman is such a smartass. I mean, he's such a cantankerous old poop, as Katharine Hepburn said. He's such a smartass. And he meets that kid, he meets Billy Ray, you know, remark for remark, cutting remark for cutting remark. It's so Great.

Tony Maietta:
And that's what this movie is full of, that kind of wonderful humor. There's no sap in this movie. Those kind of remarks cut right through it. And that whole scene where they're playing Parcheesi is one of the scenes that I wanted to talk about.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, yeah.

Tony Maietta:
In the movie, everybody's playing Parcheesi except for Chelsea, except for Jane Fonda's character, who's sitting over the side. And it looks like she's sulking a bit. They say to her, why don't you play with us, Chelsea? And Norman, Henry Fonda, says, she doesn't like to lose. You know, and Chelsea says something to him about, you know, why do you like games? I mean, it's just very, very barbed dialogue between them. And you get the fact that this is not a healthy relationship.

Brad Shreve:
And actually, she says, I never understood why it was so important to you to beat everybody.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I mean, you get the competitiveness, and you get the unease between them. They just can't seem to meet. And while they were filming it, the camera was on Jane. It was her take, and she couldn't see her father's eyes. And she asked Mark Rydell, she said, can you put a light on my dad's eyes so I can see it? And she did her scene. So then the time came to turn around and do Henry's response to her. And she said to him, Dad, are you okay? Can you see my eyes? Do you need a light? And he goes, I don't need to see your eyes. I'm not that kind of actor.

Tony Maietta:
And Jane Fonda said, it was so— it was like all the air went out of the room. You know, but this is the way Henry Fonda was. Yeah. And she said, on one level, she was, of course, humiliated and devastated because her father just insulted her in front of a crew. But on the other level, she thought, this is so great for the scene, because this is exactly how Chelsea is feeling with her father.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
And apparently, after they were done, Hepburn came up to her and people had left. And she said she felt this arm on her shoulder. And she said, don't let that bother you. She said, they don't know that they're— he doesn't know that he hurt you. Spencer used to do things like that to me all the time. She said, he— I'd say, do you want me to be here if you're a close-up? And he'd say, no, I don't need you. She said, they don't know they're doing it. They don't know it.

Tony Maietta:
And she said that was really a wonderful moment between Hepburn and Fonda. But that was what— this is the kind of stuff that Fonda, Jane Fonda, was trying to work out with her father. You know, these kinds of things of this uncomfortable tension. And that scene is rife with that. You just, you get that level of— it's a very uncomfortable exchange between them.

Brad Shreve:
It is. And it really hits home. And I'm sure most of us can relate to a situation where everybody's having a good time, And somebody has a resentment or an anger and they cut right into it with a jab.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And it's, it's, everybody feels it like, damn it.

Tony Maietta:
No, it's true.

Brad Shreve:
It's just like, damn it. Couldn't they hold it? But they can't because they're so resentful or so angry or both.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's really an interesting study in familial relationships and trying to work Trying to work through him. That's what this whole movie is. And it's so wonderful that this property came along at a time when she was, you know, perfect for Henry Fonda at this time. That's why I don't know how anybody can begrudge— first of all, he does give an incredible performance. I don't know how anybody could absolutely ever begrudge Henry Fonda this Oscar. Also considering it was the only one he ever won, and then he died 5 months later.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. So, it was definitely— not only was it an overdue Oscar, considering the fact that, I mean, think about Young Abe Lincoln, Lincoln, The Grapes of Wrath, he's Tom Joad, for God's sake. Even Mr. Roberts, all the way up to the fact that he'd never won an Oscar. I love Henry Fonda. I wouldn't say that I'm a tremendous Henry Fonda fan. But I think he was a brilliant actor. And I don't think I've ever seen him as exposed as he is in this film, as moving as he is in in this film.

Tony Maietta:
And I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that this was a real— these real-life things were happening to him in his real life. The aging, the facing death, right?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I know he had to act older than he— he was one of these guys that was pretty well composed up until the end. So he did have to act older than he was. But yeah, he was playing his age and he was facing it at that time. What's really wonderful is this very uncomfortable scene, is soon followed by probably the, to me, the funniest scene in the movie with Norman and Bill.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, yes, yes. Talk, tell us about that.

Brad Shreve:
So I think Chelsea and, and her mom and—

Tony Maietta:
They're skinny dipping.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, that's right. They're skinny dipping. How in the world could I forget that? They're out skinny dipping. And so Norman—

Tony Maietta:
Wait, can I just say before you go, they're out skinny dipping, spur of the moment, skinny dipping. But yet Katharine Hepburn comes in in a robe with a wrap towel around her head. And I'm like, where did she get the robe and the towel? She was in her She keeps one handy over

Brad Shreve:
there. So it leaves Norman and Billy by themselves, and Billy wants to explain to Norm that he would like to share a room that evening with Chelsea. And Norman is just cruel. This was Norman playing with Bill's head and making him so uncomfortable.

Tony Maietta:
Totally playing with him.

Brad Shreve:
Making him so uncomfortable. Bill knows the whole time that Norman is playing him, at the same time, it's still incredibly uncomfortable. We'd like to sleep together. The 3 of you?

Tony Maietta:
The 3 of you?

Brad Shreve:
No, just the 2 of us. What's the young boy's name? Billy Ray?

Tony Maietta:
Billy Ray and Chelsea? Not Billy Ray and Chelsea. Yeah, he's totally playing with him. You get the idea, and that's what I love about this performance, is you get the idea what a pill Norman— what, can you imagine how difficult Norman would have been as Chelsea was growing up? Oh yes. When he was at full faculties, I mean, he was a professor, um, just one of those obnoxious academics who have to parse every single syllable and every single thing you say to try to make you feel less than, show them how— I mean, you get the idea of what I mean. Charming too, but what a real pill. Norman must have been.

Brad Shreve:
He would make you laugh. And I think in a different film, they would have had Chelsea make a comment like, you know, you're always coming out with your little quips. And it was so unnecessary. It was— you just felt it. Like you're just saying, you could see this was— and that was my feeling. I'm like, oh, this was Norman. This would have been difficult.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Funny, but difficult.

Tony Maietta:
You get the idea of what kind of man he was. And you also get the feeling of how How wonderful Ethel is, you know, and the fact that they have such a great, rich relationship still. And you get the idea of how she would keep him in check. You know, that's why— one reason why Hepburn's such brilliant casting for this, because not only do we have the— not only is she still, at this age, she was in her 70s, a beautiful woman, but you can see the vestiges of this incredible beauty she once was. And, you know, he was a good-looking guy too. So you really get the potency of their relationship, even at this late age in their relationship, even near the end of their lives. You get the love, you get the respect. She says it to him at one point, you're such a wonderful man.

Tony Maietta:
The only problem is, is I'm the only one that knows that. Yes. And so you get the richness and the backstory is just in— it's baked into this relationship. Even though they'd never met, even though they had never worked together as actors, they bring all of that with them and you realize who these characters are. It's an example of why— how great it is to have these actors and their backstories fill in the details for us and give us a relationship which is at its end, in essence, but is still so rich and vital. And lively and living.

Brad Shreve:
And the other thing I'll say about Norman's personality and the way he acted and his little quips is it made me think of this would be a college professor that you would love and hate simultaneously.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
Because he would be funny and he would not be kind. You know, he would not take anything from you.

Tony Maietta:
Well, just like Chelsea. And you would like, you would like die for his respect. You want his respect. She wants his respect, but she also wants his love. Can you imagine? you know, having a parent like that. Yeah. Who's— I mean, when she first, when she first gets there, he says, look at this fat girl. And it's the workout Jane Fonda.

Tony Maietta:
She ain't fat, believe me. She looks incredible. But that's what he does. Look at this fat girl. And you're just like, this is what she grew up with. So no wonder there's problems. I mean, he can be kind of a horrible person. But she's not helping the matters because, you know, that wonderful— well, we'll get to it— the wonderful scene where, you know, the whole boa, boa, boa, when Chelsea's so upset after the Parcheesi scene, you know, like, why does he— when is this son of a bitch ever gonna like me? When— and Ethel says to him, Hepburn says to her, look, he's 80 years old.

Tony Maietta:
He's got heart palpitations, high blood pressure. he gets confused. Just when do you expect this great relationship to happen, Chelsea? And that's so true. Sometimes, frequently, it is up to the younger generation to make the first move towards rectifying a relationship with the older generation. You know, we all— I think Jane Fonda said this. She said, if there's one thing I can tell people, it's don't let your parents die with unresolved things. Do everything you can to resolve issues with your parents, because once they're gone, That's it, folks. There's no resolving it.

Tony Maietta:
And this movie is such a great lesson in that, in the fact that it does take the younger generation, the kids, to approach the adults, if you will, to repair, to make those reparations and to, to close those relationships because the parents will be gone. Nothing you can do about it.

Brad Shreve:
Yep.

Tony Maietta:
But the scenes always astound me. So they leave Billy with with Norman and Ethel while they go off to Europe for a few weeks. And of course, yes, they become friends. They start to fish together. It's just so wonderful the way the relationship develops. But that scene at Purgatory Cove, when they're going looking for Walter, and it gets later and later, and you just know bad things are happening because, you know, it's cloudy out, it's dark, they shouldn't be in Purgatory Cove looking for this fish. The bottom of the lake is filled with rocks. It's so treacherous to go there.

Tony Maietta:
And when they're trying to get out, Billy, who has proven that he can drive the boat— Norman is out at the front of the boat. I can't think of what it's called. Stern? Aft? What's it called? Do you know? We've done this before.

Brad Shreve:
I come from a naval family, but I don't remember. So I'm—

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Anyway, he's on the front of the boat guiding him and the gear jams. He has— he gets in the wrong gear and the boat takes off and it hits a rock and Norman 80-year-old Norman Thayer Jr. goes flying into the water, and Billy goes in after him, and they end up clinging to a rock at night. Now, in reality, Mark Rydell said the water level of that where they were clinging onto the rock was only about knee deep. Yeah. So they— so as they cling to this rock, it's not like they're clinging in the middle of the ocean, so they could have stood up. they'd be fine.

Tony Maietta:
But still, you know, they both wore full wetsuits, but it was still an incredibly precarious scene for almost 80— I think Fonda was 80, or he was almost 80.

Brad Shreve:
He was almost 80.

Tony Maietta:
He was almost 80, for almost 80-year-old Henry Fonda to do. And he did it. There's no doubles here. Maybe there was a stunt person flying off the boat, but that's Henry Fonda clinging to that rock. at night in the cold in New Hampshire. And that scene always amazed me because I thought, what a brave— first of all, what an actor, and what a brave actor to do that. They didn't use a green screen.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
They didn't do any of that stuff. That is— that was a real shot of them clinging to the rocks. And then when Hepburn comes out and Hepburn sees them, and Katharine Hepburn Dives off the front of the boat into the water to go to them. And Mark Rydell said it was very important that there were no cuts. It was very important that people see that really was Katharine Hepburn diving off that boat and swimming to them. And that's an astounding— well, it was Katharine Hepburn. Everybody knew, you know, this woman, you know, up to the end almost, she was incredibly physically active. Phenomenal, phenomenal scene.

Tony Maietta:
No stunt person for her at all. It's an amazing scene. Nope. So I guess what I want to talk about, to me, I think probably the climax of the film, the most important scene, certainly the most important scene to Jane Fonda, is of course the confront— it's not really a confrontation, but the conversation between Chelsea And Norman when Jane comes back. So, Jane comes back, Chelsea comes back to pick up Billy. They've been in Europe, they got married. And she's decided that it's time for her to talk to her father, with her mother's urging. It's time for her to finally confront this dragon of a relationship that she's had.

Tony Maietta:
So, we have a special guest. We have a special guest. So, we have a special guest who's going to talk about that scene. But before we bring her on, Brad, what are your thoughts about that scene? That scene between Chelsea and Norman when they finally have the conversation about being friends?

Brad Shreve:
I would say it's one of the scenes that people probably remember as being sad, because it's not necessarily so sad. It's just, again, very uncomfortable, yet at the same time, very touching. So, there's a real mix of emotions there. Because it's so well done, because it's beautiful in the sense that you see them connecting. It's ugly in the sense that it's not the way that, you know, a child wants it to be, but it's going to be the best that they get.

Tony Maietta:
Right. It's perfectly imperfect, I think, is the best way to look at it. It's not this movie— you don't hear violins, you don't hear the music doesn't start, and there's— they embrace. It's it's very tentative and it's very imperfect, but it's something.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
It's like the backflip she does. It's not a perfect backflip, but she does a backflip. And Jane Fonda talked about she practiced that backflip over and over and over again because she was at first going to have a stunt person do it until Hepburn asked her, are you doing the backflip? And she's like, oh shit, yeah, I guess I'm doing the backflip. So she said that she practiced it for weeks and weeks And she finally did it, and it wasn't perfect. And she even says in the movie, she improv'd, it was lousy, but I did it. And that's the point. It's not the fact that it's perfect. It's the fact that you did it.

Tony Maietta:
So this scene was, as you can imagine, was incredibly important to Jane Fonda because it was her opportunity not only to do a great acting scene with her father, but hopefully maybe plant the seeds of repairing Their own personal relationship. So she was doing some on-life, on-set therapy here for herself. And she said she wanted to be so perfect for her father. And she said even when she read it, she would well up with tears. Even when she's just reading the scene, she would get very emotional. And she says that's a problem for actors, because 9 times out of 10, when you get so— when you're so moved by a scene just reading it, When it comes time to film it, you're going to be dry. And she said she was so present for her father and for all of his takes that when the time came for her to film her side with the cameras on her, it's the actor's nightmare. That's exactly what happened.

Tony Maietta:
She was dry. So I'm going to bring in our special guest to tell us about that experience.

Jane F Interview Clip:
Okay, now it's my turn in my big scene in the movie that means so much to me because of the personal part of it. And I turn and I'm dry. I am drier than a you-know-what. There's nothing. There's nothing. What am I gonna do? Where is Lee Strasberg now that I need him? What sense memory can I— what can I— all of a sudden songs that I usually can sing that will make— nothing was working. I was so scared. So they were lighting it, and I was waiting on the shore, and who shows up but Kate? She's not even supposed to be there that day.

Jane F Interview Clip:
How are things going, Jane? And I said, I'm set, I'm dry. Don't tell Dad. OK, the camera's ready. You know, it's one of those things that we wish everyone would drown for about a year and you wouldn't have to. But they were ready and the time was in. I was just so scared. And I said to Mark, I said, I'm going to turn my back to the camera and prepare. And when I turn around, then, you know, start to film, not having any idea what I was going to do.

Jane F Interview Clip:
So I turned my back to the camera. The boat is here. The bushes are here. I look up, and there is Kate, crouching in the bushes. Like this. It was mother to daughter. You can do it. You can do it.

Jane F Interview Clip:
Okay, come on. It was older actress to younger actress, and she's been there and she knows. And it was woman to woman, and she willed me with her eyes and her fists. She willed me into that scene.

Tony Maietta:
I just love the image of Katharine Hepburn crouching in a bush with her fists up saying, do it, do it. Such a— oh my God. It's such a beautiful, beautiful moment.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
And it worked. And it works. It works. And it's such a great scene. She gets through it. And then Jane Fonda, and I'm sure you know this. So, when she says, I just want to be your friend. And, you know, it's that pause, and then she reaches out and she touches Henry Fonda's arm.

Tony Maietta:
Which was an improv at that moment. They had not rehearsed that. And Henry Fonda hated improv. He was not that kind of actor. He didn't do that. He went by the script. He didn't do shit like that. She reached out and she touched him.

Tony Maietta:
And she said, and you can see in the film too, that he's kind of startled and he kind of pulls back, but he went with it and even teared up a little bit. And she said it was the most incredible moment between father and daughter. That she ever experienced. It's a beautiful thing. Beautiful.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. It's almost, to me, kind of uncomfortable to know that so much of it was real.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Comfortable and beautiful. A beautiful way to deal with it, but uncomfortable because I can just kind of feel like it probably was when they—

Tony Maietta:
Perfectly Imperfect.

Brad Shreve:
Yep, exactly.

Tony Maietta:
You know, Perfectly Imperfect. It's about the door being opened. It's not about necessarily everybody rushing through it. You know, it's a weird analogy, but anyway, I'm gonna go with it. It's just about the fact that the attempt has been made, the words have been said, and there is a catharsis that happens, which is so important. So important. Another scene I love is the very last scene. Do you know what I'm talking about? When he has his— the scare of the heart attack?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And you know, there's Moments where I think of that scene, I think, you know, that was kind of a cheat. They're making us think that they're gonna end with him dying. But it's also the fact that you can see in Ethel's face, Kate Hepburn's face, that the reality, and I'm sure not for the first time, that he's not gonna be around long.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, you know why that was? Apparently, according to Mark Rydell, Fonda's collapse— he goes to pick up a a box of— they're packing up, they're leaving Golden Pond, they're going back to Boston. I think they're from Boston or somewhere, you know, not in the lake. And they're getting ready to leave and she tells him not to pick up the box and he picks it up and he has an attack and he stumbles out into the porch and he drops the box and the dishes break. Well, apparently his collapse was so real that Rydell and Hepburn weren't sure if he was acting or not.

Brad Shreve:
Hmm.

Tony Maietta:
And Rydell is like, Is he— because the box was heavy. Is this Henry Fonda having an attack? Is this Norman Thayer having an attack? And he says he looked at Hepburn, and for a moment Hepburn didn't know what to do. She looked at Mark Rydell like, what, what, what's going on here? You know, is this— is this— and he said— and he just kind of motioned with her to go for it. Go with it. Go with it. Go with it. And that's why she looks so real. That's why that terror in her eye— she— the reality of— the fact that Norman Thayer Jr.

Tony Maietta:
might be dying right now, and that Henry Fonda might be dying right now. You can really read it in Hepburn's face. I think that's one of the most incredible scenes. And funny that you should say about him dying, because in Thompson's first draft of the play, Norman died at this moment.

Brad Shreve:
Hmm.

Tony Maietta:
And when he was— he wrote— was writing the screenplay, it was great. They let him write the screenplay, which is very rare to let a writer playwright write his own screenplay, but they did. He considered putting it back in. And then he thought, no, we— I don't want to do that. Let's give this audience the catharsis and the chance for these 2 to say goodbye to the lake one last time. Let them die off screen. Let them die off screen at Christmas time.

Brad Shreve:
Good move.

Tony Maietta:
Sometime. This is not the point. This is the point for the audience to have that final goodbye, to have the characters have that final goodbye. to Golden Pond, and then whatever happens later happens later. So, and they do. They go out, they say goodbye to the loons. Norman, they've come to say goodbye. I love her loon call.

Tony Maietta:
And, uh, that's how it ends. That's how it ends. God, it's a beautiful movie.

Brad Shreve:
It is a beautiful movie. And I do want to let people know, and it's something I wish that I had done, though I don't— I doubt I ever will, because if I come back to the States, it probably won't be highest on my list. I've always wanted to go to Squam Lake, Golden Pond, as they call it in the film, because if you look at pictures of it today, it is just as gorgeous.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And the dock that they used for the— in the film where they, they stop at, that restaurant is there, and it is called, named after the fish, Walter's Basin.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. And that gas, that store with the gas pump.

Brad Shreve:
It's right next door. Still there. Right next door.

Tony Maietta:
And that's Mark Rydell's son, by the way. Yeah. The blonde with the open shirt. But you're just like, oh, 1981.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Still there. The cottage is still there. Yeah, it's— I'm thinking on my next road trip, you know, I might take a little drive up there. That is so— well, not now, but when summer comes, Definitely, definitely, because it's definitely worth it. So,

Brad Shreve:
so should I go over how the film did?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, let's see. How, how did On Golden Pond perform when it was released on the public?

Brad Shreve:
Well, you, you gave the dollar figures— made for about, um, $15 million and made $119 million. So not too shabby. It was actually the number 2 film of the year, I believe. It was right after—

Tony Maietta:
Isn't that amazing?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, to think, because the number 1 film is Raiders of the Lost Ark. You couldn't find 2 different films, and the third film is Superman II. So you couldn't find 3—

Tony Maietta:
I think it was $7 million was— Um,

Brad Shreve:
actually, there's, there's 2 numbers floating around. I had to look,

Tony Maietta:
and

Brad Shreve:
I chose the one I saw the most, and it was only more by a little bit. So it's anybody's guess, but I, I went with the $15 million. Either way,

Tony Maietta:
it's $7 or either way, $119 million on investment. that small.

Brad Shreve:
Either way, they made over $100 million.

Tony Maietta:
Number 2 after Raiders of the Lost Ark. Think about that. A movie about 2 elderly people facing death. And that's what it made. Amazing.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And another interesting thing to me was, I noticed that The Four Seasons was made the same year. And I— because the whole time I'm watching the film, I'm like, you know, this and The Four Seasons both had such such relaxed music and it'd be nice if there were more films like this. And then lo and behold, I find out it was made the same year. It was a very mixed year for movies. I mean, we had Raiders, we had Golden Pond, Superman II, you had— then you had Arthur. I don't think that's a film that stands up well.

Tony Maietta:
Oh my God, don't say that! We've been having such a nice time, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
I don't know. I loved Arthur. Well, you know how many times I've seen Arthur? I've seen Arthur more times than I can count. I'm just guessing. I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
You're talking about the funny drunk? Yes. Yes, I get the funny drunk.

Brad Shreve:
I don't know if it holds up today.

Tony Maietta:
We'll talk about Arthur some other time.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, yeah, we will talk about it. So I don't mean to rain on your parade there. I don't know that. And also Time Bandits. So a real mix of movies there. So I'm glad that they did so well. Critics loved it, of course, and an aggregate of 44 critic scores came to 93%. Uh, the average audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, over 10,000 reviews, it came to 87.

Brad Shreve:
Should be higher, but I'll take an 87. And then, uh, IMDb, 7.7 out of 10 stars. As far as the Oscars go, it was nominated for 10 awards and won 3. Now, the 3 it won for, Best Actor, Henry Fonda, And, you know, I gotta say, I'm not— I love Henry Fonda. I always have. And he did beautiful in this film. But it really is tough to me to juggle whether it should have been him or Paul Newman in Absence of Malice.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I mean, come on. Let's think about that.

Brad Shreve:
The others were easy. But yeah, that's it. To me, it's almost like a toss-up. Kate won for Best Actress. She went up against Diane Keaton, Marcia Mason, Susan Sarandon, and Meryl Streep. Also won Best Adapted Screenplay. And, um,

Tony Maietta:
Ernest Thompson.

Brad Shreve:
Of those 10 nominations, one was Best Supporting Actress for Jane Fonda. And I'm gonna say this wasn't as great as I thought Henry and Kate were. This wasn't her strongest role, and maybe it could have been the discomfort of the role.

Tony Maietta:
Uh, well, it's, it's, you know, it's the role. It's how it's written. I think she's, I think she's wonderful. I think she's great. I don't think she's, I don't think she deserved an Oscar for it, but I'm not gonna take away her nomination. Oh, no. Yeah, no, no. She definitely should have been nominated.

Brad Shreve:
She lost to Maureen Stapleton in Reds, which

Tony Maietta:
is

Brad Shreve:
understandable. And Mark Rydell did get nominated for Best Director, but did not win.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. So it was picture— the nominations were Picture, Director, Actor, Actress, Supporting Actress, Screenplay, Cinematography, Film Editing, Original Score, Best Sound. And Brad's right, it won 3: Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Adapted Now, I don't agree with Brad. I think that Henry Fonda absolutely deserved to win it, not just because he had never won before, but because I think the performance, although I do love Paul Newman in Absence of Malice, I think the performance warrants it. Henry Fonda was, of course, too ill to attend the awards. So, Fonda accepted it— his daughter, Jane Fonda, accepted it for him and gave a very, very moving speech. and took it right to her father immediately. Here's something funny.

Tony Maietta:
So this was Hepburn's 4th Oscar. 4th. First one, 1933, and then she had to wait 34 years, as we said, and then she won. Boom, boom, boom. And so Fonda said the next day she called up Hepburn to congratulate her, and she said the first words out of Katharine Hepburn's mouth were not hello, were You'll never catch me now! Because Jane Fonda had already won 2 Oscars, and if she'd won this, this would have been 3. Hepburn had 3 Oscars. So now that Hepburn had 4 Oscars and Fonda still just had 2, she'd never catch her now, which is so Katharine Hepburn. It makes me funny.

Tony Maietta:
The woman never showed up for an Oscar ceremony that she was nominated for. And yet she knew how many Oscars she had, and she knew damn well that Fonda was never going to catch up with her now.

Brad Shreve:
I think we should also add that one of the nominations, as you mentioned, was Best Original Score. And it kind of didn't have a chance because it was up against Dune, Dune, Dune, Dune, Dune, Dune, Chariots of Fire. So,

Tony Maietta:
well, yeah,

Brad Shreve:
every time there's a slow-mo—

Tony Maietta:
I think it's beautiful.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, it's beautiful. I actually enjoy it more.

Tony Maietta:
Such a beautiful score, the opening scene with the loons, and the— it's just a gorgeous, gorgeous score. We will have it on our Spotify playlist, I promise. Yes. So, I think we've really talked already about the legacy of this film, and the things it says about facing mortality in yourself and in your family members, and how important it is not to have unfinished business with your family members, because you never know when someone is going to leave us. And this, you know, this film so beautifully illustrates how important those conversations are, and how important it is to just cherish the time you have with someone, and to cherish the moments you have in front of you, and not worry about the past, and not be obsessed with what the future will happen, because we're only guaranteed one. That's in front of us. And I think this film so beautifully demonstrates that. Did you know there was a television adaption of this, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
No, I did not. I'm afraid to ask.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's kind of interesting. So, since the movie was such a tremendous success, as you can imagine, there's a play. So, this play is done all over the place. Now, Ernest Thompson never had to work a day in his life again. Who cares if he wasn't a successful actor. He didn't need it. In fact, he lives up in New Hampshire now. He bought a place just, yeah, just like that.

Brad Shreve:
You gotta drive up and see him when you go up there.

Tony Maietta:
Um, not that I know him. I just, I know that's what happened to him. So done all over the place. So there was a television adaption, a live television adaption in 2001 of the play starring, I can't even say it, starring Julie Andrews.

Brad Shreve:
What?

Tony Maietta:
And Christopher Plummer.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I don't know what—

Tony Maietta:
Maria and the Captain reunited in New Hampshire for this. Now, I shouldn't laugh because I didn't see it. I have to confess, I never saw this television version of On Golden Pond with Julie Andrews and Christopher Plummer. However, I do know that it ranked last in its time slot. when it aired. So, that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I haven't seen it. So, I guess I'll bite my tongue as well. But I sure can't imagine it.

Tony Maietta:
No, I can't either.

Brad Shreve:
Actually, I can imagine it. Maybe that's the problem.

Tony Maietta:
She's just so crisp. Ethel is— she's just crisp. Crisp and no nonsense. So, Brad, that was on Golden Pond. Is there anything else you want to say about the film that we didn't mention, or the podcast, or anything else?

Brad Shreve:
I think I've said all I'd like to say about the film. I didn't give my official recommendation, but obviously, I love this film and definitely give it a, give it a watch. It's a great lazy day Sunday, and then you can just put on the music and go about your day in the afternoon, maybe clean house, or just chill on the couch.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
As far as what else I have to say, we hope if you've listened this long that you will rate and review our podcast. I saw that actually, 80% of you are listening to this podcast on the phone, which makes it easy because there's an app right in front of you. Just click and let others know that you enjoy the podcast so they can enjoy it as well. Also, we'd love to hear from you. We have a list of recommendations coming up from people as well as some that we want to read. You can contact us either through our email at goinghollywoodpod@gmail.com. Or there in your show notes, you can click a link to either text us or leave a voicemail. And if you leave a voicemail, we may play you online, so on, on show.

Tony Maietta:
We have a handful of new reviews, emails, uh, that we're going to be reading very shortly, so stay tuned for that. I wanted to mention too that Brad and I are taking a week off, uh, so we will not have a first run episode to drop next week. But that being said, since we're doing that, we've also decided to extend the season. Yes, because we usually stop in early December and we were talking about it and we thought, you know what, let's just finish out the year. So we're going to have an episode, God willing, all the way up through the end of the year. And our season finale near New Year's will feature a very special Guests that people have been clamoring for us to have on again.

Brad Shreve:
And I also want to say our next—

Tony Maietta:
So get them ready, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
Our next episode, when we return from our one-week break, is one that I have talked about with Tony about since we very first decided to have this podcast, our first brainstorming. And many of our listeners have requested it as well. So hang tight. It'll be a lot of fun.

Tony Maietta:
It's going to be a lot of fun. It's gonna— we'll be here, so. Well, yo poop, I guess that was On Golden Pond. And, uh, as much as I hate to wrap it up, I guess I have just one more thing left to say. But as usual, it's not boa boa boa either. Uh, I don't want to say it, so let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve:
No, Tony. Let's say goodbye.

Tony Maietta:
This one was for you, Dom. Goodbye, everybody.