Cold Open And Show Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I stayed out of the way as long as your wife was around. She was good for him. But what now? You with your great demeanor. Canabody you offering him?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

She failed to realize Jenny that we have a very good relationship, Matt and I. We were doing very well before you came along, and we'll do a damn sight better after you've gone.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Boy, you know where to hit, don't you? I'm gonna tell you something.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

He needs me. And I want him! He's not yours to give him back to me a long time ago. I need him. I love him.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I want him a new one! He's not a child! Oh my god, he's a child!

SPEAKER_00 0:48

He's my son. And I'm going to kill him.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

There's just one thing we seem to both have forgotten. He's my son, too.

Tony Maietta 1:07

Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maeta.

Brad Shreve 1:10

And I'm Brad Freeb, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta 1:14

We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve 1:20

And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta 1:25

As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

But I've hung on to every bit of rubbish there is to hang on to in life. And I've thrown all the good bits away.

Brad Shreve 1:37

Tony, Tony, where'd you go? Uh it's time to record.

Tony Maietta 1:42

You know. Brad, do you think you can make me record? You can get me there, sure. But but can you make me record? I record for myself. I record when I want to, whenever I want to. Just hang on to that. Well, I've hung on to every bit of rubbish there is to hang on to in life. And I've thrown all the good bits away.

Brad Shreve 2:04

We're gonna be late.

Tony Maietta 2:06

I don't care. I don't know why I have us do these things. I don't either. It always sounds so good in my head. Totally off the cuff. Totally off the cuff. I don't care. It always sounds so good when in my head, and then we're gonna do it. I'm like, oh, that sounds so lame. Anyway.

Brad Shreve 2:28

Well, I don't have an acting background other than high school drama class. So and I forgot my lines. Oh, that's all right. We did one scene twice because I forgot my lines.

Tony Maietta 2:37

I must take two. Anyway, hey everybody. So we are that really lame beginning was just getting us into um our movie of today that we're gonna be talking about. It's another one of our swan songs. This is literally a swan song, uh, because it's I could go on singing from United Artists in 1963, starring the one, the only, Miss Judy Garland.

Brad Shreve 3:04

And

Storm Update And Listener Request

Brad Shreve 3:05

before we begin, normally we save comments from our listeners till the end, but I do want to do one first because it's very sweet. I got a lot of messages from people that heard about the the storms and disaster we had locally, and I appreciate it. This is uh a listener who moved to Spain in July from the USA. Her name is Christina Weller. Not only did she say that she saw that our town in the news and wanted to make sure everything was okay, um, she also wanted to give a suggestion. So I figured I'll bring up since she did both of those. Uh, first of all, uh my town was devastated in some areas. It's very sad news. I fortunately live in a power town that I walked out the door and I thought that storm wasn't so bad. So I'm fine. Uh, and most of my neighbors are fine, but uh uh it's sad times for my town. So we got that going on. So thank you for asking. Uh the the movie she requested is an Ann Baxter film that is set in Spain. Oh. And she's she said it is a British film, not Hollywood. We don't care if it's a good film. It's a 1958 Suspense Thriller that I've never heard of, but Suspense Thriller gets my attention. It's called Chase a Crooked Shadow. Are you familiar with that, Tony?

Tony Maietta 4:16

I've heard of it. I've I don't think I've ever seen it.

Brad Shreve 4:19

I is it available? I don't know. So, Christina, we don't even know if it's available. Just want to bring up, we will discuss it and maybe we'll have it on a later episode.

Tony Maietta 4:27

So what a nice, first of all, what a nice thing to do uh to reach out to you. That is so very sweet. Thank you, Christina, for being a caring individual. I didn't even reach out to him. With I did, I sent him a text. Hey, are you okay? Yes, we did. But that's a really nice way to uh to get our attention too. So thank you. Thank you for that. That's very sweet. That's very sweet.

Brad Shreve 4:48

And we have had other requests, we will get to those, but I want to bring that one up especially.

Why This Garland Finale Lands

Tony Maietta 4:52

So back to our movie of today, uh, I could go on singing. This is again part of our Swan Song series in which we discuss stars, performers, final films. Now, this is interesting in the fact that this was indeed technically Judy Garland's last film, but as we all know, if we've listened to this podcast, it only turns out to be that way because she was fired from Valley of the Dolls. So actually, Valley of the Dolls, had she been able to complete Valley of the Dolls, that would have been her last film. But I tell you what, I think she dodged a bullet. If you're gonna go out, go out on this one. I think this one is so perfect for her to go out on in so many respects. Uh the title alone is just perfect for Judy Garland. Um, but the fact that it's basically a Roman a clef of Judy Garland's life, it really is kind of like a really great cinema verite take on Judy's life. So, Brad, I want to ask you a question. Had you okay, had you ever seen, before I said, before I, you know, we talked about doing swan songs, had you ever seen this before?

Brad Shreve 6:09

No, I had never seen of this movie or heard of this movie. And when we get to um not box office, but how it's done and that sort of thing, uh, I'm not the only one. No, I know. It's very strange. Well, in fact, I will tell you, I I will tell you, I don't think I'll tell you why. We won't, I won't go into the the numbers, but when you look for reviews and that sort of thing, there's not a whole lot of info on this film.

Tony Maietta 6:32

Which is kind of crazy because I know for Garland files, for Garland fanatics, it is a very, as you can imagine, it's a very big film because this is basically Judy Garland in concert. But unlike the Judy Garland show, this is in color, and this is also has a story, and so this is really a glimpse of Judy Garland at the height of her career performing, and it also has a very soap opera story which puts it all together, and it's definitely Judy at her one of her best, and uh, she would have been lost in Valley of the Dolls.

Brad Shreve 7:09

So I agree with you this that she dodged a bullet.

Tony Maietta 7:11

Yeah, I'm glad this is her last one. I think somewhere in the back of her mind she thought, Judes, let's not go out on Valley of the Dolls, let's go out on this, because you this is just so much more appropriate. So I can go on singing. Well we'll we'll talk about the you know, it's it's resonance in Judy's life. But Brad, do you want to go a little bit about do you want to go into the background? Uh not the background, that's my job. Do you want to talk about uh the cast and the production and uh everything of this? Opus, please.

Brad Shreve 7:42

Sure.

Cast And The Story Setup

Brad Shreve 7:43

Um uh it's a small cast as a rule. Um it starred obviously Judy Garland. She plays Jenny Bowman. She's an international singing star who um, for the most part, she's lonely and uh she wants to have a relationship with her estranged son, and he's estranged because she gave him up and he doesn't even know she exists.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

Yeah.

Brad Shreve 8:03

Uh it also has uh Dirk Bog Bogard as David David Don. Uh he is a uh physician in London and her former lover, and the father of the son, who raised his son as his adopted son. So you can see this is very much days of our lives. Then we have Matt Don, who I think is the star of this film. That kid blew me away. He is so incredibly charming.

SPEAKER_05 8:31

Yeah.

Brad Shreve 8:31

Uh Gregory Phillips played him. He didn't have much of a career. He had about a decade of film work and he did some music work, even worked with George Harrison on the Beatles, but then just vanished. There's there's no record anywhere of whatever happened to him. He plays The Sun, and then uh Jack Klugman, he is one of the few secondary characters, and uh he and um Aileen McMahon both are secondary characters, and they don't have a whole lot to do. Uh Jack is uh Jenny's manager, and then Aileen McMahon is Ida, who is her assistant who is also her friend, and that pretty much wraps up the cast. The story uh I pretty much said it when I described what Judy Garland's character is. She is this international singer who goes back to her ex and wants to have um some kind of relationship, or just on the premise that she only wants to see him. Yes, it goes a little more than that, and and that's really what the movie's about.

Tony Maietta 9:33

Well, that's her foot in the door. That's her foot in the door, but she keeps going further and further and further later. You know, come see me at the palladium, and then let's spend the night, spend the night with me, and we'll have another day, and then I'll take you to Paris. So, yeah, it's basically uh Judy Garland plays a singer like Judy Garland, who was playing the palladium in London like Judy Garland, uh, but unlike Judy Garland, she has a son that she gave up when he was a baby, so she could have her career. And now she's getting to the point where she's like, uh, I'm kind of unfulfilled. Hello, there's a little tiny, another little tiny existential crisis. I'm really unfulfilled. What can I do to fulfill me? Oh, remember that kid I gave up when he was a when he was a little baby. I want him back in my life. So it's basically about, as Brad said, it's incre it's a soap opera. It's deeply felt soap opera, mostly because of Judy, and mostly because of, I

Judy’s Power Even For Nonfans

Tony Maietta 10:30

agree with you. Gregory Phillips, who plays Matt, her son, is the most charming. What is it about the Brits, particularly British children, like like the like the Banks children and Mary Poppins? He is so heartbreaking. He's so sweet, he's so kind. He even looks a little bit like her. He's got the cute little pug nose and he's little freckles. He's so heartbreaking in this. You you're you're you're you just want to put your arms around this. This little tiny this little kid, he's so affecting. And so is she, by the way. I think it's kind of sad that, as you said, that you didn't really know about this film, and maybe some people really don't know about it, because it's a British film, first of all, and no, it didn't set the box office on fire. But she's so good in this. I think it's probably her second greatest film performance after a star is born. I know a lot of people also agree with that, and it's her, as I said before, it's her only substantial film role, starring film role, uh, of her comeback in the 60s, of when she was really, really at the height of her powers and the height of her career. Um, so I it's unfortunate, but now you know about it. So now you people can enjoy it. And if you are a Judy fan, this is your film. I guess, yeah. I guess that's the thing, too. That you have to say that too. I think that if you're not a Judy Garland fan, you don't want to watch this movie. First of all, I don't know who's not a Judy Garland fan, but if you're not, you're not going to enjoy this movie because it's all Judy. It's all Judy, aka Jenny Bowman. Um, oh, also in the cast, I wanted to point out you mentioned uh there are three cameos in this film. Yes, one of which is Judy's music director at this time, Mort Lindsay. He is also Jenny's music director in the film, and he appeared on the Judy Garland show, and he was her he was her music director during the early 60s. And who are the other two cameos?

Brad Shreve 12:26

You said you have her children, Lorna and Joe. I don't think Liza was in it. She was pretty young, but Lorna and Joe. No, we would have you wouldn't have missed Liza if Liza was in this. Yes, Lorna. I hey I got go ahead. I gotta tell you, I've been re-watching um Arrested Development. Yeah, and I forget sometimes. I watch this movie and I'm like, did I accidentally turn on Arrested Development? They look so much alike. It's amazing to me.

Tony Maietta 12:52

She doesn't have vertigo in this, though. Um, she does. Lorna and Joe, very young. I think Lorna was like 11, and Joe was maybe nine. Um, I can't do the math really quickly in my head right now, but yeah, and they're in there's a scene on a boat, and they're in the background. They're right behind her in the boat. It's so funny. So they are they are make little cameos. And this film was designed for her by producers Saul Chaplin and Lawrence Turnman, and it was directed by Ronald Neim. And it is a British production, and this really appealed to Judy when they presented it to her because she loved the idea of this kind of, as I said, this kind of cinema verite approach to her life, what she was what she experienced in her life performing at the palladium, and basically the ups and downs and the emptiness of a performer's life. So, on that, taking the plot out of it and the fact that it's kind of a hackneyed soap opera plot about this woman trying to get make a connection with the son, she gave up. What did you think about that? What did you think about seeing Judy in color uh at the height of her career in the early 60s, Brad?

Brad Shreve 14:03

Well, okay, I'm gonna I am not a Judy fan, and when I say I'm not a Judy fan, I don't mean I dislike Judy at all. Not in the least. I enjoy her music. I would never say I want to put on a Judy album, and I would never say I want to uh put on a Judy movie. That's what I mean. So please don't get angry at me, folks. I do enjoy Judy as an actress and as a singer. Does that make sense?

Tony Maietta 14:24

Yeah, yeah.

Brad Shreve 14:25

She just she's not high on my list. So I I'm not I'm not a uh Judy gay. So I think she was astounding in this film. I uh uh as far as her emotions, I feel like it allowed her. What is it her best performance? It's hard to say. I think this film allowed her to uh show emotions that she's never been able to show before. Uh there are scenes that uh she's gut wrenching. So it it's it is a Judy Garland vehicle. It's it's if you're a Judy fan, you do not want to miss this movie. Her her the music choices are not my type of music, but they were beautiful. Uh they were a little slow for me, but they were beautiful. Uh they certainly um they were more to me what I consider like cocktail music, background music. Really? Even when she's belting out by myself? Yes, because uh uh none of those songs are songs that I would sit and say, I want to sit and listen to this. But there aren't many. I I uh that's um my husband and I very much differ. To me, music is background, him, he's the kind that will just sit and just listen. It's not my thing. So uh um if it's slower than normal, then it if it tends to be slower even when it's she's belting out. I I I'm kind of rambling, but I'm trying to get across of why uh it's it's not my thing, but I'm that doesn't imply that I don't think that she's a star. I and I don't think she deserves the attention she gets. I hope that's coming across. Yeah, no, um I'm trying to qualify my feelings. So you're not a fanatic. You're not a fanatic. I'm not a fanatic. I am not a fanatic, but I still enjoyed it, and I certainly was impressed with her acting. I certainly felt her emotion. It I feel like it was coming from the heart. I think there was enough of her in here because a lot of it did not seem like acting in any way. Of course, that's good acting anyway. Yeah, so I I think it's beautiful in that sense. And I'll go ahead and say it. I would never have watched that. This film, I was like waiting for something to happen. I was like, it hell I had to watch it a second time because the first time I couldn't, it wouldn't hold my attention.

Tony Maietta 16:27

Oh wow, okay. Even when she's belting out those songs, really? Wow, that's I'm not talking about the songs, I'm talking about the story. Like, like, like well, the reason really, and I think most people agree the consensus is the reason the highlights of this film are the opportunity to pretend you're in uh if you were not able to go to Carnegie Hall concert in April of 1961 and see what people call the greatest night in show business, see her Carnegie Hall concert, this is kind of the opportunity to do that because the opening scene particular of her concert is geared so much to replicate Carnegie Hall. Um, so I think people love that. They love the fact that this is an opportunity to see Garland in performance, even though she's not playing Judy Garland. You know, come on, Jenny Bowman, Judy Garland, Tomato Tomato, really. At the palladium. I mean, where Judy had some of her biggest successes. So they love that. And they also love the one scene, which we of course will talk about, which we tried very badly to replicate at the beginning of this podcast episode. And I might cut that. We might have to cut that brat because it's so bad. No, we're leaving it. Just as a cautionary tale not to do that again. You always make me cut your flubs and not mine. We're leaving this one in. It wasn't the flubs, I just think my performance was up to it. Well, that was a flub. Oh, okay. So it's for that scene. It's for the scene, it's for the cinema verite aspects. I'm gonna say that one more time. If anybody has a drinking game, when they listen to this, take a drink every time Tony says cinema verite. It's very much that's why people watch this. It's for the the cinema verite aspects and also for the musical, the sequences, the musical numbers, because I happen to think they are buffalo pow sock. I think the songs she sings in this, which are modeled so much on her regular songs, and many of them became her standards that she would perform throughout the rest of her career, I think it's just fabulous. I love it, I love it, I love it.

Brad Shreve 18:27

But I will say, even my most beloved musicians and my most beloved bands, the ones that I love the most, I would never go see a movie to see them. Yeah. No, it's that's the that's why it didn't it's I didn't go see, I didn't watch the movie to see a Judy Got it Garland concert. So that's why I'm not being a mega fan, I'm like, oh yeah, good music.

Tony Maietta 18:50

It's interesting that they didn't just do a really high-quality concert movie. I don't maybe they weren't really doing I think this is before concert movies, you know. So this is the concert movie. Yeah. And the plot is is yeah, it the plot is really silly, but it does allow her some moments of true, uh really wonderful, wonderful acting. You can't even call it acting. She's just being, she's just being Judy Garland, aka Jenny Bowman. She's so yeah, affecting and she's so natural, and it's just she's so moving and she's funny, and she's all those things we love about Judy.

From The Lonely Stage To Garland

Tony Maietta 19:24

So the film originated as a 1958 television drama called The Lonely Stage. And it was written by Robert Dozier, and it starred Mary Astor. Now, there are uh versions of I Could Go On Singing, particularly from the UK, that were called The Lonely Stage, because in the UK this film was called The Lonely Stage. I like that title. Yeah, I actually like I Could Go On Singing because it tells you this is a musical with Judy Garland. So it was called The Lonely Stage, and the producers, Stuart Miller and Lawrence Terman, always wanted to work with Judy. They wanted to adapt this material into a theatrical feature specifically for Judy. And at this point, Judy was on the second year of her huge comeback, as we talked about before. She had almost died. They was told she'd never, never work again. She was 160 pounds and 4'11. They drained quarts and quarts of liquid out of her body and said she'd be a semi-invalid the rest of her life. And she was like, oh yeah. And she had a huge comeback, which eventually led to the Judy Garland show down the road. So this is the middle of that comeback. She's on her way. So she had done Judgment at Nuremberg and got an Oscar nomination. And then she did a film with Bert Lancaster called A Child Is Waiting. And then this came up. So she was initially very, very intrigued, very interested. She was really excited about it because she liked the idea of the aspects of her real life that were in this character. She knew she could relate to this character. And she loved the fact that she was at the Palladium because she loved the palladium. And then she read the script. Once she was already on location, and she told her co-star Dirk Bogard, I can't play this crap.

Brad Shreve 21:21

And Dirk wasn't that pleased with it either, as I understand.

Tony Maietta 21:24

No, so here's the lesson to actors: read the script before you agree to do a movie. I can't play this crap. And apparently she locked herself in the bathroom, which that's Judy for you. Um, but Dirk Bogart, who is a very good friend of hers, at least before they started filming, was a very good friend of hers, said, Look, we can improve this, we'll revise dialogue, we'll we'll write it ourselves on the fly. Nobody's gonna say no to you, Judy. And that's what they did. So it's pretty amazing. Those scenes in this movie, which are really affecting, particularly the hospital scene, and I think the scene when they first meet again. were pretty much rewritten by Judy Garland and Dirk Bogart in their own voices. I think that's the reason why they have such a great um there's there's such a realism to them. There's such an immediacy to them. Don't you think so? With the dialogue in particular of these things?

Brad Shreve 22:15

They seem they definitely had chemistry. They seemed like they connected. I won't argue that in the least. Yeah. It's uh I the one thing about Dirk, if I close if you close your eyes you'll think you listen to James Mason.

Tony Maietta 22:28

Yeah well it's that British. It's that very very British. Very vetty fetty vetty yeah Bogart was one of Britain's most prominent screen actors. And as I said they were friends. He was personally admired by Judy. He had gotten a lot of uh fame in the 50s as a romantic leading man and then he did a movie called Victim in 1961 which was one of the very first depictions of homosexuality on screen sympathetic sympathetic I guess we should say he played a closeted barrister who's being who's being blackmailed. And that was that really got him attention he also did a movie called The Servant he did Death in Venice um so he was a very very accomplished actor many people also say although he never came out that he was indeed a gay man. So she loved the fact that she was working with Dirk Bogart and they were able to craft this screenplay kind of on the fly and Ronald Neim who was a very good director he directed uh The Horse's mouth and Tunes of Glory and Judy liked him and he liked Judy initially but she just pretty much ran roughshod over all of it. It's it's kind of sad because it you know I don't think it shows up on the screen but this was a very very turbulent shoot as you can imagine she was pulling every single one of her old tricks showing up late not showing up at all she was also going through a very very difficult custody battle with Sid Luft her husband over her kids so it was a very very turbulent shoot but I don't believe that that shows in the finished product do you think it does what are your ideas about that do you think it suffers for that I was hoping you were going to ask me because after the movie ended and I started doing a little bit of reading about it and I read that all that was going on that she was so well known for I was astonished because it did not show.

Brad Shreve 24:24

Yeah

Turbulent Shoot And Edith Head Looks

Brad Shreve 24:25

it doesn't it did not show at all I was really surprised because I thought okay this this was probably a stable point during her career and uh so no it did not show.

Tony Maietta 24:35

Yeah it was what it was probably one of the most turbulent shoots ever and she would just switch on a dime her mood swing she was under a lot of stress it doesn't show in the film she's in my she's luminous in this film she looks fantastic. The costumes were done by Edith Head who you know for anybody who knows classic Hollywood Edith Head one of the biggies you know she did the All About Eve dress that Margot Channing wears and All About Eve Sunset Boulevard one of the biggies. Judy loved her I don't think she did Judy any favors in this movie. I think that's one of the things there are some shots where Judy looks absolutely beautiful and other ones where you're like oh my God did you not look in the mirror before you walked out because there's she just looks this was a period when she was losing a lot of weight very fast until she got down to like 90 pounds which is how much she weighed on the Judy Garland show only a few months later and she's so she's in between that so she really needed um she needed better costumes there's one particularly the by myself it's an orange dress and you're just like oh Judy oh dear what did Edith Head do to you she did her no favors in this but there's other moments where she looked as a role though I thought she looked great.

Brad Shreve 25:46

I thought I she looked more mature. Yes definitely her outfits were definitely more mature and I thought she looked very smart in them.

Tony Maietta 25:54

Well you know she was very in Edith Head's defense she does there are some whenever she has a jacket you know or something that that she looks fantastic. And in Edith Head's defense the great Bob Mackey who we recently lost and he you know he worked on the Judy Garland show he was the assistant costumer on the Judy Garland show said many times she had the most difficult figure to dress because she was four foot ten four foot eleven um she had a big bust no waist and all legs he said her legs pretty much started under her bust so she had no waist and she was really really difficult to dress and Edith had did the best she could in this considering everything that was going on but that being said she does look beautiful in many scenes but other scenes you're just like oh God why did you do that to

Concert Numbers That Serve Story

Tony Maietta 26:45

her? That's my opinion that's my opinion so I want to talk about some of these scenes the particularly the meta qualities of this because that's the reason to watch this movie. If you are a Judy Garland fan and even if you're not just to get a taste of the power of this woman as a performer it's a great movie to watch I particularly love the concert scenes the first one because I mean it is designed just like Judy at Carnegie Hall. Even overture Mort Lindsay comes out what'd you think of that overture Brad Mort Lindsay comes out and he does it's just like you're you're at a Judy Garland concert isn't it yeah and I didn't uh really look up what we were going to be watching. You you told me about it I did a little bit and when it started I thought okay so this is mostly going to be her on stage I I knew it wasn't just going to be Judy in concert but I thought maybe it was just going to be her in concert throughout most of the film with touches of little uh scenes in between uh because of the way it was introduced yeah no it's it's it's got that plot the the very moving plot though she's so moving in the in the story even though it's very soap operay pretty soon into the movie she's met her son she's invited him to come see her at the palladium and Dirk Bogart's like okay I guess so um and then he cancels and she's crestfallen and then the boy shows up which is really sweet he came in without his father father had to go away so she sees her opportunity here so she she tells him to go sit down and it starts and Mortlandsey comes out and does this overture that's just like the Carnegie Hall overture and it builds and builds and builds and we follow Judy backstage we follow Jenny backstage and so when she's backstage and the orchestra the uh overture is coming to its climax and Brad you know she claps her hands and she goes go go you know she's getting herself worked up well in reality Judy used to stand backstage at that point and say fuck them fuck them fuck them fuck them and she'd like build herself up fuck them fuck them fuck them fuck them and then she'd get together and she'd just be calm as can be and walk on stage uh she sings Hello Bluebird a wonderful great up tempo you know song like uh I feel a song coming on she has four songs here and a couple of them she performed live yeah the ballad It Never Was You which is gorgeous it's just one shot and it just comes in on her. It's one take and this is what's so brilliant about this woman as a performer one take and it's just a and she's doing it live and it's just glorious I know you don't like your it's not your necessarily your cup of tea but what I like about these songs is it's they're not just filler songs. The songs really do comment on what's going on in the plot. Yes did you happen to catch that yes I did.

Brad Shreve 29:40

Yeah definitely definitely were not just tossed in I I did appreciate that there was um I did I didn't feel that way at all and and did jump out at me that this was not like okay well we're gonna we have to throw Judy in singing right now.

Tony Maietta 29:55

Yeah no it they definitely they definitely comment on it kind of like a pre-cabaret thing there's a Liza illusion where they they it's not like in your face but they do comment on like because the first number is up tempo she just met her son so she's very upbeat hello bluebird and then uh it never was you is very intimate because she's getting to know her son and spend time with him because the father Dirk Bogart's away so she pretty much has kidnapped him not really but he's with her for a couple days and they're getting to know each other and it's a beautiful ballad love song very quiet very still and then the father comes back Dirk Bogart comes back and they have an argument and the Matt, the son overhears them hears Judy confess that he's her son too he overhears it.

Jenny’s Manipulation And The Fallout

Tony Maietta 30:46

So that's the big crisis moment.

Brad Shreve 30:48

And we talked about how she said that she just wanted to see the son got her foot in the door didn't talk about how it was her manipulation that made it continue because what she would do is she'd say oh Matt let's go do this and then she'd go to the the the father after they'd already had the discussion which of course puts him in a bad spot oh Matt and I want to do this. Yeah and then she'd do it again and do it again despite her promise to him that she would not do it. And of course she doesn't ask for permission first because of course he would say no. So she's very manipulative in this film. Yeah. But you don't come across but not in an evil way but charming desperation way.

Tony Maietta 31:26

Like the woman really was like the woman was herself. You know there's a point where Dirk Bogart says of Jenny about Jen about her character you know she gives more love than anybody can possibly give but she asks for more back that more than anyone can possibly give. And an incredible line. The best to me that was the best line in the film. And well that's straight out of you know Judy Garland 101. I mean that's what everybody says about she gives more love than any human can possibly give but she also requires more in return. And doing things like this like doing something and then asking permission for it later you know that kind of those kind of shenanigans are what drove people crazy about Judy and also made people love her so much because of the charm because of the love that she gave so after he finds out she sings by myself in a horrible horrible orange dress but it's a really great scene because everything's orange the background of the curtain's orange the dress is orange or is it red? I'm sorry it's red not orange. Hello it's red because it's because it's anger because they're at a crisis moment. So the background is red her dress is red incredible version of By Myself she sang it for the rest of her life and then the boy decides he doesn't want to go with her she invited him to Paris he calls her she's crestfallen and she says after the she does a they have a phone call which is a beautiful phone call heart wrenching heart wrenching she hangs up the phone and she says Ida get me my black dress I'm going out which I think is code for any gay man who's upset and wants to go out and forget give me my black dress I'm going out and she does and the next shot is of an emergency room that says casualties.

The Hospital Scene Strips It Bare

Tony Maietta 33:18

I love cats I thought for sure we were going to see on her deathbed it's so great because they're just plugging into the legend of Judy casualties and sure enough she's in an emergency room but she didn't know D. She's drunk she had some some she's so funny in it she has some martinis which are which were all gasoline uh and she fell down and sprained her ankle uh and she's got a great fur coat on and so this is the scene this is the scene everybody talks about this is the hospital scene this is the most cinema verite you can get in this movie because it's basically the story of what Judy Garland feels her life is what she goes through in her life her loneliness her desperation her dependence upon performing it's truly like this really raw emotional scene so let's talk about it did had you ever seen any of the clips of this scene it's about 10 minutes this scene ever seen it before no I'd never seen this thing this scene I will say it was um when you watch this scene you realize you're not watching Jenny Bowman you're watching Judy Garland and normally I would say that's a negative an actor because you don't want to be thrown out of reality like oh I'm watching Judy playing somebody but it is impossible no if you know anything about Judy Garland it is impossible for you to watch this film and say this is Judy talking about Judy this is yeah you just can't and she is more vulnerable than I've ever seen her before it she just yes this is the story of her life basically you know this is this is how she feels about who she is as a person and everything that performing has taken from her uh and everything that she feels required to give that's what I love when he says uh she's doesn't want to go she's drunk but she's also got a performance at the palladium and she didn't want to go she's like I'm not going and he says it's a sellout and she goes I'm always a sellout and he goes they're waiting for you and she goes I don't care I mean it's it's so raw it's so funny it's so real you know she talks about feeling like uh she's not a pastry she's not a that everybody can just roll out and get a big bite of her and the whole thing that Brad and I were doing about you know I sing I do a podcast for myself for my own pleasure she talks about that with singing she's like I sing when I want to you can't make me sing it's almost like she's talking to Louie B. Mayer and just going back to MGM and saying these people who made her perform when she was sick, when she wasn't well that got her hooked on the pills and all that stuff she's calling out to them and saying I run my life now. It's my show it's not yours. So it's really raw and really emotional and really moving. But at the end of the day, you know the pull of that performing is too great. And she does go back to the palladium the audience he's been waiting like an hour and I love this Jack Klugman says to her um you know he's furious he's not going to go through this anymore and he says something along the lines of um if you don't have respect for an audience anymore I am truly I am truly profoundly sorry for you or something like that. He just he basically rips her a new one. That little scene made me wish we had more Jack Klugman in the film. Right he's so good. He's so good in this he's just he's like speaking truth to power here you know and she but she just looks at him after he's basically ripped her a new one and she just leans up and kisses him and walks off. And you're just like that's the charm of the woman you know she's she knows and she goes on the audience is you know yelling and screaming where you been where you been all this stuff and she she starts to sing a few notes of I could go on singing and she has them in the palm of her hand and David who is uh Dirk Bogard she asks him she said can you stay with me you know because she's you know she was drunk and she's feeling very shaky and he says I I I'll stay until you can stand on your own two feet. And so during the song she looks over and he's standing in the wings and then she continues in the song and she's getting into the song and then she looks again and he's gone and that's where she goes on singing. That's where she picks up with the with the second verse and she just belts that thing out and that's the end of the movie. You know she's alone on the stage on the lonely stage. Yeah but as long as she can go on singing she'll be okay. So that's

Alone Onstage And What It Means

Tony Maietta 38:10

it. That's the movie.

Brad Shreve 38:11

I was really sad at the end because I thought you know he's been single for a while we haven't we really didn't know when his wife died but it seemed like it had been some time ago they clearly loved each other they said they loved each other and the son adored her why wouldn't they just get married or have a relationship and she can do her long distance thing and they have their little flings when she comes back to town.

Tony Maietta 38:35

I think because he knew what a what a tricky proposition it is to be involved with her on any level. I mean when they talk about their past you know you get the idea that she he did ask her to marry him and she said no my career is more important. You just get the idea of the how what a dangerous proposition it is to love this woman and let this woman in your life because she'll do exactly what he said she'll give more love but she'll take more than anybody can possibly give and I think he knew for his child's sake he didn't want his child to grow up into Joey Luft maybe he didn't he knew for he knew for his child's sake it was not a good thing. He needs stability his mother just died the woman he thought was his mother or believes his mother had just died um he needs stability he needs a loving home and he knew though she's exciting and though she's fun she's not she's not what he needs I really think that was that's the thought behind it. That's the way I think of it.

Brad Shreve 39:37

Yeah I mean you're you're correct it's certainly his personality doesn't seem like the type that he would uh want to have that type of life um it just to me it made sense but it would have been out of character it would have it would have been out of character and she has to end up you know it's one of those great endings of all these movies it's like the end of Funny Girl.

Tony Maietta 39:59

Barbara ends up on the stage alone singing this movie. Judy ends up alone maybe it's just the gay singers uh the gay icon singers ends up on the stage alone singing it's all part of the sacrifice of being a great artist I think that's what they're saying and yeah it's real hackneat and yeah it's real cliche but I think it's affecting it always affects me the first time I saw it I was like wow I was just blown away by by the talent of course but just by the way it all wraps up so neatly and she's on her own she's on her own.

Brad Shreve 40:36

I didn't hate that I didn't hate this movie. I don't I don't imply that but I certainly uh wasn't engrossed by it it it it took forever I'm the the it opens up for the first eight minutes of the two of them it the premise is she shows up she says she's not feeling well and and um so she goes to him as a physician which he knows from the beginning that's not necessarily true and they just have this conversation and it's a very low key conversation even though the what they're talking about is somewhat intense and I'm like I don't know these two people why do I care and I'm thinking if it wasn't Judy he wouldn't care at all because we don't and it's not that it was a bad scene it's like we were plopped in the middle of something and I don't know these people why do I care their conversation wasn't that compelling. Yeah and I really didn't I I was like when is this movie going to happen? And it didn't start to me until the young man came in when Matt and Matt and her relationship um was uh charming enough and I felt so much love between them that uh it grabbed me and held me but even that was like I'm like I I kept through the whole movie I'm like where is this going? Where where are we going with this? So it's it's it's not a bad film but I would never have rushed to see it.

Tony Maietta 41:58

No it's you know it's a little sliver of a movie really I mean the reason to see it is to see her to see her at this particular point in her career and because of its autobiographical resonances you know it's because of the fact that so much of this calls out to her real life. No she didn't have a child she gave up but the whole idea of the emptiness that she feels even though she's got you know you can't take an audience home with you that whole cliche she's loved and yet she's lonely and it it just feeds into that cliche and she's so the reason I watch this movie is for I I I love their relationship too. I think it's a touching touching relationship between the two of them but it's for her it's to see her be funny to see her be I agree dramatic to see her sing to see her scream to see her cry. I mean she just you realize what an incredibly gifted actress this woman was singing aside take out the singing part that she was an incredible actress when she sang as an actress this woman was so undervalued you know she didn't get them she didn't get the opportunities at MGM because she was their great singing star. Okay when you sing like Judy Garland people want you to sing but it totally discounts the fact that this woman was also a fucking kick ass actress and could be more real and more subtle and more intimate than some of the air quote great actresses of the golden age I mean come on she was so she's so immediate in everything that she does you really believe it's happening to her for the first time and even though it wasn't she's acting it's that's what I love. I love that I love the fact that it's got these autobiographical resonances to her real life but to see this woman actually act you know and and and take apart and and really really make it real on her own I don't for one second Believe I'm watching an actress. I feel like I'm watching Judah Garland in a story. That's the way I feel about it.

Brad Shreve 44:05

Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with you. I would agree with you.

Tony Maietta 44:08

So that's how we feel about it, Brad. How did the critics feel about it? You want to talk about how this movie performed?

Box Office Context And Reviews

Brad Shreve 44:15

Well, I'm going to start a little differently because I mentioned that uh it's hard to find anything about this film, and there's a reason. I'm going to go over some, I'm going to go three different lists. First one is going to be some of the top box office successes of 1963. We had Cleopatra, How the West Was Ron. It's a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad world, uh, Son of Flever, Bye Bye Birdie, The Great Escape. You kind of get an idea this was a big year for films. Yeah, we've talked about a couple of them, yeah, or we mentioned them.

Tony Maietta 44:43

Yeah, yeah.

Brad Shreve 44:44

Yeah, yeah. So it's understandable why uh this kind of got lost in all of that. Uh as far as the film went, um it was really hard to find numbers, and the only budget number I could find is was on a Judy Garland website. So I hesitate to give it, but it's the only number I could find. Every listing that I normally go to said zero. So the budget uh that I have is 1.4 million, and I could find nothing on box office receipts.

Tony Maietta 45:13

Interesting. Well, it it made a minuscule. Anything I've ever seen about this movie, it made a minuscule amount of money because it was such a small budget. I mean, a million dollars? Come on.

Brad Shreve 45:22

Yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty small. Yeah. Though this this sets were fine. I mean, if the uh it was beautiful to look at, and you're looking at London mostly in the English countryside.

Tony Maietta 45:34

Yeah, that that helicopter that helicopter ride they take had to be the most expensive thing in the whole movie because you get an aerial aerial tour of London with Matt and her stand-in. Because that's so obviously not her. I'm not getting in that helicopter.

Brad Shreve 45:52

Lorna! As far as critic commentary, critics kind of felt like the way I did. They just kind of were like, nobody seemed to think it was a bad film. They just thought it was a film. Yeah. That's pretty much, but they did praise Judy. Uh, when it came to Rotten Tomatoes, uh, their critic aggregate score is 100%, but only seven listings. I I didn't look to see which ones there were. I did not uh go and dig for other ones. So uh, but that's really unusual for them to only have an aggregate of only seven critic scores. Audience score, there's less than a thousand reviews, and that's at 75%. IMDB is very similar. It's rare to find uh a score that has is done by less than 2,000 people, but this is one of them, and it got a 6.9 out of 10. So it didn't do as well as I uh on IMDB.

Tony Maietta 46:42

Yeah. It's it's hard, it's so hard to tell how this film did. It it gives I I really feel like it is almost like an asterisk, which is a shame because it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be, because it's got so many wonderful things, particularly if you're a Judy Garland fan. Um it truly, it truly is. I think it has some of her finest dramatic moments. And it's what's really great is is that you know it shows this is this is this is as I said before, this is the kind of dramatic chops this woman had that she never got to show enough. And it's really nice that at this point in her career, she was able to be so emotionally moving. This this is such a melodrama. This could be so hackneyed and so syrupy. And it's not because of her. She has she has such moments of truth in this film, and a lot of it is because of the fact this character is based on her, but such moments of truth and such moments of real emotion that I don't I don't know how you can't be affected by this film, even if you're not a Judy Garland fanatic. I mean, her intensity, her emotional intensity is just it's palpable. You can feel it. I agree, and I was affected by it. So I think it's a really, you know, obviously she didn't, when we're talking about Swan Songs here, the the first the last one we did was, of course, to be or not to be with the wonderful uh Carol Lombard, who died before that film was released. Judy lived for another six years after this. Uh she just didn't she just didn't make another movie. Uh, as we said, she she got canned from Valley of the Dolls, thank God. But she also had her TV show, which we've talked about, which happened not long after this. Uh, and she did concerts for another six years. So it's great that this isn't like I could go on singing and breathing and barely breathing. I mean, she's a powerhouse in this movie. So I love that. I love that you really get the effect of her power, and I think it is an absolutely fitting career ender. Swan song complete. I actually agree. I agree with that. Well, Brad, um, do you have anything else you want to say about uh the film or the podcast or anything else?

Listener Messages And Closing

Brad Shreve 48:54

I started the podcast by sharing what a listener shared with us, and uh we like to do that, and we love to hear from you. So if you would like to reach out to us and just give us a comment, or we are thrilled when we get recommendations, you can do that through our email, which is goinghollywoodpod at gmail.com, or there in the show notes is a button to click to leave us uh either a voicemail or you can just send us a text message and uh we may read those on the air. When we certainly take into consideration any recommendations you give. And if you really want to make us thrilled, rate and review this podcast. You can do that on Apple, Spotify, and most likely wherever you get this podcast. And YouTube.

Tony Maietta 49:41

Don't forget. We can you can all oh yes, YouTube you can also listen to us on YouTube as our as our wonderful friend of Canada does. Um, I I feel like I shouldn't say housekeeping when I when I tell you to do that, because it's not housekeeping, because we really appreciate it, folks. We really, we, we truly, truly do. Um just love the fact that you're so present with us in these adventures that we have. If you could only see what goes on behind the curtain, I don't know if you've missed that. But we really, really appreciate it, always, always so.

Brad Shreve 50:13

As we always say, we don't get paid to do this. You are a payment. You're a payment.

Tony Maietta 50:19

Thank you so much. Well, Brad, I guess that was uh I could go on singing. And frankly, I can't go on podcasting because I'm too tired. So I only have one thing left to say. I can't be spread so thin. Um, I only have one thing left to say, but I don't want to say it. So I don't like saying it. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve 50:44

No, let's say goodbye.

Tony Maietta 50:46

Goodbye, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

I'm always a sellout.