Cold Open And High Hopes

Brad Shreve 0:14

Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maeta. And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies. We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too. And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter. As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood. Brad, I have to ask you a question. Okay, and I'll be ready with an answer. Just what makes that little old ant think he can move that rubber tree plant? Everybody knows an ant can't move a rubber tree plant, but he's got what, Brad? High hopes. You're supposed to say a hernia, because that's what she said. But yes, yes, I'll accept that. I will accept that. Sorry, that song started playing in my head. He does have high hopes. He has high hopes. And I have high

Why Laverne And Shirley Matters

Brad Shreve 1:22

hopes that this episode will go well. Because we're talking, we are taking on quite a chunk here, ladies and gentlemen. Actually, we are doing our first two-part episode of this season. Kind of late for us to be tackling our first two-parter, but we had to because what we were talking about today, if you didn't get it from that cute little opening we just did, is indeed Laverne and Shirley. Isn't that fantastic? We are celebrating, and we're only talking about Laverne and Shirley. We are celebrating Laverne and Shirley's 50th birthday. It aired, we're a little late. It aired on first aired on January 27th, 1976. I'm very excited, Brad. I'm excited, except for this makes me feel so fucking old. This is what makes you feel old. It's been 50 years. I know, I know. This was one of the most difficult episodes to prepare for. And listener has nothing to do with watching these episodes. We've had all kinds of technical issues in this show. It's not easy to find anywhere in streaming, and so we had to be selective, but it was worth it. I think so. I think so. You know, it was this is one of those this is like when we did Bewitched, you know, that I hadn't really watched Laverne and Shirley in a very long time. And then going back and watching these episodes, first of all, talk about difficult to pick. I can't even go there. But going back there and spending time in Milwaukee with Miss DeFazio and Miss Feeney and their assortment of oddball friends, it was so wonderful. It was just, it was, I was just bathed, a warm bath of nostalgia over the past few weeks, revisiting the show and remembering why I loved it so much as a kid. How how how much freaking fun it actually is to watch. This actually wasn't hard for me to pick episodes, and the reason is I unlike you own this series, I don't remember these episodes from way back. I was I was a huge the Vernon Shirley fan, but I haven't watched it in decades. Yeah. So I'm going by very weak memory of okay, I remember this part in this episode, and I remember this part in this episode, and I remember that particular scene was funny, and I hope the entire episode was as funny as I remember. And there's really only one here I chose, and it's not it's not bad in any way. It just wasn't as funny as I recall, and we'll talk about it. But um it it was it was delightful. Yeah, you know, I well, I had the same instance, like I think I sent you an email of one of your episodes or a text message when I was watching one of your episodes is oh my god, that's one of my favorite lines, and I could never remember what episode it was from, and it's from this episode. So when we get to it, I'll tell you. But I had the same reaction. I remembered scenes. I remembered Shirley teaching Laverne to drive on the sofa in their apartment. I remembered, you know, the earthquake when they first get to California. So I remembered little snippets, but there were some episodes that I thought when we decided we were going to do Laverne and Shirley, absolutely must, must, must talk about because to me they're not only exemplary of the excellence of this show when it was really firing on all cylinders, but exemplary of what great television is. I I truly feel that way about Laverne and Shirley. I think it truly in a different way, just it's right up there with the Mary Tyler Moore show, Taxi Cheers, as when it's hot, when it was hitting, you really couldn't touch it in these two actresses. What do you

Gary Marshall And Selling Out TV

Brad Shreve 4:58

think? I agree. And I I was gonna hold off on my Gary Marshall tangent, but I'm gonna go there because it really emphasize what you just talked about. You know, I wish I could say that Gary Marshall was a talentless hack, but his his background and his history after these sitcoms proves that he was not. He was an incredibly talented man from the Dick Van Dyke show, The Odd Couple, the first two seasons of Happy Days. But he sold out. The man sold out. You think so? Oh my god, look what happened to Happy Days. A great series for two seasons. Well, Happy Days. I mean, but I don't I wouldn't call I wouldn't call Pretty Woman or Beaches a seller. He redeemed himself after these sitcoms. But when it comes to television, the first two seasons of Happy Days, I think were great. Yeah, they were it was a slower show, it was a wholesome show to a degree, uh, even though they touched on some subjects. But then he sold out with the whole let's give the audience more of what made them laugh. Yeah, let's get whatever they reacted to, let's really throw it in their face. And a lot of people blame the return to the studio audience, and I say that's bullshit because all in the family had a studio audience. And the only negative in a show with a studio audience is the actors have to pause to wait for the audience to stop laughing. And that's okay, that happens, it's just like watching a play. But when the audience goes into these over-the-top hysterics, or when they applaud like crazy, every time a fucking character walks out on stage, it's like, oh my god. So he went to this great show. Um there's a reason for my tangent here. Yeah, he went to what I consider a really great show with Happy Days, with a great looking set, and a great cast, great character development, and then it turned into the Fonzie show. And this and the sets that were no longer didn't even look realistic. And all the characters were terrible characters. And uh to me it ruined Happy Days. And here's what he did with he did the same thing with Blanchy Blanchy's Beauties. You're bringing up Blansky's Beauties, really? Because I'm bringing up what garbage he turned out after he turned when he decided to go for the dollar rather than art. Yeah. So here's what he did with Laverne and Shirley. This is this is it's gonna sound like I'm trashing this show, and actually is the opposite. He took that same formula with Laverne and Shirley. He brought the studio audience in to act crazy whenever somebody, even uh even a guest who shows up that you've never even seen before, they go crazy when the guest walks out. So he brought in the plots. He has background characters that I think are very uninteresting. Frank DeFazio, I don't give a shit about. Edna, I I what is her the actress's name? I love her. Betty Garrett. You don't like Betty Garrett? I love Betty Garrett. She was fabulous on All in the Family. They move her to Laverne and Shirley, and she even she said she had nothing to do. She admitted that later. She'd like she'd glad she was on the show, but she had nothing to do. So she was kind of a nothing character. Carmine, don't even get me started on Carmine. I absolutely hate his character. Well, let's what? Let's let's wait, wait, let's let's first of all, you're you haven't even introduced the cast yet. You don't even know these. But anyway, so let so anyway. To me, just like Happy Days, you have characters that are cartoons, they're not interesting, the background characters. You have the studio on screen, crazy. The sets look terrible. Their apartment looked good, but every time they left the apartment, it was always a cheese-looking set. But but because of the incredible talent of these two women, yeah, and the hysterical setups, and we yeah, we're gonna compare it to Lucy Nethel, you can't help it. Yeah, the hysterical setups, this show worked despite his best effort. To make it not work, the same garbage. Well, okay. Yes, to make it work for radiance only. I I see your opinion. I think there's a lot of holes in that opinion. But uh, but I agree with you. I feel that Gary Marshall was an incredibly talented, talented man. Um, I love some of his films after this. I think his sister is even more talented, and I think what's amazing about Laverne and Shirley is nobody knew that because for so long Penny Marshall was the actress who was Gary Marshall's sister, and then suddenly Gary Marshall became Penny Marshall's brother. And Penny Marshall then going on to direct films like Big and Jumpin' Jack Flash and Awakenings for Christ's sake, Robert De Niro and Robin Williams. Give me a break. Fantastic. But I agree with you with the actresses. And hold on a moment. I also, but I don't know, we didn't talk about Michael McKean and Dave Landers. We will don't go into that yet, because I also think they're brilliant. But what you say about Gary Marshall is interesting, you know, because we're gonna have a lot of Lucy moments, folks, in these two episodes, by the way. Because one of Gary Marshall's first jobs was as a writer on the Lucy show. And it was really totally in his brain that he was going to give the make the lessons, take the lessons he got from Lucy O'Ball and from working on the Lucy show and creating a show that was very much Lucy and Ethel. He was just so lucky that his sister was phenomenally talented at physical comedy and that Cindy Williams matched her step for step. So we're talking about Laverne and Shirley. But let me let me just clarify again, though. I I think you misunderstood what I was first saying. I wasn't saying that Marshall was not talented. Like I said, everything he did before these changes happened proved that he was. And then later in his movies, etc., he proved he still was talented. I'm saying he sold out for the network. No, I agree. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. I agree with you to a certain extent about Happy Days, too. But let's talk about Laverne and Shirley. So because we're doing a two-parter here, folks, and already, I'm really glad we're doing a two-parter because already we haven't even started talking yet. Um might be a three-parter. What show are we talking about again? So uh Laverne and Shirley aired on ABC from January 27th, 1976 to May 10th, 1983.

Meet The Cast And Characters

Brad Shreve 11:16

And Brad, would you like to introduce the cast of Laverne and Shirley? I would love to introduce this cast because it's got some great folks in it. First of all, as we were talking about, Penny Marshall, talented beyond belief. Cindy Williams, who I really did not remember as being all that who do they play? Please, who do they play? Penny Marshall is Laverne. You can spot her because she has the L on her chest. She does. That one's the one that says Penny Marshall. The other one is Cindy Williams who plays Shirley. And I sometimes think Shirley kind of got overshadowed by uh Penny Marshall, but I watch these episodes and I'm like, wow. Yeah. She was great. She had more depth than Laverne. She did not allow it. I mean, imagine this was a Marshall family production. I mean, come on. And you're, you know, you're the other titular character here, and you're fighting for your time on air. Cindy Williams, brilliant, brilliant comedic actress. As Shirley Wilhelmina Feeney. I love her middle name, Wilhelmina. And then we had uh Michael McKeon, a very talented uh actor comedian. He played Lenny. David Lander, who I I he could be equally talented. I've never really liked the characters he's played, but he plays Squiggy, who everybody loved. Then we have Eddie Mecca as Carmine Ragusa, Phil Foster, longtime actor who we've seen billions of times as Frank DiFazio, Laverne's father, and the great Betty Garrett, who to Tony almost fainted because he thought I didn't like her. I love Betty Garrett, as landlady Edna Babish, who is an incredibly talented woman whose role unfortunately did not give her a lot to do. No, it's not. And that's the main ones. We have later ones. We have other people that came and went, and uh people that were more in the later seasons, which we'll touch on. I agree with you that she's absolutely wasted as Edna Babish. It's uh it's a nothing role. You're like, why did you leave all in the family? And but that's what she did. Um, yes, so I I just want to point out that yes, this we are doing a two-part episode. And like with all of our two-part episodes, there's a natural break. And that's why we're doing them. Because as everybody knows, the jump the shark moment for Laverne and Shirley was when they packed up and left Milwaukee and moved to Hollywood. I just don't under what was it about the 60s and 70s? These characters, Lucy did it, they did it on My Three Sons. What is it about moving to Hollywood? I don't get it. They thought that would suddenly fix the problems with the show. It's like when people want to have kids because they're fighting and they think it'll save their marriage. Doesn't work. Moving to Hollywood never saves a show. But that's that's for our part two, the Hollywood era. I'm uh curious. I'd like to hear don't people get tired of everything being in New York and in California? Yeah. What about Middleman? It's so refreshing when a show is not. Well, that's what was so wonderful about the original premise of Laverne and Shirley is it highlighted an area. What other show is about Milwaukee other than Happy Days? What other show? And you know, being having been to Milwaukee several times, it's a charming, charming city. It's like Chicago in a dryer. It's like somebody put Chicago in a dryer and shrunk it. And it's it's Milwaukee, but it's a charming city and it's full of all these wonderful ethnic characters. And why you and also another reason why, and we'll get to this in the second part, when they move them to California, you're destroying the premise because the premise of Lauren and Shirley is the fact that they're underdogs, they're they're low, low, low on the social totem pole. But when you move them to beautiful, sunny Southern California, they're already no longer that. You know what I mean? In people's minds, people who live in Southern California don't have a lot of problems because there's sunshine all the time. And we all know that's not true, but that's the that's the thought behind it. So moving them to California just it made no sense. But we'll get to that. We'll get to that. You know, it may have worked if they got there and really and learned, like the rest of us, that Southern California isn't what Hollywood has made it look like, but that would have been a whole different show anyway. So I want to throw out I will have but does this show did make America ask the question why does everyone in Milwaukee have New York accents? Well, they covered their asses on that because the Defazios were originally from New York, and that's when they moved to Milwaukee. So they did cover their asses, but yes, you're like, why does but why does Laverne have a Bronx accent? Well, because it's Penny Marshall and Penny Marshall lived in the Bronx accent. Yeah, but you also had Carmine and you had Squiggy and Shirley for the first few episodes of the first season, by the way. Cindy Williams had a strange New York accent. I think I have tidbits I'm gonna throw out there throughout it, and I think my first tidbit's going to be you know, despite the fact that the show ran for eight years and was number one for two out of those eight years, and then in the top ten, except when it fell out, it only received one Emmy nomination in eight years. Did you know that? No, I didn't. Doesn't surprise me, but I did know one Emmy nomination in eight years, and that was in 1979 for best costumes. Now, I'm sorry, but throw throw Cindy Williams and Penny Marshall a bone here academy. I mean, it's just ridiculous. These are brilliantly gifted comedic actresses. You can't get one. I'm kind of stunned that Cindy Williams didn't get at least one Emmy nomination in this show. But she didn't. Nobody did. Nobody did. It's very sad. My guess, and you you would probably know more this more than I do. My guess is it's a show that uh uh the ratings proved it. This was a show that people watched, but certain people didn't want to admit they liked it. Well, yes, it was a family show. You know what I mean? It wasn't it didn't have the pedigree all of ABC shows at this time, and ABC was the number one network because they had happy days in Laverne and Shirley, and that show whose name we will not mention with the three people living together, two men and a woman, uh two women and a man. Um, but they were audience hits. They were, you know, ABC was number one at this time, which was quite a feat for ABC, but they were also very, very, very dismissed by the intelligentsia and the uh maybe not the academics, but the intelligentsia in Hollywood in particular just looked their down, looked down their noses at Laverne and Shirley. So um, so we'll talk about these episodes, but should we go into the background of the episodes? Or do you want to tell people what Laverne Shirley is about in essence?

Premise And Blue Collar Heroines

Brad Shreve 17:58

Why don't we do that? Yes, I I will because you pretty much said it. It is about two uh working, I'll say working girls, because that would have been the term used in the 50s and 60s, two working girls that work for uh a brewery comp brewing company called Shots Brewery, and they work in the bottle capping department. And they're they're blue-collar women uh who are striving to do better, whether that's doing it on their own, uh frequently it has to do with meeting the right man, uh, whatever. They dream, uh they want to make their dreams true for me and you. It's very true. And that really is what it's about. It is, you're absolutely right. And they are up until they moved to California, they are probably one of the best TV shows, I think, that really makes you feel like these are two people that work in a factory. It's about the indomitability of the human spirit, basically. That's what Laverne and Shirley is really about. And believe it or not, there this was really the first instance of blue collar, other than on the family, of blue collar heroines being shown on TV. Think about it. Most of the, you know, Marion Rhoda, definitely not blue collar. Lucy and Ethel, definitely not blue collar. So this was really one of the very first. Now we have Roseanne, we have uh we had a bunch of things to point to, but this was really the first time which took a sympathetic look at working women, blue-collar working women, and in this comedy format. And that was what was appealing to Gary Marshall. And it's interesting, you know, before Laverne and Shirley became, before Penny Marshall and Cindy Williams became Laverne and Shirley, they knew each other. They were friends, they were collaborators, and they were struggling actresses living in Hollywood. So it's kind of it's nice that they have that backstory together as real people, that they then come together for this show, because it is actually because of the fact that Penny Marshall knew Cindy Williams and suggested Cindy Williams to play this part, which began on Happy Days. But I'm gonna get to that in a minute, but just a little bit

From Happy Days To Spinoff

Brad Shreve 20:10

about how this all came about. According to Gary Marshall, this really came about because his mother was always nagging him to get a job for his sister. Get Penny a job, get Penny a job, get Penny a job, because these were they were all the Marshall family was all in the industry, and they were a TV industry family, and Gary began his career as a writer. He later developed uh the odd couple, and of course, happy days. Uh their sister Ronnie worked in casting. Their father was an executive later at Paramount, but Penny was always the odd Penny, if you will. Penny always turned up, and people didn't have a lot of confidence in Penny's gifts. And so Gary, you know, would throw her bones constantly. She was on uh the odd The Odd Couple in 1971. She played Myrna, she did a show called Paul Sand and Friends and Lovers, which was canceled. She uh auditioned for a role on a show called All in the Family for the role of Gloria Stivik. She didn't get that part, but she knew the guy who ended up playing Mike. And who's that, Brad? Uh a guy named Rob Reiner, I believe it was. Exactly. You may remember him. You might remember Rob Reiner. We talked about him not that long ago. Um, and so Penny married Rob Reiner, and they were a couple. And what happened was that Gary needed two actresses for an episode of Happy Days. He wanted uh working class young women who would go on a double date with Richie and the Fonds. So he called Penny and Cindy, who were still writing together at this time. They're working on a project for Frances Ford Coppola, actually, and said, Would you guys like to come on Happy Days and and play some girls who uh who who would date the fleet? As they said it. Definitely not. Laverna cheerleader became. And they're like, sure, why not? It'll be fun. That was their that was their take on it. Yeah, let's do it. Why not? It's a one-off. It'll be a fun thing because they were good friends and they would do this together. Now you watched the guest spot in Happy Days, didn't you, Brad? Yes. I well I I remember it distinctly when it first aired. And uh I'll get into that. But I also watched the clip that is on YouTube where it's not the full episode. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find that anywhere. But I watched a little clip when they first walk out, and boy, they were just like they were on the TV series. Especially Shirley. He's being incredibly facetious here. Because they're not. Again, he described these characters as girls who would air quotes date the fleet. And it's funny, like almost prostitutes, basically. And it's funny because this was actually inspired by a real incident in Gary Marshall's life. Did you know this? When when he was in the army, he went on a double date. And while he was on the double date, another girl approached his date and they started to get into an argument. And then they started to scream at each other. And then they got into an actual fist fight. And she's like, here, hold my coat. And they went at it. And that was the that was the genesis of the characters of Laverne and Shirley on Happy Days. That because they go in the bathroom and they fight. They have a physical fight. So yeah, they're they're nowhere near the dainty uh virgins that appeared on Laverne and Shirley later. Well, what were your ideas? Well, they they fought constantly on the on Laverne and Shirley. They just I I don't recall. I'm certain there were times it got physical, but certainly not like it was on Happy Days. No, they were a little classier on Laverne and Shirley. They were a little classier. Well, what were your thoughts on them and happy days? Well, you know, here's the reason I remember it. And I uh you know, I was very young when it came out. Um and the reason I remember it is after that episode, which I thought was funny, later when I heard that they were created who knows where I got probably in the TV guide back then is probably where I read it that a series was being created based on these characters. And my thought was, how can they do a series based on those two characters? Because they were they were there wasn't much depth to them because they were walk-on characters, they they played exactly what they should have been. But I'm like, based on that, like how can you do a series? Well, of course, they changed them up a little bit, they were still at the very core who they were, more Laverne than Shirley was, but um yeah, that's why I distinctly remember it. They were good time girls, they were good time girls, basically. They were definitely good time girls, and Shirley almost seemed like she had a mental problem. She was so clingy to Richie, and uh uh but boy, she she uh was not uh demure, that's for sure. Well, Cindy Williams claimed that when they originally started filming, they walked on both with cigarettes and chewing gum. And the director yelled, cut, you can't have cigarettes in the family hour. Get rid of the cigarettes. So she had the idea that Shirley was a chain smoker and she was always chewing gum. But they were both, yes, they were both kind of classless, good time girls on happy days. But here's the key was was that the audience loved them. And their chemistry, because they were good friends in real life and they worked together, they were colleagues in real life, their chemistry just jumped off the screen. You can still see that. These women are so wonderful together. They are totally Lucy and Ethel, completely, completely, completely. That kind of chemistry, that kind of reading each other's minds, completely. So that so the audience is, so they love that. And Gary Marshall said that Fred Silverman, who was now running ABC, said to him one day at a meeting, you got any ideas for spin-offs? And Gary thought immediately about the chemistry between his sister and Cindy Williams. But they realized that they had to basically not only class them up to make them the lead of a sitcom, they'd have to re-virginalize them. So that's that was the key to getting these characters on the family viewing hour was to re-re-virginalize them and turn them into the Laverne and Shirley that we know. That didn't happen immediately, and you can kind of see that in the first few episodes, but eventually, eventually they became re-virginalized and very air quotes pure. They didn't fool around, they didn't voteio do. They do not voteio do. You voteio do. I do not voteio do. You voteo. Um, but that's that's what they had to do in order to get these characters on the on the air. Yeah, Laverne was probably the most virginal tramp ever on television. She was. But you know, it's funny because as I said, Gary Marshall's idea, his larger idea, was the fact that there had never been there was something unusual, well, unusual about placing two ordinary blue-collar women at the center of a sitcom. It had never really been done before. And what was interesting was was that Cindy Williams was not on board at first. Did you know that? I did hear this, yes. Because Cindy Williams was really on the verge of a very potentially big film career. Now, this was in the time where it's totally different now, but we've said this before. Movie stars, TV stars, definitely not in the same orbit. Movie stars did not do TV. And if you wanted to be a film star, a movie star, you didn't do TV. And Sydney Williams had just done American Graffiti with Ron Howard, ironically, and she had just done The Conversation with Gene Hackman, two very, very important films. So she was like, nah. And let's not forget the son of the blob. That true, that too. That also. So she had ideas that she was going to be a film actress, and she didn't want to basically sully herself by doing television. So they actually cast somebody else to do this 10-minute pilot, uh, test pilot for Laverne and Shirley. Uh, did you know this, Brad? I didn't. I don't remember who it was, so I'm anxious to hear. Her name is an actress named Liberty Williams. No relation to Cindy. No relation to Cindy. There's a lot of Williamses in Los Angeles. Okay, I don't remember. I remember I remember because she had an unusual name. I it I was thinking it was somebody I would know otherwise. She's a she's she was a cute pert. She was like Cindy Williams Light, you know? But and they filmed a screen test with Liberty Williams and Penny, but it just Michael Eisner, who was head of ABC at this time, was just like, absolutely not. The chemistry is between Cindy and Penny. We've got to find some way to get Cindy to do this. So he was able to convince Cindy Williams to do this. Probably, he probably said to her, look, it'll last a season, it won't harm your movie career, and I'll make sure you get movie work after this. So that's probably how he convinced her because she eventually came around and said, Yes, I will do this. So that's how we got Cindy

Lucy Influence And Equal Partnership

Brad Shreve 29:10

Williams and Penny Marshall in Laverne and Shirley. I want to touch on, I'm sure we'll do it more, the comparison between Lucy and Ethel and Laverne and Shirley. Absolutely. Because one thing I one thing I think that was a benefit to these two is Lucy came from I Love Lucy. Lucy was clearly the star. She not only she she ran the show, she was the star. And Vivian Vance, an incredibly talented woman, was always overshadowed by Lucy. Just the very nature of the industry made that happen. And Lucy, no shade, was an incredible talent. Because Penny Marshall was not known, and despite the fact that her brother created this show, they were to me equals. Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't Laverne and her roommate. It was Laverne and Shirley. And that is one thing that I think made it, I don't want to say stronger, but it it endears me a little bit because I always felt uh again, it's not a shade on Lucy because of her talent, but I always felt like Vivian Vance, who I also find incredibly talented, was I was always sad for her that she was the you know the supporting the secondary. She was a supporting player. Yeah. Yeah, she was supporting. Supporting. And and I like that these two are equals for the most part. They are. And that's what's wonderful about it. I always think it does actresses a disservice to call them the new Lucy and Ethel, the new Marion Rhoda. I mean, I get it. We all do it, but no, because these actresses had qualities and characteristics which are so individual to their own specific talents and gifts.

SPEAKER_06 30:44

Absolutely.

Brad Shreve 30:44

And I that's what I love about Laverne and Shirley. Yeah, it's the spirit of Lucy and Ethel, but Lucy and Ethel is the spirit of the Keystone Cops. I mean, you can do you can go back, back and back and back and back. What's wonderful about Cindy Williams and Penny Marshall is their chemistry. What made it work, just like with and I this I will give you, just like with Lucy O'Ball and Vivian Vance, their chemistry is what makes the situations work and the way they work with each other. It's almost like they're finishing each other's sentences. And that's what makes it so wonderful to see them on screen together. The love. There's love there. That's what people respond to.

Lenny And Squiggy As Spice

Brad Shreve 31:25

We have to bring up another duo in this show, and I'm kind of hesitant about this. I'm wondering how Brad's gonna go with this. Um, because another key piece of the show's success, you can't deny it, came from Michael McKean and David Lander, who played Lenny and Squiggy, who were not intentionally intended to be major characters on this show. But Gary thought we have to have somebody lower on the social totem pole than Laverne and Shirley. There has to be somebody lower, and that's where Lenny and Squiggy came from. But what are your thoughts on Lenny and Squiggy, Brad, in the show? Um, I always cringed when they came out. Um, I think uh as performers or in the story, or what do you mean? Their characters, um, because I always call it the the Kramer effect. Kramer was great, and so they started to have him come into the door too often. And I will say that is one thing that I liked about Vernon and Shirley that I felt helped keep it strong, is uh for the most part the secondary characters stayed secondary. They occasionally had episodes where they came forward, like the episode where the whole lone wolf issue with with Lenny, which I I but absolutely Yeah, sweet episode. Sweet. Uh you say so. It's like, oh, get out. Let's see Laverne and Cherry. Let's get past these two guys. Yeah, so it's not that I disliked them, it's just that a little they were funny to walk in and then go away. And that's the way I liked them. It's whenever they became more than that that I was like, oh, please. Well, thank God they said no to Fred Silverman when he offered to spin them off after the first year. What is it with Fred Silverman? Remember, he did that with Valerie Harper on Rhoda on Mary Teller Moore's show. Like, we want to give you your we want to spin you off. And she's like, what the hell's a spin-off? They did this, he did the same thing with McKean and Landers. He's like, we want to give you your own show. And they're like, no, we've barely done a season. We're we're not ready for this. And thank God, because that show would have tanked so fast because they are. They're the added spice, they're not the main event. You know, you can't eat a meal that's all salt and pepper. You need food. And Laverne and Shirley are the food, and Lenny and Squiggy are the spice that you get attention in once in a while that makes the show interesting, and then they go. But what's interesting about I find what's interesting about uh McKean and Landers is they had created these characters of Lenny, and his name was Antney. They were originally Lenny and Antney, and they created them at uh Carnegie Mellon University. Hello, Carnegie Mellon, when they were in school, and basically they were two stoned losers when they first created them. There was a lot of cannabis involved in these characters' demeanors. Did you know about that, Brad? Did you know that they were originally they created them in school and they were Lenny and Anthony? I knew they worked together and they had a routine together. I didn't know the details of it. I knew that these were not two guys that were brought together for a show that knew it didn't know each other. Right. So what happened was it was a party, and uh Penny Marshall knew they were going to be there, and she asked them to do, or maybe it was Rob Reiner who asked them to do these characters of Lenny and Anthony as a party game, and the executives loved it, laughed, so we had and Gary's like, we have to put them in the show because as I said, we need characters who were actually lower than Laverne and Shirley. So that's that's good. But they thought there were too many Italians in this show. This show was full of Italians from from Phil Harris to Penny Marshall to Gary Marshall. So they changed it. Uh, he wasn't Antney anymore, it became Lenny and Squiggy because since the show's in Milwaukee, like we said, it's got a high German and Polish population, and that made so much sense. And what's really funny is that neither Landers nor McKean were actually in the Screen Actors Guild. So they were, and this is this is like a little this is a rumor, uh, urban myth, which I'm gonna punch a little hole in. People always say they were originally hired as writers and they wrote themselves into the show. No, they were always going to be in the show, but they were originally hired as writers because they didn't have their sag cards. Now, I don't know why they just didn't buy them the SAG cards, but anyway, that's that's the way it was. So they came on as writers and then they were written into the show. But it is true that they usually wrote their own dialogue. That's usually their scripted. It wasn't part of usually that was their own creation. Now that doesn't surprise that doesn't surprise me at all. I don't know. I kind of I like them. I like when they come in. I like how I love their relationship with Laverne and Shirley, you know, Lenny and Laverne and Shirley and Squiggy. They have they have a special connection. And did you know? Here's a little tidbit for you, too. Did you know that Cindy Williams and um David Landers actually dated off and on the entire run of the series? Can you believe that? Shirley and Squiggy together. I heard the rumor, I didn't know if it was true. It's delicious. It's delicious. Yeah, I know it's a great, it's a great rumor. I like them, I think they add a wonderful flavor. I mean, you can't beat, you know, every time she says, why would anybody once? I remember one specifically, Laverne has eating something and she spits it out and Shirley goes, Don't do that, Laverne. Who would want anything chewed up and spit out? And of course, hello. That's when that never got old. It never gets old. It never gets old. I love that. Hell. Um, that was the running gag. I like them. Yeah, they could be a bit much sometimes, but I do like the levels they brought to the show. I do. I agree. So before we get into these episodes, Brad, is there something that you want to, anything else you want to talk about, any of these characters or that you want to add to what we've said so far?

Theme Song, Accents, And The L

Brad Shreve 37:05

I just want to add one uh two more things to the whole um New Yorkers in Milwaukee kind of thing. Because we have the the the of course the one, two, three, four Hasenfeffer incorporated Schlumizel Schlmazel. So we have women in Milwaukee who neither the characters are Jewish, but they're singing Yiddish, they're they're talking Yiddish. Well, I was gonna ask you that. That was one of my tidbits. I'm like, do you know what a schlemeel is? Do you know what a schlamozzel is? I know what a schlemeel and a I know what a schlamozzo is because I remember Louis on taxi explaining what a schlemeel and a schlmazel is. Oh, tell the people, tell the people. Uh I hope I get it right. A schlamiel is a guy that spills soup, and the schlamazzo is the one that gets the soup spilled out of. Yes, exactly. That was the way Louis explained it. That's it, that's it. A schlemeel is a bumbling person, and a schlamozzle is an unlucky person. And that whole one, two, three, four chant they do was something that Penny used to do as a child playing hopscotch. That's why that's in there. Yep. And we're gonna uh I I was gonna save the second thing that added to that, but I'm gonna wait until we talk about that particular episode, which maybe I think next week. So uh one last tidbit before we get into these episodes, um, is the fact that we talked earlier about the L. Why does Penny Marshall, why does Laverne have the L on her shirt in every single episode? What what's why what's the story behind it? And it was a way of distinguishing who the characters were because Penny's like they we would rather have an L signifying Laverne than every time the characters came in the room at the beginning of each episode having to say, Hey Laverne, hey Shirley, even though they ended up doing that all the time. Um, but that's why the L is there, and it became a I think it's you know it's mythic that L on on Laverne's shirt. It's fantastic, it's wonderful. So Laverne and Shirley premiered on January 27th, 1976.

Ratings, Emmy Snub, And ABC

Brad Shreve 39:02

And uh, as a bump, Penny and Cindy appeared on the Happy Days episode right before it, because Laverne and Shirley aired right after Happy Days, Tuesday night, 8:30. I still remember it so very well. And Gary Marshall said after the premiere that day, he was the next morning, he was searching the trades to see what the ratings were. How'd the show do? And he was really upset because he couldn't find it. He's like, Where's Laverne and Shirley? Where's Laverne and Shirley? And his wife looked at him and she looked at the paper and she said, You're not looking high enough. It debuted at number one. Isn't that incredible? That's incredible. I think only four other shows had done that. I know Andy Griffith did it. Rhoda did it not that long before, and I can't remember what the other one is. But that is astounding that the show actually debuted at number one for its very first episode. That was saying something right there. And Andy Griffith was known as a comedian already. So he had his foot in the door a little bit, and the movie star. Uh, Rhoda, obviously, everybody loved and adored Rhoda after being what on two, three seasons of Mary Tyler Moore before she spun off. Four. These are two women that played a role on one episode of Happy Days, which you just told me. I always assumed it was a backdoor pilot. I didn't know it wasn't. And yet, out of the blue, it premieres at number one. That's pretty amazing. It is pretty amazing. It is pretty amazing. And it jostled between one and three and one and four for its first two years until its third season, it became the most watched television program in America, displacing from the number one spot. What do you think the move the show was that it pushed out of number one spot when it became number one, Brad? Cared adventure, I guess. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a guess only because I know that it did uh do stronger than happy days for quite a period. So I'm just gonna say happy days. I don't think that's right. It wasn't happy days, it was All in the Family. Um, can you imagine the ride home in the car between Penny Marshall and Rob Reiner when that happened? They argued their way to the bank. Um, but you know, all in the family had been on for five, six years by this point, so it was no big deal. Um, but there was some stress that happened. But

The Turbulent Set Behind Laughter

Brad Shreve 41:20

before we get into these episodes, I just want to say that, you know, this is one of the very sad things, and I think we're gonna have a little grown-up moment here, folks. We like to think, I like to think of everything in TV being peaches and cream and sweet as pie and just everybody loving everybody. And when you're talking about a show as heartwarming and as lovely as Laverne and Shirley, you really want that to be true. Unfortunately, it wasn't. This was one of the most turbulent sets in the history of television. In fact, Gary Marshall said his kids would come visit him when he was working, and they always wanted to go see Laverne and Shirley. They always wanted to go visit the Laverne and Shirley set, and he wouldn't let them. He said, because I couldn't expose them to the screaming and the swearing and the fights between Penny and Cindy and the writers. It was just a nightmare to work on this show, which always astounds me because it's such a lighthearted romp when you're watching it. But apparently, this was a real hell on this on this set. Had you heard that? I well, that that had been talked about for for ages. That was talked about during the show's run. So yes, I definitely had heard about that. Uh, nobody knew whether it was true or not at the at those times. Yeah, I know it's amazing. Over the course of the series, 144 writers came and went. Now, just for context, remember on I Love Lucy, there were two right, three writers, and then later five writers, but nobody left. There were five writers the entire time. 144 writers came and went on LaVerna Shirley because they because of the fighting, because of the fact that Cindy Williams and Penny Marshall, when they weren't fighting each other, would then turn on the writers. And Gary Marshall said he wishes that he could say it wasn't the case, but it was. He said, Happy Days was a happy set. He said, Whenever I wanted a happy set, I go to Happy Days. Whenever I needed the tension, I went to Laverne and Shirley. And he thinks it's he thinks it's because of the fact that this success came so fast and so intensely that these women who were still fairly young, you know, Penny was in uh Cindy was in her late 20s, Penny was in her early 30s, didn't know how to handle it. They couldn't handle this sudden fame and the pressure of having the number one show on television. And that's a tremendous reason why there was so much heartache on this show and so many problems on this show. Yeah, that is sad to hear. But but it certainly being professionals that they are, it never showed on the show. No, it Didn't. And for her part, Penny said that Penny was no big surprise here, incredibly insecure about her looks, always her entire life. And to be on screen next to cute, petite Cindy Williams was very difficult on her ego. And also, think about Cindy Williams, you're basically in the Marshall family business. You know, you're your co-star, the creator, uh, the casting person, the studio executive are all Marshall. So that's pretty intimidating, too. So when we get into these episodes and we talk about how wonderful they are, um, remember that the set was hell, but the show, but the product was wonderful. Wonderful. So we should get into these episodes, Brad.

Picking Essential Milwaukee Episodes

Brad Shreve 44:47

Uh otherwise, we're gonna, it is gonna be a three-part episode. Yes. So as I said, Laverne and Shirley ran eight years. There were 178 episodes uh in the eight years. Strangely enough, this happens sometimes with us. We didn't pick any episodes from the first year, from the first half season. I like the first season, but the actresses are still kind of finding their characters. Uh like I said, Shirley still has a New York accent in the first few episodes, and she's a little hard. Um, but there are some really good episodes uh near the end of the first year. I also didn't like it when Fonz would make his cameos. You know what I mean? It's like uh we don't need this, you know. These women are the reason we're watching this show, not to see this middle-aged James Dean Wannabe come in. And I just like we don't need Fonz. These women are fine. So nothing from the first season. We picked from the second season, and I had a very difficult time choosing between from my first episode, so I kind of did both of them. Sorry, Brad. Um, so I remember as a kid loving the episode where Laverne, where Shirley taught Laverne how to drive. And I also remembered loving this episode where they were candy stripers or volunteer nurses. So I combined them. So our first two episodes is from season two, episode one.

Drive She Said Driving Lesson

Brad Shreve 46:07

It's called Drive, she said. It was written by Jack Winter, directed by Howard Storm, and it originally aired on September 28th, 1976.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

I'm afraid to drive, and I just don't want everyone to know, okay? Think about this. Not okay. Think about it.

SPEAKER_05 46:22

You're an adult woman, you shouldn't be afraid to drive. Shh, what you crazy the whole neighborhood's gonna hear? Maybe I want to shout it out to the whole neighborhood. Then you get embarrassed enough and you might at least try to drive.

Brad Shreve 47:28

Uh Laverne doesn't know how to drive. And Shirley wants to purchase a car from Carmine's friend Lucille, but she wants $200 from it, and Shirley only has $119.37. So she wants to get the rest of the money from Laverne, but there's only one problem. Laverne is afraid to drive and doesn't know how. So guess who volunteers to teach her? Shirley. And that's the show. That's the episode. What do you think of this episode, Brad? I thought it was a lot of fun. I actually, it's one thing that made me uh realize I really admired on this show is it makes all of this I'm sure was soundstage, but it makes Milwaukee feel real because Laverne and Shirley for that time era did a lot more outdoor shots than most shows did. And this is one where they really did. You I mean, you you can clearly see their sets, but they're driving around, real people are there. Um we always saw the front of their store. They utilize that paramount lot, that paramount back lot. They use that. Yeah, I did. And I bring it up because like I said, I one thing I really like about this show is that you really feel uh it's over the top, every every show is, that's any every character ever is uh on anything you watch, but you really feel like these are two women that work at this factory, and it's it makes it feel real. And the fact that they did so many outside shots on this show, uh, depending on the episode, added to that realism and added to the humor to me. And it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. I just remember that uh I just remember the scene of Laverne and Shirley sitting on the sofa, and Shirley's giving Laverne the driving lesson, and she's they're using she uses a record player for the steering wheel, a banana for the shift arm, uh, the corn is the clutch, the beans are the brakes, and the peaches are the gas. And Laverne says, Shouldn't we use the beans for the gas? Shirley goes, Don't do that. I love Cindy Williams, don't do that. It's they're so great. And the best part is they get into a fight, of course, and Shirley mimes getting out of the car in a huff and throwing the door closed. That was classic. That that is the classic, and I love the shouting of their secrets out the window. Oh my god, oh my god, Shirley Feeney's middle name is Wilhelmina. That's how I knew her middle name. Stuff socks in her bra. And I knew that was coming. I didn't remember it, but I'm like, okay, she's gonna say Shirley stuffs her bra. It's just it's it's this kind of specific character work that Cindy Williams does, which makes me love her so much. It makes me wonder why she didn't get at least one Emmy nomination. The miming slamming the car door. No, I guarantee you she came up with that. You know, uh, this is this is the kind of gold that these actresses found in these characters, and why it works.

Angels Of Mercy Physical Comedy

Brad Shreve 50:24

And it also works in the second episode, right after that, from season two called Angels of Mercy, written by William Bickley and Michael Warren, directed by Howard Storm, and it aired on October 5th, 1976.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

I've got a big problem. Get in here. What happened? You know how you're supposed to collect all the patients' false teeth to have them clean? Well, I did that. Only I forgot to tag them.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

I got a triple unmarked teeth. I was about to tag them when Dr. Ramble came by me. I got some. What am I gonna do with these teeth? Okay, okay, just a second. Okay. Put a set in each person's glass and let the patients find it out for themselves. They're lunchtime.

Brad Shreve 51:27

And I just want to touch on this episode briefly because I remember this episode along with the last one so clearly from my childhood. And the reason I want to talk about this, this is the episode where Shirley and Laverne are volunteering at the hospital. They're volunteer nurses. And what's amazing about this episode was this was the real first indication of Penny Marshall's physical comedy genius. Because there's a scene where she has to change the sheets of a hospital bed with the patient still in the bed. And there's a moment where she pulls on the sheets and she slowly starts to slide and she slides under the bed. And according to Gary Marshall, they said cut, he greased the floor so she would really fly. And according to Penny Marshall, she put talcum powder on the floor so she would slide even further. Regardless of how it came about, this is the moment where the Lucy connection is complete between. I mean, Lucy and Viv, by the way, Lucy and Viv were also volunteer nurses on a Lucy show episode, by the way, because this is where Penny Marshall truly, truly comes into her own as a physical comedian. Don't you think so? Well, and that that really surprises me because uh I wouldn't know this because neither of us, as you said, picked an episode from the first season. And the fact that you said this is when it first really happened surprises me because I think like most people, I think of this as a physical comedy hysterical show. And I can't imagine what it makes me want to go back and watch the first season just to see that it was toned down in that sense, because I can't picture it. Well, there was uh there were there were moments in the first season, like the bowling episode when she's you know she's sick and she's bowling, and they there are moments in the first season, but this is really the first time that it got the attention. Not classic like this. Yes, where people paid attention and went, what do we have here? We have a physical comedian on the level or very close to the level of Lucille Ball, and this was even a little intimidating to Cindy with Cindy Williams um as well. Um, another reason for the tension. Um, but I that's what I mean is this is like the really the first really clear, good, good physical comedy moment where people were like, this is a talented girl. She's just not Gary Marshall's sister. This is a talented actress. I I love that. I love that. And I also love the bit about the 300-watt light bulb in the refrigerator. Remember, they're they're in the very beginning, they're out of they need a light bulb for the refrigerator, and the only one they have is 300 watts. So Shirley puts on sunglasses when she goes to get in the refrigerator. It's just little silly things like this. And I remember it from a kid, and that's why I love this episode so much. I have a a curiosity question for you. And uh so much of this series is looking for a man to uh there's there it's counteracted with a lot of stuff of them trying to get out of their their situation in life on their own. But there's a lot all about marrying the right man and meeting the right man to take them away from all this, their knight in shining armor. And I don't think anybody ever questioned it. Do you think if this show wasn't based on the f in the 50s that people would have thought more like, well, wait a minute, these are two women, can't they be independent? Or you just don't it was because it was that I'm thinking too deeply about because I I sat there and I watched that and I'm like it hit me at one point. I'm like, I I don't know if that would go over today. I well, I don't think it would go over today. I wouldn't, but you know, this is fifty years ago. Hello, happy 50th birthday, Laverna Charlie. Yeah, we think about this is 76. So Mary Tyler Moore had been on, that girl had been on, but really, no. And also setting it in the 50s, I think, took care of that because it was about Yes, that's that's what I'm thinking. I think so too. But again, it wasn't that common. If these were 70s women, then we don't think they might not be as man-obsessed as they are. But I think what the thing about uh the 50s is it gives it such a nice flavor, and that's one of the things that they can be that man-obsessed, because in the in the 50s that's the way it was. Yeah. So I think Brad, you have the next one. What's

Stepping Out Race Against Time

Brad Shreve 55:41

up? Okay, I am my first pick was season two, episode 16, Stepping Out, which was written by Deborah Lesson, uh, directed by Dennis Klein, and it originally aired uh February 8th, 1977.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

Give me a coat. Coat, coat. Still in all, it was kind of nice of him to fix a dumb waiter. Now we could uh get rid of our garbage.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

Why don't you start with the couch? I know that voice, and I hate the person it's attached to. What are you doing here? What's she doing here? What are you doing here? I just want to pick up the stuff from Shirley and then I'll leave.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

What's the I asked her to come over? She's collecting old clothes for the charity bazaar and it's real nice, Rose. Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

You see, whoever suits up the most dolphins gets a go plaque. And I won it. You got a big hunt there, get rid of from the house. Um sorry, girls.

SPEAKER_04 56:45

We don't have time to go home something else if you come back next week. What you wear and it'll be just fine. Going to the Shea Fister to see the five satins. Well, you two, Mr. Correll, with a couple of real big spenders.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

What's wrong with them? Nothing happens to be wrong with them. They happen to be a couple of real dream boats.

SPEAKER_04 57:20

Yes, they are sensational gentlemen. And if you laid eyes on them, your tongue would be hanging out.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

Yeah, more than usual.

Brad Shreve 57:31

Now, I chose this episode because I remember this is the one episode I remembered in exquisite detail. Like every second of this episode I remembered, and we even discussed it uh uh in uh one of our previous episodes. I don't know what it what it was about, but I brought up this episode and I talked about because I remembered it so distinctly because it was so brilliant that it was done in real time. Lo and behold, I sat here and I watched them like, well, this the skits are there that I remember and they're funny, but this is not in real time in any way. But it's a fun episode. I love this. I'm so happy you picked this episode. Do you know why I love this episode? You know why, but do you know why I love this episode? Tell the people. Um is it Rosie? Big Rosie Greenbaum. I said, Brad, we have to, have to, have to have an episode with Big Rosie. Because I remember Big Rosie as a kid and just loving Big Rosie, played by the wonderful actress Carol Ida White, Big Rosie Greenbaum, Laverne's nemesis, and then she disappeared. You know, you never really didn't see her much again until the last year she came back for their 10th, they had a high school reunion episode, she was in it. But she's pretty much just in the second season and third season, then she was gone. And I don't know why, because I love Big Rosie. She's a hoot. She is great, and a great uh antagonist with uh Laverne. Uh I love that. Uh she she's one of those you love to hate. So tell everybody what this episode's about. This episode is Laverne and Shirley are rushing home from work, and they only have a few hours to get ready for a date with some high-rolling guys. And surprise, surprise, one thing after another gets in their way of getting ready in time for this date. And there's a lot of physical comedy, uh, things from a there's a major fire. They set it so-and-so's house that's on fire, and then they kept showing outside and look like 10 city blocks there. Huge fire. They turn off the water for the fire just when Shirley's in the shower and she's got soap on her hair, and she can't dry her hair. Laverne can't find anything to wear. It's it's such a fun, fun episode because all because they're going through all this stuff to get ready, and they end up getting ready. And then what happens? Well, they step outside, and of course, Lenny and Squiggy, being who they are, decide they want to turn on the fire hydrant for the kids to play, and Laverne and Shirley all dressed up and ready to go, and they turn on the fire hydrant. You can imagine what happened. So it's very cute. Then walking back in the door just drenched. But yeah, you remember I told you that that girl, I remembered the pop song, and like sometimes I'll be working around the house and stop. And yeah, there is a scene in this episode where before Shirley takes a shower later because she has to, but earlier she doesn't have time, she doesn't think she has time for a shower, so she puts this dust in her hair. That's right. I remember this stuff from the 70s because I remember when my mom was uh she came back from the hospital and she couldn't get in the shower, and so we put this stuff in her hair. It's it's dust and you brush it out, it's supposed to clean your hair. I don't know. But anyway, it's called quickie poo. Quickie poo, yes. Now I now now I'm drawing a blank. It's something if if like your hair, if you're this isn't exactly, but if your hair is dirty full of goo, brush it out with quickie poo. And I if it wasn't for recording this right now, I would remember that distinctly because for whatever reason, I always remembered that. It made me. Yeah. I love that. I love the quickie poo. It's one physical thing after another. And my favorite part, my absolute favorite part, is when Shirley is in the shower. First of all, you clear as day see a toilet in the bathroom, which that was still new at that time. True. Uh, and it is front and center. And Shirley is in the shower when the fire department cuts off the water. Yeah, and so she's soapy, and she's screaming at Laverne to get water from somewhere, and you know, she's getting frustrated because Laverne doesn't know where to go. And you see this evil grin on Laverne's face, and she looks over at the toilet and the curtain opens, and Shirley goes, Don't you think about it. Don't even think about it. It's so great. It's the way she says it. It's the way she says, Don't even think about it. She knew the minute she said, give me some water, I don't care from where, that Laverne would do that. That's what I think is so it's what you they're filling in their backstory of their characters, these actresses, and it just informs these situations and gives them such richness and such depth. That's what I love about these episodes. They're just so rich in character and fun, in my opinion. And and the best part is after all of that, and they get water sprayed all over them, and we don't see the two guys show up, but apparently they took it really good natured, and the girls went out. They come back, say their sweet goodbyes, and then they're like, What jerks? And then we know they're never gonna go out after all of that. After all that, these guys turn out to be losers. It's yes, it's the perfect capper, it's the cherry on top of the shit Sunday. It really, it really is after all this, and that's Laverne and Shirley. That's the point of Laverne and Shirley. You know, they go through all this to have these big dreams, and their balloons are constantly being pricked, and it's it's delightful. A delightful episode. I'm so happy you picked that one. So my episode's up next, another one also from season two, season two and season three, the best of Laverne and Shirley, in my opinion. Absolutely.

Guinea Pigs And Hotel Pfister

Brad Shreve 1:03:24

Look at all these episodes from season two. We're talking about in its uh season two, episode 14. It's called Guinea Pigs. It was written by Jack Winter, directed by James Burroughs, which is pretty impressive. I know that guy. Yeah, and it originally aired on January 18th, 1977.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:45

Ladies, squeaky, come down here, please, right now. You know that secret place that they go to some weekends to earn money? Honest. Do you want to miss somebody or do you want to stay at home and hear me humbling about my sweater? Sometimes big answers come in small tiny brains. You know that secret place you go to to earn money sometimes? Could you take us there?

Brad Shreve 1:05:24

All right, so in this episode, I think just from the title, guinea pigs, if anybody knows Laverne and Shirley, I think they know what the episode is. So Laverne and Shirley have an opportunity to attend a swanky cocktail party at the Hotel Fister, which is a real place in Milwaukee. I've been there, by the way. It really is kind of swanky. Um, but there's only one problem they're the admission to get into the party is 20 bucks. And of course, they don't have 20 bucks. So they turn that. Yeah, it was. So they turn to Lenny and Squiggy, who have this secret place they go when they need cash fast. And of course, It turns out to be a place where they have to be human guinea pigs. So it's for scientific experiments. So Shirley enrolls in a nutrition study where she only eats air quotes natural foods, which mostly are is dirt and banana peels and crocus blossoms. And Laverne enrolls in a sleep study where she gets only minutes of sleep in 48 hours. And of course, the cocktail party is right after the study's over. And as you can imagine, Shirley is ravenous, Laverne is comatose, and hilarity ensues. And in my opinion, this is the most, and if you don't agree with me on this, please, I think this is the most iconic episode of Laverne and Shirley. Because it distills, it truly distills this show down to its purest form. The girls want to do better. They want to better themselves, but they always need money. So they do anything they can to get it. And in the end, they end up humiliating themselves in the process. So it's just like that's what this show is about. These things these girls go through to for a better life, and they always, at the end, they always get the short end of the stick. They always get the fuzzy end of the lollipop. I think that's why I love this. The scene where they're finally at the um cocktail party, and Shirley has managed to maneuver Laverne into a chair so she can sleep because she hasn't slept in 48 hours. And another brilliant physical bit by Penny Marshall. She does a somersault and falls on the floor. And Shirley's standing there with a rich cracker that she pounced on on the floor, and she goes, Ta-da! It's just so great. It's just these women were such a great team. Such a great team. I think that scene at the cocktail party is one of the funniest scenes on TV ever. What do you think of this episode? I I love this episode, and it's almost like two separate episodes because I absolutely love the whole thing at the lab, you know, when the the absurdity of the sleep doctor keeping these four or five people up and they're exhausted. And he finally says, Okay, now you can have your bedtime. And they jump into the bed, he turns off the light, closes the door, and instantaneously opens the door back on, turn on the light again. It is so absurd that when that part of it is end ending, it's like, oh no, this is don't don't change this. But of course, we know it is all leading up to the to the cocktail party or the the party at the Hotel Fister. So it it's it's like, oh, I don't want it to end, but then we're given this the second part that is hysterical in its own right. And they're all they could be almost two separate things, except you need the first part to make the second one work. This is like if we're gonna do a little Lucy comparison, this episode's full of Lucy moments, people. This is like the Candy Factory episode from I Love Lucy or or the Lucy's Italian movie, because there are two incredible acts in this show. One is just as good as the first, you know, the second one tops the first one, if possible. And that's what's so brilliant about the construction of these episodes, is they are just pure comedy, pure block comedy. And when Cindy Williams sees that rich cracker on the carpet and she slowly walks over and then pounces on it, and then stands up and pats her mouth and goes, I feel worlds better. It's just it's insane, but they do it so well, it's it's funny. You believe it, you believe it. And I don't think it's an accident that this episode is so brilliant. And it was directed by James Burroughs. I mean, sitcom God, Friends, Cheers, Will and Grace, Frasier. I mean, yes, they have this kind of quality of people. He I think he directed about eight episodes of uh Laverne and Shirley. This has to be the best, in my in my opinion. And you just hit the nail on the head of the one thing that uh you know, we I keep getting back to it. The this show is so absurd. The situations are so absurd, the these our two characters are so absurd, yet they make it feel so real. Yeah, no, it's some it's so real, they believe it. They like Lucy. That was one of the lessons that that Gary Marshall learned from Lucy O'Ball was you believe in the reality of the situation, even though it's a ridiculous situation. If you can grasp onto a kernel of reality, then it works, then it's funny, and that's exactly it. I equate it almost like if you sometimes you have to think about and you're like, oh yeah, Kermit is really just a puppet. Yeah, oh yeah, these these two don't really exist. It's it's that absurdity that they make it seem so real. Which leads us to our final episode for this episode of Going Hollywood that we're going to talk about. And Brad, I believe it is your episode.

Take My Plants Please Door Sales

Brad Shreve 1:10:59

Yes, this is another one that I remember distinctly, and it is season three, episode 11, Take My Plants, Please. And it was written by Mark Sotkin and directed by Alan Rafkin, and it originally aired on December 13, 1977.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:17

It's only temporary. We go down to unemployment, fill out a few forms, and collect the 4250 a week.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:23

I hate to go down to unemployment. It's embarrassing down there. Everybody down there knows that you don't have a job.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:38

I don't like it. I don't like to sit around for a week. I'm an active penny.

Brad Shreve 1:12:29

Now, the premise of the show, and I don't know how many times this happened, Laverne and Shirley lost their jobs at the bottle cap factory. It seems like it was all every it seems like it was every other episode. I don't know if that was but once again they got laid off from the bottle cap factory, and I don't remember what the reasoning was, but there's always something. And uh so they had to they they had the choice of either going on unemployment and making their $40 a week, I think it was, or Shirley comes up with the idea of taking what little money they had and buying plants uh at wholesale so they can turn around and resell them door-to-door uh retail price. And uh what I distinctly remember from this episode was the kooky people that they dealt with at each and every door. And I remember thinking how funny it was. Yeah, and uh it ended up not uh my my memory served me well because I really enjoyed it. And I would they will notice uh there were there was one thing that uh comes up on this show all the time, and it came up on this one once again. What's that? I think there were at least men cheat a lot on Laverne and Shirley. Yes. They cheat a lot and they see prostitutes a lot. It is, it's true, and it's very true. I agree with you, yes, yes. What's interesting about this? So so as you said, this episode was written by Mark Sotkin, who wrote many episodes of the Golden Girls, by the way. Alan Rafkin, who directed a lot of Norman Lear. And I, so it's an incredible team here working on this show. Hopefully they weren't screaming at each other too much. And I, when you you said you wanted to do this episode, I didn't remember it. And then I started to watch it, and it has one of my very favorite lines ever. That when they first get laid off, and Shirley hates going to unemployment, and Laverne says that she once met a doctor at unemployment, and Shirley says, Why would a doctor be unemployed? Ask yourself that, Laverne. And Laverne said, He was so good, he cured everybody. But I have remembered that line my entire life. So when I'm watching this, I'm like, oh my God, it's this episode. That's what I mean by these episodes. I remember bits and pieces of a lot of them. I don't know where they're from. And then we were watching, you're like, oh, it's this episode. It's and this is also the episode where Laverne says, Doesn't that balloon ever land? You know, Shirley's balloon never lands. Um, or maybe Shirley goes, What about my balloon? Or something like that. And so that's what I love about this episode is that these little moments that I remember for 50 years, and here it is, like the first time. It's wonderful. It really is. And again, we end up with them uh through uh they they have this book that Edna Babish gave them about how to do sales, and and they they go through the book step by step, and um of course each each each one fails or or succeeds in in an odd way, and that's a huge part of what makes it so funny, such as when they are uh when they learn that oh, you should be obnoxious so the person will pay you to get to get away, and of course they uh go they're obnoxious to the man uh the uh who's with the prostitute, though they don't know he's with the prostitute, and they're like, Well, how does your wife feel about that? And he's like, Oh, oh, and he gives you know he buys all the plants from them because he thinks that they're threatening to tell his wife. So there's all those little little nuggets throughout, and uh it but in the end, typical of Vernon Shirley, they sell everything, they're thrilled at how much they make, and then they start adding how much the whole thing costs. Yeah. And in the end, they made five dollars. Oh god, it's just it's gut-wrenching, it's gut-wrenching these girls what these girls go through. Actually, no, they made five dollars more than they would have made in unemployment. Yeah, yeah. So basically, they worked their asses off for the same amount if they just sat around. But minor happy ending point, they do get a letter in the mail saying they got their jobs back at the brewery, so they don't have to sell plants anymore or go in unemployment and meet a doctor. Because why would a doctor be unemployed? Ask yourself that, Brad. We could be a bad doctor. Well, those are our episodes for part one of our Laverne and Shirley happy birthday tribute.

Part Two Setup And Listener CTA

Brad Shreve 1:17:01

Uh, that was a lot of fun. We are going to continue the conversation next week on part two, um, because something happens uh in Laverne and Shirley, which is very tragic, uh, which we will address next week, the Jump the Shark moment. But we'll also have other episodes in Milwaukee to talk about too, because there's just so many. We just we couldn't stop picking episodes. It was crazy, it was nuts. Yeah, it was difficult. So, uh as usual, if you haven't left us a review, please do so on Apple Spotify or wherever you're listening to this podcast. If you haven't subscribed, you want to listen next week's episode. So make sure you subscribe so you'll get a notification that that episode is out. You can even have it auto-download right into your app. And uh, other than that, tell a friend. That might be nice. Tell some friends, tell some friends. We're doing we're doing the Lord's work here. Ongoing Hollywood, tell some friends about it. We're talking about Laverne and Shirley. I mean, come on. Why wouldn't you want to listen to that? Well, Brad, this has been a lot of fun, and I'm looking forward to continuing our adventures in Milwaukee with our wonderful friends Laverne and Shirley. Um, but this was a lot too, so I'm kind of wiped out, and I only have one more thing left to say. But as usual, I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say, I don't voteio do. Well, I know that's not true, but no, let's say goodbye. I voteio. Goodbye, everybody.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:38

Nobody wants anything that's been chewed up and spit out.