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Tony Maietta 1:24

Hello, I'm film historian Tony Mayetta.

Brad Shreve 1:28

And I'm Brad Freeb, who's just the guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta 1:31

We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too. And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter. As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood. So, Brad, how you doing?

Brad Shreve 1:57

You know, Tony, uh I'll be fine and dandy. You know, Lord, it's like a hard candy Christmas. How are you?

Tony Maietta 2:04

 

Brad Shreve 2:05

Brad Shreve 2:05

I gotta tell you, I am barely getting through tomorrow, but still I won't let sorrow weigh me down. I shouldn't have done that. But me, I will go on. Talk about a hard candy Christmas. Talk about a hard fucking candy Christmas. Excuse my swearing. But wow, wow, you know, oh my god. So, ladies and gentlemen, if you hadn't, if you didn't figure that out now, uh, this is a special episode we put together because of the devastating news we heard about the passing of I don't even want to call her an icon, she's even bigger than an icon, Angel on Earth, the one and only Dolly Parton. And we just thought we have to talk about we have to talk about Dolly. It's too big not to acknowledge, right? You know, I log into YouTube and my whole screen is filled with Dolly. Everybody's talking about Dolly. When Betty White died, we were all devastated, and everybody talked about Debbie, Betty, and when she was so beloved, and I didn't think anything could surpass that. And my god, Dolly is just like it doesn't matter people's political, social song preference, any of that.

Tony Maietta 3:27

That's the thing. That's the thing.

Brad Shreve 3:29

Is that she they adore Dolly.

Tony Maietta 3:31

I can't think of any other performer that first of all hit so many genres from recording to stage to performing to movies to television, and also one that everybody, everybody, no matter what your political persuasion, no matter what your sexual orientation, no matter what your wealth, status, whatever, loved this woman. I don't I don't know anybody else like that. I really, really don't. Even Betty White, you know, who was almost a hundred though. And that the sad thing about Dolly's is it was a shock. I I wasn't expecting this. It was all so fast. Yes, and she was 80 years old, but 80 is nothing anymore. And it's amazing to me that uh I experienced the same thing when I go on Instagram. It's like, okay, thirst trap Dolly, Thirst Trap Dolly, Thirst Trap Dolly. It's like unbelievable how she's completely taken over everything. I think because everybody is so damn shocked about this whole thing.

Brad Shreve 4:32

Yeah, I actually had a heads up about a month ago. A friend of mine is a DJ in Nashville. He was very excited that he was going to get to interview Dolly for the second time. He only they they didn't even give him the full length of time he was promised the first time, which he wasn't surprised it is Dolly, after all, and her people escorted her away. But he was really excited, and that was she canceled a whole bunch of interviews that in that same few days. And he said, I saw Dolly is not looking good. So I was as prepared as a human can possibly be.

Tony Maietta 5:06

Wow.

Brad Shreve 5:07

And hoped that he was wrong.

Tony Maietta 5:09

I was just stunned.

Brad Shreve 5:10

And he yeah, I and that's the only reason why I wasn't as stunned as most, because I'd already been given the heads up. But I there was a I was hoping and praying that he just was exaggerating, and obviously he wasn't.

Tony Maietta 5:24

So I guess, ladies and gentlemen, like like all of you, we are just mourning the loss of this true I this true angel on earth. And so what Brad and I thought we would do, we would just kind of like chat about Dolly, our feelings about Dolly, Dolly's songs, Dolly's movies, Dolly's TV shows. And then we invited a couple very special guests, friends of the pod, to come on and just give their thoughts, uh, how they how they have personal connections to Dolly, how they feel about it. So this is going to be a true, I say it a lot, but this really is a true change of pace episode for us. It's just one where we want to we want to pay our respects to this angel on earth uh who touched, I think she touched all our lives.

Brad Shreve 6:07

I think that's why everybody is so upset about it. Yeah, I think uh we owe it to her to do it, and we owe it to ourselves.

Tony Maietta 6:15

Yeah, I think so.

Brad Shreve 6:16

This is healing for us.

Tony Maietta 6:18

We're not gonna do any deep dives. I'm not gonna sit here and talk about uh Brad's not gonna give you the stats on movies. We're not gonna talk about back, well, I might have one or two backstage stories, shenanigans. But that's not what this is about. Maybe someday we'll talk about. I would love to talk about nine to five in depth. I would love to talk about Steel Magnolia's in depth. Uh that's not what this episode is. Um, this episode is more like a remembrance of Dolly past. And uh it'll be a lot of fun. But Brad, you told me before we started recording, you wouldn't tell me. You watched some movies. You did you did watch a couple movies uh of Dolly's recently? You tell about that?

Brad Shreve 6:55

Yes. I I told you I was I had two of her films and I was gonna watch them. And I thought about nine to five because that was her first film, and so when everybody but actually nine to five, um well, I'm not gonna count Rhinestone. I was gonna say nine to five was not my was one of my least favorite of hers. Watch but um rhinestone, we won't even mention no no no hold it, hold it. Let me I'll put this in perspective.

Tony Maietta 7:18

Oh, please do.

Brad Shreve 7:19

You know me, you know me. I hate it when people say a movie's dated. I absolutely despise it, it it infuriates me. I loved nine to five, I've watched it 10 million times. I do have a difficult time getting into it these days, just because I don't connect with it the same as I used to, because uh I hate to say the words, it's kind of dated. I can put it in the era, and it's way too much of that still exists today. I mean,

Tony Maietta 7:49

 

Brad Shreve 7:50

Brad Shreve 7:50

way too much, way too much, way too much of it exists today. So I'm not saying that we're past all that. Uh, that's like when I when people watch um oh, we we talked about uh Guess Who's Coming to Didn't Guess Who's Coming Dinner, Guess Who's Coming Dinner, and people are like, well, that's all past. No, it's not. Same thing with Nine to Five, but I just don't connect with it the way I used to. Plus, there's two other films that I love dramatically more. One is Still Magnolia's, just because I think it's one of the most brilliant films of all time. I only got halfway through with that, and I'll tell you why in a moment. The one I watched all of the two films, I have uh Steel Magnolias, and the other is Best of Little Whorehouse in Texas. I watched Best Little Whorehouse in Texas first, and I wish I had thought about it for our I was just

Tony Maietta 8:35

you just read my mind for our guilty pleasure series.

Brad Shreve 8:37

Yes, guilty pleasure it is not it is not a great film. It highlights, dare I say it, it highlights Dolly's not so great acting that none of us care out about. Nobody's just Dolly. Anybody else would never have got away with her. Kind of you can tell if she's blocking and you know all this. Nobody else could have got away with it. It's Dolly, nobody gave a shit. So that film I think highlights it more than the others, so that you do see them. I love that movie because it's just plain fun, and I love the music. Absolutely love the music.

Tony Maietta 9:12

Texas has a whorehouse in it. Yes. I love that, I love that. No, you it should have been one of our I thought the same thing. I was like, oh damn, that would have been a great guilty pleasure because that's what it is. It's not a good movie, but it's so much fun to watch because of her. And I love Burt Reynolds, and I love, I think Jim Neighbors is hysterical, Dom Deluise is hysterical. I love the movie because it's just so much fun. It's not a great movie. No, but her whole, the whole song she does when she's speaking to the girls with the rules and everything that they have to, you know, the things they have to do in the horror house. Miss Mona's no no rules, I pay the food and the rent and the utilities. So much fun. And she's perfectly cast in that role.

Brad Shreve 9:54

She is because she is she is more Dolly in that movie than any other film. She's cute, she's giggly, she um she actually even talks about her conflict with religion and and and her open-mindedness, very tight, very lightly touched on it, but that's pretty much what she always did during her career. And she is uh trashy just enough that we know it's part of her persona, and we know a lot of it's part of her, you know, her stage persona. But it was all very but at the same time, she's always been very real. And I feel like that is totally Dolly. As I said, the music's great. My favorite song of hers is I I'll Always Love You. I hate that people associate it with Whitney. I think Whitney was a great performer. I don't think she was a great singer, and I know that people's jaws just hit the ground.

Tony Maietta 10:43

Oh my god. Okay, my god. I'll tell you why.

Brad Shreve 10:47

When you listen to Whitney, I'm gonna tell you why. When you listen to Whitney, all right, you can tell that Whitney is trying to show off her voice. Dolly doesn't do that, Dolly just sings like an angel.

Tony Maietta 10:59

I think we just lost a bunch of listeners.

Brad Shreve 11:02

Ik now

Tony Maietta 11:03

you just lost a bunch of things.

Brad Shreve 11:03

I know we did, I know we did. People are just astonished, they hate my guts now. They're probably gonna uh tell you to start your own show. I don't give a shit. That is the way I feel. I don't dislike Whitney, I just think she's overrated. Now, Dolly, I will always love you. I love her, is it 73 or so 74 version? It's a little more somber. I love her version from Best of Horhouse. Uh, I love actually one thing I I distinctly remember, I'm almost certain it was on the Oprah, not long after the Whitney uh song came out. And she and Whitney weren't really friends, but she had a huge respect for Whitney and she loved Whitney's singing ability. Wow. Uh, she was thrilled. Dolly was thrilled anytime anybody did one of her songs and got huge or bigger than she did. That says a lot about Dolly.

Tony Maietta 11:50

Well, think about the many, many millions of dollars that Dolly Parton made. In addition, yes, yes.

Brad Shreve 11:56

And I don't know if you know the story about Elvis, but it was the best thing that ever happened to her that she turned Elvis down to sing that song. Yes. But um, because they want he won half the ownership, and she's like, I'm there, she said, forget that, because she's a shrewd businessman, businesswoman.

Tony Maietta 12:10

She was.

Brad Shreve 12:11

But I saw her on Oprah and she sang that song, and uh, as always, I've got tears in my eyes. And when she finished being Dolly, she goes, Take that, Whitney.

Tony Maietta 12:25

Well, it's a different what I love about it, it's a different interpretation of a song. Whitney's version is a torch song. It's it's it's something, you know, she belts that out. Dolly's is much more intimate. Dolly's is um a conversation almost, you know. And she did, she wrote it because of her breakup, professional breakup with Porter Wagner. Yes. And how wonderful, how wonderful that, you know, this was kind of an acrimonious, he sued her for a million dollars. And I remember she said, well, if he can uh if he can live with suing me, I can live with paying him. I mean, that's how little she thought of that kind of acrimony. She's like, Well, if he can ask for it, I can pay it, and that's done. And then she turns around and writes this song, which basically expresses her opinion in the most intimate way about this relationship. And I think I find them both moving and touching for for different reasons. I do.

Brad Shreve 13:18

When you listen to the original version, you it's it's very personal. It's it's she's crushed. You can hear that. Yeah. In the in the movie version, it's more of a love song, and in the Whitney version, it's a much different type of love song. So all three versions were done very differently. Let me let me talk more about Dolly and doing people doing her songs. I I watched her on Wired. You're familiar with no, no, I'm sorry, it wasn't Wired, it was Glamour, which did exactly what Wired does.

Tony Maietta 13:49

But she was on Wired. She was on Wired. She did do a video on Wired. Yeah, she was.

Brad Shreve 13:54

Okay. This was one where she was watching uh people doing her song. I think they were all pulled from YouTube and other social media. And she was on there and she goes, they're doing it better than I did. And you could tell she meant it. She's like, That person's a crowd, that person should be a star. And then they were playing her responses to these people, and you can imagine. Yeah. They're like, Dolly said that about me. Oh my god. And they because they weren't told what they were being shown. They just opened it up, and there's Dolly. They're like, Dolly's watching me. And then they heard what she said, and it was you can tell it's probably the biggest moment of their lives. Maybe was that wired?

Tony Maietta 14:31

Well, she was on wired. I haven't watched the episode, but she was on wired. Okay. You know why she probably thought that way was because she she thought of herself first and foremost as a songwriter, not as a singer. That was what was most important to her. From the day minute she got up to the minute she went to bed, very much like Loretta, thought of herself as a songwriter, a storyteller. Think about her songs. I mean, they're all about her, you know, from Coat of Many Colors to all the bluegrass stuff she did in the 90s to Little Sparrow and oh my god, some of that stuff. They're all personal stories. So she didn't mind it when other people sang her songs because she was a songwriter. She just happened to sing too, so people could hear her songs. True. And I I agree with you 100%. But at the same time, you and I both know celebrities that are still very insecure. Oh, wow. And I don't have an e she could have an ego. Yeah. She could have an she could have had an ego. Totally. She had an ego, but it wasn't she wasn't preventing people from from she liked it. She enjoyed it. She people who are truly talented and people who have security in their talent are not threatened by other talented people. Exactly. They enjoy talent. Exactly. I think Elaine Stritch said that. How about that? You never thought you'd get an Elaine Stritch moment out of a Dolly Parton episode. Elaine said, There's something about talent. I want to be around talent. And it's that's the way Dolly was. But she did not think of herself, she did think of herself as a singer, but she thought of herself primarily as a songwriter. But you know what she certainly didn't think of herself was of was as a movie star. And she was just as flabbergasted as everybody else when Jane Fonda contacted her and said, I want you to be in this movie I'm making about women's problems in the workplace. Do you know that whole story that Jane Fonda tells about getting Dolly into nine to five? I do. And um, my understanding is that Jane wanted Dolly because Dolly fit the character. Dolly uh is buxome, she's beautiful, she comes across as Ditzy. If you first met her, you think, oh, this is a dumb blonde. But behind all of that, she was a sharp woman who nobody could question her intelligence or her her uh just acumen. Right. Well, Doralie Rhodes, her character in nine to five, is basically Dolly. I mean, she's not playing, she's not playing Medea, she's not playing Miss Julie, she's playing a version of Dolly Parton. That's who she was. She was a personality. And I have a funny story about I have a funny story about Steele Magnolias. Remind me to tell you that maybe after we Dell comes in, we talk to Dell. But no, the the story about Dolly getting involved, period, in 9 to 5, is that Jane Fonda was producing this film with her producing partners, and she it was a serious film about women in the workforce and about what happened to women in the workforce. And then one night she went to see Lily Tomlin in the show Appearing Nightly, and she said she fell in love with Lily Tomlin. She was like, I am just so in love with this talent, with this woman, with this, with this character. She said, I suddenly realized I had to make this a comedy. She said, So I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about I have to have Lily Tomlin in this movie. I get in my car and I'm driving home and I turn on the radio, and on the radio is Dolly Parton singing Two Doors Down. Two Doors Down there, laughing and singing and having. And she said, Oh my God. She said, Lily Tomlin, Dolly Parton, me, a movie. And that's how that all came about. So that's pretty amazing that that and they all said yes, with some Lily had some problems. She was very difficult to convince. But Dolly was like, Yeah, I'll do it. And Jane Fonda said that Dolly was so green, so new, that when Dolly arrived on the set for the first day of filming, she had the entire script memorized. She didn't know she didn't have to do that. She didn't know she didn't have to memorize the whole script. She did because she didn't know what to do. And that's just the way she was. That's just the way Dolly Parton was. And my understanding is she memorized the whole script because she didn't understand they didn't film movies out of sequins. Exactly. She never thought she'd be a movie star. She was very, very cognizant of moving her career forward as a singer, as a songwriter, like crossing over into pop with another one of my favorite songs, Here You Come Again. But I don't know that it was in her mind, and she had her TV variety show, but I don't know it was ever in her mind that she would be in a film opposite people like Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin, Sally Field, Shirley McLean, Olympia. That was not in her, but she embraced it and she welcomed it. And the thing about her in Nine to Five is she's so good because she doesn't try to do anything but be Dolly Parker. Exactly. She doesn't push the jokes, she just lets them land. Her timing is on point. And she's so this is why people have always wanted them to remake this movie or make a sequel to this movie because these three women together, my favorite, one of my very favorite scenes. I have so many, but the scene in the hospital, of course, with I've killed the boss. You don't think they're gonna fire me for a thing like that? I love it when they're driving in the car and they go back to the trunk, and Dolly's opens the trunk and she sees Hart's body in the she sees the body, they know the body's in the trunk, and she lifts the cover up and she sees it's not Hart. And she goes, and you see the camera of her with a trunk, and you see her head pop around and she goes, Um, Judy, you want to come back here for a second? And then Jane Fodder comes and then, Violet, honey, you want to come back here for a second? I mean, it's just it's so light and so delicious, and that's why the film works because they're all just playing it brilliantly. I love it. Yeah, and I I hope I didn't make people think I don't love nine to five. It's just uh the other two is is my least favorite, though I will tell you I have watched it 10 million times. I've watched Still Mag Noise 10 million and one times. Do you know the story about how she came up with the song 9 to 5? How that whole thing happened? I heard that she just kind of was doing it between takes and stuff. They didn't even ask her to do it. They didn't, and uh, she finally sang it to the the two of them, and they were like, We've got our song. She was basically true? She has she was basically was between scenes and she was basically just killing time, and she was like uh brushing her nails back and forth on top of each other, and she got she said, Hey, that clicking sound sounds like a typewriter. And that's and jumping out of bed and stumbling, and that's how it started. She just wrote it like that. Like Dolly wrote all her songs, just like that. Just wrote it. And it became a it became a number one hit on pop, on country. I mean, I'm nominated for an Academy Award. I mean, just this woman just did these things without even thinking about it. And it just happened because she happened to be so freaking talented and just so open to it all. She's just said yes to all of it. That's the secret. There's so much in that song for a woman that didn't work in a traditional work environment. There's so many s words in that song that jump out to me as everyone can relate to this in any kind of work environment, whether it be an office or somebody that uh in show business definitely, and that is the They let you dream just to watch them shatter. You're just a step on the boss man's ladder. Who has not felt like that? That's so true. That's so true. But you got dreams he'll never take away. No, it's it's it's it's such an anthem. I mean, it's certainly the in the fabric of my childhood, that song and that film. But I had other songs too that were in the fabric of my childhood. And I think, Brad, this is where I want to invite our special guest because I had a talk with one of our special guests, Dell Shores, who is actually right now in Texas for uh a production of his brand new play, The Recipe Box. So I called Dell on the phone just to get his take because Dell had some definite feelings about the passing of Dolly Parton, some personal stories he wanted to relate and share with us. So we're on, I think I'm at this point, I think I'm gonna uh invite Dell in and uh we'll we'll just enjoy my little my little mini conversation I had with Dell about uh about the true true angel on earth, Dolly Parton. Absolutely. Hey there. How are you, Del? I'm I'm well. You know, it's um we were talking before I hit record, we were saying, we were talking about my favorite dolly song. You were quoting it. I didn't even prompt you, you quoted it. Yeah in light of a clear blue morning. I've been thinking about it all week. It is my favorite dolly song, I think. There's so many. So I want to uh first of all, thank you for for talking with us today on the show. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. I wanted to talk to you because of your connection with everything, Dolly. And I guess I so the first thing I want to ask you is what is your favorite dolly song? Do you have one?

Speaker 5 23:50

Oh god, I love so many. Uh, but I I sent it to you. I think it's do do I ever cross your mind? Yeah, yeah. Because I love the way uh she did it with a cappella with with a lot of folks, and I I love that song because of the dichotomy. It sounds um very happy, and it's really not if you dissect the lyrics. But I mean, yeah you could just make a list coat as many colors. I mean, uh her lyrics are insane, and uh and if the you know, iconic I Will Always Love You, and then of course I love The Seeker because it was in my my um play Southern Baptists in the movie.

Brad Shreve 24:29

You know, so many of her songs sound happy, but if you really listen to them, um I I I think of me, I always think of me and little Andy. Yeah, because it's just awful. It's just an awful, awful song. What happens with that little Andy? You know what I mean? But it's so my sugar brat, don't you bat my candy? And it's just like it sounds like a sweet song, but you're realizing, oh my god, this child's dying. Yeah, and she doesn't even finish the lyric. Me and little eh. Um, it's it's so devastating.

Speaker 3 25:04

Well, he falls down at that point. Yeah, where he fell and he just fell, he collapsed.

Brad Shreve 25:09

Um it's just so yeah, it's hard. I can't give you a I can't, I can't give you a song either. Um, I can only think of light of a clear blue morning for what it's meant to me in times of duress and yeah, in in times when I needed a little strength. Um, I can remember hearing that song and thinking that is gonna get me through this. And I think that's the thing about so many of her songs. That's what we feel about them, right? I mean, that's what their mission, you know, to get help us get through.

Speaker 5 25:40

Yeah, they were and and you know, for me, I'm sure you too. I I'm older than you, but uh, she was just always there. You know, when I was a kid, she had the show, it was Porter Wagner, and and then she had the one where she's on the swing, love is like a butterfly, you know. We just we were religiously watching Dolly, and and uh, you know, it's uh and you know I always say anybody that looks cheap and gaudy, you know, I'm but but it it was so deceptive with her because um she got less and less over the years, you know.

Brad Shreve 26:16

You know, she did.

Speaker 5 26:17

She looked like she refined it some, but so fantastic over the years.

Brad Shreve 26:21

So fantastic. I I I really, I really she did. I remember when she when she lost all that weight um that that time, and she said, I just got my head out of the lard bucket. That was how she explained she explained her weight loss. Do you remember her dying? Oh, yeah, chew and spit. She said, I I I never said I don't say chew and swallow and spit. That's just wrong. I just I just chew and spit. And I was like, oh Dolly, one of a kind. So let me uh because of your because of the fact that you are who you are and your connection with all things of the South. What do you feel? How does she connect? How does Dolly connect to Southern storytelling traditions, if that question makes sense?

Speaker 5 27:13

Well, I mean, you look at her songs and their stories. That's that I mean, they they made some movies out of them because they're literally stories. They're they're what you know, we've we've taken the word ballad and sort of bastardize it because they, you know, it's a slow song. But a ballad truly is a storytelling song or a storytelling poem, and that's what she did so beautifully. Yeah. Um, there were lots of her songs were stories. I mean, you know, obviously I was just thinking of one this morning, the one um where that Amy Lou Harris did, Mama never did say so to he never did say so to mama, uh, where their mother leaves, another tragic, tragic song. But it was a storytelling, and I think that's, you know, I I I think you know I got to meet her twice in meetings uh about projects, and she was just that person that uh you saw. There was no difference. It was it's it was always like that with Leslie as well. They, you know, they were their persona was their their real person. You met him and her. But that's the way it was. And and when I I remember how nervous I was that very first time. It was in the 1992, because my daughter had just been born uh sometime in the fall, because I remember she I was wearing a sweater and she was she was wearing uh a black sweater and black jeans, and she just wanted to meet with me because she had seen my uh daddy's diet who's got the will on the plane, and uh and on a plane, and she had a development deal at the time at ABC, and she said, Oh, that's the writer I want to work with. And so my agent called me, and uh, I know, right? It's like I was just what? I can imagine I can't imagine. And so she said, she actually best often knew how much I loved her. She said, Are you sitting down? And she said, I have a meeting for you, and it's with Dolly Pardon, and just you are to come. Oh my god. She doesn't want any of anybody around, just the two of you. So I uh she had this little bungalow on Norma Place. Uh, just you walked in and it looked like Laura Ashley threw up. It was just so pretty. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, and uh she uh she met me, you know, I rang the intercom and she said, Dale, is that you? And she ushers me in and asks me if I wanted coffee or a beer, and it was nine o'clock in the morning. And I said, I said, Well, I mean golly pardon, I think I should skip the beer and just have coffee. Well, how do you take that? Do you and goes in the kitchen and gets me half and half and serves me? And then she had this idea that she wanted to play an evangelist, a good one. And she said, and you know, there's this little short actor that I saw on Murphy Brown, uh, that's real southern, and I don't know his name. This was some years before Leslie got there. I said, Leslie Jordan, he's one of my best friends. And oh, I skipped something, Tony. When she said she she's very good about knowing about your life, she said, or she said, um your agent said this. No, no, no, no, I Dolly, when I met Dolly, Dolly said, Oh, okay. Oh, she goes, I hear you just had a new baby. Oh, wow. I said, and I said, Yes. And she said, What's her name? And I said, Caroline. And she said, Dell, that's my mother's middle name. Oh, wow. And then I said, and then she said, What's your what's your you have an older daughter, right? And I said, Yes. I said, she's two, almost three. And she said, What's her name? And I said, Rebecca. And she said, Well, I'm Dolly Rebecca. We're destined to work together. And so that's the that's the way it kind of started. And then it ended with her pitching the idea to me and standing up with a track of uh High and Mighty and singing live and saying, I don't have the finished uh the song that inspired myself for this series, but would you mind me singing it for you?

Brad Shreve 31:15

Would you mind? Would you mind? And she and it was just yeah, the meaning of the lifetime. Wow, wow. So that's that's for the what happened, the project. They just didn't they didn't want to move forward.

Speaker 5 31:26

You know what? I have to to tell you the truth. She um she pitched it and she said, uh she kind of got the first the only time I ever remember Dolly getting any flap press wise, she said, these Jewish folks just don't understand this project. And then they and she said, I have nothing. There's not uh Sandy Gallant is my manager. Yeah, I you know, she was she was very much don't don't come for me like that. Um, but uh it just didn't, it just wasn't the right project. And then she went uh to A CBS after that and uh did uh a show that never got on the air. They shot six episodes called Heaven to Beth, uh Heavens to Betsy.

Brad Shreve 32:09

It's it's amazing how many projects she actually did that actually aired or went to series or went. I mean, considering you know the longevity of her career, there are I'm sure there's hundreds that never made it past just like what you're talking about right now.

Speaker 5 32:24

I don't know how she had time to do all she did. I mean, it really was amazing. It was just uh and and and just really quickly, I'll tell you the second time I met her on a uh a uh movie called When Fleeta Goes Marching In with Leslie Jordan, and he was shooting, so he couldn't come to the meeting, and she wanted to meet me at uh she had a place on Cherokee, and there were a bunch of other people coming, but she asked me to come 30 minutes early because she had something she needed to talk to me about privately. And I'm like, Oh my god, what the hell would she have? Well, I had just come out and there was an article in the paper that said, let's just get this all out in the open. And she knew that my dad was a preacher, she knew that my brother was a preacher, and she when I got to when she opened the door, she opens the door and she said, Remember little O May? And she's in a yellow sweater this time and black jeans. And so she says, Um, she said, Come here and sit with me for a second. I need to talk to you about something. She said, I hear there's been a lot of life changes for you. Oh wow. And um, she sat down and she took my hand and she said, How are you? Oh my god, I know it was just the sweetest thing. And I said, Uh I'm doing pretty good. And she said, How's the family? But and she told me she had read the article in the Times.

Speaker 1 33:45

Yeah.

Speaker 5 33:45

And um, I said, Mom's doing great. She said, Mom's always do. And I said, I said, my uh my brother and my dad are having a hard time. She said, give them time and honey, let's see who gets to heaven first. Oh my god. That was yeah, that was that was the second time. So I adore her. It was like when Dolly Parton tells you you're okay. Yeah, damage, right?

Brad Shreve 34:11

Oh my god.

Speaker 5 34:12

So it hit me hard. It just hit me hard. And she, you know, I'm I'm directing my new play in Austin right now, and she's mentioned three times in the play. So of course she is. You know, they quote, I I'll read you really quick. Uh Una says, Um, she Luanda says, It's not right that you're opening that card. Read it. Una says, Happy birthday, big guy. Five words that Dolly wrote and Whitney saying come to mind. Joe. Luanda goes, I have no idea what any of that means. Una says, I will always love you. Dolly Pardon wrote it in Whitney Houston saying it. Oh, the nerve. When Luanda goes, well, maybe Rick won't know either. And she goes, Girl, he's gay.

Brad Shreve 34:56

I think that's what I love about Dolly was that she was just everybody, every she crossed all boundaries. I mean, I think that's what we're we're really realizing now that she's gone is that she there were no everybody, everybody loved Dolly because Dolly loved everybody. It was just who she was. And such an incredible example. And I think one of the things that makes this loss so stinging, first of all, I thought she'd be around forever. But the fact that this was truly an angel on earth who was who was called home. Who is called home?

Speaker 5 35:27

Um, it's amazing. Um, I'd like to believe that. I think I said this cynical atheist. I sure would love this. I'd be, I would love to be wrong.

Brad Shreve 35:38

Well, if she did it right. She did all her, she did her good work. You know what? She did exactly, that's exactly right.

Speaker 5 35:44

Isn't that what we should all be doing? Yes, exactly. Is to to leave here where everybody's talking about you and what how great you were, and nobody's saying one bad word about you. I mean, I'm sorry, but that's not gonna happen with me.

Brad Shreve 35:58

She's going to she did everything you're supposed to do on earth. She was an angel on earth, she really was. She really was. She's so pure at heart. She was. So so what list so since this is a TV and and and movie podcast, is there a particular film that you love uh more than another one of Dolly's? Anything that stands out?

Speaker 5 36:21

Yeah, well, still magnolias. Um yeah, it's still magnolias in nine to five. Those are my two. Just because, you know, uh Southern, I go and teach in that town, Nakadish every year. It's gonna be very odd to see the first thing that Anderson Collins and I did when that night we were like in tears, barely made it through rehearsal, and we get home and we watch Steel Magnolias. You know, and then cried some more. So just hard. Hasn't it been hard for social media? Because it's all you see.

Brad Shreve 36:55

Yeah, I think that people uh after they listen to this, if they want to go watch something, I think Steel Magnolias is so wonderful because I mean, first of all, the iconic line of you know, laughter through tears is my favorite emotion. Um but because she's part of this incredible ensemble and she still manages to create a character yet still be Dolly Parton. That's what I love about Dolly as an actress, as a film actress. Yeah.

Speaker 5 37:21

What's your favorite one?

Brad Shreve 37:23

Um, I think probably I have a soft spot for nine to five just because I love that movie so much. Well, thank you for talking to us. Thank you for visiting us and sharing your your memories and your thoughts about the one and only Dolly Parton.

Speaker 5 37:38

Thanks for having me. Of course, of course. Appreciate it. So y'all, y'all, y'all be good.

Brad Shreve 37:43

Stay strong, stay strong.

Speaker 5 37:45

Yes, absolutely. All right, Tony.

Brad Shreve 37:47

Thanks, Dave. Isn't that great? I mean, that he the stories about his encounters with Dolly, I just they uh they're just that's how you would imagine she would be. So non-judgmental, so so welcoming of of town of people, of different people. I mean, that's the way she was, you know? And so speaking of songs, uh, since Del mentioned some of his songs, I mentioned some of mine. Brad, what are what songs pop into your mind, other than Hard Candy Christmas, that you uh you love about with Dolly? Well, my favorite song is definitely I Will Always Love You. I I just uh I that one just knocks it out of the park for me. But the song I remember first when I first knew of Dolly. You know, first of all, it's funny that people think it's Jolene that they remember from. And Jolene was not a big hit on the on the national charts at first. Do you know now it's her most recorded song? Yes, and everybody thinks that's where they knew her from. But but really the uh the the song that really put her on the charts was uh Here We Come, Here We Go Again. Here you come again. Here you come again. Yes. Okay, sorry. The song, and I love that song, but the song I remember is the one before that, and that is Butterflies Are Free to Fly. Love is like a butterfly, yeah. I remember that as a kid. I remember hearing it, and just that was where I like this is I like this woman. I didn't know enough about her yet. Like most people that aren't in the country scene didn't really know her well until 9 to 5. But there were those hits that she had that we do know before she became a famous actress really stand out. I love I yes, I love is like a butterfly, one of my favorites. I love her early stuff with Porter Wagner. I really do. Uh, you better bring it on, uh You Better Move It On Homeboy. I love that song. Mule Skinner Blues with the whip. You know, but I think when I look back on my favorite songs other than the ones I mentioned, um, I do love Jolene. Jolene is just heartbreaking. But my favorite one is really um Light of a Clear Blue Morning. I can't tell you how many times that song, just those opening lines, um, it's been a long, hard night and I've been waiting for the morning. It's been a long, hard fight, but I see a brand new day adwning. I mean, I can't tell you how many times that song has given me strength to get through whatever it was I was going through, you know, and it's so true because then if you if you stick around long enough through the long dark night, you will see the light of a clear blue morning. And it's just so inspirational and so wonderful. And you know a reason why, another reason why I love it was because the very first time I heard it was from a movie that Dolly was in, which not a lot of people ever talk about, but I gotta tell you, it's a little bit of a guilty pleasure for me. Have you ever seen the film from 1992, Straight Talk? Um the name rings a bell. Uh jog my memory. She plays a radio talk show host, because this was when talk radio was big, was really exploding. Um, and she stars opposite James Woods. No, I've never, I don't think I've ever seen that one. It is not a great film. She plays this character named Jurley Kenyon, and she accidentally becomes a radio advice personality, giving advice like Dolly would give, like you would imagine Dolly would give. But she's, you know, she's not, she's she's Dolly, she's vulnerable, she's humorous, she's she's a working girl, she's trying to make a living, and that quality just runs through you, just identify with her. So even in her, even even in these lesser efforts like straight talk, um, like we gotta mention it, like Rhinestone, which has great songs, but you can't even watch the movie, you can't find the movie anymore more. It's so bad. You just can't, it's nowhere. She's still appealing because she's Dolly Parton. She's Dolly Parton, you know, and and that's what's so wonderful about Dolly is that she carried that personality. She was the personality. And this is when I want to talk about the story that I heard her tell about steel magnolias, because I also want to talk about steel magnolias, and then I want to invite another friend of the pod uh to come in and join us and talk a little bit about his memories of Dolly and what Dolly means to him. But before we do that, so she's a personality. She was brought into films, not as she was not Shirley Booth, she was not Geraldine Page, she was Dolly Parton. So they're making Steel Magnolias, and Steel Magnolias was directed by Herbert Ross. And the stories of what a real prick Herbert Ross was very misogynistic, strangely enough. He was a dance director for years, and he's misogynistic to women. It's terrible the way he treated these women. And he particularly picked on Julia Roberts. I mean, he made, and this was Julia Roberts' what, second movie, third movie? I mean, she this was not, you know, she'd done Mystic Pizza and then this and then Pretty Women. So she was not Julia Roberts yet. She was an actress, a young actress surrounded by icons, surrounded by Sally Field and Olivia Dukakis and Shirley McLean and Dolly Parton. So he he would give Julia Roberts a really hard time just haranguing her, making her cry, just back and forth. And then he tried it with Dolly. And he said to Dolly, What kind of an actress are you? And Dolly turned to him and said, I'm not an actress. I'm Dolly Parton. I'm a personality. It's your job to make me look like an actress. And then she turned on her heel and walked. And I was like, You go, Dolly Parton. You tell that misogynistic son of a bitch. I love that story. Because it's true. She was not an actress, she was a personality. She was Dolly Parton in everything she did from that wonderful cameo on designing women with Charlene on the laptop. Day, the last night of the last year, the last you know, millennium, to her surprise appearance on Grace and Frankie. She's with Dolly Parton, no matter who she played. Yeah, and you know, it's funny when we think of Dolly's movies, I don't think people realize there were really only three. I mean, you had nine to five, Besselow Horehouse, and Still Magnolia. There was Rhinestone, which is very forgettable, and Straight Talk. Straight Talk. And other than that, there was cameos and little things like that, but those are really the only three. Joyful Noise, too. She also did Joyful Noise with Queen Latifa. Yeah, I'm not familiar with Joyful Noise. Much later, much later. But no, that was her prime period. I think that's what people think of. They think of, you're right. They think of 9 to 5, they think of Whorehouse, and they think of Steel Magnolias. Those were the biggest hits. No, I told you that I only listened, watched half of a show. So first I watched Bessel of Whorehouse because I was just in the mood for fun. And then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have to watch Still Magnolias. I actually tried to watch it this afternoon. And I put it on and I'm enjoying it. And you know, I like so many, I can quote every single line in that movie. It's just spectacular, and the lines are amazing. But about a third of the way through, I thought I'd rather listen to her music. So I turned it off and I put on my playlist and I listened to Dolly all afternoon. Oh yeah. I think that what I love about Dolly in Steel Magnolias is that even though she is an in essence Dolly Parton, you can believe this character is real. Yes. You can believe there really is it, there really is a Truvi Jones who owns a beauty salon in Louisiana and looks like that, looks like Dolly Parton. I mean, it would be kind of I love her in nine to five, don't get me wrong, but really, I mean, come on. Would you re would Dorley really exist in the real world? I don't know about that. But I believe Truvy. I believe Truvi's a character, and she's married to Sam Shepard for Christ's sake. Oh my god, that's amazing to me. Sam Shepherd and Dolly Parton in what universe other than Steel Magnolias. Well, coming from North Carolina, I knew Truvi, not Truvi specifically, but I knew a conglomeration of Truvies. Yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure. I mean, just she's she's so similar to so many women I knew, and actually not even just in the South, but especially in the South. So yeah, she's she is a true person, true character to me as well. What's wonderful about Truvi is Truvi, there's an argument that Truvi is really the heart of this film because she's warm, she's observant, she's practical, she's entertaining, she's loving, she's a w she has so much wisdom. You know, laughter through tears is my favorite emotion. She's very funny, but she's also very heartfelt. And the way she takes care of these other women is is just it's it really is the heart. I feel like she's the heart of steel magnolias. I really do. I love everybody else too, don't get me wrong. But I love the fact, and she's so easy. You know, I love Shirley McLean, but I think Shirley McLean is a bit much in Steel Magnolias. I think she's a little too over the top as Wiza. Yeah. I love Olympia Ducoccus, but she says it's a little too therapy in that part. But Dolly is just, she just is. She's natural. She is what screen acting, when it's done right, is really about. She's just being. And that's what I love about her in Steel Magnolias. I I would agree with you, yes. And I think too a large part, uh, as I think you mentioned though, uh, is true in 95. For example, 95. Her character may not have been real, but I feel like she's relatable. I it's hard to really feel like Jane Fonda is a timid, awkward woman. Yes, exactly, exactly, exactly. It was a good movie, and I never thought about it until later. But later I'm like, no. It's kind of like Barbara Streisand trying to do a star is born. No, it's true. Jane, I don't buy Jane Fonda for a minute as Judy in nine to five. She's fun, but first of all, that horrible wig she has on and those those costumes and those glasses. I'm like, Jane, just you maybe do but I would not want it to be anybody else because the three of those women together, uh, once they get once they get heart, you know, once they kidnap heart, that film is just a delightful, delightful film. So I wouldn't want to not see you're in it, but you're right. But uh Lily's just perfect in nine to five. I think that's probably probably what the best thing is. I would agree with you. And you know who Jane Fonda reminds me of? Who? Dorothy and Titsy. It's those glasses. Almost identical. The glasses, the hair. They have the same glasses. The the well, the hair is not the same, but it might as well be. Yeah, it's just, yeah, I it's hardy, you just gotta look past Jane Fonda's appearance in that movie, but it's so good. And and Dolly's wonderful, a natural comedian, and she's wonderful in still magnolias, too. She's a natural, natural actress, and that's what makes her so appealing. She's not trying to act a character, she's just being herself, she's just being Dolly Parton. So, Brad, now I think I would like to uh welcome to the to the show, friend of the pod, Randy Schmidt. And everyone will recognize Randy from being a guest on our show last year when we talked about Karen Carpenter. Well, Karen Carpenter is not Randy's only, he called them his, um, and I'll ask him about this when we're on it. He called them his uh what's a what's another word for three? Trio. Trinity. He called them, he called these people his Trinity. He called Karen Carpenter, Dolly. I can't remember who the three are. We'll ask him when he comes on. So stay tuned. Here's Randy Schmidt. Well, I'm so excited to have another special guest for this very special episode we're doing ongoing Hollywood. And it's my good friend and friend of the pod, by the way, who was with us last year for one of our most popular episodes, Randy. I gotta tell you, absolutely up there. Um, I think it's number one. Don't tell any of our other guests, but I think it's number one. The fabulous Randy Schmidt. Uh, last year you joined me talking about Karen Carpenter. And you know, when we got the bad news last week, uh, my first two thoughts actually were really are you kidding me? I mean, I was just I I couldn't fathom it. And I secondly I thought of you, Randy, because I remember we briefly talked about in last year's episode your holy trinity. And remind the people exactly who populates your holy trinity.

Speaker 9 50:34

Well, it's Dolly, Karen, and Judy. And I don't necessarily have to qualify those names. Karen might need Karen Carpenter because her that that name has come to mean so many other things over the years, but we we all like that, Karen. Um the thing was, it's interesting too, with those three. I've done book projects on all three of them now, but I kind of went in reverse order. Dolly was the one that I was introduced first in my life, and she was the one that I did the book for more recently than the others, and then Judy. Um, Dolly was about two years old, three years old maybe. Judy, four or five, and then Karen, I was 13. So I kind of went in reverse order when I biographied them.

Brad Shreve 51:18

So when you so since you brought that up, what was the first memory of Dolly Parton when you realized that who she was to you personally and more than just a country star?

Speaker 9 51:27

Right. Yeah. Um I don't remember a time before Dolly, and really some of my earliest memories involve her and her music. And I think I was introduced by my grandmother, who was um, you know, a lover of country music, but somebody who also um grew up in the hills. She considered herself a hillbilly um from the hills of Arkansas, and she used to tell me, I can throw my voice just like Reba McIntyre. Her grandma sounds just like Reba. But but you know, she she was somebody that my grandma was this influence, somebody who would walk around the house yodeling, or she would just be humming hymns and then break into a whistle. And but it was her love of Dolly, I think, that rubbed off on me very early in life. And my first memories of Dolly, she was really like my Mr. Rogers because on that syndicated TV show of hers, like mid to late 70s, you know, she would come down on the swing at the beginning, and she would step off the swing after having you know the theme of Love is like a butterfly play. And she'd come down on the swing, she'd step off the swing and walk right toward the camera, and she would look directly into the lens and sing and talk directly to me. And so for me, that was you know, it much in the way that a Mr. Rogers would talk to the children in his audience. That was what I thought this was just a really nice and fabulous lady with lots of sparkles and big hair talking to me. I didn't understand the whole thing. I I remember my my grandma used to say, Back up, you're gonna put your eyes out, which kind of would lead to a funny Dolly Parton joke in multiple ways. But um, you know, I love that in that particular series, Dolly's hair was too big to even fit in the screen. And um it was also kind of confusing to me because they would do those slow fades where they would go from one shot to another, and I didn't understand how there are two of her. Oh wow, and so this is that's how young I really was. It didn't even dawn on me, you know, anything about television technology, anything like that. I'm just like, oh my gosh, there's two of her. And um, so yeah, that was that was really my first memory of her, that television special. And my grandma was the type that bought all the tabloids at the at the grocery store. So I would see lots of pictures and things of her and um you know, country music magazines and things back in that time. And unfortunately, I didn't get to see her until I was much older. I didn't get to see her live as a kid, and I always wanted to, but yeah, that was that was my introduction, and that's I think why she was so special to me because she was really one of my first teachers.

Speaker 6 54:21

Nice story.

Brad Shreve 54:22

I I love that story, it's a great growing up story with Dolly. I barely remember when I first remember her from as well, and I'm glad I get to see you. I love the Karen episode as well. I was moving, so I didn't get to join that episode. Uh, since you've already talked about the television, and we're talking about Dolly everywhere as far as her music, TV uh film, but let's stick with film and TV since you brought it up. Which of her film and TV performances uh strike you as let's say her best uses of her natural gifts? Where are we seeing Dolly? Let's see.

Speaker 9 54:58

Uh, I mean, I think everybody gravitates toward nine to five because it was her first, and she was so well, I mean, she's she always plays a version of herself, is what makes all of her characters so special, I think, because um, you're not getting Dolly Parton acting so much, you're getting Dolly Parton channeling herself through this character. And so, you know, as much as I love moments from Nine to Five and Whorehouse and Steel Magnolias, there's something about straight talk that I absolutely love.

Brad Shreve 55:30

Randy, oh my so before before you came on, Brad and I were talking on air, or on air, whatever, I confess to my special feelings for straight talk. How for I it's like my secret guilty thing that I love straight talk, and everyone always looks at me like, straight talk, what what's that? I don't even know what it is. Yeah, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to find it. I don't know this film at all. That's so funny, right?

Speaker 9 55:55

It's so um camp and has so many cliche moments and things, but it's also so honest and tender at times. And it's her. It's just it's her.

Brad Shreve 56:07

It's like Dolly Parton as a radio therapist. I mean, it's her, and all of her sayings and all of her wisdom, her her homespun wisdom is in that character. And I mean, there's other characters that are like that, but I there's something about Dolly and Straight Talk that I think it's because it's her later Dolly. You know, she lost all the weight and she looked great, and I don't know. I I love that. And it also starts with Light of a Clear Blue Morning is is my favorite Dolly song.

Speaker 1 56:33

So the movie one of my favorites. It's so great.

Speaker 9 56:36

Well, and it has that great line where where she's asked where she went to college and she says, Screw you. Screw you, yeah.

Brad Shreve 56:46

Do you think that then I see I'm always fascinated by the fact that she did so many things? Um, what what do you think about people? I mean, she was a business person, she wasn't a movie star, she was a singer. Do you think Dolly planned all that? Do you think it was something that she knew she was going to do, or do you think she just said yes to the next opportunity and it just happened to be nine to five? Or it just happened to be Dollywood, or it just happened to be I Will Always Love You. How do you think that all happened in her life?

Speaker 9 57:20

The more I dig into it, it was absolutely a master plan. And that doesn't mean that she knew every little thing that she was gonna have, you know, for sure. Like it, I don't know that she knew she would have a Dollywood in 1977, but she sure did several years before that. Like, I I feel like she knew that she wanted to do everything possible, and um, I think she did take a lot of opportunities, you know, some of them that didn't go so well for her, and some of them that we we see now occasionally online were like, wait, she did that, like you know, stuff that totally flew under the radar. But um she absolutely knew from very early on that she wanted to be more, and um, you know, even talking about her acting, how we said that she plays a version of herself, that was what she said from the very beginning. If I ever do it, I'm not gonna take acting lessons because you know that's not what she wanted to do, and she would have to find a character that was that was like her. And um, yeah, I think absolutely it was it was a master plan from very early on, and not that she knew every detail of what it would become and that she would have you know um frozen dinners at Walmart, but but um I mean she she is everywhere, and it's it's interesting that a lot of people only know her for one thing here and there. Those are those of us or those those people who don't follow her every move, like some of us. But I remember when I pitched my Dolly book to um Chicago Review Press, my editor there was mostly a jazz guy. I mean, he he knew Carpenters and everything, and he had been the one who um he had been the the editor who who got that that book started there. And when I pitched Dolly, he was very hesitant. And it was because he only knew that one thing about her. He knew that she was a country singer and thought of it as a country singer from the past. And I just remember like, what? Like, where have you been? And and he said, he finally said, Well, I asked around the office, and they all looked at me like I was crazy. That that book, um, I pitched it, I think, 2015 or something like that. It came out 2017, and it was still a time that that Dolly wasn't as uh concentrated as she has been, I think, in these last 10 years. I I I feel like it it coincided with that time that she really started working with a lot of people again, not that she had taken time off, but she really started collaborating with people of all different genres. You know, she's she would record something with Brandy Carlisle, and she'd record something with Sabrina Carpenter, even more recently, you know, all these things I think she realized expanded her fan base tenfold. Like every time she she did something with these people, she pulled in their fan base as part of her own, I think. So very smart in so many ways.

Brad Shreve 1:00:20

The book that Randy's talking about, his book is called Dolly on Dolly. And it's a interviews and uh encounters with Dolly Parton, right?

Speaker 9 1:00:29

Yeah, it's part of a series from Chicago Review Press. And my first one that I did with them was a Judy Garland book. And with Dolly, it worked so well because it brought together 50 years of her in the press. Uh, we have one of her very first interviews ever given for uh Music City News, and I was able to track down the audio for that and then transcribe it. So it's not just the original that was printed in 1967, you know, when she was um barely known in Nashville, just kind of starting out with the Porter Wagner show. But um we were able to track that interview down and and transcribe it in its entirety, and then epic ones along the way, Playboy, Rolling Stone, um, interview magazine with Andy Warhol. And so bring all those together in one place. It was it was really cool to do that.

unknown 1:01:19

It's cool.

Brad Shreve 1:01:20

And then a lot of people, I think you said it was your boss that only knew her as a country singer. A lot of people only knew one side of Dolly, and I think over this past week, a lot has come out and people are learning that there were multi-aspects of Dolly. There was her singing, her songwriting, her she's great at business, her acting. So, with all that new stuff coming out, what is something that you know that you think more people should know?

Speaker 9 1:01:50

Um gosh, something that she's you know done or that that's not got the the attention it should, something like that?

Brad Shreve 1:01:57

Yeah, or or just something that may surprise people.

Speaker 9 1:02:01

Um I I think that a lot of it recently has been how she was able to maintain such a private life while at the same time be so open and making you think that she was telling you everything about her because she was so open and free with so much. And then what she didn't want you to know, she just moved on to the next subject with however that that worked for her. And you know, it's fascinating to see the the evolution of a very quick evolution of the things that she would say about her marriage in early years, um, because at first it it sounded very much like an open agreement between her and her husband, and I'm sure that there were some people that didn't respond well to that, and it very quickly turned to, you know, we each do our our own thing and we're we're respectful of one another. And um I I think she was way ahead of her time in the way that she dealt with the press. And she she saw very quickly what worked and what didn't work, and then the next time she was on, she had made an adjustment in that way. And um to the point that we got these dollyisms, as people call them, you know, those those quick one-liners or those witty little stories that if if she was ever maybe cornered, so to speak, in an interview or asked a really tough question that she was not going to answer. She wouldn't get uncomfortable about it or anything else, she'd just drop one of those and move right on. And so I think she was pretty brilliant in the way that she handled that sort of thing.

Brad Shreve 1:03:39

So canny, so incredibly smart. The furthest thing from her, this dumb blonde image of her was how she manipulated the press and her image. And I remember thinking about then there was that time where, and especially the Carl Dean thing. I mean, who does that? Who's married to someone for almost 60 years and nobody's ever seen him? Or seen him, it's been, I mean, he's like, you know, he's like Bigfoot, you know, the legend of Carl Dean. No one sees him, no pictures in the inquirer with anything over hiding his face. He just wasn't there. And I remember one time when she talked about when there were rumors about the fact that she was in a relationship with Judy, with her secretary or her best friend like that. And she's so Dolly. She, I remember she said, We don't make love, but we've made a lot of love. And she left it at that. So you're like, oh, okay, I'm not really sure what that means, but they went on to the next question, and that was Dolly. She was so smart in the fact that she could get out this little um sound bite, and they go on to the next question.

Speaker 9 1:04:40

I think that's real quick.

Brad Shreve 1:04:43

Brilliant, brilliant. You so we talked about when you're on the show before, we talked about your incredible Karen Carpenter documentary, Karen Carpenter Starving for Perfection. Still available on Amazon for people to watch. Um, and you are working on a documentary when we got this news last week. Can you tell us if you can about the documentary you're currently working on in the subject matter?

Speaker 9 1:05:08

Yeah, you know, we've been working on this. I I pitched it to AMS Pictures, who also did the Karen Carpenter documentary when I knew I was going to be coming on to work with them um part-time in my my new retirement. I just retired recently from almost 30 years. Congratulations. Teaching elementary music. Um so this back to school was very different, very much more relaxed. But I was I I pitched it probably back in April or something, and we did um the first and the major interview for it with um Lawrence Grobel, who was the the guy who really he didn't originate the Playboy interview, but I think he um is most representative of of you know the best Playboy interviews. Um, and that really was the gold standard for a lot of celebrity interviews during those days. And it's it's been amazing to see how much he Massed to tell this story, which is like 16 or 17 pages in the magazine. But he had, you know, literally hundreds and hundreds of transcribed pages and notes and you know references here and there and cross-references, and it's just really cool to see his process. But um it the the documentary that that I pitched is called Dolly Uncovered, with kind of a play on the cover um idea because it really the plan was for it to focus around um her doing Playboy as part of that she didn't really like to think of it as a crossover, but that bridging, you know, that she did going from country music to pop music and pop worldwide pop icon, you know, with all that happened in the years following. So this is that 1977-78 period where she tells Barbara Walters, I don't want to just be a star, I want to be a universal star. And um, it was shortly thereafter that that this guy, um, Larry Robel got the the assignment with Playboy. And you know, most people, especially in recent years, would be lucky to get 10 minutes with Dolly, you know, in a rotating kind of press junket sort of way. But this guy not only, you know, had five hours the first time they got together at her apartment, but then he went on the road with her and was on her bus and they had adjoining motel rooms and would stay up till five in the morning and talk. And it's just unprecedented access. And they they became quick, close friends. And you know, he interviewed her again for uh Play Girl magazine during the time of um nine to five. He talks about you know picking her up on the set of nine to five, and of course, her clicking her nails and showing him the song that she was working on at the time. You know, it's not in the past, like she told it so many times. She was actually saying, Here's what I'm doing. And um, he interviewed her again for um Red Book years later, and it really was uh an interesting relationship. And the more that I have dug into the interview we did with him, I realized that's the story here. I mean, it's Dolly's story and it's this transition that she made, but she called, like you asked earlier. Do I think that she planned this? Absolutely, because she she lays it all out in what she told him at that time in 1978, and you know, she would talk to him over the years about wanting to do a wig line, and then it happened, wanting to do a Disney-like park, and it happened, and so um it's it's really fascinating to have him telling these stories and to um, you know, we're gonna have some some kind of stylistic recreations of them, eight millimeter look. Um, because they would sit on the bus for hours, and I I love that he talks about, you know, for four hours I hadn't looked away from her. He kept journals through all of this, which are really fascinating. And so we'll get to go between journal Larry and present-day Larry commenting and looking back. Um it's it's really fascinating. So it's called Dolly Uncovered, is our working title for it, and hoping it's out, you know, end of the year or first of the year. Obviously, we we had hoped that Dolly would be here for it. And I've even talked for at length with her niece, Rebecca Siever, who's in charge of her archives now and um is the curator for all the museums and things like that. And uh, she was like, Playboy is my favorite, um, you know, favorite photo shoot that she's giving. And you know, I think with somebody else who passes continuing on with the Playboy subject could be seen like, I don't know. Is that because I think the tendency would be people to maybe think you're gonna like turn something into a funeral like dirge like kind of you know, looking back tribute. But I think the thing that Dolly would like more than anything is to keep celebrating that playful side of her. And you know, she she never once said that she regretted doing the Playboy cover or the Playboy interview. She said it was one of the best interviews she ever gave. And you know, she she just embraced it. She was never ashamed of having done that. And I think she knew that that was one piece to that to that bridge that she that she needed and wanted to go from you know a country singer making a few thousands to making which what what'd she say? Why why would would I make you know um a couple of thousand when I could make you know hundreds of thousands?

Brad Shreve 1:10:35

So smart, so smart. That's so cool. We look forward to that. Wow. Well, this has been so great. Thank you for popping in, Randy. Thank you for having me talking with us about one of your Trinity women. Hey, you know, I love Judy too. Brad loves Judy. She's already passed, but maybe we'll have you in to make the complete Trinity sometime. Um, thank you so much. And I will be anxiously waiting for this documentary to come out. So awesome. Thank you.

Speaker 9 1:11:03

It's very different, it's really different than anything else.

Brad Shreve 1:11:05

It sounds fascinating, it sounds great. Keep your eyes open for that. People go buy your book. Your book's still available, obviously, Dolly on Dolly. It's wonderful as well. I read it. So thank you, Randy, for joining us. Uh, good luck with everything, and I hope we can talk again sometime soon.

Speaker 9 1:11:19

Thank you.

Brad Shreve 1:11:26

That was fun. So it was nice to have uh thank you, Randy. Thank you, Del, for coming in and giving your your personal recollections and your feelings about Dolly. I'm excited about Randy's documentary when it comes out. It's gonna be, if it's anything like his Karen Carpenter documentary, I'm sure it's amazing. So um we should probably I'd like to wrap up this episode, Brad, because it really was just kind of like a remembrance where we could touch on things. What did you what is Dolly? I guess what I'm gonna ask you is what does Dolly mean to you personally? As a man, as a writer, as a gay man, what do you what what was she what did she mean to you? I definitely want to tell you, but I want to tell you a really quick snippet of a story. All right, I had a boss that grew up in Severeville, and I gotta tell you, I knew Pigeon Forge in Severeville before Dollywood. And boy, that was a depressed, poor area. In fact, I wrote a song back when I, in my early songwriting days that went nowhere, I wrote a song that included a line about Pigeon Forge. But this boss of mine grew up in Severeville and she went to school with Dolly. And uh I looked up and found this is true because I wasn't sure if she would just tell me a story. At their school, the older students actually act as mentors to the younger students. Uh-huh. So she was Dolly's mentor, and she told Dolly, she told Dolly that she thinks she should pursue her studies in home economics.

unknown 1:12:55

What?

Brad Shreve 1:13:00

Thankfully, Dolly didn't listen. Thank God. Oh my god. So anyway, how do I feel about Dolly? And you know, like everybody, I loved Dolly. First of all, because she's just cute and adorable, and it's her what does that is her authenticity. And we touched on it that people that knew her on a personal level said that what you saw is what Dolly is, maybe tuned up a little bit, which is no surprise. Uh, she's a little more reserved when she's not on stage, but not much. Uh, she's absolutely hilarious. Self-deprecating, her self-deprecating humor is never mean to herself. It's always just funny because she doesn't take herself seriously. Her good heartedness, we all have heard over the past week about her charitable contributions. Many that none of us knew about, the people were coming forward and said, hey, such is the thing with COVID. I don't think most people know that she gave a million dollars to help find a cure for COVID. A million dollars of Vanderbilt. And the Imagination Library has given over 200 million books to children in need. That's phenomenal. That's unbelievable. And here's the thing that doesn't surprise me. I watched a video yesterday from the the uh CEO or the president of the Imagination Foundation. And he said, you know, everybody's worried about what's gonna happen. Dolly and I had this discussion years ago about what will happen when she passes. And this has all been put into place. We planned for this, we're brokenhearted, but nothing will change. In fact, you're gonna see more kids getting books. And that doesn't surprise me that she made sure that that was gonna continue.

Speaker 1 1:14:50

That's that's that's the woman. That's the woman.

Brad Shreve 1:14:53

Yeah, so she wasn't she she was incredibly generous, and she sings like an angel. Yeah, but on top of that, those are the reasons I love her. But you also have to respect on top of all of that, that she was so incredible as a business person and her craft as a songwriter. All of that together just makes an person that's like uh bigger, bigger than life. Totally, bigger than life, big hair, big hair, big hair, big boobs, but she also famously said, I want people to know there's a brain beneath the wigs and a heart beneath the boobs. And that was Dolly Parton, a heart like nobody's business, a brain like nobody's business. You know, when she first started out, people said, uh, do you get upset when people make fun of your look, when people make fun of your image? And she said, I ain't gonna change my image. I'm gonna make a fortune off of it. And she sure as hell did it. And those are the things I love about Dolly. You know, it takes a lot of money to look this cheap. Things like that. She she called the shots before anybody else could. She was totally in charge of her. I think that's what I love most about her. She was totally in charge of her life, of her legacy. Look at what we are dealing with now that she's gone. And this song that's going to be released in what, 2046? And when she was at her uh her 100th birthday, she had to arrange for this now that her final song to be released at 100. It's it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. But I think mostly what I find moving about Dolly, what moves me the most is the songs. The songs that help me, help me find the light of a clear blue morning when the night seems very dark. And you can go through her song catalog. And I gotta tell you, you know, there's always gonna be a song that's gonna relate to what you're going through. And if you find that song, it'll help you out. So it's been a sad week. It's been a very sad week, but it's been nice to share this with you, Brad, and with our guests, special guests. Thank you, Del. Thank you, Randy, thank you, everybody. Uh, before we wrap this up, Brad, is there anything you want to say about uh Dolly or the podcast or anything else? Well, I'm gonna say my usual, and I almost don't want to because we we I'm so hooked on Dolly right now. But uh if you enjoy the podcast, please wait and review this podcast so others will know that you enjoy it and they'll listen to. Uh, you can do that on Apple, Spotify, or most anywhere that you're listening to this podcast. In addition, we'd love to hear from you. Um, you know, let's let's ask people to do something. Send us a message, send us a text message. We'd love to hear you do a voice recording on our voicemail. Text or voice can be done in the show notes. There's a link there, or send us an email at goinghollywoodpod at gmail.com. Tell us what do we want to ask them to do, Tony? We want them to reach out to us. We want them to send us a text message, an email. Let us know your favorite Dolly movie, your favorite Dolly song, how Dolly has touched your life in some way, real or imaginary. I mean, she's touched everybody's lives. That has definitely been borne out these past few weeks since we lost her. She was universally loved, I think, by everybody. So let us know. Let us know. Right, Brad? You think it's a good idea? I think it's an excellent idea. That's why you suggested it. All right, so this is usually the point where I say, I've had such a good time, and I have. I don't want to say goodbye. I only have one thing left to say. But I can't say it because I have more than one thing left to say this week. I have several things to say, usually. Um, first of all, we want to say that this was a lot of fun, but it was a lot of work. And Brad and I decided that we needed we need a week off. We really do. It's it's the end of summer, Labor Day. We deserve a week off. So we're taking next week off. So for our people who like to listen to us every week on Wednesday, there won't be a brand new episode dropping this coming Wednesday next week. Um, so just go back and listen to our previous 99. There's a little hint for you, episodes that we have recorded. And then in two weeks, when we're back with a brand new episode, what's that gonna be, Brad? What are we gonna be doing? We are gonna celebrate that we broke the odds. The average podcast only lasts five to seven episodes before they fade away. Oh my god. We have gone well beyond that. Our next episode is drum roll, please, one hundredth episode. Our hundredth episode. I cannot believe I've stood in front of this microphone and looked at you through this computer a hundred times. It's been more than a hundred times, but a hundred times. Officially, that's astounding to me. And ladies and gentlemen, if you know anything about Brad, you know this is not going to be a standard 100th episode. No clips. This is not a clip episode because we know how Brad feels about clip episodes, don't we? Yes, you're correct. No clips. No clips. I made that clear. This is going to be a really fun, cool episode. That was Brad's idea. So I thank you for that. So, ladies and gentlemen, yes, in two weeks we will we will be back celebrating our hundredth, hundredth episode. It's very exciting. And and and even though it's Brad's idea, it is a good one. For a change. They're always good, Brad. Well, I guess that leaves me with just one thing left to say for reels. But I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye, Brad. In the spirit of our heroine of the hour. Let's just say everything's gonna be alright. It's gonna be okay. And I'm gonna stick with that and not say what I normally say. That's nice. So see you in two weeks, everybody. Goodbye, everybody.

Speaker 1:21:06

Ebbity, every that's all, folks.