Welcome And Why Friends

Brad Shreve 1:52

Hello, I'm film historian Tony Mayetta. And I'm Brad Schreed, who's just the guy who likes movies. We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too. And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter. As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood. Brad, could I be more excited for our episode today? I don't think I've seen you this excited. I know. That was the big punch you were going to give me when I responded. I know! Oh Lord. Well, we've had better beginnings, but anyway. Oh Lordy, Lord. This is no, I am really excited. I'm very excited about this. We've been we've been trying to do this for a while. Um, so I'm glad that we are doing it today. And for people who didn't get those clues, we are talking about one of my favorite shows of all time, friends. Yes, we're talking about friends today on Going Hollywood. You know, I didn't tell you when we decided this that I think friends sucks. No, you I'm not gonna buy it, Brad, because we've already had this discussion. Because I already asked you when I okay, here's the background on this, okay? Because we're kind of going out of our parameters. You know, we usually stop at 1990. Um, and friends started in 1994. But so when I I very hesitantly suggested it to Brad because I've been in such a friends mode. I just, and you said this to me, that's why you didn't fool me. Because I said, Would you consider talking about friends? I I, you know, thinking maybe you hated it. And you said, no, I would love to talk about it because it's such a important show in television history. Do you remember saying that to me? I do, and I said that it's hard to find anybody that doesn't love the series. Right? Well, I know a couple people who don't, but they're old and curmudgeon. Oh, I know a few, but there's a lot to there's a lot to hate here if you want to dig into it. But you know. Yeah, but this is not that. This is and we'll get into those. I have a couple episodes that actually touch on those. So this is a for me, it's a celebration, you know. And I I agree. I agree. I wanted to do Friends because I've been ever since uh Lisa Coudreau came back in the final season of the comeback. Um, I was so like bereft of Valerie Cherish of not seeing Valerie Cherish. And I thought, well, I'll I'll watch a couple Friends episodes. And boy, did I get back into it. Boy did boy Michael, poor Michael is so happy he never has to hear again because it was driving him crazy, all the clapping. Um, and I just absolutely fell in love with the show again, as as I did when it first aired. Well, I'm gonna throw some trivia at you just to depress you, oh, and maybe a large number of our audience. Okay. Ben, Ross's son, yeah, today would be 32 years old, older than the original cast, and Monica and Chandler's children will have just graduated college about a year ago. Yeah, wow. Maybe this year. And so would Emma, uh, Rachel's daughter, would be like what? 30, probably. Somewhere around there. No, uh, probably. I'm not sure what year Emma was born. No, she'd be she'd be in her mid-20s, she'd be in her mid-20s. Um, that's you know what? That's not that depressing. That's not that depressing to me. I mean, I yeah, look, did you see the reunion special and from 2021 when they did the thing on HBO with James Corden? I did. I didn't um uh watch it for this episode, but I did watch it back when it came out. So, I mean, you know, we all know we're all 30 years older. It's just there's no way to escape it. But what's so wonderful is going back and watching this show again because this is our generation, this is generation X. And I think that's what a lot of people who aren't in Generation X maybe have problems with this show because these these are our people. This is when they were 30, I was 30 or a little bit older, you know, and it's so I think that's why I identify it with so much. Also, because I used to see Matt LeBlanc at auditions all the time. And yeah, anyway, we won't go there. Um, and you know, it's just funny that this I so much of this, this is my generation, this speaks to me, this show, and everything that was happening before cell phones, before the internet, you know, when you actually had to go out and socialize and relate to people, and when there were places like coffee shops where everybody was actually talking to each other and not sitting next to each other on their phones, texting each

Watching The 1990s With New Eyes

Brad Shreve 6:57

other. It's just so terrible. You know, what I miss about this era was you know, back when we were able to, on virtually no pay, afford huge luxurious apartments in big cities. You know, as white folk, we had no uh friends with any diversity. Uh uh diversity. We it should be called white friends. We did all kinds of uh homophobic jokes and everybody laughed. No, I don't mean those are the those are some of the things that actually some of the episodes I I love the episodes I chose, but they do touch on those that people complain. And um, it's funny that we can look it back at those and just say, that was nuts, and still love the show. What I love is that that the creators and the actors did not were not tempted ever to go back and revisit this show. That's why the reunion was as themselves, not as the characters. Yes, and like they did with Sex in the City and try to make up for all that. They're like, no, it was of that time, it was of that era. Yes, we know there are problems here. There's problematic storylines, problematic characters, problematic comments. However, that was the time. Yes, and as I've said a million times, you can't cancel the past, you just have to try to do better. And I really feel that this, although, yes, sometimes I'm like, really, really, did you just really say that, Chandler? Did you really say that? I still laugh because it's still funny, it's still wonderfully written and hysterically funny, in my opinion. Witty, so funny. I agree 100%. If there's if there these things happened in a show today, I would cringe, but whether you like it or not, you have to carp car compartmentalize it. Yeah, there, I got it out. You did good for you. Good for you.

Series Facts And Why It Mattered

Brad Shreve 8:45

So we've got Friends, which ran on NBC from September 22nd, 1994 to May 6th, 2004. 10 years, 236 episodes. For anybody who doesn't know what Friends is about, hello, what the hell? Um, it's six young men and women living in the same apartment complex and facing life and love together in Manhattan. And as Brad said, living in impossibly wonderful apartments, having absolutely so much time to socialize and hang out at coffee shops, even though they have full-time jobs. Yeah, it's just it's it's as we said with that girl, aspirational, aspirational. There's actually a term, it's called aspirational normalcy, which that's the last time you're gonna hear me say that, but that's what this is. That's what this was designed to be aspirational normalcy. So, you know, just take that for whatever it is. Actually, I have a question. You said that they live in the same park apartment complex. Now, Ross had a separate apartment somewhere. Yeah, did we ever see where Phoebe lived? I don't recall that ever. Oh, we did, okay. Rachel, Rachel lived with Phoebe for a f like half a season, and then there they had a fire in their apartment because Rachel kept her straightening iron. Is that what that's called? Her curling iron, but that straightens hair and started a fire. Hair straightener. And then Rachel moved in with hair straightener. And then why couldn't I think of that? And then um Rachel moved in with Joey. So, yes, we did see Phoebe's apartment. Do we want to go? Do you want to go through the cast? You want me to go through the cast in case these people don't know who these people are? What do you think? Oh, you can go through the cast. Okay. So these, and here's something interesting. This is alphabetical because, and we'll get into this and the parody and how they all were six of one. Um, so we have, of course, the marvelous, wonderful, beautiful Jennifer Aniston as Rachel Green. We have Courtney Cox, the luminous Courtney Cox as Monica Geller Bing. I'm gonna use full names. We have the fabulously talented Lisa Coudreau as Phoebe Buffet Hannigan, we have the very sexy Matt LeBlanc as Joey Tribbiani, the hysterically funny Matthew Perry as Chandler Bing, and My Secret Crush, yes, it's true, David Schwimmer as Ross Geller. So these are our friends, and we also had Paul Rudd, James Michael Tyler as Gunther, Maggie Wheeler as Janice, full name Janice Littman, Goralnik, Nay Hosenstein, Tom Salak, Jessica Hecht, Jane Sibbett, and a whole slew of 1990s movie stars in this show. Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt, Bruce Willis, Sean Penn. It's insane. It's insane the people who came on this show. It really is. And you mentioned your crush uh oh who plays Ross, David Geller, David Swimmer, David Swimmer, David Swimmer. Yeah, you know, and a lot of people have said that, and I during the series run, I didn't think so. Now I look back, I'm like, wow, he was really cute. I had like many, I had the massive hots for Matt LeBlanc, and it started back. I remembered when that show started, and I'm like, that is the guy from the Heinz catch-up commercial. Yes, exactly. When that show came on, and then he ended up on Married with Children, and then he got his own series, that horrible series. What was it with Carla's husband from Cheers? Who Matt LeBlanc? Yes. He did Joey, and then he did episodes.

unknown 12:22

Okay.

Brad Shreve 12:23

Oh, there was oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Man, uh, what's it called? I know exactly what you mean. It was after episodes, but I can't think of the name of it. Oh, it wasn't Carla's husband, it was the uh he was on Married with Children as a guy that was after um the blonde, whatever her name was, um, on the show. And he uh they spun him off. It was really hot, but boy. It wasn't Man with a Plan. Are you talking about Man with a Plan that ran like four years? It may have been. Okay. I think he and his dad were always trying, whatever. He had the TV series that wasn't very good, and he was on Married with Children, but I will always remember him as the Heinz Ketchup, hot boy that's waiting for the ketchup to fall from several stories up, as well as he was on the cover of Spartacus, the gay travel magazine. Oh, you go, Matt LeBlanc. Did he know that? You don't remember that? Did you know that? Yes, I because I remember seeing it after the Heinz Ketchup commercial. I was underage, but I went to an adult bookstore, and there was Spartacus with his picture, and I was so excited. I'm like, oh my god, he's gay. And of course, he said, No, for the kids out there, Spartacus was a gay travel guide that talked about all the cities you could go to. And you know what makes me think of is that funny line when he says to Chandler. I'm just gonna ask you this once. Were you or were you not on a gay cruise? Because anyway, I'm not gonna do that. So to further explain for those, it was a typical early modeling job where you have no rights whatsoever. You just model, and they bought his picture to be on the magazine. Or so the story. I forgot, I forgot two people, and I'm sorry I did that because two of my very favorite people in the show are Christina Pickles, oh, one of my favorite actresses, and Elliot Gould on Mon as Monica and um Ross's parents, uh, the Gellers, and they are so deliciously funny. Christina Pickles has some of the funniest, funniest takes in this. She's just a brilliant actress. She is. And Elliot Gould. Could you see anybody who looks more like David Schwimmer than Elliot Gould? I mean, it's it's kind of crazy. I wonder if Jason's like, hey, are you my half-brother? Because it's nuts. And you remember where I loved Christina Prickles? Christina Prickles? You remember St. Elsewhere, of course. Yes, yes. She was wondering, she was my favorite character on St. Elsewhere, and I was so excited I loved her on this series. Did you mention, by the way, Marlo Thomas when you gave the list of people that have been on the show? I didn't. I did talk about her in our That Girl episode, but no, I didn't mention um Marlo Thomas as Rachel's mother and Ron Liebman as Rachel's father. Uh if that matters to anybody. Um, so I have a couple. I want to we'll go into our a little uh background of the series, of course.

Emmys, Trends, And How It Was Shot

Brad Shreve 15:09

We always do, but I did have uh a couple trivia questions for you, Brad. I just want to see if you knew this. Oh dear. Oh dear. No, it's it well. You know how my you know how my memory is. So the series won six primetime Emmy Awards from 62 nominations, and it won one Emmy for Outstanding Comedy Series in its eighth year, which also happened to be the when the year the show was the most watched program in the United States. That's very odd. That's very unusual for a TV show to hit number one in its eighth year, but it was also because it was post-9-11, and people truly looked at friends as comfort food uh during this very difficult time. And I and they think that's why it probably hit number one. But do you know who was the only actor out of these this six incredible murderers row of comic actors never to be nominated for an Emmy? Uh I'm gonna guess Matt LeBlanc. Nope, you would be wrong. I'm sorry. Good guess, though. You had one out of six.

unknown 16:15

What is that?

Brad Shreve 16:17

Less than 25%, certainly. Um, no, this is really sad. The only actor to never receive an Emmy nomination was ironically the most famous one when the show started, Courtney Cox. She never got a nomination, and I think Courtney Cox's work in this show is so outstanding as Monica. The depths, the levels she gives Monica are fantastic. I don't understand that. I have a guess why. I have a guess why do you think? She's the one that seemed the most natural.

unknown 16:48

Yeah.

Brad Shreve 16:49

She wasn't playing a care. I mean, she had her quirks, obviously, and that was part of what made Monica funny, but she didn't feel like she was playing a character as much as the rest of them. And I'm not that's not a diss on the rest of them. I can see that. It's almost like, yeah, I get that. She was the air quotes normal one, even though she wasn't. Yeah. Um, and that's because Courtney Cox is such a skilled actress that she was able to bring those kind of quirks to Monica. Um, I can't, I I can I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. Um, do you know who the only actor to win an Emmy in a lead category was? Uh leading. Leading. Oh, for this show? No, for that girl. Yes, for this show. I didn't think anybody did. Uh I this is gonna be a total guess. I'm gonna say swimmer. No. Boy, I'm striking out. Jennifer Aniston won uh Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actress in a comedy. Oh, you said actress. Actress, yes, I'm sorry. In 2002. However, Lisa Coudreau won an Emmy in 1998 for Best Supporting Actress. And this is what's interesting. So up until 2002, they all submitted themselves as supporting. And then after 2002, they all submitted themselves as lead. It's all part of that all for one and one-for-all uh manner that the that the actors had. They didn't do anything without it being for everybody, and we'll get into how that went on. So, you know, it the show the show is ranked in the top 10 every single year, number one, as I said, in its eighth year. And you know, what's amazing about Friends is that it was one of the last, or I don't know if there are that many multi-cam shows anymore, really. Certainly that that are filmed, no. But Friends had the longest shoots of almost any sitcom, sometimes upwards of five hours to film 22 minutes. That's how exacting the producers and the creators and the writers were to make sure they were getting the best joke and the best take that they possibly could. Now, when we talked about Lucy, I told you Lucy usually shot a half hour and an hour and a half. You know, I mean it was very fast. Friends would take up to six hours to film one 22-minute episode. It's pretty amazing. Pretty amazing how how exacting they were. Exhausting, too, I'm sure. Uh yeah. You know, and that doesn't surprise me at all. A couple other things that I that I just want to watch before we get into the background. Um, so friends started many trends, and I think the one that we can all point to, and the one that's most famous, is the Rachel. Do you know what the Rachel is, Brad? Well, I certainly remember when everybody had Rachel's hair. Yes. Or at least a lot of women had Rachel's hair. It's the haircut that Jennifer Anderson had in the first two years of the show, which started a fashion trend, a trend which she hated. She really, really did not like the fact that her haircut was so famous and that she was known for this haircut. It really bothered the actress. And did you know that the original concept of the show, the main couple was going to be Joey and Monica and not Ross and Rachel? Did you know that? No, I didn't. That's really hard to imagine. Well, but very, very hard to imagine. When you think about it, I mean, you Courtney Cox and Matt LeBlanc, two of the most beautiful people ever to be on television, and they kind of hint at it when they do the flash, some of the flashback episodes, that maybe there was a little chemistry. But when they be when they hired these actors and they began working on this show, they really saw that the real meat of this entire series was between Ross and Rachel. And that was the through line basically of the entire series. Even though, as a couple, the characters were only together for about a year and a half. But over 10 years, that was the driving force of this show was will they, won't they, will they, won't they, will they, won't they? Um, so I think it was kind of interesting that that uh that that was the original driving force. Yeah, I would never never have guessed that. So we're gonna, as we always do, we are gonna talk about four episodes. I picked two, Brad picked two. It was so difficult. I always say that. But when a show has 236 episodes, it was so difficult to pick two, especially because I love so many episodes. So we do have a couple honorable mentions. Uh, but before we get into that, we are going to do a little, I'll do a little history of the show and how it all came about and the casting and all that stuff. Do you have anything that you uh you want to bring up, Brad, before we get into the history? Uh no, that we did touch on the well, I did. I watched the first episode and the last episode, uh, which was interesting. The first episode uh was kind of painful, not that it was bad, but became it's but it it became so polished later that it really stood out that it was not, but it was it they really started out the gate really well. Um but no, I I want I have a list of things, but you're the film historian, so I'm gonna let you go for it. TV historian at this moment. Yes. Um okay, yeah, just interject when you want to just like wave your hand up so I can see you and I'll know to stop talking. So

How Friends Got Its Name

Brad Shreve 22:18

uh when Kaufman and Crane began developing friends, the working title was Insomnia Cafe. Now, do you you used to live in Los Angeles? Yes. Do you remember Insomnia Cafe on Beverly by CBS? I remember jitters, I remember Buzz. I don't remember Insomnia off the top of my head, no. So, listeners, uh, back in the 90s, there was a coffee house on Beverly Boulevard near CBS called Insomnia Cafe that looked like Central Park, had the same kind of eclectic furniture kind of hipster vibe. And Martha Kaufman, one of the creators of Friends, said that she was driving down Beverly Boulevard and looked over and saw Insomnia Cafe and thought, oh, interesting. And that stuck in her head. So when they were developing the show, the original title was Insomnia Cafe. And then after several rewrites, they changed it to Six of One, as a you know, six characters, six of one, and then the final working title was Friends Like Us. And when the pilot was filmed, it was called Friends Like Us. Well, I think Six of One is a terrible title. I'm glad they didn't go with it like with that. Wasn't Friends Like Us the original name of Ellen's series? That's why they didn't do it. Good point, Brad. You caught that. No, Ellen's show was called These Friends of Mine before they changed to Ellen. But that's exactly why they dropped the Like Us from the title, because it people thought it sounded too much like Ellen's show. I just fell for it. If you, you know, is they're worth a lot of money. I've seen them. If you see the ticket for the original filming of the pilot episode of Friends, it says Friends Like Us. So it was called Friends Like Us when they were first filming it. So what happened was like Marta, Marta Kaufman and her friend David Crane developed a show. They had met when they were both actors in New York, and they developed a show about their own experiences living in New York in their 20s and their friends. In the entire pitch of friends, it's so beautifully succinct. It's it's about that time in your life when your friends are your family. And I don't know about you, Brad, but my early to mid to late 20s, that's what it was. My friends were my family. I think everybody goes from that, you're out of college and you're beginning your life, and you're you, but you haven't quite gotten to the point where you're getting married or you're having kids. And it's that time period. And believe it or not, there weren't a lot of shows on the air which dealt with that particular time in people's lives. So it was really kind of a fresh concept in 1994, if you can believe that. I can't really say um I was kind of a heavy partier at that time. I don't remember anything at all. No, I I was pretty, I was a pretty heavy partier, but no, my friends were my family, totally. So Marty Kaufman and David Crane, when they met, they were actors, as I said, in New York, and they soon realized they were better writers and they were actors. They started writing theater and they eventually moved to Los Angeles because that's where the money was, and they began pitching shows to networks. And their very first success was an HBO show called Dream On. And it was one of the very first on the network, you know, uh, of HBO. This was before Sex in the City, before The Sopranos, Dream On. And like we said way back when we were talking about Bewitched, very often in Hollywood, two concepts develop at the same time, independently of each other, and then come together. You remember when we talked about that, Brad? Yes, I do. I'm still skeptical that that is really how it happened. I think there are spies involved, but yes, I do remember that conversation. Just go with me on this, please. So anyway, yeah, you you you wouldn't know the end whether they're spies or not, so I I'm not contradicting you. It's really true. It's really true, because while they were developing this show, NBC president Warren Littlefield had passed on the show Living Single. Now, for people who don't know, Living Single is really the Friends Before Friends. It was on Fox, and it spoke to this Generation X that we're talking about, to this generation. And he really regretted passing on Living Single, and he wanted another show which spoke to that demographic. So Cheers had ended the season before, Cosby the year before that. All NBC really had was Seinfeld and Mad About You. And they wanted something else on their Thursday night lineup. So enter Kaufman and Crane with their one-sentence pitch, and a TV series was born.

NBC’s Concerns And The Coffee Shop Bet

Brad Shreve 27:00

And what was important about Friends from the beginning was that it was about there were no stars. This was a true ensemble piece. Yes, Courtney Cox had some celebrity because of uh that movie uh friend uh Ace Ventura Pet Detective, and because of uh Family Ties. She was on Family Ties, but she wasn't she was not with Bruce and Bruce Springsteen's video, um, Dancing in the Dark. Is it Dancing in the Dark? Yeah, yep. Okay, um, that sounded weird to me for a minute, but there were no true no no stars. This was a true ensemble piece. And NBC was originally nervous about the concept of all these young people, and they wanted Kaufman and Crane to add some older characters. Network, network executives. It's just like, oh my god. So they also were concerned about it being in a coffee shop, and they wanted them to set it in a diner or a bar because what other shows were set in diners and bars? Um Seinfeld? Seinfeld and Cheers. Cheers, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So of course you want to copy rather than be unique. Exactly, exactly. And so Kaufman and Crane reluctantly added a character called Pat the cop. So there was gonna be a cop character who came in and out of the coffee house until they realized how really bad this was. And they told us they all everybody screamed Pat when he walked in the door. Pat. Um, they realized so they said to NBC, please, please, can we just have their parents on more frequently? And we don't have to have this cop character. And NBC agreed to that. Good. So that was that was it. That was the the genesis of the show. And what's really amazing about Friends is that it was really ahead of this whole coffee culture curve that we have. I mean, we think about it now. I can't get through a day without stopping by Starbucks, and if I do, it's not a fun day. You're in Spain, you go to your coffee place frequently, don't you, Brad? I go out for coffee um almost every day. It's a total big coffee culture. Don't go to Starbucks, thank God. But yeah, it's uh coffee culture here is very different. Wonderful that I was in the heavy coffee back like you were in the U.S. as well. Yeah, so it's it's just it's it's kind of interesting that NBC was hesitant about this because if they could have had a crystal ball and saw and have seen what was to come and know you know how the coffee cult how coffee culture and all of this would soon be happening, they'd realize they had a real they had a real tiger by the tail here with this with this show.

Casting The Core Six

Brad Shreve 29:42

All right, so let's let's get into the casting of these friends and and where they came from. Because as I said, other than Courtney Cox, who had a little bit of notoriety from her work, these were all unknowns. You know, they were all working actors, but they were all basically unknown. Um, and Kaufman and Crane, when they were writing this pitch in this series, had David Schwimmer in mind for Ross from the beginning. They actually wrote the character of Ross with David Schwimmer's voice in their mind because they had worked on with him on a previous pilot of theirs called Couples, and they couldn't get his like hang dog expression out of their mind. But the problem was that Swimmer had quit TV. He had a bad experience on a previous show, and he had quit television, moved back to Chicago, where he had a theater company, and wasn't gonna he had sworn off television. But they contacted him and they sent him the script, and they told him that this was going to be an ensemble show, not a star-driven show. And that's what appealed to him the the the brilliance of the writing of the script, and also the fact that this was going to be true ensemble, no stars in this show. So he agreed to do it. So David Swimmer was actually the first one cast in this. Does that surprise you, Brad? Um, actually, yeah, when I I did read that and I was surprised. Uh I kind of thought it would be one of the others. As I said, you know, none of them were big stars, but I thought it would probably be Courtney Cox or Matt LeBlanc because they I at least knew them beforehand, small though they may have been, or Jennifer because of her father. But those were really just guesses. I never would have thought Schwimmer because I really didn't know his career at all until you just told me. Yeah, it's kind of cool. So up next was another interesting, surprising choice. The next person cast was Lisa Coudreau. Now, did you know that? No, but to me, that was the best casting choice of them all. And it's hard to pick a favorite, but I just uh uh her character got a little too goofy at times, but I just thought she did it incredible. Love how I don't know how anybody can not love Phoebe. Well, the the amazing thing about Lisa Coudreau is that she was a graduate of Vassar, yes, who had majored in biology and was about to enter a graduate program in neuroscience when she gave that all up to become a comic. And weren't her parents like super smart people too? Yes, her father was a doctor. I mean, she was gonna study with her father, but she had this nagging feeling that she wanted to be an actress. She had this nagging desire. And her brother had a good friend uh named John Lovitz, who had just really hit on Saturday Night Live. And he encouraged her. He's like, if you don't do it now, when are you gonna do it? You know, now's the time to do it. You're in your mid-twenties, go for it. So she did. She began studying at the very famous improv group called The Groundlings, and then she began to develop characters that started to get attention. And one of those characters was this character, very ditzy character named Michelle. And if you know anything about Lisa Coudreau, you know where that's going. Yes, I do. Um and so she began auditioning for small parts on TV, and she booked a part on Mad About You as this kind of ditzy character. She wasn't a waitress yet. She was uh, I think she was a docent at a museum. Oh. And they liked her, they liked her so much they wanted her to come back as this character, but give this character a different life. And that's how the character of Ursula first began on Mad About You. But did you know this, Brad? She actually booked a very a big, big job, a dream job, and it was for a pilot of a show that was beginning that season as well. A very famous show, which ran at the same time as Friends, but won all the Emmys. Do you know what show that was? No, because I only knew her from being Ursula, and I loved her on Mad About You. I love Mad About You, but uh no, I have no idea. She booked the role of Roz in the pilot of Fraser. Oh, she was the original Roz in Fraser, and she got fired after about three days by James Burroughs, by the way. By James Burroughs. I think I did hear that at one time. Now that you mentioned she was fired. Um and what was what's the actress name that uh became Rozpin? Oh, yes, I adore her. So yeah, she really was right for Roz. And I think it was actually written with her in mind, but for some reason she couldn't do it, and then they fired Lisa Coudreau, and Perry Gulpin came back and made it a fantastic character. But, you know, she still had Mad About You, thankfully. So it was very difficult for her, but she said, you know, that's show biz, kids. So um she was doing Mad About You, and one of the writers of Mad About You had a boyfriend who, along with his partners, was developing this show. It was David Crane. His boyfriend wrote about Mad About You, wrote on Mad About You. So, and they were having a difficult time finding this actress to play this sweet, wafy, flaky character named Phoebe. And she went in to re and according to Kaufman, the minute she walked in, she nailed the part. She nailed the part of Phoebe, and they wanted to use her. The only problem was that she had a gig on Mad About You that was going to air on the same night as Friends. In fact, Friends was slated to air right after Mad About You. So they're like, How do we have the same actress playing two different characters on the same night on the same network? So they went to the producers of Mad About You and said, Could you help us out here? And they, Danny Jacobson, who produced Mad About You, very, very graciously said, Yeah, go ahead, take her. We'll just make some kind of connection. And that's how Ursula became Phoebe's twin. That's how that thing all happened. So that's kind of cool, isn't it? That they worked with each other and then they created this dual, this dual character in a way. Yeah, that is totally cool. That is one of the crossovers that I really loved. Yeah, it's great. I love Ursula. And Ursula on Mad About You wasn't originally quite as evil as she ended up being on Friends. But that's what the Friends writers did. They made her much more caustic than Phoebe, as a kind of a you know, a contrast. And I gotta say, the between the two shows, friends feel like real friends. And what I loved about Mad About You, it really felt like a real couple. Yeah, well. You believed they were a young couple. So it just it's no surprise there's a connection between the two series. They were yeah, and Mad About You is a wonderfully written show, too, and incredible actors. So, next up was Courtney Cox. Courtney Cox originally was brought in for the role of who do you think, Brad? Rachel. That's right. They wanted her for Rachel. Could you ever see Courtney Cox? Knowing what we know now, could you see Courtney Cox as Rachel? No, but you know, I've given up trying to do those kind of things. It just would have been a different character, would have worked, you never know. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. They she wanted, yeah, they wanted her to read for Rachel, and she couldn't see herself as Rachel. She responded more to the role of Monica, Ross's younger sister, tougher sister. And the producers couldn't see this because they had like a Janine Garaffalo type in mind for Monica, kind of harder, uh more edgy type of city character for Monica. Um, but you know, Courtney Cox was adamant. She really wanted to read for Monica. So they said, okay, let her read, let her read for Monica. Um, and then we'll cast her as Rachel. Because we'll say, you know what, you're really not right, but hey, we're gonna give you this role. And she read the role of Monica, and and Marta Kaufman said she brought levels to Monica that they never expected and that they really loved. So she got the part of Monica. The only problem was now they needed a Rachel. They didn't have a Rachel because they just cast her. So this is where it gets it gets kind of tricky, and I'm not gonna go too much into it because I do want to talk about these episodes. But what's really interesting is that so Jennifer Aniston, as we said, the daughter of John Aniston, who is a soap star for years on Days of Our Lives, Victor Kyriakis. Yes, yes, exactly. And she was Telly Savalis, she's Telly Savalis's goddaughter. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that Jennifer Aniston is. Yeah. So despite the fact that her father and her mother were both in show business, Jennifer Aniston was a struggling actor. She said she did like a she was the queen of the failed pilots. She was doing pilot after pilot after pilot. And she was actually had finally booked this pilot of this series called Muddling Through. And it was a summer replacement series. And if it was successful, then it might be added to the CBS Fall lineup. It was on CBS. And at this time, they brought her in to read for Rachel. And they found they had looked at Martha Kaufman said a gazillion actresses, and nobody brought the qualities of Rachel to life better than Jennifer Aniston. Because Rachel can be kind of a you know, a hard character. She's got a little spoiled, you know, she she's kind of clueless to other people's feelings sometimes. And what Aniston does, it gives Rachel a softness and a sweetness and a humor that really makes her so much more likable and lovable, don't you think? Yeah, that I mentioned the the pilot or the the first episode because I know they changed the name. The unlikability was really there in that first episode. And then it would have been easy to say, I'm gonna hate this character, but obviously everybody grew to love her, or they wouldn't have cared about Rachel and Ross. Exactly. And one of the wonderful things about the show is the show went on, is when uh Reese Witherspoon and later Christina Applegate played Rachel's sisters, and they're just like Rachel was in the beginning. You see how far the character of Rachel came from the very first from the pilot episode. So they're like, okay, what are we gonna do here? Kaufman and Crane loved her so much, and they had such a difficult time finding the right actress for this that they agreed to bring her on in what is called second position. Now, that's not a dance move, that's not a ballet term. It is, but not in this case. Basically, what second position meant was CBS had first dibs on her. So if this show she was doing on CBS called Muddling Through was given a go-ahead for the fall season, friends would have lost Aniston. She would have had to go to this other show. But they liked her so much they wanted to take the chance. And this was a big chance because if they filmed the pilot and started filming shows, and then suddenly CBS picked up their option, they would have had to reshoot the pilot and however many episodes Jennifer Aniston had done. Wow. So it was really, it was really touch and go for a while. I think Jennifer Aniston filmed like three or four episodes. And for a while, CBS was giving her a hard time about letting her go for friends. And one of the executives actually said, that show's not gonna make you a star. This show's gonna make you a star. And Jennifer Aniston was like, What? But thankfully, CBS um said, you know what, we're not gonna put the show on. You're free. So that's how she was able to do Friends. But for a long time, she filmed like three or four episodes as Rachel. And had they picked up her uh the muddling through pilot and put it on the show, she would have had to, they would have had to recast and refilm all those shows, which would have been hugely expensive. TV. That is amazing and quite an honor as an actor. Right? You look and look, you look for work, you look for work, and suddenly you have three jobs at the same time. That's that's always the way it works. Another actor who was in a very similar position was Matthew Perry. The role of Chandler was so difficult for them to cast. You know, Chandler is the droll observer of life, the one with the quips, the one-liners. And they couldn't find the right actor at all. They they were searching and searching, but they remembered an actor they'd worked with on Dream On, and he was this Canadian actor named Matthew Perry. The only problem was they couldn't bring him in because just like Jennifer Aniston, he was committed to another series. And the series, do you know anything about this, Brad? The series that Matthew Perry was committed to was called LAX 2194, and it was about baggage handlers at LAX in the year 2194. Oh, I'm so happy for him. If you ever see any clips of it, it is there's like aliens in it, you know, you know, people from outer space. It's the stupidest, stupidest thing. And, you know, despite the fact that that the odds were the show wasn't going to be picked up because it was so ludicrous, they didn't want to, they didn't want Kaufman and Crane to hire him. They didn't want another actor in second position. So they kept looking, they kept looking, they saw all these actors, and they found that all these actors they were seeing who were almost good but not quite the right fit, were all being coached by Matthew Perry in the role. He just, that's how much he identified with this part and how he wanted to help his fellow actors get this. Um, so eventually they figured, you know what? Go ahead and do it. The the executives uh at Warner Brothers saw the pilot of LAX 2194, agreed the show was so ludicrous, there was no chance of it making on the air. Go ahead and cast Perry. And then finally, we had Matt LeBlanc. Hold on, I gotta say something about Chandler. Yeah. Chandler is the Andrew McCarthy character on St. Elmo's Fire. Funny. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it's such an original take on no one, there had never been a character like Chandler before. And that's all Matt Perry. That way of speaking. As I started, we started, you know, could I be more excited? That was all Matthew Perry's take. And they were all Lisa Coudreau said when they all got together for the first read-through, uh table read, she read the character description. She went, Oh, great, a gay character. Because it was, you know, Chandler. Yeah. And she said, but when he started reading, she said, I couldn't believe the things that he was doing and were coming out of his mouth. He had a completely different take on the part of Chandler than anybody ever expected. And it clearly shows. Yeah. And finally, we have for the part of Joey Tribbiani, we have Matt LeBlanc. Now, Brad, you talked a little bit about Matt LeBlanc. What were you saying about his uh other noteworthy appearances before this show? Well, I remember him on Married with Children. He was Christina Applegate's boyfriend, or one of her 10,000 boyfriends. I can't remember her character's name. And as always, he plays in Italian, even though he was not Italian. And uh at least I don't believe because his French name and I believe his family background is uh Canadian. And uh that other series that he was in and his act his modeling days. Yeah, well, he did a lot of commercials. He started out as a carpenter, and somebody said, You're really good looking, you should be a model. So he became he went to go model, but he realized he was too short, but he was perfect for commercials, and he did commercial after commercial after commercial, and then yeah, he would do guest spots on uh Married with Children and all these shows, and then finally he was brought in for the role of Joey. And you know, Joey is originally written, was kind of sleazy. I mean, you can kind of see it in the pilot, you know, the leather jacket, the you know, he's a womanizer, you know, just an unappealing character, just so stereotypical. Yeah, he was too sleazy. I haven't watched the pilot. I I he wasn't as likable as lovable Joey. He was he was dumb, but not adorable, dumb. And that's what Matt LeBlanc brought to that part the lovability, the sweetness, the naivete. He said Joey looked on the girls, on Rachel and Phoebe and Monica as his sisters. You know, he was very protective, and that was the handle he had on Joey, which made the character of Joey so appealing, was because he looked out for them, you know what I mean? They were his they were his little sisters. So he the sleaze factor was less and less until he became an adorable character, you know. So I that's pretty much the cast coming together.

The Pilot And The Fountain Opening

Brad Shreve 46:46

We want to talk about these episodes, Brad. Do we want to start diving into them? I think we better, or this is gonna be a three-hour episode. We're already pushing it, which we always do with television. They always run long, they always run long. All right, so you said you saw the pilot. You watched you you watched the pilot. We didn't talk pilot's not one of our episodes. Um, what are your thoughts about the pilot? Well, I kind of said it was it was excellent for a pilot, but and if I saw it for the first time, I I don't remember watching it for the first time. I I remember the the episode. I would have thought it was great, and it was still great, but because as I said, uh the characters weren't as polished yet and weren't the characters with Grute Novelo as much, it was kind of not jarring, but like, hmm, this is kind of odd. But it was well done. I mean, certainly set it up well. What's interesting about the pilot is that it is the only episode which has the um the complete original version of the opening credits. Now, if you've been living under a rock for the past 30 years, you don't know that the theme song to friends is called I'll Be There For You, performed by the Rembrandts. And the opening takes place in a fountain. Six these six adult people are splashing around in a fountain at night. And you first think, What the hell is going on? Why are they splashing around? They're adults. Why are they splashing around in a fountain? Uh and where was that fountain, Brads? You know, you know. It was not far from the Bewitched House, the Stevens house. It was on Warner Ranch. Exactly. I could see myself in the 20s dancing with my friends in a fountain. I guess so, depending on how many drinks I'd had. Sure, of course. Of course. Yeah, we were just silly. Warner Brothers Ranch, which is now gone, uh, but just feet away from the from the Stevens house on Bewitched. And it was shot at 4 a.m., a very cold night at 4 a.m. The actors didn't understand what the hell they were doing, splashing around in a fountain. Um, but they were good sports and they did it. And Lisa Coudreau said that the person that got them through that was Matthew Perry, because Matthew Perry's comments were, Oh, I I can't remember when I wasn't in a fountain. We're in a fountain, we're we're gonna splash some more. Oh, you want us to do it again? Yeah, just still silly stuff. And the but the executives were like, Why are these people in the fountain? This is not a good opening. So what they agreed to do was after the pilot, they would cut in scenes from the show. So the fountain, so the fountain thing is kind of booked ends. But what's more famous than those six people splashing around in a fountain? I mean, it's it's you know, it's one of the most famous openings of any show. I agree. And uh, you know, we don't get those anymore since they aren't openings to TV series, which is really good, but uh, you know, so much of them so much of what we remember about them are the opening theme songs and the openings of the shows, and theirs is definitely iconic. Yeah, they're important. Yeah, they set they set the tone. They set the tone, they tell the story. It's it's unfortunate we don't have that many openings anymore. So the thing about Friends is that all the episodes begin with the title, the one that, the one where, because Kaufman and Crane thought, you know what, when people are talking about this show, they're gonna say, Oh, uh, the episodes, uh, the one where Monica gets a roommate. Brilliant. And that's how they they titled all of the episodes, the one with, the one where. So the pilot is called the one where Monica gets a roommate. And do you want to tell people just a little breakdown of it? It's not one of our episodes, but just to get to set the tone. Yeah, it uh so Rachel was going to get married and she ran out on her fiance. Yes, she shows up at the coffee house where Monica is because she and Monica were friends, even though Monica was not invited to her wedding. What's up with that? And Monica's like, uh, you know, Monica was a little put off by that and the fact that Rachel had suddenly decided she was moving in with Monica without asking Monica. And uh much of it had to do with uh Rachel dealing with uh leaving her fiance, and we got touches of each character. They did a really good job of introducing each character, so we got to know them really well. We got to see the earliest, not even subtle, that Ross had this crush on Rachel. Uh, had been and still did. He even said, Can we go out someday? Which seemed odd that she had just run away from wedding day, but he did. And uh that was pretty much how it was set up. It was they they did they did a really good job of introducing all the characters without saying this is what who Joey is, this is who Monica is. Yeah, it's a it was a really interesting setup because it begins with all of them just at the coffee house without Rachel and without Ross, just talking. They're little tiny inner spurts, little sequences of little quips and little things. They just are just sitting around talking at a coffee shop, they're in different positions, it's just a passage of time. Uh, and then Ross comes in, who just got divorced because he found out his wife was a lesbian, and that you know, that lesbian thing was going through the entire series, so many lesbian jokes. Um, which is one of the things you're like, oh, okay. So anyway, Ross is dejected. He walks in, and Joey goes, This guy says, Hello, I want to kill myself because Ross is just this hang dog, sad, sad person, so depressed about his marriage being over. And he says, All I want is to be married. And at that exact moment, Rachel comes in in her wedding gown, and Chandler, they all look at her, and Chandler says, And I just want a million dollars. And you know, I have no problem with the joke being that he had a lesbian wife and didn't know it. That is funny. It's you know, the other stuff they kind of the fact that they started really drilling it to the into the the ground was along with all their other jokes. Yes, but it sets up the whole premise of the story is the fact that Ross, when they were, I guess we should say Ross and Monica are brother and sister. Ross is Monica's older brother. Uh and when they even though Ross is the most successful of them when the show begins, he's also the biggest loser. Yeah, he is kind of well, and he become, yeah, he yeah, later on it changes, but yes. So they set it up, they set up the fact that when Monica and Rachel were in high school together, Ross had a crush on her. And that's how that whole Ross and Rachel will they, won't they thing thing began. I like the pilot, I think it's an incredibly well-written pilot. Yes. Um, but I see your point about the fact that, you know, friends really much hit it out of the park as far as audience and as far as characters as sitcoms go. But it grew, and that's what's so wonderful about friends is these characters, you hope, in any show, will get deeper and and have their relationships and they'll become more human and more identifiable. But still, they did a great job. I'm not dissing on the pilot at all. It just had become so good that if it was any other show, I would have thought this is great, but but it had become so good, it made the pilot stand out as they're not there yet. Right, exactly, exactly.

The One Where No One’s Ready

Brad Shreve 54:10

Um, so the first episode we're actually going to talk about officially is mine. Um, and as I said, it was so hard to pick episodes. But I thought this one was really important because it's early on. It's um actually season three, so not that early on. Ross and Rachel are already together. It's called The One Where No One's Ready, uh, season three, episode two. It's written by Ira Ungerleiter, directed by Gail Mancuso, and it aired on September 26th, 1996.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

You want my clothes? I'm wearing everything you want. Maybe if I wasn't going to minimum and stuff on them. I mean um, I better not do any animal lunges.

Brad Shreve 55:21

This one reminded me of one of my favorite Laverne and Shirley episodes. Oh, really? What? Which was done in real time. It was done in real time, and they rushed home and had in real time had to get ready from the brewery to two dates. Yes, I remember that episode. And I thought of that the whole time I watched it. Well, that's really interesting because this was pretty close to real time. If it was real time. Yeah, it was real time. It was real time. This is the thing, this is a really cool thing about this show. So the plot of the show is really easy. It's Ross is speaking at a museum benefit, and he arrives at Monica's apartment to pick up everybody, only to find out that why is no one ready? And that's what the episode's about. But what's cool is what Brad said is that it takes place in real time. It's the only episode of the entire series that takes place in real time. And what's also interesting about it is it's what's called a bottle show. And what a bottle show is, is it's kind of written as a budget saver. Uh, because when you get to a certain point in a season, you find you've spent all your money. So you need to shoot an episode that's quick and cheap and doesn't have any guest stars and needs one or two sets, and is pretty easy. And that's what this show was designed as a bottle show. That's what they call them. But it ended up being anything but, and which I'll talk about. But what I really love about this show is, and what I love about to me, these are my favorite friends episodes. It's the episodes where there aren't any guest stars, where it's the six people interacting together without the distraction of everybody else. What do you think? And if you hate the characters, this is the episode that did it. I was so mad at every uh I was so aching for Ross. I wouldn't strangle every one of them. Because no one's getting ready, everybody's ignoring him, everybody has their own little situation going on uh that they're obsessed about and they're not paying any attention. And Ross is like 20 minutes, 19 minutes, 18 minutes, and nobody's paying attention to him. There, there's a really silly runner of Chandler and Joey fighting over a chair, which is so funny. And um what's it would be totally stupid except it was Chandler and Joey. They're the ones that make it work. Yeah, and you know, your situation where you get up, you're sitting in a chair, you get up to go to the bathroom, and you come back and your friend's sitting in your chair, and you're like, I was sitting there, like, but you got up. Well, that's what that's about. And they fight over it. But what's so brilliant about the whole thing is that this is the episode where Chandler leaves, puts his tucks on, and hides all of Joey's underwear and comes back and tells him. So, what does Joey do, Brad? Joey goes into their apartment, comes back wearing pretty much all of Chandler's clothes, and says a classic line that everyone remembers. I think they showed it in every season during the uh credits after that, where he throws his arms up and says, Could I be wearing any more clothes? And of course, hey, I'm Chandler. Could I be wearing any more clothes? And of course, he says the the additional two words that he didn't make up but became common vernacular after that, that he was going commando. Yeah, he goes, It's awfully hot in here. Maybe if I wasn't going commando, and he starts doing lunges in Matt Perry's face. It's so funny. It's like Matt LeBlanc says, You hide all my clothes, I'm gonna do the exact opposite. So he puts on everything of Chandler's, and it's it's it's an iconic scene. It's so funny. Could I be wearing any more clothes? It's very funny. But an interesting thing in this show was you know, they designed it as a money saver, but they ended up having to stop filming uh very shortly in because Matt LeBlanc, when he was doing one of the takes diving for the chair, dislocated his shoulder. So they had to stop filming. There was no other there was no other scene to film. So they actually didn't end up being a money saver at all. They had to go on and do other episodes later with Joey in a cat uh with his arm in a sling, and they explained it that he had jumped on his bed and fell off. And then they had to go back once his shoulder was healed and finish the rest of the filming. So it really didn't save money. It really, but it what it did give us was a really, really funny, wonderful show, in my opinion. I love this show. I agree. I wanted to do a show where Ross and Rachel were together because so many of our episodes we're gonna talk about, they're not together anymore. And I thought it was important to have one with Ross and Rachel together. So I love this episode, it's a lot of fun. I agree 100%. Should we go on to mine? Yeah, let's go into yours. Brad's up next. Okay. There, the two I picked were because I just remembered moments in the episodes. I couldn't even remember the details. You know how I am, I can never remember the details. I just remembered moments that made me laugh. And this is the one I remembered Monica wearing a turkey in my head on her head. And you said to me, No, it was Joey that wore the turkey on his head. And I searched online, Monica wears the turkey on her head, and nothing came up. Everything came up, Joey wearing the turkey on his head. Yeah. So I thought, was I wrong about this? But I wasn't. No. But anyway, so this is called the one with all the Thanksgivings.

The Thanksgiving Episodes Tradition

Brad Shreve 1:00:53

And I was a little reluctant as well because it sounds like a clip episode, which apparently is something the network was afraid people would think it was. Right. They were, yeah. But these were really flashbacks and hysterical flashbacks. Because, in addition to Joey Wearing the Turkey. Well, wait a minute. Introduce introduce the episode, Brad. What's the episode? Oh, I'm sorry. This is season five, episode eight. It aired on November 19th, 1998. It was written by Gregory S. Malens and directed by Kevin S. Bright, one of the uh creators of the series. And it's called The One with All the Thanksgivings, as I said.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:33

Hello.

Brad Shreve 1:02:29

And basically, the uh the gang are sitting around reminiscing, reminiscing about Thanksgiving past, and they we they start getting into the worst Thanksgivings they ever had. And that's where you think, uh-oh, they're gonna go into a flashback episode, and it really doesn't. We learn about Chandler's unhappy childhood Thanksgiving, which was when his father came out, uh Joey Genon's head stuck in a turkey, which to me was one of the funniest. Uh, the biggest turkey ever in history. Yes, the biggest turkey ever. Uh Phoebe going into her past life episode, memories, and um how Monica accidentally cut off Chandler's toe. Uh, there are um challenges with this episode, such as we have the friends ongoing fat jokes. Yeah, because we have the right we have the return of fat Monica. When Monica was in high school, she was overweight, and they make lots and lots of fat jokes about fat Monica. It is cringy. I will say though that the in this episode, it wasn't as much making fun of her as it has in other episodes. Like other episodes, they had her dancing and oh, look, she's fat and she's dancing. There wasn't as much of that. I I I am okay with when you consider how uh sickenly skinny she and Jennifer Anniston were. Yes, I have no problem with the fact that you do a flashback and it shows they're really overweight. I'm okay with that. But uh usually when they did those or they talked about it, was a lot of fat jokes. This one I don't feel like did it as much. Chandler called her fat, which was one of the issues in the story. Um and that was okay too. I felt like that was realistic. So it made me uncomfortable, but not as much as some of the others. So um that's where the story goes. That's how it begins. And uh we get two great guest stars that we talked about before, actually, three guest stars. The one is very, very fast. We have Elliot Gould and Christina Pickles as Monica and Chandler's parents, Monica and Ross's parents. Oh the gallers, Monica and yes, boy, I'm getting all these. I know who these people are, trust me. And then we have uh Morgan Fairchild as Nora Tyler Bing. Yes, uh, very, very fast. Yeah. Um, and then we have Alec Mappa as the housekeeper, and very funny. I know it's funny, right? Yes, it was very funny, very funny. I love I love all the Friends Thanksgiving episodes. Yes. Um, this isn't my favorite Thanksgiving. My favorite Thanksgiving episode is where Rachel makes the trifle with the beef that tastes like feet. That was very funny. I love that episode. Um, but this was I will say that my all-time favorite Thanksgiving episode of any series is the Cheers one with the food fight at Carla's House. But I think it was Carla's House, but this is a great one. This ranks up there. I love the I love the fact that friends, the creators, Kaufman and and uh Kevin Bright and David Crane, uh made Thanksgiving episodes a staple of every season because it's telling you the theme of the show, the time when your friends are your family. And you know, we've all had friends givings, you know, if we couldn't go home to see our family for Thanksgiving. And that's what we're having here. We're having all these friends givings, and I love that. What I love about this episode a couple things. I I love the flashbacks, I love the eighties fashions, hello. I love Chandler's flock of seagulls, hair. Oh. Oh my God. I remember, I remember that distinctly the first time it aired, and laughing till my stomach hurt. And then he comes back the next year and they look like Miami Vice. They look like Miami Vice. It is so funny. They got the stubble. I remember that so well. The stubble, the suits, the pastel suits. It's it's hysterical. I love the flashbacks. I love Judy Geller. Christina Pickles is so funny. The boy who doesn't like Thanksgiving. Oh, well, thanks for bringing him to Thanksgiving. And then I love Phoebe has the best line here because Joey says to Phoebe when she's talking about her past lives, Joey says, I can't remember any of my past lives. And Phoebe says, Of course not, honey. You're brand new. And the look on his face is so adorable. He's like so excited and happy about it. Matt LeBlanc has the best comic facial reactions of any actor. He is so his reactions to everything are so funny and it's just so natural. They're not forced. It's just Joey's reactions to things are so funny and so much like Joey that you just love it. I love that. I agree. I love it. You know what's funny about this episode, though, is that apparently Rachel has met Chandler four times. She meets him in this episode. She met him in the first episode. She meets him later in the one with all the flashbacks when Janice asks them if they've ever fooled around with each other. And in the very last season, she meets him again when Monica and Rachel crash uh a frat party that they're at. So I think it's funny. Rachel's met Chandler four times and she never remembers that she met Chandler. And it's also famous for one more thing. Maybe at least one more. There's maybe more. Okay, what's that? It was the first time what? What did Chandler do? The first time Chandler told Monica, I love you. But it wasn't like uh I love you. It was he said it offhandedly, and it's when Monica has her head in the turkey. Yes. So you're right. She has her head in the turkey, and he goes, You're so funny. That's so great. I love you. And she hears him and she's like, What? What did you say? And the audience goes nuts, of course. And and let me get studio audiences sometimes drive me crazy, but when I watch Friends, I really feel like the studio audience is real. Well, they're yeah, they apparently they were just like it was like a uh a revival meeting when the studio audience was in there. They were just so hyped up to be there to have these shows that they usually actually had to lessen the laughs. They actually, you know, it's unusual. Usually you add and they did that sometimes. Exactly. But mostly they would have to lessen the laughs because they were too much. In fact, Lisa Coudreau said that she used to get irritated when the audience was laughing too long. She'd go, it's not that funny. In her head, she'd be like, It's not that funny. When do you stop laughing? You're ruining the timing of the show. It's a fun episode. I love that episode. So, my episode though, my next episode is the one where he tells Monica he loves her for real.

Everyone Finds Out About Mondler

Brad Shreve 1:09:09

And it's only six episodes after that. And to me, this is the best season of Friends. I love seasons four through probably seven. The whole Monica and Chandler thing, that whole run of episodes is you can't touch them. There's one classic after the other. But this episode, in my opinion, is one of the best episodes of television ever. And you're not the only one. I see it rated as top very frequently. It's like the it's like the chuckle spites the dust of friends. And yes, it's the episode where they don't know, we know they know we know.

unknown 1:09:47

Love.

Brad Shreve 1:09:48

It's called The One Where Everyone Finds Out. It's from season five, episode 14, written by Alexa Young, directed by Michael Lembeck, and it aired on February 11th, 1999.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:02

Joey, do they know that we know?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:06

Joey.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

They know you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:11

I can't believe those two.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

They thought that they could mess with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:20

They don't know that we know they know we know.

Brad Shreve 1:10:26

Couldn't if I wanted to. So indeed, this is the episode where Monica and Chandler's secret relationship reaches a peak. And everybody basically finds out, like in the title of the show, because they had slept in London at Ross's wedding, and all through this next season, they've been carrying on secretly. And one by one, Joey finds out, and then Rachel finds out, but they're still keeping it a secret. And now Phoebe finds out because they're across the street in ugly naked guy's apartment because Ross is going to rent it, hopefully. And Phoebe sees Monica and Chandler having sex, basically, up against the window. And that's when she goes, when she first sees, she goes, Monica and Chandler, my eyes, my eyes, my eyes. It's so funny. So, but that Ross doesn't know. And then Rachel says, I know, and Joey knows, but Ross doesn't know, so you have to keep it down, Phoebe. So they go back to Joey, and Joey's relieved because he doesn't want to keep this secret. And he's like, Great, now we can tell everybody. And Phoebe says, or we could go along with them and have a little fun of our own. So it's basically just a big episode about chicken. They're playing chicken with each other, basically. The stakes get higher and higher with each scene because Monica and Chandler find out that Rachel and Phoebe and Joey know, and they want to raise the stakes even more. And that's where we get the they don't know we know, they know we know. It's just, it's I'm not explaining it well, and I'm sure people have seen this episode. So it's it's not, I'm not ruining it that much, but the brilliance of Lisa Coudrew saying, they're trying to mess with us. Wait a minute, they don't know we know, they know we know. And she says, and Joey, you can't tell them. And Matt LeBlanc says, Couldn't if I wanted to. This is such a funny, funny episode. In the end, of course, it reaches a fever pitch where um Phoebe pretends she's got the hots for Chandler and she wants to sleep with them, and they do this whole game of chicken at the end until Chandler breaks down and says, I can't do this, I can't do this. And Phoebe goes, Why? And he and he says, Because I'm in love with Monica. I'm in love with Monica. And that's the first time he actually says it for real. I'm in love with Monica. And it's a great what's wonderful about it is it's such a funny episode, and it has this great emotional payoff at the end with of them saying, I love you to each other. And I think that's what makes this a perfectly crafted episode. I agree, though. There is a line that I think most of us remember more than Chandler saying, I love you. What line is that? Other than the one you just said about Phoebe. What's that? Get off my sister. Because in the coda, Ross is in the apartment and sees Monica and Chandler going at it again, and that's where it ends. So then Ross finds out. So everybody finds out that these two are together. And that was really, you know, the idea of Monica and Chandler getting together was not supposed to be the driving force of the rest of the series. But what happened was when they they had that little shot where they're in where Chandler's in bed and Ross comes in and then leaves, and Monica comes out of the covers and she goes, Do you think he saw me? The audience reaction was almost three minutes of hoots and screams. And Kaufman and Crane said, Uh, we have something here. You know, this is wait a minute, we got to listen to the audience here. They love this, and that's why Chandler and Monica became the driving force of the next and eventually moved in together and got married. And so it's really kind of interesting. They were such smart producers in the fact that they listened to their audience, and the audience basically told them where the show was going to go. But this relationship between Monica and Chandler was never supposed to be one other anything other than a oops, what did we do last night? And it became, you know, the rest of the show. It made the show better for me. The reveal with them in bed together was is in my brain forever. I remember the excitement, the hooting. I was with my ex, and we were both cheering on, laughing hysterically, loving it. And don't anybody get upset with me here. Their relationship, I for their relationship I really loved. I I finally have reached the point, certainly later in the series, of every time Rachel and Ross kissed, or they said, I love you, or whatever. I was like, yawn, yawn. We've been here 10 years. You know, moonlighting didn't go on this long with their whole will they or won't they? It just for 10 years it was too long. And not not that I was I never lost excitement over it, but it it dragged on. And it was like, end it or make it happen. And I loved these two as a couple. Uh, they were great as a couple, they were believable as a couple, two very different characters um coming together. Yeah, you know, in a way, it's the real emotional core of friends. You know, Ross and Rachel is the drama. You know, there's there they were, first of all, they were never a good couple together. And but everybody wanted them together because it's that unattainable thing. It's the fairy tale, the princess, that whole thing. Ross, uh, Chandler and Monica is the real couple. That's that's the emotional core. They didn't have the emotional ups and downs that Ross and Rachel had. They were a stable couple, and as you see through the show, they end up getting married and then adopting a child and moving to the suburbs. That's reality, you know, and it really grounded the show and gave it an emotional depth and an emotional core that I don't think it would have had without that. And I also don't think the show would have run 10 seasons because this relationship really does become the driving force of the remaining seasons of the show. Yeah. This was a I uh I was very happy that you I remembered everything in this episode. I didn't remember which episode it was. So when you said it, I'm like, okay, we'll see what it is. And then the whole time I'm sitting there, oh, I'm so glad Tony picked this out. Well, when we were thinking of episodes, I mean I really wanted to do the quiz, the trivia game episode. I wanted to do the one after Vegas where Ross and Rachel get married and they're drunk. I love that episode. But I knew this one. I mean, I can't not I can't talk about friends and not talk about they don't know we know they know we know. I mean, because I think it's such a I say this word too much, such a brilliant, brilliant script. Um, it was nominated for three Emmys, uh, Outstanding Directing, Outstanding Writing, big surprise. And uh Lisa Coudreau was nominated for Outstanding Supporting Actress in this because she's amazing in this show. She is so fucking good as Phoebe in this episode because she's the driving force behind it, she's the one who's making all these things, you know, raising the stakes. Her coming on to Chandler was so funny. I'm really looking forward to you and me having sexual intercourse. You should be. I'm very bendy. She's so great. This episode also has the last appearance of Ugly Naked Guy, which of course had run its course. I mean, come on. But it also has the first appearance of Hugsy. Do you know who Hugsy was, Brad? Hugsy. Hugsy. Uh, I'm trying to think of something that would have been on there. Uh Hugsy, no, I don't. Hugsy is Joey's bedtime penguin pal.

unknown 1:18:26

Remember.

Brad Shreve 1:18:28

Because he goes, You got secrets? I got secrets of my own. And they say, You don't have any secrets, Joey. And he says, Yeah, you don't know about Hugsy, my bedtime penguin pal. And then in a later scene, he's holding Hugsy. You know what I mean? So, first appearance of Hugsy. So that's great for that reason. But yeah, I love this episode. It is truly, in my opinion, the best episode of the share of the show, hands down. I don't know about that because it'd be really hard for me to pinpoint that, but I definitely way up to the top. And it could be my favorite. I don't know. I can't. It's hard for me to remember them. All right, Brad, you're

Brad Pitt’s Guest Spot And The Rumor

Brad Shreve 1:19:04

up. Okay, this is season eight, episode nine. It originally aired November 22nd, 2001. The title is The One with the Rumor, and it was written by Shayna Goldberg Meehan and directed by Gary Halverson.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:21

I'm sorry, what?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:22

I said it was typical. Typical of you. Rachel Green, Queen Rachel, does whatever she wants in a little Rachel Land.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:41

Do I do a minimum?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:50

Little me, minimum miserable.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:55

Well, you should be on the same.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:12

We have a club. Me? Ronald.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:32

No need to point. She knows who Ronus is.

Brad Shreve 1:20:37

Now, the reason why I chose this episode is I remembered it being funny, uh, but most of all I remembered Brad Pitt. And the reason I remembered Brad Pitt, first of all, I remember him being absolutely gorgeous in this as How do you how why would you remember Brad Pitt? For what reason would you possibly remember Brad Pitt? Well, a couple reasons. One, I don't it seemed odd to see a movie star in a sitcom that I don't recall. I know he was on Dallas, but was he ever in a sitcom before of any kind? No. No, but this show was full. I mean, Julia Roberts was on this show, for God's sake. Yes. But she did humor, and but I guess Brad did humor as well. Yes, I should uh No, but I know what you mean. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. The the superpower that Brad Pitt had, and granted he was married to Jennifer at the time, it just seemed it it would normally have seemed out of place, but he seemed so comfortable doing it and fit so well with the rest of the cast. I'm sure it's because he knew them all well at that point. He just clicked. Yeah. He acted like this this guy who I think of some of the, you know, I think Brad's greatly over uh greatly underrated because I think he's done an incredible role. And for him to be on the sitcom, and and I don't mean to disparage sitcoms at all, to him click in a role that was secondary, and he looked like he was having a ball doing this episode. His laughs seem legitimate and real. So what is it what happened? Okay, so Mona Monica invites old high school friend Will Colbert to Thanksgiving dinner. Rachel knew him in high school, but doesn't know that he still hates Rachel and how she treated him in school. And during conversations, he reveals he just digs at Rachel constantly through this episode. Just dig, dig, dig. And uh because first of all, everybody expects him to still be overweight and not a good looking guy. And of course, they walk in the door, and I can't remember what Phoebe said, but she her reaction was just She looks up at she looks at the god and she goes, Well done. Something like that. Thank you. Something like that. Oh, yes. Yes, yes, exactly. God, thank you, or whatever. So, anyway, during conversation, she reveals that he and Ross founded the I Hate Rachel Green Club. And that he spread a rumor about her years earlier, which again the troublesome part here, that I think they used the word hermaphrodite because inner sense, I don't think it was a common term at that time. Yeah, and I know there was backlash about that as many other things. Meanwhile, Joey insists on eating an entire turkey by himself and ends up wearing Rachel's maternity pants to make room for dessert. And what's funny is when I showed this episode, I completely forgot it was another Thanksgiving episode. So I didn't purposely choose. Yeah. Yeah, it is, yeah. I only remembered that Brad Pitt was on there. I didn't know why he showed up. Yeah, the rumor was about the hermaphrodite cheerleader from Long Island who was supposed to be Rachel. Um, it is. It's it got a lot of, especially now, it got a lot of criticism, a lot of backlash because of that. It's a funny episode. I my favorite line is when when she first walks in, when when Rachel first walks in and uh Will, Brad Pitt sees her and she's holding some yams, and he says to Ross, look at her standing there with those yams. My two greatest enemies, Ross, Rachel Green and Complex Carbohydrates. It's just it's a funny, it's a funny episode. Um, but the reason is, and I agree with you 100%, how good Brad Pitt is, how comfortable he is. You know, you you'd think he'd be a little awkward, but he's not. He's so funny. And he was actually nominated for an Emmy for this. And I think he's Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, and I for outstanding guest actor in a comedy series. And I think he's wonderful in this episode. Yeah, it's cringy, there are cringy moments, but it's a very, very funny episode. And do you remember that um Ross or Ross? Do you remember that Rachel started the rumor about Ross making out with their 50-year-old librarian? Yeah. Which turned out not to be a rumor, it was fact. And Ross says she didn't look 50. And Chandler goes, Did she look 16? Oh, I will say the way they made jokes about her at 50 years old, you would have thought the woman was 90. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was problematic too, but maybe just for me. It's a fun episode, though. I'm I'm glad you chose it. I love, like I said, I love the Thanksgiving episodes. They're all they're all outstanding episodes of this show. And I want to add that Jennifer Aniston and Lisa Coudreau agree with us that they were um, I don't know, surprised, but they were pleased that Brad felt so relaxed and funny on the set because many of the movie stars that came on were not used to performing before a live audience and were a little awkward and uncomfortable. And Brad just seemed to just slide in there and do it. Probably because he knew them. You're right, probably because he was married to Jennifer Anderson, so he knew them. But you have people like I think Sean Penn is pretty good when he's on, but uh Sean Penn on a sitcom is just kind of odd. Um I you really don't see Sean Penn on a sitcom. Alec Baldwin, obviously, could do comedy. You know, Jen uh Julia Roberts, she's fine, but I just feel like other than uh Reese Witherspoon and um Christina Applegate playing Rachel's sisters, who are just so funny, that he does the best job. I think he's really, really good. I agree with you. I agree with you. Yeah, yeah.

Finale Payoff And Friends As Comfort TV

Brad Shreve 1:26:30

And that's why I remembered it so well. So those are our four episodes of Friends. Um, I think everybody pretty much knows, you know, in the final episode, the finale, a two-parter, uh, that Monica and Chandler get their children from a surrogate from Anna Faris, who plays the surrogate, and they're twins, and they move to the suburbs. And finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, Ross and Rachel end up together because she got off the plane. And that's all I'm gonna say. I got off the plane. It was a very it's a good finale. It was, you know, it's the highest-rated highest-rated finale of the 2000s. I think it was watched by over 50 million people. I remember that. Do you remember that? The uh the finale? Oh, yes, I do. Definitely. Yeah, I mean, all the loose ends were tied up. You have your last shout out to Regina Falange, Phoebe's alias. I loved that. And what I think is really wonderful is that, yeah, it's kind of a little weird that Rachel would give up this fabulous job in Paris because Ross tells her he loves her after 10 years. But really, what kind of ending would you expect? I mean, what was the better ending? Her going to Paris and them not being together? That wasn't gonna happen. You know, people were waiting 10 years for these people to get together. And it's the natural ending, right? Yeah, and it came up when we did our Green Acres episode. In our Alice episode, where I don't well, we do the when we talked about Green Acres, there was no final episode, it was canceled mid-season, and I said I liked that because I I like to just consider the think that everything just continued as it was. Whereas Alice, everybody's story was wrapped up in a neat little bowl, every single character's. And so I have issues with final episodes because that tends to be a norm. This one did it, but not it, it it didn't bother me this time. Yeah. No, I agree with that. Well, you know why I think that is, is because they knew the show was ending and they were able to craft the entire last season to build up logically to that conclusion. Alice, everything happened to everybody in the last episode. You know, that's it's like, oh, okay, everybody gets their dreams come true with the very last episode. But in this show, all 18 episodes of the last year were building towards this climax. And I think that's also what makes it so satisfying. I think it's a very satisfying ending. Uh, I think in Kaufman and Crane, you know, use the last episode of Mary Tyler more as a guide, big surprise. And it stayed true to the characters and the character arcs and uh this the story arcs. And I love it for that reason. And there's also a line in the final episode that, again, with many of these lines in this show, it didn't become a catchphrase, but I remember loving it. And that is when they're heading out the door, and somebody says, Should we all go get some coffee? And Chandler says Sure, where? You know, it just it's Matthew Perry delivers it so light. It's such a light, yeah. Sure, where, you know, and everybody just looks at him, and yeah, it's a it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful wrap-up, it really is. Um, wow, yeah, that's a lot, Brad. We just went through it. Well, it's a 10-year series, so give us a break. It's a long episode. There are so many episodes we didn't get to talk about, but people just go watch them. They're on HBO Max. If you haven't seen them, uh hopefully this will be a refresher for some of these episodes uh that we talked about and the ones we didn't get to talk about. And um, if some of the stuff bothers you, I hope it doesn't, but get over it because again, it's a it's of its time and it was still a great show and uh put things in perspective and enjoy. Yeah. So, Brad, I know we're both exhausted, but is there anything else you want to say about the podcast or anything else? Well, our usual.

Rate, Review, And Tell A Friend

Brad Shreve 1:30:35

Uh if you well, as I always say, if you forgot. As I say every week, if you enjoy the show, please rate and review. It should be right there on the app in front of you. And more importantly, tell a friend because they need to know that we're here and enjoy the show just as much as you do. That's absolutely right, people. Please tell your friends. Love the feedback, love the reviews, so appreciate it. Me too. Well, Brad, I'm exhausted, and I just have one more thing left to say. But I don't want to say it as always, because this has been so much fun. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir. No, let's say, oh, I did it wrong. I'll do it. We'll put it in. Goodbye, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:48

We were on the break.