Tony Maietta:
Hello. I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Tony. There's one thing that I hear time and time again when people talk about Guess who's coming to dinner?

Tony Maietta:
What?

Brad Shreve:
That it's stated that dated, all those ideas and the problems with race and interracial marriage are. Would no longer really apply. And therefore people don't enjoy it.

Tony Maietta:
And you know, are they upset because it's dated, is that they wish it wasn't dated. How scary would that be?

Brad Shreve:
Well, the simple thing is, unfortunately. Unfortunately, I gotta call bullshit.

Tony Maietta:
Bullshit.

Brad Shreve:
I'm gonna share a quick story here. Okay. I was out to eat, and this was a while back, but it wasn't ancient. I was out to eat with my dad and his wife. And we had dinner with some friends of theirs. And the friend was Talking about that her daughter was coming home from college. And she said, oh, I'm bringing a friend of mine. And they're like, okay, sure.

Brad Shreve:
Then at the last minute, they found out that her friend was a black woman. And they were like. And so she said it for course. We told her she cannot bring her home.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, my God, seriously, plain dumb.

Brad Shreve:
I said, oh, why?

Tony Maietta:
Wow, that's so depressing.

Brad Shreve:
And she's like, well, you know, she'd have to. We'd have to bring her through the back door. And I'm like, why? And she's like, well, we wouldn't want our neighbors to see. I'm like, oh, you have a problem. Her neighbors have a problem when she has friends over. No, we just wouldn't want her there. I'm like, oh, I see. And I almost walked out and I didn't.

Brad Shreve:
And I should have.

Tony Maietta:
Where the hell were you living in 1944?

Brad Shreve:
It was in North Carolina. You know, when I moved to North Carolina, I was really surprised at the number of interracial marriages. And then I realized the two areas I lived beforehand, the black population was almost non existent. So I shouldn't have been surprised. But it still exists, as we can see some recent laws that have passed.

Tony Maietta:
So no, of course. Well, yeah, racism is never going to die. Neither is sexism, neither is homophobia, Neither is any of these blights on human society. But my response when people say, guess who's coming to dinner? Is dated, I say, thank God it's dated. I mean, can you imagine if that was the way the world really felt in 2026? I mean, come on. We have our problems, but we have advanced a bit. At least that's the way. At least we have that.

Tony Maietta:
But that's. Oh, God, that's astounding. That's astounding.

Brad Shreve:
Plus, the whole thing is dated is so ridiculous anyway. I mean, any film is dated.

Tony Maietta:
Any film is dated. Any film is dated.

Brad Shreve:
If you look at it from that perspective, it just is insane. So anyway, I just had to get that out of there. If you think so, you're wrong.

Tony Maietta:
I think that we should probably say so. Surprise. We're talking about Guess who's coming to dinner from Columbia in 1967. This is another in our Best Actress series because somebody in this movie won an Oscar for Best Actress. And we, believe me, we'll discuss that. But this was also a suggestion by our listener Robert in Virginia. See how fast that happened? We just read his letter and now we're doing the movie. See how fast it happens, listeners? We're like instant.

Tony Maietta:
It's instant gratification here on Going Hollywood. Seriously.

Brad Shreve:
And Robert, I think you thanked you before. I gotta say thank you again. This is one of the very first movies when Tony and I talked about what we're gonna do before we even did our first episode, I threw it on the list and it's never been. Neither of us have voided the thing. It just kept getting moved down and moved down and it kept coming up and then we had other things. So thank you. I actually went to my library and said I thought for sure I owned this. Well, now it's in my library.

Tony Maietta:
Well, good. I'm glad. Did you steal it from the library? Is that why it's now in your library?

Brad Shreve:
I had a choice of paying €349 to watch it or €749 to buy it. So why the hell would I watch it?

Tony Maietta:
I think too, and I think one of the reasons why I was never like, oh, God, yeah, we have to do Guess who's Coming to Dinner. It's not that it's dated, but it does. It is full of cliches. It is full of lots of, lots of cliches. So I think that's maybe what. Maybe I'm trying to be generous here. Maybe that's what people are responding to when they say it's dated. Because first of all, the biggest cliche of all is the star in the film is Sidney Poitier playing yet one of his.

Tony Maietta:
Yet another one in his long line of heroic Jesus Christ. Like black men who are so perfect. You're like, why would anybody, anybody have an issue with this guy? The only possible reason someone could have an issue with this guy is because of his color. And ding. That's the point of Guess who's Coming to Dinner. The only issue these people would have with him if he was white. I mean, you know, somebody. I heard somebody say at one point in the movie, you think the phone's gonna ring and he's gonna find out he won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Tony Maietta:
Because this gu so freaking perfect in this film. And Sidney Poitier had a big problem with being typecast like that. And we'll get to that. But I think what the theme of Guess who's Coming to Dinner is, and I also heard this too, besides the theme that love conquers all is the question, but would you want your daughter to marry one? You know, and that's really what Stanley Kramer is asking, asking us. And guess who's coming to dinner. Because Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy who star in this film along with Sidney Poitier. Sidney Poitier are, as he is, like heroic. Perfect specimen of a young black man.

Tony Maietta:
They are the perfect liberal with a capital L. Old school liberal parents, they are. They even have a photo of Franklin Roosevelt on Spencer Tracy's desk in the movie. And so that's kind of the fun thing about it. So, okay, liberal parents. Would you want your daughter to marry one? And that's really the crisis thing. That's the crisis moment. And Guess who's Coming to Dinner Is that question.

Brad Shreve:
And that probably is, to me, the one thing that is dated. You're always gonna find exceptions to this. But interracial marriage was not that common back then. And I can see why. Anyone, regardless of their value.

Tony Maietta:
It was illegal in 17 states when they started production on this movie in

Brad Shreve:
1967. Who wouldn't be terrified about what their kid was gonna go through? So it is understand that I think today, because interracial marriage is not so uncommon, it's actually very common. I think that is over. Because you wouldn't have. It wouldn't be so odd.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
There may be some hesitancy, but not to this degree.

Tony Maietta:
Well, the film was. I don't want to bring it up, but I have to. The film was remade. And that's what we're going to say about it.

Brad Shreve:
I am going to say something about. Because it was. This movie was not remade. That that movie was inspired by.

Tony Maietta:
Okay. Yes. Yes. Thank you.

Brad Shreve:
I was doing some searching for different things and it kept coming up as the remake. And I'm like. Because I actually didn't hate Guess who. It certainly was. It was bad, but I didn't hate it. But I never once saw it as a remake of this film in any way, shape or form.

Tony Maietta:
Right. You're right. And thank you for correcting me. Thank you for correcting the air quotes.

Brad Shreve:
You're not the only one.

Tony Maietta:
You're absolutely right. Inspired. Much, much better way to take it. But we're not going to talk about Guess who. We're going to talk about Guess who's Coming to Dinner. And I think what I. Another thing I really want to point out, and then we'll get into this film, is that Guess who's coming to dinner. 1967 is pretty much considered by most historians the pivotal revolutionary year in Hollywood.

Tony Maietta:
It was the year when old Hollywood went right up against new Hollywood. And if you don't think that's the case, all you gotta do is look at the best picture nominees that year and they were in the heat of the night, the graduates, Bonnie and Clyde representing the new team and Guess who's Coming to Dinner. And yes, it's not a typo. Dr. Dolittle representing the old team. And they came up and bumped up against each other. And it's really also very pivotal. 67.

Tony Maietta:
It was also the death knell of the Production Code administration. So lots was happening. Also some civil unrest, by the way. P.S. in other parts of the world and Vietnam. So it was a pretty, pretty packed year that Guess who's Coming to Dinner premiered in.

Brad Shreve:
It was a very tragic, difficult time because, as you know, one line was cut from this film and was later replaced. But events. I can see why they did.

Tony Maietta:
Right, right. And that event that you're speaking of directly affected the Oscar ceremony that this film was being presented and that it was nominated for. So I guess I want to say Guess who's Coming to Dinner, directed and produced by Stanley Kramer and screenplay by William Rose. We've talked about them before. When have we talked about those two individuals?

Brad Shreve:
Brad, you put me on the spot. I don't know. Together. No. I'm gonna feel like an idiot.

Tony Maietta:
You won't feel like an idiot. It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, okay.

Tony Maietta:
Stanley Kramer produced and directed Mad Mad World. Yeah, it was last year. And William Rose wrote it. And the genesis of this film began when they were making that film, which is kind of an interesting tie. Ten Oscar nominations. And we'll go over these later. Two wins. One for story and screenplay written directly for the screen.

Tony Maietta:
And the other one was for, Indeed, best actress. Kh. Ms. Hepburn. Her second. Second Oscar. Do you know how much time span there was between her first Oscar and her second Oscar? Brad?

Brad Shreve:
I'm not even gonna guess. A long time. Decades.

Tony Maietta:
34 years. Everybody thinks of Hepburn because Hepburn is now the most awarded actress in Academy history, in Hollywood history. Until Meryl Streep finally catches up with her. But everybody thinks. Oh, Hepburn was. Oh, no. There was a 34 year stretch between Hepburn's first Oscar for Morning Glory and her second Oscar for Guess who's Coming to Dinner. And then she just start.

Tony Maietta:
Then it was like the domino effect. Then she got another one. Then she got another one. So it's. It's really fascinating that everyone thinks Hepburn. You know, there was a big dry spell in there for Katharine Hepburn. So when she won this. There's many reasons why she won this Oscar against some pretty iconic performances, by the way.

Tony Maietta:
But this is our best Actress series. So one of the reasons she won this Oscar is because of the sentiment that she hadn't won in 34 years.

Brad Shreve:
And I gotta cover my ass here again, because what was the film that I said that she looked like a witch? What was that film? Because I got flack for that one.

Tony Maietta:
The aforementioned. Not the aforementioned, the wonderful Alice Adams.

Brad Shreve:
Okay, I bring it up because I got some flack for that. And I don't want anyone to think I don't love and adore Kate Hepburn.

Tony Maietta:
You love her. You love her more than I do.

Brad Shreve:
Probably I do. And I've told this story before, but, you know, when someone dies, people go to their star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and start putting flowers and doing the quick memorial. I was walking down the Hollywood Walk of Fame, down, actually, to the Gayne Lesbian center, as a matter of fact, down. And I saw all these flowers, and I'm like, huh, Wonder what's going on? And I walked up and they were on Katharine Hepburn's Star. And I bawled.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I bawled. It's very sad now. I was affected by her death, too. Cause she'd been around for so long, you know, she was truly. By the end of her life, she was an institution. And she designed it that way, this woman. I mean, Joan Crawford, canning about her career right behind her. Katharine Hepburn.

Tony Maietta:
Katharine Hepburn crafted her legend while she was still very much alive, because she wasn't doing anything else in her townhouse on the Upper east side, but that and yelling at Stephen Sondheim for playing his piano too loud. So she was. She, like Crawford, made a huge comeback with the Philadelphia Story and then crafted the rest of her career in. And her relationship with Tracy, as we've talked about before, to mythic status. And that's why the woman is number one, I believe, in those lists of the top Hollywood stars of all time. So there you go. Do we want to go over the cast list of this film that we're talking about? Brad, do you have it?

Brad Shreve:
Of course. Of course. Would you like me to do that?

Tony Maietta:
Yes, please, be my guest.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, we've discussed Katharine Hepburn. If you haven't figured out she's in this film.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, just a bit.

Brad Shreve:
Katharine plays the mother in the film. Her name is Christina Drayton, and she owns an art gallery. Then we have Spencer Tracy, the wonderful Spencer Tracy. And I gotta say one thing about Spencer. I feel the same way I do about Henry Fonda. Henry Fonda's farewell was on Golden Pond, and Spencer Tracy's was Guess who's Coming to Dinner. I think that's wonderful for both those Men.

Tony Maietta:
Thanks to who? Who do you think? Thanks to Katharine Hepburn and Stanley Kramer.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Oh, my God, I did.

Tony Maietta:
Because of them. His last film could have been It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, which wouldn't have been such a bad thing to go out on. No, but because. Because Kramer treated him with kid gloves. And Spencer Tracy was very, very, very one more very ill this entire time. And we'll talk about that when we get to the production. But it's because of Hepburn shepherding him through this production and taking care of him that he was able to complete this film and give probably one of the greatest meta monologues in movie history at the very end. So that's.

Tony Maietta:
We have. We have Mr. Tracy. We have.

Brad Shreve:
There's a lot of great monologues in here. Some, I mean short, but there's a lot of great ones in this film that I'm like, God, I don't remember. There are so many great ones. But after that, we have Sir Sidney poitier. He played Dr. John Wade Prentice, the black incredible doctor that everyone would love and adore.

Tony Maietta:
The Second Coming.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, exactly. Too good to be true. Then we have Kathryn. Is it Houghton.

Tony Maietta:
Houghton. Catherine Houghton.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Okay. She played Joanna or Joey, the Spencer and Catherine's daughter, Joanna. Then we have Cecil Calloway, who great long term character actor. I always liked him. He was Monsignor Mike Ryan, Matt's friend. And then I guess the last. Well, there's three more I want to go over really quickly.

Brad Shreve:
First one is Bea Richards. She was Sidney Poitier's mother. I just. This woman speaks with her face. I just love this woman.

Tony Maietta:
Brilliant, brilliant.

Brad Shreve:
And then we have Roy E. Glenn Sr. Man, I don't know what all he's been, but seen him in a million things. He's a great actor. And then of course, we have the wonderful Isabel Sanford as Tilly, the family movie.

Tony Maietta:
I can just think, George. I mean, her voice wasn't there yet, but wow. Isabel Sanford in this movie. So.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, hell's done broke loose now.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, hell's done broke loose now.

Brad Shreve:
I do have to add one more name because it's my favorite scene in the whole movie. Yeah, I could just watch it on repeat. Virginia Christine as Hilary St John who works for Christine at the art gallery.

Tony Maietta:
It's every gay man's favorite scene in this movie because it's the scene where Hepburn tells Virginia Christine to get permanently lost. How many of us have not. Don't speak, just go. How many of us have wanted to tell somebody get permanently lost? Don't speak. Just go.

Brad Shreve:
Love it. Clean up your office so it doesn't look like you've ever worked there or something like that.

Tony Maietta:
No, it's great. I have the lines we can talk about when we talk about the movie and the scene. But I have to ask you, you just went through the cast and you mentioned the actress who plays Joey, Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn's daughter in this film, played by Katharine Houghton. Do you know who Katherine Houghton is?

Brad Shreve:
I know that she is Hepburn's niece.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Yes, exactly. She's Katharine Hepburn's niece. She's the daughter of Hepburn's sister Marian.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I learned that sometime long ago, and I don't know why that. Must have saw an interview or something.

Tony Maietta:
Well, first of all, there's that family resemblance. So you see the. The scenes she has with her Aunt Kate, her Aunt Kat. There's a familial thing there. Even though they were not close, you know, Houghton said she barely saw her aunt because her aunt was off in Hollywood, you know, or in New York making films and doing theater. And Katharine Hepburn herself said, but I was a great aunt. I was Aunt Cat. I was Aunt Cat.

Tony Maietta:
And you see that relationship later on, they became very close, but you see that relationship. And unfortunately, another criticism of this film is the fact that the weakest link in this entire stellar cast is Katherine Houghton. She was a very young actress. This is one of her very first credits. And can you imagine one of your. First of all, you're in this film with your aunt, who happens to be Katharine Hepburn, and everything that comes with Katharine Hepburn. And you're up against, not only Katharine Hepburn, but Sidney Poitier is your love interest, and your father is the lion himself, Spencer Tracy. So can you imagine how intimidating that was? In fact, here's a funny story.

Tony Maietta:
The first day that Houghton was filming her first scene, she said she was so nervous, she filmed the scene, they went cut, and from across the soundstage, she heard this voice saying, is that the way you're going to play that? Now imagine how nervous you are, and you get called on the carpet by your aunt.

Brad Shreve:
I wouldn't have come back the next day. I don't think I could have done it.

Tony Maietta:
All right, that's your choice. Okay, then. Interesting choice. Yeah. This is a phenomenal, phenomenal cast. These are all people that brought together by Stanley Kramer to support Spencer Tracy. So I think we should give a little background about how this all came about, like we always do. Won't be too long, but.

Tony Maietta:
But I think what I want to point Out. And what, Brett, we reiterate what we said before is that interracial marriage was still illegal in 17 states when this film started production. Now, during, after it was released, Loving vs. Virginia, the Supreme Court decision which, you know, decriminalized marriage between the races happened. So when it was released, it wasn't. But when it was in production, it was. And Kramer and Houghton both received death threats after this film came out. No other people that I've heard of did, except those two people, which is very interesting.

Tony Maietta:
It's very interesting. But William Rose had kind of been working on an interracial love story about marriage, interracial marriage, since 1962, while he was working on It's a Mad, Mad, Mad Mad World. And according to Kramer, Rose first brought the idea to him after another project they had been working on, Andersonville, was canceled by Columbia Pictures. Now, according to Rose, he proposed the idea to Kramer when they were making Mad Mad World. But that's neither here nor there. The point was, was that Kramer wanted to do this. They wanted to make this. To intentionally structure the film to debunk ethnic stereotypes.

Tony Maietta:
And here's something that people don't. I think people forget. Even though this film is full of humor, this is a comedy. Ladies and gentlemen, Guess who's Coming to Dinner is a comedy. It has serious moments, but it is designed as a comedy. And I always. I don't forget that, but I remember, oh, yeah, this is a comedy. There's some very funny, funny things in this.

Tony Maietta:
And the funny things come kind of come out. They're mostly Isabel Sanford, but they kind of come out of left field because it seems like such a serious issue film. Right. And what did we say about Stanley Kramer in his films? Brad, you remember when we talked about Mad Mad World, how he did serious issue driven films, films about fascism, films about the Holocaust, films about nuclear destruction, racism, you know, and this is another one of Stan Lee's films. But he knew that the best way to get a message across was in a comedy. People are going to pay more attention to something you're trying to say if they don't feel like they're being beaten over the head with it. Which in this film is debatable. It's debatable.

Brad Shreve:
And that's really interesting. I don't even know if I've given it much, much thought. If somebody said, what is the movie? Obviously I would start to describe it. And they're like, no, no, no, no. What is it? What's the shot? Is it. Is it drama? Is it a Suspense. Is it a comedy? I wouldn't go suspense, but I would be if I had to give one. I don't know.

Brad Shreve:
That would have been difficult, now that you mentioned it.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, it's definitely. I guess you could kind of say it's a comedy drama, but there are some wonderfully funny, funny scenes in this. And obviously the charm of Hepburn and Tracy at this late stage in their career together. This was their ninth and obviously final film since Spencer Tracy died 17 days after his final shot. Their ninth film together. And you know, it was like tennis. You know, it was like a great.

Tony Maietta:
It was a great tennis match between them because they could lobby back and forth and back and forth. And that wonderful scene where they go to get the. The ice cream, the Oregon Boysenberry sherbert, which, by the way, was the last scene that Spencer Tracy filmed in his life, period. The end is so wonderfully charming and funny. It's not like, aha, laugh out, laugh funny, but it's smile funny, it's chuckle funny. You know, it's like Adam's rib. You know, it's that kind of humor. That kind of humor.

Brad Shreve:
It's a dramedy before the term was ever coined.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly, exactly. So when Kramer was designing this film with Rose, they intentionally decided that the part of the doctor to be played by Sidney Poitier was created idealistically perfect on purpose, so that the only thing anybody could possibly object to was the fact that he was black. It couldn't have anything to do with his character. You know, this guy, I think he graduated from a top school. He was a doctor. He had worked in Africa. He refused to have premarital sex with Joey, even though she wanted it. And one of the funniest moments is when she tells that to Katharine Hepburn and Katharine Hepburn's ironing.

Tony Maietta:
And the take that Hepburn does when she hears Joey say that is priceless. It's priceless. And it was on purpose. He even left money in the desk by the telephone when he made a long distance phone call on Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn's phone. So, I mean, this guy is so perfect, it's difficult to believe. And that's on purpose.

Brad Shreve:
Are you familiar with the actor Stepan? Fetch it. Of course he had something to say about this film.

Tony Maietta:
What did he say?

Brad Shreve:
He was not fond of it. He said it did more to discourage interracial marriage than encourage it. And basically he said Sidney was too white not to be accepted. I don't know if I like that verbiage, but that's what he Said, well, it's kind of like when they used to say the Cosby show was too white.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I mean, that's. I mean, hello. That's a racist statement right there. Exactly.

Brad Shreve:
I agree with you.

Tony Maietta:
Crazy. It's crazy. But, you know, Kramer was trying to drive the point home and he. He was going to drive it home more by having the biggest. Really, not just the biggest black actor in Hollywood at the time. The only black actor. The only black movie star. I should say the only black movie star at the time because this was definitely, definitely Sidney Poitier's era.

Tony Maietta:
He had hit after hit. He appeared in two of the five best picture nominees this year and he also appeared in three, but he was cut. But he was fired from Dr. Dolittle. He wasn't. The character was eliminated. He wasn't fired. So he would have been in three.

Tony Maietta:
And he made To Sir With Love at this time. He had done A Patch of Blue the year before. I mean, this man was hot, hot, hot. And unfortunately, after 1967, his career plummeted for many reasons which we'll get to when we get to the end. And he just. I mean, he kept working and he became an incredible director and the icon he is now. But it was most. A lot of it was because he was so tired of playing this perfect, more than perfect, leading man.

Tony Maietta:
He wanted to play a real, real person. Real person.

Brad Shreve:
That would get boring.

Tony Maietta:
Of course it would. You want. You know, it's not. It's so boring for an actor to play a perfect person. You know, you want flaws. That's where the meat is in acting. That's what the fun is in acting. But Kramer knew he had to have the perfect John Prentice, Sidney Poitier.

Tony Maietta:
And he wanted to pair them with again. Who could he possibly pair them with? He has an icon in Poitier who can be the parents. Well, it's got to. It can only be Hepburn and Tracy. The only problem is that Hepburn and Tracy had pretty much both retired from films. Hepburn hadn't made a film since 1962, the brilliant Long Day's Journey Into Night. And Tracy had almost died a couple years later from a heart attack and pretty much hadn't left his house, his bungalow on George Cukor's estate, for two years. So the trick was to get them to get Traci and Hepburn into the project and then thereby have Poitiers.

Tony Maietta:
So Kramer kind of did one of those things with both of them. Both, like with Tracy and Hepburn and with Poitier saying, guess who I'm Going to co star you with before he went to the other person, you know, guess who's going to be your co star. Sydney. Oh, really? Hey, Kate and Spence, guess who's going to be your co star? Poitier. And then he asked them. So very smart. He was a producer first and foremost, but he also talked to Kate and, you know, said, look, this is probably going to be Tracy's last film. Everybody knows this.

Tony Maietta:
The man is on his last leg. Can we do this? And that was really, really it. Hepburn was like, this is my last opportunity to be on screen with this man who is arguably the love of her life. We talked about this before, Brad, about their relationship, and what did we say about it? Do you remember?

Brad Shreve:
I remember over the years, it was always whenever one of them wanted to get together with the other, that one of each one was married each time. But you pointed out that you believed there wasn't as big of a romance as people made it out to be, that Kate kind of pumped that up kind of for her publicity, as you said, to kind of get good stories out there. Do you still feel that way?

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Well, Katharine Hepburn crafted the myth of Tracy and Hepburn after Spencer Tracy died, actually after his wife Louise died, because she didn't want to hurt anybody.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
And what I said was, when they first met in Woman of the year in 1942. Yes. You want anybody who watches Woman of the Year, it's undeniable. They see each other. It's like a cataclysm. There is immediate, overwhelming chemistry. They are so hot for each other. And Woman of the Year, it's astounding.

Tony Maietta:
It's so. Yes, it began as a very passionate love affair, but over the years, as life went on and Tracy dealt with his demons and Hepburn was doing her stuff, you know, maybe she would, you know, because Hepburn did have attraction to women, maybe Tracy had attraction to men. There are arguments about that. It ended up being a very, very warm, close friendship. Till this point in their lives, they were really platonic life partners. Hepburn was at this time, Tracy's caregiver. I mean, because Traci needed a caregiver and Hepburn was his loving, devoted caregiver. She adored this man.

Tony Maietta:
Whether it be. Whether they were. I mean, come on, they're not gonna be having sex. He's. He's almost dying and, you know, she's. That's not happening anymore. That's not part of the equation. Anybody who's together for a long period of time, you hope that kind of goes to the wayside.

Tony Maietta:
But what Takes this place is this kind of warm, loving, supportive relationship. And that's exactly what it was. And then afterwards, she crafted that myth until it became iconic.

Brad Shreve:
Traci and Hepburn, based on everything you've told me about Kate, none of that surprises me.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I mean, it's just she was a loyal, devoted friend, lover, air quotes, spouse, if you will. But that was their relationship. So Hepburn convinced Tracy to do it. But what really convinced them all was when Kramer pitched. First of all, told them who they'd be co starring with and then pitch the idea. They both felt, this is a very important idea. This is a very important film and it needs to be made, and we want to be a part of it. We want to be a part of it.

Tony Maietta:
So should we go? Should I go into the production of it?

Brad Shreve:
No, I think we've ended the show.

Tony Maietta:
Okay, bye.

Brad Shreve:
Go for it.

Tony Maietta:
So I want. No, this is a point in the program where I want to bust a myth. Let's do some mist busting. It's kind of like our Lucy moments. The mist bust, the myth busting. It's easier to say a Lucy moment, though. So Columbia could not get insurance for Spencer Tracy to do this film. And the legend is that after one day of filming, Columbia canceled the production, they said, because they couldn't get insurance for Tracy.

Tony Maietta:
However, it's also rumored the real reason was they got cold feet about doing this interracial love story, and they used that as an excuse to break it down. So since they used that as an excuse, they couldn't get insurance for Tracy. According to Kramer, he and Hepburn put both of their salaries in escrow as insurance. So if something did happen to Spencer to cover the delays, if he had to drop out, if he died while they were making the film, that money would cover all of the production delays and having to start the movie over again. All right, so that's the legend, that's the story, that's what everybody believes. However, this is where, really, that's what I always heard. That's what you always heard. So we're gonna bust a myth here.

Tony Maietta:
First of all, Columbia, Columbia would not have been afraid to do an interracial love story. Just a couple years before, I think 65 Poitier had done a film called A Patch of Blue in which he had an interracial love story. Now, it was with a blind girl, but still, it was an interracial love story. And it was a huge, huge hit. It made a ton of money. A Patch of Blue did in 1965. So Columbia wasn't going to be afraid of this. They're like, yeah, this is obviously a hot topic.

Tony Maietta:
In the Heat of the Night had just been filmed. So this is. There is not. Yeah, this is not a problem here. Also, the whole idea of Kramer and Hepburn putting their salaries in escrow is a beautiful story. It's not true. It's not true.

Brad Shreve:
See that one made. I really love that story. Now you bust.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's here. But this might. This might help you a little bit because this is what happened, okay? So all these. These. These stories, these legends are mostly the embellishment of Stanley Kramer, okay? A wonderful filmmaker, wonderful producer, and he could produce a story. And you know what they always say, truth versus accuracy and all that stuff. So here's the story's kind of truthful, even if it's not accurate. What happened was, was that it was in their contracts, okay? Tracy could not get insurance.

Tony Maietta:
This is true. He could not get cast insurance. So what happened was this. So Tracy was gonna get $200,000 for this film and top billing, by the way. But he was not to receive a penny of that until after production wrapped. And then after that, it was going to be paid out in increments. Hepburn was to receive $150,000 third billing, but was also not going to receive a penny of that until the. After the production wrapped.

Tony Maietta:
In addition, and this is the part that I think will warm your heart. In addition to that, she agreed that any delays or any costs due to Spencer's illness would be taken out of her salary and she would forfeit her salary completely. If Spencer had to be recast, even if she were gonna stay in the movie, she would forfeit her salary completely. Now here's where Kramer comes in. So Spencer had a really bad health scare in early 1967, okay, pre production. And people started to get scared. So what Kramer did, and this was very, very detrimental. Cause he didn't have a lot of money.

Tony Maietta:
His movies were always losing money. He agreed to put his $500,000 to get that $500,000 they're gonna get for producing, directing this movie. His payment would also be deferred. So you can kind of see where the idea of them putting their salaries in escrow came from, because they weren't contractually going to get them until the movie was wrapped. And we knew there was no issue, okay? And Kramer did that also. So you can kind of see where he got that story. So it kind of makes sense. Kind of doesn't make sense.

Tony Maietta:
But what. What's that famous line from the man who shot Liberty Valance. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend. And that's exactly what we have here. This legend is now a fact in Hollywood. I gotta sit down.

Brad Shreve:
And I agree with that.

Tony Maietta:
All right, I've just told you a whole bunch of information about the background and everything about this movie. Brad, why don't you tell us what this movie's about?

Brad Shreve:
Well, I hope I know everybody. There's not much to tell.

Tony Maietta:
Hope you remember the daughter.

Brad Shreve:
And I got him. Joey goes to Hawaii and she falls in love with Sidney Poitier's character, Dr. Prentiss. After only 10 days, they decide to get married. I have issues with this. We'll get into. After 10 days, they decide to get married. They go back to San Francisco.

Brad Shreve:
He is about to go work for the World Health Organization in Africa. And she has to tell her parents that she is engaged to a black man. And they are very liberal. So of course she assumes that everything's gonna be hunky dory. And of course it's not because they're dealing with. I was gonna say internalized racism, but that's not true. It was always made very clear that the shock.

Tony Maietta:
It's a shock.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, the shock which that I get because that would have been horribly shocking. But Kate's character got over it pretty quickly, that heavy shock. Spencer was more reluctant. His character, Matt. But in the end it came down to his concern.

Tony Maietta:
It's that question. It's that question. But would you want your daughter to marry one? Okay. We all feel that we're open minded, liberal, fair thinking people until it hits home. And then you have to ask yourself, oh, you know, it's that question that you have to ask your. They have. You have to ask yourself when it comes home, how do I feel about it? But what's interesting is that they only have the time crunches. They have a day, basically.

Tony Maietta:
They come back to San Francisco to tell Joey's parents about the marriage. They have a day to do it. And Poitier's character, Dr. Prentiss, John Prentiss, tells Spencer Tracy something he didn't tell Joey. He didn't tell his fiance that it's up to Spencer Tracy. If Spencer Tracy says no, he will not marry her. So Tracy's like, what the fuck? Not only do you come in here and give me a day to make this decision, but now you're telling me it's all in my hands. So the man's in a quandary.

Tony Maietta:
The man is in a quandary. And that's pretty much the nut of this movie. We also have Isabel Sanford as the maid, Tilly. She's a member of the family, so she speaks her mind. And boy, does she speak her mind.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, she does.

Tony Maietta:
And Prentiss, also Joey, Katherine Houghton's character, invites Sidney Poitier's parents to fly up from Los Angeles to have dinner. Thus the guess who's coming to dinner part of this. When Katharine Hepburn says. And Tracy says, who? Not his parents. So they all come together on this night in San Francisco to suss this out. And it's Tracy has an epiphany near the end of the film and does this beautiful, lovely, wonderful monologue that sums it all up in the end. And they go have dinner. Cause guess who's coming to dinner.

Brad Shreve:
The whole film takes place in six hours. A lot happened in those six hours.

Tony Maietta:
Real time. I love that.

Brad Shreve:
Real time.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
That would have been two hours.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I guess. Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. I was like, this is films in real time. I'm like, no, it doesn't, Tony. It starts, I think, one of my favorite moments. Another funny moment, another great Katharine Hepburn funny moment is when she first sees Sidney Poitier. Because she's facing the door to Tracy's office.

Tony Maietta:
And Kathryn Houghton's character, Joey, is on her knees in front of Hepburn, talking to her about this doctor. And Katharine Hepburn's smile is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. She's so happy for her daughter. And then the door opens and Katharine Hepburn looks up and this very handsome black man is standing there. And the smile just slowly drains from Katherine Hepburn. And she's just in shock. She's in shock. But you're right.

Tony Maietta:
She gets over it much, much quicker than anybody else does in this movie.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, she does. It is a great scene. And I love the look on her face. And again, there's so much emotion in her face. But you did get something wrong. You referred to him as a very handsome black man. Remember? He ain't all that good looking.

Tony Maietta:
That's true. He ain't even all that good looking. You ain't even all that good looking. That's one of Isabel Sanford's lines to him. Because she is not having it. She is the most racist character in this movie, by the way. P.S. is the maid, Tilly.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, she calls him the N word. She calls him boy. She just comes right out and says things to him. And you're just like, oh, my God. You know, so it's that. It's kind of like that it's just interesting that she is the most racist character in this household, full of liberals who are struggling with their own possible internal racism.

Brad Shreve:
Don't know the exact words she used, but basically she was upset that he didn't know his place, that he was trying to get up and above where he was. And I did work with a woman that was like that. She grew up in the south and she knew her place, and that's where it was. And it was very sad for me to watch. So I do hope those days are over.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, it was the era. Think about it. I mean, civil rights. The civil rights struggle was, what, five years old? I mean, the laws had just been passed a couple years before. So it's very, very much of its time. And some people say it's dated. Yes. Thank God it's dated.

Tony Maietta:
Thank God. Hopefully people don't have issues like that.

Brad Shreve:
I want to go back to Katherine Houghton, and I'm going to defend her a little bit here. And, you know, maybe a different actress would have done this differently. And it's impossible for me and probably most people to picture somebody else in a particular role. Like, could they have done this better? And what I'm gonna bring up is the fact that she is the weak link. I feel like character didn't really have much. I mean, she was just this naive girl who. That's my biggest issue in this film is Dr. Prentiss.

Brad Shreve:
I can't imagine him having fallen for this young girl.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly. Exactly. What the hell could you possibly find appealing about this. This young, naive, silly girl? What possibly could he find?

Brad Shreve:
I could see, because we know that his first wife died in an accident with his son. And all it would have taken me is a line to his dad or somebody, just to his dad. She makes me feel young again. She makes me feel like something I've never felt before. Now, maybe that's supposed to be implied, but I don't think it was implied enough.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
If there was something in there that even he's astonished that he felt. Felt for this young lady, I can't

Tony Maietta:
see much that there is nothing she

Brad Shreve:
has to offer him. And I'm talking about as far as maybe she's better educated than was shown in the film. I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
No. Well, there were some cuts made which Hepburn said actually weakened the character of Joey even more. So there's that. But the reason for that is true is that, in essence, this movie is about a different couple. This movie isn't about Poitier and Houghton. This movie is about Tracy and Hepburn, I mean, that's just it. Yeah, it really is. And that's kind of what people say, oh, she's such a weak character.

Tony Maietta:
Why would he fall for her? Well, they're not the point. The point is the final performance of this great romantic team. The last time they're together. That's the point of the movie. And when you remember that and when you see that, it really doesn't matter that she's kind of a. She's kind of a nudge, that character. And it's unfortunate the character is weak. Not Catherine Houghton.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, Katherine Houghton was a perfectly good actress. It's. She has nothing to play. You know, she has nothing to play but this kind of naive, bubble headed, gushing girl. So, I mean, that's. That's just the way it is. But the movie's about Hepburn and Tracy. And Poitiers knew this.

Tony Maietta:
And Poitier, I mean, this actor, this was the first black actor to win an Oscar. He won for Lilies of the field in 1963. He was pretty much not just the biggest black movie star at this time, he was one of the biggest movie stars at this time. Okay. He had hit after hit after hit. And he said he was so starstruck and intimidated by working with Hepburn and Tracy that, you know, there's a scene where he's talking to them early in the film. They're in Tracy's office and Poitier comes in and talks to them. And he couldn't do it.

Tony Maietta:
And he told Kramer, you have to send them home. Kramer's like, I'm sending Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy home. He's like, I can't do it. I can't do it. Send them home and I'll do it to chairs. And that's what he did. He sent Trace. Tracy was probably like, good, I'm done.

Tony Maietta:
I'm exhausted. I'm going home. He sent Traci and Hepburn home, and Poitier did that scene to their empty chairs. So, I mean, even a man, a talent, a human being as great as Sidney Poitier was intimidated by these two legends that were standing in front of him.

Brad Shreve:
Now that's an awesome story.

Tony Maietta:
As opposed to my other stories, which are just like Yawners.

Brad Shreve:
No, they weren't. I never heard that one. I love that.

Tony Maietta:
No, it's fun. It's fun. But, you know, this film, this film was designed around Spencer Tracy's illness. You know, all of Spencer Tracy's scenes were shot or filmed between 9am and noon because that was when he had the most energy. And then after that, they did the rest of the scenes. And if Spencer Tracy could only get through one take, he could only get through one take. That was it. Hepburn would often say that was good enough, wasn't it? Wasn't it, Stanley? We got it that time.

Tony Maietta:
She was very protective of him. Obviously she was going to shepherd him through this film, and she did. And Poitier even said that the. The illness of Tracy dominated everything in this film. And I guess I want to ask you, because everybody was afraid he wouldn't be able to finish it if they pushed him too hard. So I guess I want to ask you, knowing Spencer Tracy and I. Huge Spencer Tracy fan, seeing him in this film, how believable do you think, as far as his health, as far as his vitality is he in the part of Matt, do you think he pulls it off?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Physically, he looks much older than 67 years old. Physically, he looks much older, but I think he knocked out of the park. He did not act like a man on his last leg, in my opinion.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Amanda was going to die 17 days after film finishing this film. Yeah. I find him. I find him incredibly moving, particularly in his last speech. Yes, I find it incredibly moving, which took many days to film and many, many takes. That. That speeches consists of many different takes.

Tony Maietta:
But when he finished that speech and they knew they had it, he got a standing ovation from the crew. And according to Kramer, they had a little cast party afterwards and he didn't stay for it. He was too tired. But he did go home and call everybody he knew and said, I got through it. I got through it. And he was a very, very happy man, which I think is such a moving, a moving story. This is one of the, if not the greatest film actors ever. Ever.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, I don't like declarative statements, but I dare anybody to object to that. This man was an actor's actor. Everybody loved, adored and respected Spencer Tracy. So for him not to be able. For him to think he wasn't going to be able to finish a film and then to be able to do it and be so happy about it is such a moving, moving thing. I find him incredibly frail in this movie. And I think about if it was the SPENCER Tracy from 10 years earlier, from, say, Desk Set, his last film with Hepburn that they did before, 10 years before, when he had such energy and vitality, it would have been a different film. It would have been a different film.

Tony Maietta:
He seems very, very frail to me in this, and maybe that fragility is also what makes his last speech so moving because he is so frail. And that last monologue he delivers, which we will get to, just brings you to tears. It's just such a moving, moving monologue.

Brad Shreve:
I felt he looked more frail. Frailer, whatever. The word is. I like frailer. I don't think it's a word, but I'm gonna stick with it. I think he looked more that way and it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world than he did here.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, wow.

Brad Shreve:
Because like you said, they did so many takes. That could be it.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah. And they babied him on this. They totally babied him on this. As opposed to what studio allows a

Brad Shreve:
guy to work only three hours a day? That is astonishing to me. It's a good thing they didn't have, really any sets. Even the. You probably know, the Mel's Drive in scene, all the exterior shots were done with doubles.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. In process. Shots on the car. No, I mean, that's one reason they were able to do it. They were also able to do it because the budget was incredibly low. So they could.

Tony Maietta:
So they didn't have to worry about it. But he's Spencer Tracy. And everybody knew, as I just said, Poitier knew this illness overshadowed the entire set. But the monologue. The monologue at the very end, we have to talk about it. So what happens is the parents come up. Poitier's parents, John's parents come up from Los Angeles. They didn't know Katherine Houghton was white.

Tony Maietta:
They're just as shocked as everybody else. And everybody has conversations. Everybody talks about this. And Hepburn talks with Bea Richards, the beautiful actress. Bea Richards, who plays Poitier's mother. Lovely, lovely woman. And Tracy talks with his father. And the women are all okay with this.

Tony Maietta:
That's so amazing to me. The women immediately feel the love, the caring there. They're empathetic for this young couple. They are immediately embracing this love story. The men, not so much. The men think about. Oh, they're very pragmatic. Think about the problems they're gonna have.

Tony Maietta:
What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen? And Bea Richards says to Spencer Tracy, you're just. Both of you. You and my husband are best too old and too basically decrepit. I'm paraphrasing here. To ever remember what it's like to be in love. And that's the key. That's the tipping point for Spencer Tracy. That's his aha moment.

Tony Maietta:
And he goes off and thinks. And he brings everybody back into the living room to talk to them, including Tilly. He said, tilly, get in here. Because she's a member of the family. And he does this whole big monologue, which I said took days to put together. And it's basically a meta summation of his relationship with Hepburn. I mean, at least that's the way I feel about it. And I think that's most of the way most people think about it.

Tony Maietta:
What is your thought? What are your thoughts about that final speech of his, Brad? Because he kind of goes through the whole day and everything that's happened and then he comes up with his final thoughts on this union.

Brad Shreve:
To me, it's one of the greatest monologues because it sounds so sincere and so beautiful. It always moves me and never ceases to not move me. And like you said, that moment when he's doing the speech and he makes it clear that Bea Richards character, Mary Prentiss, is the one that said the words that made him realize that basically he was acting like an idiot or not an idiot. He was dealing with his true emotions.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. He wasn't focusing on the important part, which was the love between them.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And just the whole thing. And actually, that speech is very moving and has its comedic moment. Like when he tells Joey to shut up.

Tony Maietta:
For one of the last times in your life, I can tell you that. Shut up. And you're like, yay. Thank you. Thank you. Shut up. Shut up. Katherine Houghton.

Speaker B:
Yay.

Brad Shreve:
And there's other humor in there.

Tony Maietta:
Here's what he says. This is in a nutshell. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that your son feels for my daughter that I didn't feel for Christina. Old, yes. Burned out, certainly. But I can tell you those memories are still there. Because in the final analysis, it doesn't matter a damn what we think. The only thing that matters is what they feel and how much they feel for each other.

Tony Maietta:
And if it's half of what we felt, that's everything. And then he stops and he looks at Katharine Hepburn. And of course, Hepburn's eyes are filled with tears because this isn't just Matt and Christina talking to each other. It's Spencer Tracy talking to Katharine Hepburn. And that is the most beautiful meta moment. Hepburn's on the verge of tears throughout this whole movie, by the way.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Not on the verge. Her eyes.

Tony Maietta:
She's crying through this whole movie. Now, that could be because of her eye infection she got when she fell in the Venice Canal in summertime. But no, it's because this whole film is about goodbye and what he's saying to her, basically, is, I love you, and it's a beautiful. That's what makes this film. I can forget everything else, all the cliches, everything else. It's that moment that everybody, I think, responds to and loves about this movie.

Brad Shreve:
I agree with you there. I could actually sit here and rip this film apart in many different ways. There's continuity errors, little ones, but there's continuity errors that should have been caught. As I said, the issue I had with the couple, I have issues with him saying, you know, you gotta make this decision in three hours or. It's all. It's just. There's so much wrong, but it doesn't matter. It's just a beautiful film.

Brad Shreve:
And I. I've watched it I don't know how many times. I love it just as much every single time. That's why I was astonished. I was astounded. Maurice goes, oh, good. When I told him, this is what we're gonna watch, he goes, oh, good, we own it. And I went back to him and I said, you know what? We didn't own it.

Brad Shreve:
I just bought it.

Tony Maietta:
It's that speech. It's that final speech, you know? And I guess we should say the film starts with the singing the Glory of Love, which is the cheesiest version of the glory of love you've ever heard. Yes, but it's what this film is about. This film is about the glory of love, the love that overcomes everything. It's about the love between Tracy and Hepburn. It's about the love between the characters that Poitier and Houghton play. It's the glory of love. And that's the film, folks.

Tony Maietta:
That's the movie. They go off to dinner because it's guess who's coming to dinner. So they're gonna finally eat that dinner.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about how this movie was received, dollars and cents and otherwise. But gotta do my usual spiel.

Tony Maietta:
Housekeeping.

Brad Shreve:
We would love for you to reach out and share your thoughts about the show. Let us know as. As you see, we're getting more and more episodes that are based on listener requests. Yeah, you can do that by sending us an email@goinghollywoodpodmail.com or at the. The bottom of the show notes or somewhere in the show notes, it says text or leave a voicemail. If you click on that, you can send us a text and we'll get it. And you can also leave a voicemail. We'd love it if you'd leave a voicemail.

Brad Shreve:
Because then we can actually play that here on the podcast. And if you don't want us to leave at the end, don't run this. But either way, we'd love to hear from you. And one extra step that we're going to ask you to do. And this is a big one. Rate and review this podcast, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to this show.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. That's great. That's great. See how many requests we're getting from movies, folks. We're filling up. We are filling up fast. I'm like, hold on a second, hold on a second. We got some movies we want to talk about too.

Tony Maietta:
But we're filling up, we're filling up. So get your requests in here if you really want us to talk about something. This is again, another perfect example of when I was like, with Brad. Eh. Because Brad had been recommending this over and over again and I never said no. I'm like, maybe. And you know, because Richard reached out to us from Virginia. Here you go.

Tony Maietta:
We're doing it now. We're doing it now.

Brad Shreve:
So if you have an idea, please let us know. Because most likely it's a film I wanted to do and Tony has nixed it. So you make my day.

Tony Maietta:
It's two. It's two.

Brad Shreve:
So how did this movie do? Did people like this film? Well, as Tony said, it was a really low budget film. 4 million. I didn't realize it was that low. Yeah, but it grossed $57 million. Rounded up.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
So it made some money. It was up against quite a few big films. The Jungle Book was number one that year. Now it made a whole lot more money. 141 million. And the only thing I'm gonna say about Jungle Book, it has my favorite Disney song, Bare Necessities. And then we had the Graduate. And then Guess who's Coming to dinner was number three.

Brad Shreve:
So you had two powerhouses that were over $100 million. And then you had Guess who's Coming to Dinner. And then other movies that year were Bonnie and Clyde, Dirty Dozens. The list goes out to Sarah With Love, another great Sidney Poitier film. List goes on and on and on. How it was received, it was. It had mixed reviews, as we've already talked about. Everybody felt it was heartfelt.

Brad Shreve:
People really liked it in that sense. It wasn't really seen as being groundbreaking in sending out a message. I think people were already there or were over that, depending on who you were at the time you were there, which would be great. Or you didn't want to hear it. And then today, if we go to Rotten Tomatoes, the audience score is 85%, which is pretty good. The critics score lower than I would have expected. The critics score came to a 71% average. And probably for the reasons I just gave nobody thought was groundbreaking.

Brad Shreve:
They just thought it was a nice film.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it was mixed reviews, definitely. However, it did nab 10, as I said before, 10 Oscar nominations, two wins. It was also nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Best Actor. Now, Spencer Tracy died, as we said, 17 days after filming the Oregon Boys and Barry Sherbet scene. So this would have been a posthumous Oscar. Best Actress, Katharine Hepburn. Best Supporting Actor, Cecil Calloway. Best Supporting Actress, Beah Richards.

Tony Maietta:
Best Story and Screenplay Written directly for the Screen, William Rose, Best Art Direction, Best Film Editing, and Best Original Score or Adaption. And the winner was. Yes, indeed. After 34 fricking years, the winner was indeed, Ms. Katharine Hepburn. And do you know who. Who announced that, Brad? Who announced her Oscar win on the podium? You know who it was?

Brad Shreve:
No.

Tony Maietta:
Sidney Poitier. It was so great. It was Sidney Poitier.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, my God. So, okay, now I'm embarrassed.

Tony Maietta:
So let's talk about Katharine Hepburn, because this is our Best Actress series. Let's talk about this Oscar. We've already talked a little bit about Hepburn in this film. Hepburn could never watch this film, obviously, after it was made. I mean, are you surprised?

Brad Shreve:
I can only imagine.

Tony Maietta:
She couldn't separate her performance from the grief she was feeling over Tracy. And as we said, she's constantly on the verge of tears in this movie. She was so preoccupied with taking care of Tracy and, by the way, watching and making sure her niece was doing a good job, so she was really caretaking him in this movie. And it's a good thing because her character really does nothing in this film. She is reactive. She makes her decision very early in the film, and then all she has to do with everybody else is try to talk to Tracy and try to talk to Sidney Poitier and react to people or be compassionate or be supportive. So there's not a lot for her to play. She's very passive, which is a very antithetical to what we think of when we think of Katharine Hepburn.

Tony Maietta:
But this is who Hepburn was with Tracy. She still has some wonderful scenes, but her decision to accept the film, to accept this marriage and then be happy, just kind of leaves her spending the rest of the film doing nothing but fretting and listening and crying. I mean, that's really all there is to this performance. However, she did Indeed, win the best actress Oscar. Now, I just want to talk about who some of her. Who some of her who are co nominees were because this is important, because Katharine Hepburn won against four very, very capable actresses, two of which give performances which are now iconic. Okay, you don't think of Hepburn as iconic in Guess who's Coming to Dinner, but you do think of Ann Bancroft as, yes, Mrs. Robinson as iconic in the Graduate.

Tony Maietta:
You do think of Faye Dunaway as iconic as Bonnie in Bonnie and Clyde. We also had that other Hepburn, Audrey, nominated for Wait until Dark. And we had the great British actress Edith Evans in the Whisperers. This Oscar ceremony was originally scheduled for Monday, April 8, 1968. Martin Luther King was assassinated on April 4. Okay. And his funeral was scheduled for April 9. So at first, Hollywood, as Hollywood is, does, did nothing.

Tony Maietta:
They didn't. They didn't. Oh, okay, we're still gonna have the Oscar ceremony. And then one by one, everybody started to drop out saying, I'm not going to be there before. If you have the ceremony before his funeral, I'm not going to be there. What's to celebrate? This man has been killed. This great man has been killed. One by one by one, they dropped out.

Tony Maietta:
Until finally the Academy, good old Academy, was forced to say, okay, okay, we'll reschedule for Wednesday, April 9th. So they made it the day after the funeral so they could make sure that Sidney Poitier would be there, that Paul Newman would be there, that Sammy Davis Jr. Would be there. So anyway, it was still a noticeably subdued evening. Rod Steiger won for in the Heat of the Night as best actor and Hepburn won her first Oscar since Morning Glory. And Hepburn always said that that Oscar she won was just basically sentiment for how she got Spencer Tracy through this film and sentiment for the fact that she hadn't won in 34 years. She never thought much of this Oscar. She never thought much of any Oscar publicly.

Tony Maietta:
She never went to a single award ceremony that she won or was nominated. And she later said, somewhat oddly, that she was happy that the Good Wife, our most important and unsung heroine, was making a comeback. Now it's like, Kate, when were you a wife? You're Katharine Eppert. You were married for about 30 minutes in the 30s, and then you didn't even live with the guy. But she's, you know, that's Katharine Hepburn. She's always coming at you from another direction. But she did not feel she deserved this. This performance was Oscar worthy.

Tony Maietta:
I think most everybody now certainly doesn't feel it's Oscar worthy. But, you know, that's what happened. The sentiment took her the Oscar and she won her second Oscar. How do you feel about all that, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Boy, that's a tough one, because, you know, yeah, her character didn't do a lot, but she did a lot. I mean, she. She was always reactive, certainly, but sometimes that's our role in life or certainly times in our life. And I thought she did it. I thought she did it beautifully. I don't know if I. I'm not

Tony Maietta:
saying it wasn't a beautiful performance. I'm not saying that at all.

Brad Shreve:
No, no. I'm thinking it is Oscar worthy now. Is it Oscar worthy, given the others that were up for it? I mean, that's a toughie. I can see. Yeah, yeah.

Tony Maietta:
This is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. I think if the Academy had a crystal ball and they could see that she would win another Oscar the following year for the Line in Winter, they would have maybe thought twice because. But they didn't. They didn't. It's a beautiful performance. I'm not saying it's not, but when you put it up against Mrs. Robinson and Bancroft in the Graduate, Faye Dunaway and Bonnie and Clyde, it's kind of hard to justify, particularly since Hepburn.

Tony Maietta:
How many times should Hepburn have won before? I mean, I'm thinking of the Philadelphia Story. I'm thinking about Summertime, Good God, Long Day's Journey in Tonight. Incredible performances, and she didn't. So it's one of those instances where the Academy might have been making up for lost time. They also might have been giving her a vote of thanks for shepherding Spencer Tracy through this film. But I'll tell you, Hepburn was pissed off that Tracy did not win, even though he had passed away. She was pissed off he didn't win for Best Actor for this film so publicly she wasn't. But she was privately very, very angry that he didn't win.

Brad Shreve:
And that's something that I'm sitting here thinking as you're talking about. Basically, she won based on sentiment. I'm thinking if it was all based on sentiment that year, or at least a big part of it was sentiment, I would have thought he would have won posthumously. I want to say posthumously, because it's spelled. I'm not even going to try and

Tony Maietta:
say it again before Heath Ledger. That only happened one other time that an actor won a posthumous Oscar. So it didn't happen a lot. The Academy doesn't want to do that. They don't necessarily want to give someone if he was still alive, who knows? All bets are off. Look at Henry Fonda on Golden Pond. I mean, that's a perfect example. And another Katharine Hepburn Oscar, by the way, for On Golden Pond.

Tony Maietta:
But they felt Tracy's gone. The best way to honor Tracy. And this is in Hepburn's mind. And this is how she spun it. The spin master Katharine Hepburn with the rest of her life. That's how she spun it. That. That Oscar for Guess who's Coming to Dinner was in honor of their career together and their love for them as Tracy.

Tony Maietta:
And. And a half burn. And that's the way it works. That was a lot, Brad. We talked a lot about this film. That was a whole lot. A whole lot. Is there anything else we want to say to the people about the podcast before we wrap up this baby? Because I got dinner waiting for me, and nobody's coming but me.

Tony Maietta:
Guess who? Nobody.

Brad Shreve:
You are nine hours behind, and it's way past my bedtime, so. No, I. I think I've said it all. Well, I could say more. But we won't.

Tony Maietta:
Well, Brad, I guess I just have one more thing left to say. But I don't want you to get permanently lost. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I'm tempted to put the sound effect of a car driving off at that moment.

Tony Maietta:
Don't speak. Go.

Brad Shreve:
I'll just say no, let's say goodbye.

Tony Maietta:
Goodbye, everybody.