Tony Maietta:
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just the guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

Tony Maietta:
Hey, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, sir?

Tony Maietta:
I need you to do me a favor. I need you to tell me when I'm talking too fast. Can you do that? Can you tell me when I talk too fast? Because I've gotten some feedback that I talk too fast, and it's just because I'm excited and I talk too fast. So would you promise to do me a favor and tell me when I talk too fast?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. You're talking too fast right now.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that's because I'm excited.

Brad Shreve:
It makes me happy that you're looking at me and you're excited.

Tony Maietta:
I'm not looking at you. I'm excited. All right, I'm gonna slow down. I'm gonna take a breath, because I don't want to talk too fast. And I did get a little feedback that I talk too fast, but it's just because I get excited and I get carried away. So I'm gonna. I don't think it'll be a problem on this show, although I am very excited for two reasons. The first reason is, is because we're talking about.

Tony Maietta:
And I always say, one of my favorite movies. I'm so sick of saying that, but it's. I'm going to say it anyway. One of my favorite movies, a beautiful film, a film which had a profound impact on me as a young actor and a young person. And it's the Trip to Bountiful from 1985 Island Pictures, starring the incomparable Miss Geraldine Page. And the second reason I'm so excited is because we have a incredibly special guest joining us. Our first one this season, and we're starting at the top. Should I introduce our guest, Brad and get him in here?

Brad Shreve:
Let me introduce the guest because I have a thing or two to say about this individual.

Tony Maietta:
Well, before you do, I just want to give a little. I just want to say a little something here about our guest, because he is not only an actor, a writer, a producer, he does it all. A director of such incredible pieces of work as Sordid Lives. He just wrote a new play called the Recipe Box, which had its premiere in Texas. He's originally from southern Texas. It's one of the reasons why we wanted him on the show. And also because he and I have a. Have a history with this film, which I hope we'll talk about.

Tony Maietta:
He also is the writer, director, producer of Belous for Willowdeen, Southern Baptist Sissies, A Very Sordid Wedding. I mean, that's the movie. You get kind of like a theme here with his work. So I'm Gonna hand it over to you, Brad, to bring him in and introduce our wonderful guest.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I have a bone to pick with our guest. Because of our guest, I put up with Tony week after week after week to do this damn podcast. Actually, I'm quite grateful. The background is on my old podcast that I had. This individual was a guest on my show. Our guest is the wonderful Del Shores, who I'm actually extremely grateful for introducing me to. Tony. Del was a guest on my old show, and when we were done, he goes, you know, I know this guy who might be good on the show.

Brad Shreve:
And so I had this guy named Tony Maietta on the show. And I was kind of. After years of doing interviews, I was kind of done. I love him, but they're tiring. And I said, hey, Tony, let's do a show together. And here we are today. So thank you, Del.

Tony Maietta:
Welcome to the podcast, Del.

Del Shores:
Thanks for having me. And this is. This is the one I wanted to do. So I love this movie so much and I love the play. So here we are.

Brad Shreve:
It's wonderful to have you. And I kept thinking of you throughout this film because of all the spirituals that were being sung. And I thought, this reminds me of another movie.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's too early for him singing right now, Brad. But honestly, once gave me a cup

Del Shores:
with that on it. I think it had to do with me texting him too early in the morning.

Tony Maietta:
Too early for him singing. No, it's just because we bonded over this film, the Fabulous the Trip to Bountiful. And yes, Brad is absolutely right. Back when Del and I were dating, he introduced me to Brad, and so he's responsible for this whole podcast. So I don't know whether to hug you or slap you, but thank you so much. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. Delay. And one of the reasons why I wanted to do this with you again, because it's such a beautiful movie, but it's because you're from the south and because so many of your.

Tony Maietta:
So many of the things you've written and produced and directed, like Daddy's Dying, who's Got the Will? The film which you produced and wrote take place in the South. What. What is it about the south and these women and that we find so intriguing and galvanizing, especially with this film, which. What do you think?

Del Shores:
Well, I think they're just. For me, this character, she's just the salt of the earth. She's the kind of grandmother that I grew up with in Winters, Texas, where sordid lives is set. And I was hugely influenced by Horton Foote. He would be appalled to think that I was influenced by him. But I love his. Just the simplicity. Simplicity of his dialogue and the.

Del Shores:
In the complexity of his characters because, you know, they. It looks very simple. I was just right before we got on here, I started reading some of the IMDb reviews from users, and it's amazing how many truly love this movie. And then some of them, oh, it's so slow. And this and this and this. And I'm like, you just don't get it. But I love those characters. I just love how real they are.

Tony Maietta:
I was just gonna say that Carolyn Glynn, who plays Jessie May in this film as a character in this film, said, it's all about the subtext with Horton Foote. Horton Foote is the author of the play the Trip to Bountiful and also the screenplay of the Trip to Bountiful, the film. He also wrote Tender Mercies and the screenplay and the screenplay for To Kill a Mockingbird. So this is a venerated Southern writer. Like our guest is a venerated Southern

Del Shores:
writer, but with more Academy Award nominations.

Brad Shreve:
And those that complained about how slow it is are the ones that are addicted to Marvel movies that Tony hates so much.

Del Shores:
Me too.

Tony Maietta:
So, yeah, so we're talking about the film the Trip to Bountiful from 1985, starring Ms. Geraldine Page. And this is our. I don't know if you knew this, Del, but this is our. Brad and I are doing like a Best Actress month. Ish. Give or take a week or two. So we're.

Tony Maietta:
This is. This is one of our Best Actress entries because she did. After eight freaking Oscar nominations, Geraldine Page finally won an Oscar for this performance in 1985, which we'll get to that at the end. And the nominees and how I feel about her winning this award. But I think this film really is. And you said a little bit, Del, when we first started talking, it really is about the character of Carrie Watts. It's. This movie is basically this character, this Southern woman.

Tony Maietta:
And what is it about Southern women? What is it about Southern women which make them so. I don't know. It's so interesting, so complex.

Del Shores:
They're colorful. They're colorful. It's like why I gravitated to write about my aunts and my mother and I had to work a little bit harder writing about men because those Texas women and, you know, and Horton Foote never ventured outside much of a territory. He wrote hundreds of plays, I believe, and it was all around Harrison and where he grew up. And so he wrote what he knew, and he knew these women so very well. And this journey that she takes. And I don't know, you know, we talked about it being a play, and I. Because I have done a few plays and several that have been adapted to film this really, you know, he got.

Del Shores:
I believe he got an Oscar nomination for best adaptation. Am I right?

Tony Maietta:
He did. He did.

Del Shores:
It really wasn't much of an adaptation. You can literally, you can take this playbook play was written in 1953, 73 years ago, adapted 30, 32 years later. I watched it yesterday, which was probably the 10th time I've watched this film. And it still holds up. The character still holds up.

Tony Maietta:
No, absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing about the play, which actually was started as a television play, it was on TV on the. I think it was the Filco Playhouse with Lillian Gish as Kerry Watts. I've seen this. I've seen productions of this many times. I saw the most recent one with Cecily Tyson, and she won an Oscar. She didn't win an Oscar.

Tony Maietta:
She won a Tony Award.

Del Shores:
She also won an Emmy. Didn't.

Tony Maietta:
She won a Tony Award as well. And I. Yeah, yeah. People who play this part win awards. I mean, they do. Paige won the Oscar. Cicely Tyson won a Tony Award. They do, because it's such a rich, rich character.

Tony Maietta:
It's also Foote's writing. It's the mystique, the magic of Bountiful. You say the trip to Bountiful. What is Bountiful? Well, we find out. Of course, it's her hometown, but it's that mystique of the south, the magic of the. I mean, this play wouldn't be nearly. Nearly as affecting if she was from Terry Haute or if it was the trip to. The trip to Scranton.

Tony Maietta:
You know, I mean, there's nothing wonderful funny about that. I think that's what gives this film and the play its magic, is the fact that it's set in this kind of almost pastel impressionistic world of bountiful. Or in her mind, at least in her mind, that's the way it is.

Del Shores:
And Bountiful is so misleading because, you know, it's just basically nothing. When she gets there, the crops are gone, the houses are gone. It's just those dusty old towns in Texas that are all but gone. And it's so sad, and yet it gives her so much joy. She feels like she can die in peace now because she went back. And there's that scene. Oh, my God, that scene where she Sits on the ground and then just

Tony Maietta:
puts her hands in the dirt. Well, her hands feel the need of dirt. Her hands feel the need of it.

Del Shores:
And you said something about Carlin Glenn, who I actually saw on Broadway as Ms. Mona in Best of House in Texas.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Del Shores:
And she. She's Mary Stuart Masterson's mother. And Peter Masterson, who directed this, her dad. And they filmed this in Waxahachie, Texas, which was very close. We used so much of the crew from this film on Daddy's Dying. Who's Got the Will was our line producer. He was their line producer. Sissy Spacek's brother was one of the producers.

Del Shores:
I saw it on Wilshire at one of those theaters when it first opened, and it was just. I was just sobbing.

Tony Maietta:
I was magical. Brad, why don't you. Can you tell us a little bit about what this Trip to Bountiful is about? The story of the. Of the film?

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. Before I do that, you know, each week I do a little Tony, little tease with Tony. I don't want him to know how I felt about the film. And I, you know, I get a lot of feedback that, oh, Brad hates all the good films. That is so not true. Go back and listen the old episodes. So I'm not going to tease Tony this time. I cried.

Brad Shreve:
I felt joy. This is a beautiful film. Beautiful. There were moments I hated watching it because I hurt the. There were moments I just was so happy that I watched it. But this film, as you said, was based on the play and very simple synopsis. An elderly woman, she escapes her life in Houston to visit her long abandoned hometown one last time. And she lives with her son and somewhat abusive wife.

Brad Shreve:
And controlling wife is a better word to use. And along the way, she forms a brief but meaningful friendship, which I thought was too brief.

Tony Maietta:
Sweet.

Brad Shreve:
It was still touching. And she ultimately confronts the passage of time, and that's really what it comes down to. And her home wasn't even what she expected to be, and it still meant everything to her.

Tony Maietta:
So I want to give a little background. I'm not going to do a lot. I always say that. I'm going to give a little background of how this all came about, because it really is interesting because like you said, Del, this play was written in 53. And I believe that Horton Foote was incredibly protective of. Of it. He did not. It had the.

Tony Maietta:
It had. It was always on stage. You know, it came back. It was, as I said, it was a Lillian Gish, originally with Eva Marie Saint in the original Broadway production. I Think Lois Smith later did a production of it on Broadway, but it never left the boards. But the film version took many, many years, and it all kind of started. Did you know this, Del? It started with Carolyn Glynn and her husband, Peter Masterson.

Del Shores:
No, I did not know. No.

Tony Maietta:
They were working with Redford in Sundance. And he said, and Peter, is there any project that speaks to you? And they thought of this play, but they said, horton Foote holds this so tight, it'll never happen. And I guess it was because he felt obligated to Lillian Gish. But, I mean, at this time, Lillian Gish was a little too old to do it. And they convinced Horton to do it. And they said. And Horton said, I know who I want to play this part. I know who I want to do this.

Tony Maietta:
And of course, it was none other than Ms. Geraldine Page to do it. And so he. He said that he sent the script to Geraldine Page and he got a note back that said, thank you for my Christmas present. Isn't that great? Isn't that sweet?

Del Shores:
Oh, my God, yes.

Tony Maietta:
And what Paige responded to was the fact. And she said this. She said, this is not the story of a little old lady. This is a woman who wants her own way. She is stubborn, she is willful. She is headstrong. And I think that's one thing that people mistake about this play is. I think it's.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, it's a story about the sweet little old lady who's going to go to her home before she dies. And that ain't it at all. She is conniving. She is funny, she is fierce. She's, as I said, headstrong and willful.

Del Shores:
Gross. Temper tantrums. Those that. At the very beginning with that recipe, plotting up that recipe and not work.

Tony Maietta:
Pick it up yourself.

Del Shores:
Oh, Ludy, don't make me. She said, go apologize.

Tony Maietta:
That's what makes her performance so rich. She hits every single one of those.

Brad Shreve:
If they think it was about a little old lady, they weren't paying attention.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And. Well, and in fairness, too, Geraldine Page is not a little old lady. I mean, she was a big woman, but Cicely Tyson and Lillian Gish were kind of little old ladies. I mean, they were small, diminutive, frail. But the character's not. The character is so galvanizing, so strong. And she's a real.

Tony Maietta:
She's a real pill, as my grandmother would say. And I think that's one of the. Actually, she's like. She is. She's like a big child. And don't you think that's what makes Paige's performance so rich is that she dives into that headfirst.

Del Shores:
Yeah. And you root for her immediately. You root for her in that, in that, you know, cooped up in that apartment. And you know, you were talking earlier about Carlin Glynn and the subtext of it and, and scratching deeper into those characters. And you really look at her character who was full of pretension. She wanted just to be like the society people of Houston and yet her husband was a bit of a failure. You know, he had been sick for two years and they went through their savings and they're living in this tiny little apartment. But I don't know if you remember this moment where she's looking at those clothes with her friend.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, of course.

Del Shores:
She looks at the price. Price and then she just puts it down.

Tony Maietta:
No, absolutely.

Del Shores:
Just the. And she is, she's not a nice woman. She's just awful.

Tony Maietta:
I think it's important too to point out that I don't think Jessie May is a villain. Think about it. Jessie May is married to. Geraldine Page, plays Carrie Watts. Mrs. Carrie Watts and her son, played by John Hurd. His name is Ludy. And Carolyn Glenn is the.

Tony Maietta:
Is his wife, Jessie May. And they've been living together in this two room apartment for almost 20 years on top of each other. So can you imagine that? I mean, here, not only is your life not turning out the way you want it to with your husband who has health problems, you don't have kids, so you're not, you know, you're living in two rooms, but you've got this old cantankerous, willful woman living with you. I think I'd be a little. She's couching it. I'd be a little bitchy too. I think that's so important about Jessie

Del Shores:
maybe to realize that she's so petulant that just because, you know, back to the recipe where she, she just put it in her drawer and she was so mad that she got in that drawer.

Tony Maietta:
I think too, that what. I think it's important that you know, yes, this story is about a woman who just wants to go back to her home before she dies. But there's so many, you know, there's so many themes in this movie and I would love to get your take on this, both of you, either one of you. You know, it's not only a story about going home and about going back to yourself and family, but it's also about, you know, thwarted dreams and accepting reality. Kerry Watts has to accept the reality that bountiful, for all intents and purposes, is gone. It's a memory. Ludy and Jesse may have to accept the reality of their lives of being childless, of being not exactly with money. What do you.

Tony Maietta:
What do you think about that? What do you think about some of the themes of this movie, either one of you?

Del Shores:
I love so many of the themes of this. Back to what the first thing that you said about failure, about lost dreams. And we talked about Tony when we were together, how we had both done the same monologue. And I did an acting class in Joan Darling's class, and I asked her if she had any notes for me. And she said, yes, live some life and come back in 20 years. And I love that note so much because it's like, I've got the play here, by the way, like I said, the reason. I didn't mean to disrespect him about his adaptation. But it is verbatim.

Del Shores:
It's verbatim the way that when she rode on the bus, there was just a slight blackout, and they put a bus seat for that whole ride in the middle of the stage and lit it. It was so simple the way they did that. But I loved it when he was talking about his friend who had the kids, and each one of them had their duties, and one of them was three years old, and she sat the table and he talks about. He goes, oh, Mama, I haven't made any kind of life for you, for either one of you. And I try so hard. I try so hard. And then he says, oh, mama, I do remember I lied to you. I remember so much about this house, the life here.

Del Shores:
So back to when it was bountiful, when there was happiness there. You know, the night you woke me up and dressed me and took me for a walk, there was a full moon. It's just beautifully drawn. And that is such a heartbreaking moment in the film because we've all had those moments where we go, I could have done more with my life.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, God. Yeah.

Del Shores:
And then go back to the theme with her. She lost two children there, and then she lost the love of her life, that hole which. Oh, her dad and his dad didn't speak.

Tony Maietta:
John Ray Murray.

Del Shores:
Yes. And he walked a mile out of

Tony Maietta:
his way every time to say hi to me.

Del Shores:
Yeah, yeah.

Tony Maietta:
No, he didn't love anybody. Didn't love her. Yeah. It's amazing, you know, that the kernel of that. That story was the Colonel, this whole play. Horton Foote said that he's based it on an aunt of his who fell in love with a cousin and the family disapproved. And so he took that kernel and created this piece of work.

Brad Shreve:
What really surprised me about this film is I originally saw her as a tragic character that was. I watched this probably 30 years ago. I debate when it started. I'm like, I don't know if I saw this movie before. And then as it progressed, I was remembering bits and pieces. So thank you guys for suggesting this film. I really enjoyed it. So as it came on, I thought, oh, she's a tragic character.

Brad Shreve:
She's in this horrible situation. And you know, the whole thing at the train station, when they told her there was no train going to Bountiful. And I said, she's going to get to the town and it's going to be tragic. And it really wasn't. She was confused. Like when they told her the train didn't go to Bountiful. But even at the beginning, she was headstrong. This is going to be my way.

Brad Shreve:
She toyed around with her daughter in law and then she went and she did it. And as she hit obstacles, she just kept going and going.

Del Shores:
And then when she got there, I love that she always found a solution. She figured it out.

Tony Maietta:
The Lord was just with her today.

Del Shores:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And I thought, okay, she's gonna get the Bountiful and she's gonna see it's gone and it's gonna be horrible and tragic.

Del Shores:
Well, then she. But she had that big meltdown. She did have that meltdown when she didn't think the sheriff was gonna take her. Now there. There is a little difference in the place. And I'm sorry to be such a. You know, I teach playwriting every year and I always recommend this play and there's just a slight difference because it's structured in three acts and in the play she has that fit. And then there's a blackout when she sort of collapses because she says, you have to take me to Bountiful or I need to get to Bountiful.

Del Shores:
And then the very next scene, they're there. So he doesn't go away, he doesn't come back and then change his mind. Which I loved. I loved that in the film. I thought he built that really, really beautifully.

Brad Shreve:
That was more tragedy about her thinking that she'd gone that whole way and it was ending. She didn't get it. But once she actually got there and she saw it all, she was distraught. And then she enjoyed her memories and it was what it was and she accepted it.

Del Shores:
That's where I thought and they talked about birds. Yeah, that amazing scene about birds.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Oh, that's such a beautiful scene. So what happens in the movie is, is that she finds her way back to Bountiful. First she goes to a train station and she's told no trains go there. And then she goes to the bus station and she's able to get on the bus and take the bus to Harrison. Because Bountiful is between Harrison and Cotton. No trains go there. I thought it was interesting that she said she's done this before, yet.

Tony Maietta:
She. And she. So she's been told many times that no trains go to Bountiful, yet she goes back to the train station and every time to get on the train. Did you notice that?

Del Shores:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
I was like, oh, that threw me. I thought, well, maybe, you know, she is elderly. Perhaps that's her mind. Yeah, she's not thinking that. So she does get home.

Del Shores:
That check was in her bosom.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, her government check was, you give me that government check. She gets back to Bountiful. And Bountiful is a ghost town, literally. There's nothing there. But she accepts it. She just wants to get home and she accepts. She's like, I'm willing. I'm willing to take less.

Tony Maietta:
I didn't think I was going to be able to before, but I'm willing to accept it. And that's what's so beautiful. She's like, I just want this one thing, and then I can. I can let go.

Del Shores:
I know she was planning to move there. I mean, she had this whole plan that she needed to get, you know, her friend that. That had died two days before that. They buried her.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, yes.

Del Shores:
You know, it was like two days ago. Just two days ago. She was just missing everything.

Tony Maietta:
She died. Yeah. The day, like, a couple days before she got there. And that's who she was gonna live with.

Brad Shreve:
All she wanted was a cot.

Del Shores:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
And the help of her government check. But, you know, Horton Foote said that Edna Ferber, you know, no slouch as a writer. Edna Ferber told him the true happy ending of this play would be for her to die in Bountiful when she got there. Did you know that?

Del Shores:
I did not.

Tony Maietta:
Isn't that amazing?

Del Shores:
That would have been interesting.

Tony Maietta:
But the ending, I think, is.

Brad Shreve:
See, and I disagree because I kind of kept waiting for that to happen. And I kind of feel like that would be. I felt like it was the expectation. So I was glad that didn't happen.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I think that would have been too pat.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, exactly.

Tony Maietta:
The more realistic ending is that she now has to face the rest of her life with Jessie Mae and with Ludy in those two rooms. But it's okay because she says in the movie, I had my trip. She's okay, she had her trip.

Del Shores:
But you know how the Tony and Brad, you know how the play ends? Back to that scene is with the dirt. She literally drops in the play and grabs the dirt and then she turns back to the house and says goodbye, bountiful goodbye. And that's the end of the play.

Tony Maietta:
So. Yes. So, I mean, I want to talk about Geraldine Page, obviously, but the way Geraldine Page says goodbye, bountiful goodbye, it's just. And then she gets in the car and there's just that one shot of her in her eyes and. And you know, she's not. Look, she doesn't look around to say goodbye to it. You notice she looks straight ahead because she knows this is the last time she's gonna see her home. We've all.

Tony Maietta:
I think we've all. I don't know, I should speak about me. I should make I statements. When you realize this is the last time I'm gonna see something or this is the last time I'm going to experience something. There's that acceptance that she has in the end. And you feel that. You feel the pain of that reality, but you also see the resignation in her eyes. And.

Tony Maietta:
And I love the fact that she doesn't turn around to get one last look. She looks straight ahead because she knows this is my life now. I can't come back here. It's beautiful.

Del Shores:
And of course it doesn't hurt that, you know, we see the blue bonnets and the passing by that we saw at the beginning of the film. It's Cynthia Claussen's amazing voice singing softly and tenderly starts saying, come home, come

Tony Maietta:
home as the hymns.

Del Shores:
It's just a gut wrencher of a movie. It just kills me.

Tony Maietta:
Did you cry, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
I did not. Sobbing, but tears and then they would go away. You know, it was that kind of movie. It just kind of my mood wavered a lot throughout the film. It was all. Even the tears were. Were wonderful.

Del Shores:
Speaking of tears, there's one moment in the film that I don't love and please, performance wise, not her. But there is, if you watch it again, watch Rebecca De Mornay on the bus when she cries about her husband. Yeah, they're dry tears. They're not one thing authentic about it. And I'm stunned that they couldn't at least give her a little blow in the eyes to give her some tears.

Tony Maietta:
Rebecca De Mornay was an interesting choice. I think this was not once long after the Hand that Robbed the Cradle. And you know, so this was kind of like a change of pace for her. And she was, she was pretty hot at this time. But yeah, I'm always like, she's okay,

Del Shores:
she's okay, she's fine, she's fine. That role could, I mean, if you think of from the Help, Jessica Chastain.

Tony Maietta:
Oh yeah.

Del Shores:
Think about if Jessica Chastain had been right there for that role, that would have been the kind of actor.

Tony Maietta:
Well, and I can imagine even, even Marie Saint who played it with Lilly English. And I'm sure she was, she was wonderful. But it's fine.

Brad Shreve:
I agree Rebecca De Mornay did not knock it out of the park. But I was actually. I'm always very happy when actors get to do something. I mean, she forgot Risky Business and the Hand Rocks the Cradle and you know, runs one of a Train. I mean she's. And then to finally do a film like this, that, that endears me to her.

Del Shores:
They could have done better. But, but, but yes, you are right.

Brad Shreve:
From that standpoint, I'm happy for her, for the production. You're a whole.

Del Shores:
You're absolutely in that. I loved, I mean I loved most of her performance. I really, really did. And I thought it was simple. And Peter Masterson, I mean, you know, I don't know how old Mary Stewart was at this point in her life, but boy, you think about her or. Mary Louise Parker would have been brilliant in this film.

Tony Maietta:
No, she would. I love Mary Louise Parker. She would have been great.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, there's, there's tons of. That would have been better. I don't.

Tony Maietta:
There's lots of Mary Louise's who would have been. But, but anyway, I mean, can you imagine though, you're told that you're gonna be sharing a screen with Geraldine Page. I mean, so I mean, gotta give her credit. I mean she stepped up and she did a. She did a good job. But I mean really, who's looking at her? I'm watching Geraldine Page. When Geraldine Page cries, the character cries and how she hides her face when she's crying. Or what I love about what Geraldine Page.

Tony Maietta:
You can see the young Kerry Watts in Geraldine Page. I mean, Geraldine Page, I wanna point out, was only 660 when she made this film. So she was not old, although she died two years later. She was only 60. I mean, the way they dress her, the way they costume her. But you can see the glimpses of the young Carrie Watts. You can see how flirtatious she is. I love when she flirts with.

Tony Maietta:
She's flirting with the guy at the bus station with her tickets. He's. I forget my head if it wasn't on my neck. And she takes her ticket and she kind of flips it, and he's like, get out of here, old lady.

Del Shores:
He's kind of mean to her.

Tony Maietta:
He's. He is mean to her. She's just. She. She'll do every trick she can to get what she wants. And. And that's what I love about her.

Brad Shreve:
He was mean to her, but then he became endeared to her. He had a really nice smile when she walked away.

Del Shores:
At the next strange station. One of my friends, Harvey Lewis, who I met years later, he's the one who actually got me into looping with Barbara Harris. He said he's got a little role in this. So I emailed him this morning and told him that I had watched him yesterday, and he told me he was in Dallas and he had a friend who said, hey, you want to be in this movie? They knew his work, and he didn't

Tony Maietta:
even audition filmed in Dallas. Do you know who else? Who else had small, tiny bit parts in this movie? In the train, in the bus station sequence, right behind Geraldine Page, Those two guys, the twins, they were Geraldine Page's children. That's Tony Torn and John Torn. When he has one line. I don't know which. I don't know which Torn child it was that had the one line. But, yeah, Tony Torn and John Torn. So she had her two kids with Rip Torn, with the actor Rip Torn.

Del Shores:
Well, you know, when I did Daddy's Dying, Amy Wright was Lurleen, who was married to Rip Torn at the time. You know, that whole crazy story. And. And his daughter. And Rip was on the set the whole time catching fish. An odd man.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I want to talk about. Since we've been talking around it, I want to talk about Paige, as we said before, because to me personally, this film is Geraldine Page. I saw this film, and then I saw her final stage performance in blithe spirit in 1987, and it totally. And I've said this to you before, Dell, and I think I might have said it on the podcast. I was a young actor. I was still in school, and seeing her performance in this completely changed the way I looked at acting completely. I mean, I'd gone through the whole process. I was about to begin my career as an actor, and I went.

Tony Maietta:
Now it's like Meryl Streep. And death becomes now a warning. Now I'm getting this lesson because

Brad Shreve:
what

Tony Maietta:
I love about Geraldine Pages in this film is. And this is, you know, this is great acting. Everything is so specific. There is not one generalization this woman makes. Every memory she has, everything she talks about, every song she sings, every hymn she sings, every story she tells is so specific to. In her memory. You know, she's looking, she's thinking about a specific memory in her mind. And that's brilliant acting.

Tony Maietta:
That's what acting's all about.

Del Shores:
Everybody she talks about, there's a different opinion about it.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, yes.

Del Shores:
It's like my daughter in law, Jessie May, Jesse.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, you know who Jesse May is.

Del Shores:
Yeah, you know, Exactly. Leslie Jordan used to quote her all the time when she said, my daughter in law, Jesse Maes, hates me.

Tony Maietta:
Well, for example, there is a scene in the train. In the train deep once she's gotten to Harrison and she's talking about. She's talking with the guy who's. Who's at the. They're waiting for her purse to be brought back to her and she's having a conversation. And this to me is. Is the proof in the pudding. She says the line that's so.

Tony Maietta:
That's so three times in three different ways. And it is specific each time she says it. And that is like. That's to me, I love when actors do stuff like that because you could think it's technical and it is a technical thing, but the fact that she gives three different interpretations of this single line and she says it three times, it just gives me goosebumps when I see it. Because she's remembering. She's so specific about every single reply. And that's, you know, that's great acting. That's great acting.

Del Shores:
I found it. It says, which Ewing was that? George White Ewing. He's dead. Is that so? Been dead for 12 years. Is that so?

Tony Maietta:
There's one more.

Del Shores:
Is that he said he left quite a bit of money, but his son took over his. His store and lost it. Drank. And she goes, is that so? One thing I can say about my boy, I like it. I like this line. The ticket man goes, I've got one boy that drinks and one that doesn't. I can't understand it. I raised them both the same way.

Del Shores:
She's. And then when he says, a friend of mine has a girl that drinks, I think there's nothing sadder in the whole wide world.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, it's just in it though. In it though. No, it's. It's Horton Foot. I mean, it's, you know, incredible.

Brad Shreve:
What I noticed towards the end of the film, I think John Hurd was great. I think Carling Glenn was great. Rebecca De Mornay, you know, more than anything else, she had a good look for the era. But what I noticed each time when they were gone, I almost forgot about them because I was so engrossed in her. She just, despite her great cast with her, it was a one woman show to me.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it is, it is.

Del Shores:
And Brad, one of the. I was telling Tony when you were getting back on, there's a. There's a few flaws in the movie. It's not a perfect film when it comes to technical aspects of it. And one of them is because of her genius, she was not capable of understanding continuity. So if you really look at the film from that point of view, there's the scene where she's almost fainting and gets the glass of water at the very beginning. She starts with the glass in one hand, they cut to the close up. It's in the other hand.

Del Shores:
Her mannerisms are so organic and authentic that her mind is racing and her mind can't connect with that part of it, you know, and that's that. I think that's a problem sometimes with it is with film because you can't. On stage you can do whatever the fuck you want, but in film, you

Tony Maietta:
know, you have to match.

Del Shores:
You just have to live with it.

Tony Maietta:
That's one of the differences between film acting and theater acting is the fact. And she was a theater actress. I mean, for people who don't know, I don't think there's an exaggeration to say. She's probably one of the greatest two actors to come out of the Actor's Studio. Kim Sand Lee perhaps, being the other one. She's mythic. She was a mythic. She was a goddess.

Tony Maietta:
In fact, when we get to the Oscars, I'm going to say what Ev Murray Abraham said about her. Yeah. It drove everybody crazy because she had no. Here's the thing about Paige was she was so immersed in the reality of the character that her mind could not. There was not room in her mind for the technical aspects of acting that was too distracting for her. She couldn't let it in. She was so deeply involved in the reality of Carrie Watts, so much so that she never did anything twice. And she couldn't, you know, her mind wouldn't go there.

Tony Maietta:
She didn't allow her mind to absorb the thing that would take her out of the character, take her out of the reality of the situation. Am I getting really technical about.

Del Shores:
But I wanted to add. Wonder is because if you watch the film. When you watch the film, and if you're listening and you haven't watched it, you must watch it. But notice how sometimes there are no cuts for a very long time. They say on her. And I think some of that is the continuity issue. And, you know, they don't. You back and forth.

Del Shores:
There's not a back and forth with she and De Mornay on that bus bench. It just stays on her.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Del Shores:
With Mornay sort of in the background.

Tony Maietta:
And it's easier in movies like this because she is the star. But when she's a supporting player and she's doing stuff like this, like in. I love her in Pete and Tilly. She's hysterically funny in Pete and Tilly. She's the best thing in Pete and Tilly as far as I'm concerned. But can you imagine how frustrating that is for a director? Because she would never do the same thing twice. So there was no way to match shots. So there are a lot of.

Tony Maietta:
They're not really jump cuts, but they look like jump cuts. Because she just. She wouldn't. As I said, she would not suspend her disbelief in the character long enough to realize. To have that technical knowledge of what was going on.

Del Shores:
It's a problem with certain actors. There's. There is one big, bad jump, jump cut in that if you. In the very last act of it, when she does get to bountiful. I don't know if you remember, Brad, when she's talking to the sheriff and they're doing the bird scene. And then she gets up and she stands by the window. And then for some reason, it just jumps to her sitting on the horse.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Yes, yes.

Del Shores:
It's like, what?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. No, it's true. It's true. That's it. I mean, you know, she wouldn't. She wouldn't suspend her disbelief to the point where, you know, she was playing the role as it happened every single time, which is a special kind of genius. Maybe a special kind of madness. I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
Who cares? It's Geraldine Payne.

Del Shores:
I kept thinking, didn't they have a shot of just the field or something that they could have cut to that would have given her time to walk back to the.

Tony Maietta:
But, you know, somebody said that she would come to the set. No big surprise. Completely totally unadorned, like a blank page. Because she was going to then paint on. She's the artist. She's going to then Paint on the character of Carrie Watts. So when I met Geraldine Page, that was. She was.

Tony Maietta:
You met her? I met her, yeah. There's a story. So the stringy. She had long, long, stringy hair. She was totally, unbelievably, unglamorous. You know, you would not have rec. You would have thought she was a bag woman if you saw her on the street. But when she would come to the set, no makeup, nothing, because then she would become Kerry Watts with the wig, and I think she had a little bit of a fat suit when she did this.

Tony Maietta:
And she became. Because she was, in essence, living the reality of the character moment by moment by moment. It's brilliant. It's brilliant.

Del Shores:
So tell us, how did you. When did you meet her?

Tony Maietta:
Well, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. I'll tell that story. But before we. But, Brad, I believe you want to say some things about the podcast and some. Some things. And then we'll get back. Then we'll get back to Bountiful.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, of course. I'll give the stats, as I always do about the film. But before. Before I do that, we've asked you folks to please text us, and we said we won't be able to text you back. That has changed now. So at the very top of the show notes, we would love to hear from you. Please text us. And we can now respond.

Brad Shreve:
And one little extra step, if you click that link, you have an option now. You can text us or you can leave us a voicemail so we can actually play those on there as well. We've had films that people have requested that we put on. Put on the show. And we love to hear from you. What do you want on here? Within reason. I will tell you, Tony always refuses to do a film he doesn't like, but so take it, Tony, when you do that.

Tony Maietta:
True. We're gonna have a whole month of movies that. Coming up. There's a teaser for you of movies that may not be great movies, but, yeah, there are suggestions or. Anyway, yeah, I interrupted you.

Brad Shreve:
That is true. That is. But I've requested films, and you're like, no. So anyway, movie. As we said, this is a 1985 film. The budget of this was very, very inexpensive. It was $1.8 million. It grossed $6 million.

Brad Shreve:
So it wasn't, you know, obviously, when it made its money back, but, you know, it was up against some heavy hitters this year. Back to The Future made $210 million. Rambo Part 2. I cringe when I hear it. It made 150 million. Then we had Rocky 4. This was a big Sylvester Stallone year. We had the Color Purple.

Brad Shreve:
We had out of Africa. And I was really happy to hear that you mentioned that she was 60 years old when she made this film, because there's a bigger surprise. This was the year that Cocoon came out. Wilfred Brinley was only 49 years old. That's astounding.

Del Shores:
He was only 49 when he did Cocoon.

Brad Shreve:
They did age him up, but he. Yeah, he was 49.

Del Shores:
He lived some life.

Tony Maietta:
He was like Adolphe Manjou and Stage Door. No, it was quite a year. It was quite an incredible year for film, and it was quite an incredible year for best actresses. However, we know that the woman who got the best actress Oscar that year was indeed Ms. Geraldine Page after this was her eighth Oscar nomination. And there's debate that this is. This was. Was this a career achievement Oscar because she'd been nominated seven times before, or was this merited? I gotta tell you, in my opinion and the opinion of the other four actresses who were nominated with her, this was.

Tony Maietta:
And the audience, which rose to its feet when she got. When her name was called, this was not this. This performance was absolutely warranted. In fact, what I said. F. Murray Abraham presented those awards, and he read off the nominees and he said, and the Oscar goes to. Or maybe this is when. And the winner is at this time.

Tony Maietta:
And before he announced the name, he said he was notably moved and he said, I consider this woman to be the greatest actress in the English language. And for a minute, Anne Bancroft goes. Me. He says, geraldine Page. And the other one, Whoopi Goldberg, who was nominated for the Color Purple, jumped up and so did Meryl Streep, who was nominated for out of Africa. Clapping, applauding, screaming. Jessica Lange was nominated for Sweet Dreams also that year. Just absolutely.

Tony Maietta:
This belonged to Geraldine Page.

Del Shores:
It did. It did. I have. I will go further. I think it was. I think it was one of the top five best actress performances ever. I just.

Tony Maietta:
I would believe it.

Del Shores:
I love it so much.

Tony Maietta:
The woman was such. I say this word way too much and I shouldn't because it loses its potency, but this woman was a genius. A genius actress. She really was.

Brad Shreve:
Tony, you're going to tell us about meeting her?

Tony Maietta:
Okay, I hesitate telling this because I don't want to throw my friend under the bus, but I don't think she listens to this, so I'm going to tell it anyway. All right, so, as I said, this movie totally changed the way I thought about acting, and I thought, I have to see Geraldine Page. And as it turns out, just so happens that Geraldine Page was appearing in Blithe Spirit on Broadway. It was her final, final performance. She. She's such an actress. She's such a trouper. She died between a matinee and an evening performance.

Del Shores:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Now, that's an actor for you, folks. That's an actor for you. So anyway, so I got my ass to New York City with my friends. I was in college, and we got tickets, and we saw Blythe Spirit. And if anybody's familiar with Blythe Spirit, it's Noel Coward. So it's the complete opposite of Horton Foote and the trip to Bountiful. It's a British drawing room comedy. And she played Madame Arcadi.

Tony Maietta:
She was brilliant. She was so funny. And so we waited afterwards, as we always did, for the actors to come out and the other people who were in it. Blythe Danner was in it. Richard Chamberlain was in it. They all came out and kind of went off. Judith Ivey was in it. They were all great.

Tony Maietta:
And we're waiting and waiting and waiting, and finally the door opens and out peers this head with long, stringy hair and big glasses, and it's Geraldine Page. And she comes out, she's in this big coat. And of course, being the young actors we were, we pounced on her. Oh, you're wonderful. Oh, I'm such a fan. I said, I loved a Trip to Bountiful, and she was very gracious. You know, we're just fanboying out on her, fangirling out on her, and she's very gracious. She's like, that's good.

Tony Maietta:
They said. We said, we're actors. We're actors. You are so inspirational. Thank you so much. And she's like, you know, that's good. Just keep at it. Keep at it.

Tony Maietta:
Keep studying. You'll be fine. And we say, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And my friend says, yes, thank you so much, Ms. Dewhurst.

Del Shores:
You have told me this story.

Tony Maietta:
And she stopped and she looked at her, and she just slowly turned away. And we were all standing there stunned. And my friend just kept saying. I said, I can't. Shut up, Shut up. I can't believe you said that. Shut up. Shut up.

Tony Maietta:
Geraldine Page died two weeks later.

Del Shores:
Oh, I think your friend had something to do with it.

Tony Maietta:
And I said, we think that that comment murdered her because she went home thinking, they think I'm Colleen Dewhurst. They think I'm Calling.

Del Shores:
It's better than thinking you're Joyce DeWitt.

Tony Maietta:
We're not going to be talking about Three's Company.

Del Shores:
Well, I. Tony, I think I told you. I haven't told you I actually met Horton Foote, or I didn't meet him. I'm not gonna lie. I did not meet him. But they were doing his play, Laura Dennis. But he had a. You know, I was such a big fan that Cameron Watson, my friend Cameron Watson, was in the play, and he said, come see this.

Del Shores:
Come see the play. And I have your seat sitting behind Horton Foote. And I was so intimidated that I didn't say anything to him. But a great thing happened to me that night. Dale Dickey flew out on stage as the crazy Woman. And afterwards, I. I accosted her and said, I must work with you. And now I've worked with her 22 times.

Del Shores:
She's wonderful. And that was. It was just a great. And you were talking about, you know, deaths. And I don't know if you remember, but Horton Foote actually wrote the day he Died. I think he was 90 or 91. He wrote in the Morning. He was staying with his daughter, Halle Foote, who did a lot of his plays.

Del Shores:
And he had adapted To Kill a Mockingbird for stage, not the Erit Sorkin version. And they were doing it at her theater, and he went to take a nap. She went to wake him up for the matinee, and he's dead. And I thought, that's how I want to go. I just want to write in the morning and maybe. Maybe get the matinee, you know, after. But

Tony Maietta:
that's a trooper. That's a trooper in every sense of the word.

Brad Shreve:
Like I say, when Tony mentioned about how Geraldine Page died, I thought, now the real grace is that she had the dignity to die between shows.

Del Shores:
Yeah. So not in it.

Tony Maietta:
Not on stage.

Del Shores:
Was it a heart attack, Tony? Was that how she.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, she died of a heart attack. She. And, you know, not 60. You know, she was 62, so she was not. She was. That's very young. That's very young and. But what a true artist, ladies and gentlemen, if you're not familiar with Geraldine Page, first of all, shame on you.

Tony Maietta:
Second of all, go download the Trip to Bountiful. There's also brilliant performances in Sweet Bird of Youth, Summer and Smoke, Pete and Tilly, one of my favorites. But she's also Woody Allen's Interiors. But one of my personal favorites is the hagsploitation film Whatever Happened to Aunt Alice? And the things she puts Poor Ruth Gordon through. I'm just gonna say it's a brilliant performance. They're all. They're all brilliant. Go watch a Geraldine Page movie.

Tony Maietta:
I guarantee you you will not be disappointed.

Del Shores:
I saw her recently in Honky Tonk Freeway because I was. I was interviewing Michael Childers and with this series here about. My husband makes films.

Tony Maietta:
His husband's movies. Yeah.

Del Shores:
Yes. And I'd never seen Honky Tonk Freeway. There she is as a nun.

Tony Maietta:
Just very small role, oddly enough. You know, Ann Bancroft was nominated for Agnes of God in a role that Geraldine Page originated on Broadway of the Mother Superior. So it's just all very.

Del Shores:
Yeah. And Meg Tilly was nominated and. For Amanda Plummer's role.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, this has been so much fun, Dell. I so thank you so much for joining Brad and myself on what is going on. What's the most recent thing that's going on with you that people should be aware of?

Del Shores:
And look, I just did the Recipe Box. It was actually in Birmingham, Alabama, not Texas. I did it, but it is going to Texas next. And I'm going to open the Recipe Box. My new play in Austin that will be in September. Between that, I'm actually directing a play in in Dallas called Mama Won't Die that my friend 80. 80 year old Patty Pell wrote in my writers class. So I'm going to go and do that.

Del Shores:
And our play, you know, I'm very involved with the Del Shores foundation. And our winning play, Cockroaches, opens here at the Revolution Theater, directed by EMERSON Collins on April 24th. So lots going on. And writing a new movie.

Tony Maietta:
Would you tell the people a little bit about the Del Shores Foundation? Because I find it is just an incredible, incredible organization.

Del Shores:
Yeah. What we do is we facilitate finding storytellers in three different mediums. Short film, screenplay and playwriting. And we have a contest every year. We're about to open it up in May for the next year. And anybody in 16 southern states can submit their plays, their screenplays, their short films. And we give opportunity to those who win. And all of our plays have been produced now and a couple of our short films have been produced.

Del Shores:
So we. And we facilitate getting meetings for our screenplay writers.

Tony Maietta:
Wonderful.

Del Shores:
To people I can't really get meetings with. It's amazing.

Tony Maietta:
It's a wonderful, wonderful foundation. I've always been so moved by the work you do for people who are in places not Los Angeles or New York or Chicago, which may not have the opportunity, opportunities readily available to, to have their work seen. And you Give them that opportunity. So people, please. What's the, what's the website? It's del shores foundation.org Go on, support this incredible cause. Go.

Del Shores:
And thanks for your support. Both of you have supported the organization. I appreciate it very much.

Tony Maietta:
Rent one of Dell's incredible films, Sorted Lives. I gotta tell you, Dell, I just watched Sorted Lives again last month and I could not stop laughing. You know how I am with that movie.

Del Shores:
But every year, 25 years old now.

Tony Maietta:
Amazing, amazing.

Brad Shreve:
It is next to impossible to be with a group of people that have seen that film. And quotes from the film don't start happening right in line.

Tony Maietta:
My friend John in West Virginia loves Love Sordid live. So everybody does. It's astounding.

Del Shores:
Thank you.

Tony Maietta:
So Brad, I think we need to thank our wonderful guest. Thank you so much, Del, for joining us today and for talking about. This was fun, this lovely, beautiful, beautiful film.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Del, I want to tell you, despite my teasing at the beginning, it is wonderful to see you and thank you for being on the show.

Del Shores:
Same and appreciate you both. So thanks for what you do here to keep us interested and the history of film alive and well. I love it.

Tony Maietta:
Well, thank you, Del. You're responsible for this. Well, Brad, I guess that leaves just one more thing left to say. But I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye. Let's say it's too early for him singing.

Brad Shreve:
I'm sorry, Tony. No, let's say goodbye.

Tony Maietta:
Goodbye bountiful goodbye. Goodbye everybody.