Cold Open From Stage Door

SPEAKER_05 0:06

Oh, you're who and Shakespeare's dead. No. Well, if he's the same one that wrote Hamlet, he is. Never heard of it. Well, certainly you must have heard of Hamlet. Well, I meet so many people. Hang on to your chairs, girls. We're going to get another load of Shakespeare. Is it against the rules of the house to discuss the classics?

SPEAKER_04 0:26

No, go right ahead. I won't take my sleeping pill tonight. It might interest you girls to know that all Greek actresses knew their Shakespeare. How about their onions? I fail to see what onions have to do with Shakespeare. If you listen to Miss Randall, you might learn something. I like Amos and Andy. In my day, we were not only actresses, we were technicians. We learned how to trade from the ground up. That's what we should have.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

I want to be a Swiss bell ringer. I want to do something with my hands. Yes, further with your feet than bigger. The trouble with you is you're all trying to be comics. Don't you ever take anything seriously? After you sit around for a year trying to get a job, you won't take anything seriously either. Well, do you have to just sit around and do nothing about it? Maybe it's in the blood. My grandfather sent around while he was lady. Well, my grandfather didn't. And if he and a lot of others hadn't crossed the country in a cupboard wagon, there'd still be Indians living in Wichita.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

Who do you think's living there now?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maeta.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just the guy who likes movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Tony, my moving to Spain has proven to be a bigger challenge to this podcast than I expected. Tell me about it. I look and I'm like, okay, uh, that movie is showing on blank HBO Max, Prime, or sometimes on YouTube. And I'm like, okay, no problem, Tony. And then when I actually try to watch it, it says, not available in your country. Yeah, yeah. So this particular movie, it took a while, but I did find it on uh we we actually have a VPN and we had to it it I watched the movie and it was worth it uh to be able to see it to talk about this episode. But it I wasn't expecting this.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I wonder about that because for some reason I I think it's from when I was in London. Somehow I'm on Amazon UK and I will go to buy something and it will tell me it's 57 pounds. I'll be like, wait a minute, what what? No, wait, and so I have to switch back. So I was wondering if you had the same issue with these movies, you know, on Prime.

Why Stage Door Matters

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, you know, it's uh we have a VPN, so I can just put on that we're in the United States, and usually it's okay. I had a real struggle with this one for whatever reason. It wasn't, I don't know what country it wasn't let me be in the United States, and therefore um it took a while, but I finagled it and watched the film.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Well, we should probably tell everybody what this one is that we're talking about, because I have something to say about it too. We are going to discuss a movie I love and we'll find out what Brad thinks. Um, from RKO in 1937. It is indeed stage door. And here's my thing: why is it, Brad, every time we talk about a Catherine Hepburn movie from the 30s, I get sick. I don't understand that. You're the one who has a problem with Alice Adams. Why am I the one that gets sick?

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Well, and you know, uh, you know, I saw this as the uh director is Gregory La Cava and Catherine Hepburn, and I'm like, oh my god, we got Alice Adams back again.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

But it's not, that was George Stevens.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

So I thought Lacava was involved in uh, or was it Pedro Pandro Berman?

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Pandro Berman. Pandro Berman was the production head at RKO. So yes, he was involved in Alice Adams and Stage Door.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Because this is RKO. Okay, I knew there was some connection. This is RKO from 1937. But so, ladies and gentlemen, yes, my voice might have a little bit of a uh a sultry feel to it. It is, I am, I am fighting this, but I wasn't going to let this incredible cast down. I really wanted to show up for them because I love this movie. I'm interested to see what Brad has to say about this movie, and so I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna postpone this again. I was gonna say, no, we're going to do this. We're gonna do stage door, we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Well, I gotta say, your uh sultry Earth a kit thing is uh really, really hot.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Earth a kit? I guess it's better than be Arthur. Um, anyway, this is indeed Stage Door from RKO in 1937. I love this movie. Um, should we just jump in, Brad, and find out just your overall thoughts before we start talking about this movie? Because we have first of all, we have a lot to talk about, but we also have a very special moment coming up. I think you can guess what that moment is, but it's a very special moment in this particular instance because this film features. Yes, should I just go ahead and say it? This film features the very first A movie performance in a supporting role by none other than, yes, Miss Lucille Ball. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

And I was taken aback, it was the first sentence in the movie. What was the first sentence? The first line. She had the first line. She had the first line. There was the woman uh singing, uh, Hattie, I think it was her name. Hattie, yes. Going la la la la. She always did around the house. And the and I you know, Lucille Ball did not look like Lucille Ball. I mean, once you really looked at her, she she was like a chameleon in this movie, in my opinion. But I'm first thing I heard was her voice. I'm like, oh good God, that's Lucy.

First Reactions And The Women Comparison

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Well, she's a 20, she's 26, first of all. Yes. And it really was her was her first major role in an A film. Uh, and then she went right back to doing B films. And she became queen of the B's. But this was her first, um, her first major role in an A film, alongside, I mean, these are some co-stars. Let's talk about this for a minute. It features, stage door features the two most important stars at RKO at this time, Katherine Hepburn as Terry Randall, and Ginger Rogers as Gene Maitland. So before we go any further, should we rip the bandit off and uh I can gird myself for your opinion on this film, Brad?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

It's another film where Kathryn Hepburn acts like a witch. I am kidding. I I loved this film. Isn't it fun? It is fun. You know, there's there's certain things about it that naturally that um I wouldn't say I was real critical about at all. Um, but it reminded me a lot of the women in the sense that you just read my mind.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I was that was the next thing I was gonna say was last year we did the women, this year it's the girls. It's yeah, because they're you know, it's basically, yeah, that's it exactly. It's like the women, the dialogue, the sit not the situations, but the the the put-downs, the sharp, biting humor is exactly like the humor in the women.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Exactly. I was sitting there, uh in fact, Maurice loves the women, and I was hoping that we well, probably better that not until after we do this because I I don't like him to uh influence my thing. But after I watched it the first time, I thought, oh, he'll love this movie. So when I and you know that we've been trying to do this recording for quite a while, so I'm like, okay, I better get a refresher. And the first time it was easily available, that's the problem. Second time it's like, oh, what the hell? So uh I said, okay, I've got to watch it again, and I was hoping he could watch with me, and he couldn't. So yeah, it's just um the same biting dialogue that's fun, and uh, there's more men in this movie because there were none of the women, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Um rapid fire dialogue. Yeah, they were they were mainly props. I was thinking about it. It's you could call it the girls, but these women who are in this film are pretty much all the same age as the women who were in the women, they're just playing younger girls, and this is why I love this film. I love Hepburn in it, I love Ginger Rogers in it, but it's this supporting cast. This film is legendary for this incredible supporting cast because not only do we have Lucille Ball, we have Eve Arden, we have Ann Miller, we have Phyllis Kennedy, we have Jack Carson. These people all became pretty major stars later in their career. And this is for many of them, it was one of their very, very first jobs. We also have uh Gail Patrick and Constance Collier, and we have, unfortunately, or fortunately, the one problem I have with this film, and I think everybody does, and the one person who got an Oscar nomination for this film is Andrea Leeds. Uh, she got an Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actress. She plays Kay Hamilton, and she is probably the weakest thing, the weakest link in this entire cast. Not her fault, but I think the weakest link. What do you what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

I agree 100%, and I was thinking, oh my god, I'm drawing a blank and I'm gonna embarrass myself. Did Olivia uh De Havillan play Melanie and Gone with the Wind? She sure did, and it was the same character, just tragic, melancholy at all times, like and it the fact that nobody could tell that this woman has serious problems. It's like they kept glossing over that this woman is a walking, living zombie.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

And I felt like mental problems here.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yes, and I felt the same way. That's one thing I've you know, I have never watched all of Gone with the Wind, but I know enough to know the characters, and the only reason I haven't watched all is because it's so long. And I felt the exact same way with this character. It's just yeah, uh it she was too tragic, too tragic.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Uh well, she didn't have much to play. And interesting you mentioned Melanie because you know she was very close to securing that part uh in Gone with the Wind. Oh, that doesn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

She looked uh she looked just like Melanie.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

You know, Olivia de Havilland obviously takes Melanie into another stratosphere. She's wonderful as Melanie. She has but Andrea Leeds, I think the problem with Andrea Leeds in this film is she has nothing to play. This character is pretty much a nothing. So she has to rely on old theatrical tricks, you know, her eyes getting wide, the it's just it's an over-the-top performance. When you have these really wonderful contemporary performances, I think that's the thing that stands out to me about Stage Door is yes, this is 1937, but other than the fashions and a few of the phrases, this could be today. These women are just as fresh and just as biting with each other and just as sarcastic. It's a it's a wonderfully fresh film, and that's that's how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, I uh it's really sad that she had that role. When you consider that she had to go up against Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Eve Arden, who I I adore Eve Arden, Ann Miller, Ann Miller, who uh she was my favorite character. She was just a ray of sunshine in this.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Do you know do you remember what her name is? Do you remember? This is the thing. Do you remember what Ann Miller's name is in this? Annie. Annie. That's the thing. Annie's name, Ann Miller's name is Annie, Eve Arden's name is Eve, and there's a reason for all that, which we'll get into. But she's the only one who came away with a uh Andrea Leeds is the only person who came away with an Oscar nomination. That's what's so funny. That's tragic.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Her character is not nearly as tragic as the fact that that happened.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

So I guess we should give a little background about what Stage Door is about for people who maybe I see, I don't know why people would listen to us if they haven't seen the film. But anyway, they might need a refresher. It may have been a while. They might need a refresher. So do you want to give them that refresher, Brad?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah, uh, these are a group of young aspiring actresses. As usual, they don't have a dime to their name with hopes of being stars. And they live in is the Footlight Club, it's a uh boarding house. Right. Kind of a rundown boarding house in New York City, and kind of the fun thing where they uh hate each other and support each other. You know, there's there's always this uh competition between them, but in the end they really care about each other, and when things are down, they help each other. Right. And um Catherine Hepburn's character, uh, she comes in to she's Terry Randall, and I keep calling her Tony Randall. And uh I'm sure he would have appreciated that. She is from a wealthy background and wants to be a star and doesn't want people to know that she's the girl with money, and uh uh just kind of causes disruption in the in the play, but not necessarily to it. She just does her character itself creates that situation. Yeah, and her character itself what causes the demise of Annie, though again it wasn't a not Annie, not Andrew, not Annie, Andrea Leeds.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Oh, I'm sorry, yes, yes, Kay.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

So she caused the she causes the tragic demise of Kay, but again, it wasn't like uh she was a villain, it's just her circumstances caused disruption throughout the whole house. Yeah, I think and that's it. It's mainly basically there was sleeping around and uh though of course very glossed over uh sleeping around and doing different things to become stars.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

It really is a kind of loose version of a star is born, um, because you have the Catherine Hepburn plays the person who becomes the star, and um Andrea Leeds plays Kay Who Falls because Kay had had success before. So it's kind of a star. The plot is very boilerpointed, and that's because this film is air quotes based on the play stage door by Edna Ferber and George S. Kaufman. However, it's so loosely based on the play that Kaufman said the film should be called Screen Door because it has so little in common with it. It's basically the same, some of the same characters, and uh and it's set at the same place, but that's about it. That's about it.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah, he he pretty much said the only similarity between the play and the movie is it takes place at a boarding house. And that pretty much is where it ends. He was not happy with this thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

So when people go to see stage door the play, they expect stage door the film, and they're always very disappointed. I remember when I was in college, people would frequently do scenes from stage door, and everyone would be like, Well, that's not the wait a minute, what is this? You know, it's the same characters but completely different situations. But the Footlights Club is based on a real hotel. Did you know that? Four aspiring actresses, which existed in New York from like 1913 until 1979. It was a real place.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

I didn't know that specifically. I I assumed in New York you had the same thing in LA. You know, when you go around uh Hollywood and West Hollywood, you can see the old homes where all the actresses lived together. Uh, there's that one not far from you in West Hollywood that's the first time. Studio club. Marilyn lived in. Yeah. Yeah. So I assume there was the same thing. So it doesn't surprise me that's based on a real real place.

La Cava’s Improvised Dialogue Method

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah, the the hotel in New York was the first. It was called the Rehearsal Club, and some of its famous residents were uh Diane Keaton, Sandy Duncan, Blythe Danner, and probably the most famous resident was Carol Burnett. And Carol Burnett talks a lot in her books about the rehearsal club and living at the rehearsal club and how much like Stage Door it was. So it's a real it was a real place, uh, and it did it spawned this play by Ferber and Kaufman, which ran for about 169 performances, and it was purchased by RKO as a vehicle for Catherine Hepburn and Ginger Rogers. But the director, Gregory Lacava, who was a very noteworthy director at this time, he had directed My Man Godfrey. Um was very well known for being. He basically looked at scripts as blueprints. And what's so brilliant about the film version of Stage Door is he threw out the plot, he threw out the plot of the play, and he basically crafted it around these actresses he hired. He would listen to conversations they had on the set, he would listen to their dreams, their their wise cracks, their interplay. And he basically developed that into this screenplay. He he incorporated their real life personalities, their real life traits into these characters. That's why Ann Miller's name in this film is Annie. That's why Eve Arden's name is Eve, because they are in essence playing themselves. Now, he did it to the point where Lucy Ball, whose name is not Lucy in this, it's Judy, she even wears her own clothing. It's so funny. That's that's how Lucy O'Ball dressed in 1937. She wore her own clothing. She even, this is what's so funny, when the film was done shooting, she even built RKO for the use of her wardrobe. I think they gave her like 50 bucks and said, Go on, Lucy, go on, go on.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

You may know more than I if it's true, because I knowing that they were picking up on lines that the actresses were making throughout the the studio. I actually read that they had stenographers going around following. I don't know if that's true. Yeah, no, absolutely. Because there was no script. So he wasn't personally all the time. It was they had stenographers just wandering around writing things down.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

They were literally taking down the things these actresses said to each other. And that's why I think this film is so fresh and it has such a liveliness to it, because it really sounds like actual exchanges because so much of them was. And this really um, this really threw Hepburn at first. She did not understand this when she, first of all, at this point in her career, Hepburn needed a hit badly, badly. This is right before box office poison time. She had done Sylvia Scarlet right before this, which is a cult film now, but are but at the time was considered to be the worst a picture any studio had ever done. And so she got this, she was assigned this role specifically with this cast to as like box office insurance because Ginger Rogers, conversely, was on the ascent. You know, she had just hit her peak with Fred Astaire, and she was really on her way to becoming the the first lady of RKO. And so they wanted, they put, they wanted to put them together because they would be a great contrast, which I think they are. I love Hepburn and Rogers together. I think they're a fantastic, fantastic contrast. But she did not understand any of this. She was freaked out by the fact that there was no script and she didn't know what she was getting into when she signed to do this. So she went to Pandro Berman, who was the head of Archaeo at the time, and she said, Um, I I I like Lacava, I I like his work, but I don't I don't know who I'm playing, Pandro. There's no script. What should I do? And he told her to go talk to Lakava. You know, get out of my office, Kate. Go talk to Lakava, he's your director. So she went to him and she said, Who is this person I'm playing, Gregory? Who is this person I'm playing, Gregory? And he said, She's the human question mark. And Hepburn thought, Well, that's interesting. What does that mean? And Lakava said, Damned if I know. So she had no clue. So she's basically playing herself in this film, playing her the essence of Catherine Hepburn in this film.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Exactly. And that is one thing I loved about it because to me, Catherine Hepburn and um Alice Adams kind of caught me off guard, and you know, I didn't like the character anyway. And bringing up Baby, which I I like bringing up Baby, but it it just didn't feel like Kate Hepburn to me. This was totally the Kate I know and love. And yeah, she's basically playing herself.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

She's just one of those people that she can play herself every time and used to love and adore her. Well, you know, it's funny. In the play, the character of Terry was from a rural, she's in she's from the Midwest in this movie, too. And I'm like, Midwest by way of Bryn Mahr? How is this character from the Midwest? It's Katherine Hepburn. But she was like a farm girl in the play, and obviously they they got rid of that when they had Catherine Hepburn. But I think that what is amazing is the fact that Hepburn realized, okay, you know what, you're right, because Pendra Berman told her, look, you would be lucky to be fifth build in a hit film, Kate. You should just you know be quiet and go do your work. And she said that she really grew to appreciate and like what Lakava was doing. So she gave him an opportunity to to really to finesse this character and finesse this film until the point where she really grew to respect him.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

And you're missing the point here because she was from the Midwest because her father was a wheat trading magnet.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yes, heparn in a wheat field. So and he's to the point it's time to milk the cows, father.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yes, to the point that the people in theater who he know knew who he was. And I'm sorry, there are some very, very wealthy people in the Midwest who are involved in wheat and other types of production that nobody knows their names and they would not have been known in this movie. I did get a little chuckle out of that.

Lucille Ball Clip And Calla Lilies

SPEAKER_00 21:44

But just the idea that she's from Illinois. I mean, yeah, exactly. You know, by way of Hartford, Connecticut. Um, and then we have, of course, we have Ginger Rogers, the second build one. And as I said, Ginger was really on her ascent here. She had just hit her peak with Fred Astaire, and she She was on her way to becoming a major force at RKO. And I think we should say something briefly about RKO. RKO eventually became Desi Lu. Lucio Ball and Desi Arnaz bought RKO in 1957. And so it's kind of, and Lucio Ball was a contract player at RKO. So was Desi Arnaz. So that's kind of wonderful when you're watching Lucy in this movie, knowing someday she's going to own this place. But RKO was what was called a minor major. And what they meant was in Hollywood at this time you had the major studios. You had MGM, you had Warner Brothers, Paramount, and then you had the miners, Columbia, Republic. Well, RKO was kind of in between because RKO, I mean, you can't call any studio that put out King Kong, that put out the Astera Rogers films, that put out Citizen Kane, that had Catherine Hepburn. You can't call it a minor, but it wasn't in the league of MGM or Paramount, in that it was this huge machine. And I think that's really important because Hepburn would not have been allowed to do the films she did that really like started the downfall of her career after Alice Adams at a major at MGM. They would have said, hell no, Paramount, never. But RKL gave them a certain amount of freedom. And so it was really fascinating at this time that Hepburn was in such trouble, but she still acted like she was queen of the lot. That's the thing about Hepburn. You know, she's still just like when she first came to Hollywood. And you can imagine she was pretty intimidating for some of these younger actresses. And Brad, this is where we have our very special moment. I mean, how can we do a film with Lucy O'Ball without having a Lucy moment? This whole thing's a Lucy moment. But here's what's special we have the lady herself. So I just want to play a little excerpt of Lucy O'Ball. I think this is from like 1986 or 87, talking about what it was like for this young starlet to work, what Catherine Heparn was like on the set of Stage Door.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Catherine put most of us in panic. Uh the very way that she talked was just uh uh a little terrifying for me. I just didn't know uh quite what she was saying, and and she didn't talk directly to me at any time, so it it really didn't matter. But I I never um I was riveted to her whenever she was around. So was everyone else. She looked wonderful. She was very, very beautiful, very slim, very chic, and not at all standoffish with us. She just ignored the whole set.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

She looked wonderful. What's funny is uh we talked about Kate Plain herself. She very much did in this play as well. I mean, first of all, it it's hard to imagine Kate not being uh overwhelming. She has such a strong presence. And her character in this film was very much like her. She came to the door and she's like, this is the way it is. I'm a I'm an act, I'm an actress, and yeah, I'm gonna be a star. Why wouldn't she be a star? That's just the way it goes, you know. And she had so much confidence until she actually got up there on the stage and was a little bit awkward for a few minutes. And uh uh I don't know, I just love Kate Hepburn.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Well, I also think we should point out that this film is also where the line the calaleles are in bloom again. Such a strange flower, suitable for any occasion. It's from this film. However, and this goes in line with Lakava basically creating this whole script out of whole cloth, of creating as they go along. Those lines are actually from a play Catherine Hepburn did a few years before called The Lake. And it's the play in which the famous wit Dorothy Parker said that Catherine Hepburn runs the gamut of emotions from A to B. And it was a huge, huge disaster for Catherine Hepburn. So the fact that Lacava said, we're gonna put this in stage door. And what's wonderful about it is she's taking control of the, she's she's owning it. You know what I mean? She's making fun of it. It's now a joke. You know, this was a very, very difficult thing for Katherine Hepburn. She was a, she, you know, she came out of the out of the blue, won the Academy Award, was the hottest thing around, and then went back to New York to do a play and was basically crucified. So she took this horrible thing and flipped it and made it funny or made it part of now. She owned the story, you know, now she owned the narrative. And I love that. And so that line, the Caladilies are in bloom, which is so identified with her, is from this movie, but was actually from one of the most difficult things in Captain Hephern's career. And she owns it now, and she tells the story, which I love about that. Another way that Lakava based these characters on these actresses, just threw out everything else and just went with these actresses, and it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

And I wonder, I, you know, I don't like doing line-by-line comparisons between movies and books and movies and plays because there's always changes. But and I'm glad you explained why the changes were made to this film because I was gonna ask you if you knew why, and it makes perfect sense the way you explained it. I'm wondering if the Kay Hamilton role was much different in the play. She had to be a better character than this.

Supporting Cast That Steals Scenes

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, you know, there's just no it's really hard to compare. They really are like two different animals. They really are. I mean, there are some some similarities, but it's just, you know, it really is the the film, in my opinion, the film is so much better. Uh, with these little things which are kind of like, eh, okay, that's a little like the you know, like her character. It's a it's a bit hard to watch. It's just it's so manner. She just didn't have any to play. But she got the Oscar nomination, you know. So there were four Oscar nominations for this film, by the way. Um, she got one of them. We'll go over the the other ones near the end. But you know what I let's talk about this cast for a minute, besides Hepburn and Rogers and Lucy. As I said, we have Eve Arden as Eve, who's basically doing Eve Arden. Yes, she totally plays herself, which I always loved. I love seeing Lucy and Eve Arden in a scene together, knowing what their future would be, knowing that eventually Lucy would be Eve Arden's boss at when she was doing Armist Brooks on TV. And also the fact that they had very at this time their screen personas were very similar. They were both what what was called drop gag girls, and the fact that they were always sarcastic. They would drop a line and walk off. So it's fun to see them together. We have Ann Miller as Annie, who was hold on to your phones, 14 years old. Did you know that? No. Ann Miller was 14. She told everybody she was 18, but she's 14 years old in this film. And she was kind of discovered by Lucy at a nightclub. She'd been working in a nightclub as a dancer, she's a dancer, and she got her RKO contract through Lucy. And um, it's amazing because she doesn't come off. She comes off as a young girl. She's doesn't at all seem to be 14 years old. I mean, there's some problems there, you know. She doesn't have a romance, thank God. Um, but one of the things her character always does is when she's just standing around, she tap dances. And that's what Ann Miller would do. You know, when she was bored or when she was nervous, she would tap dance. So he put that in there as well. My favorite character though, and the one I kind of call the Marjorie Main of this film, is Phyllis Kennedy is Hattie. I think Hattie is so funny. Hattie's basically the um the maid at the Footlights Club. She's not an actress like the rest of the girls. She's the one who cleans up all the time and you know, brings people in. And so she's take, she's, she's, I don't want to call her a maid, but she really is kind of the maid. And she's so funny. She has some of the funniest, funniest lines in this film. And she's like the Marjorie Maine character of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, and I would call her a maid, certainly. Certainly. It really blows my mind that what you just said about Ann Miller, because I know most of these women were the same age. Eve Arden and um Kate Hepburn were about the same age. The others were a few years uh younger, but they're all right about the same age. And you're right, she was born um 12 to 15 years older than later than some of these others. So that is shocking. Yeah, it's crazy, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

She looked very young, but I never would have guessed that age. Four 14. I mean, that's insane. Um, we have Gail Patrick, who um usually played this kind of role. Gail Patrick plays Linda Shaw. She's pretty much Ginger Rogers nemesis. They the the exchanges between Linda and and uh Ginger and Gene, Ginger Rogers' character's name is Gene, are some of the best, the most biting ones. I know one of my favorite exchanges is that uh Linda has a fur coat on, and she talks about how she's just you know making conversation with with Ginger Rogers saying how how wonderful is these animals give up their lives for our comfort. And Ginger Rogers goes, Well, you know the rodent family better than I do. And just things like that. You know, remind me to walk up uh next time I hope I see you with a fishbowl in my hand or something like that. It's just there's some wonderful, I have some lines later that we can go over, but it's just some wonderful, bitchy, bitchy lines. And she kind of played these kind of roles. She played a similar role in My Man Godfrey. And then I think finally we have um we gotta talk about Constance Collier, who plays the uh theatrical grand dome of the film. Her name is Anne Luther. And Constance Collier was actually a vocal coach. She was a Broadway grand dame who came to Hollywood when when talkies began, and she coached actresses and actors in the proper way to speak for sound films, for talking films. And she became very close with Hepburn after this film, and she actually coached Hepburn uh in later years when Hepburn went on stage to do Shakespeare. So that's pretty interesting. I think that's an interesting little connection there.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

She also that same year was in the film We Willy Winky, which was a Shirley Temple film that was one of the top-grossing films that year. I've got the list of some of the top-grossing films. And uh yeah, she was in that film. Uh, I presume somewhat forgettable. I never heard of We Willy Winky.

Weak Plot Threads And Miscasting

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, well, she's she's yeah, I no, I have, but yeah, she was she was the grand dame, you know, and I just think it's interesting that she and Hepburn became very close. And she was a fun character. I really enjoyed her. She's she's a lot of fun. I love it. I love it when Hepburn's having problems with her role in the play, and and and she turns to the director and she says, Have you ever considered an older actress for this part? I mean, it's just it's like it's great. It's it's great stuff. It's great stuff.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

So let me tell you my challenges with this film. Please do. I think it please does. I'm sure the play all took place in the boarding house. That's my guess. And I kind of wish that was the case here because the the fun of this film to me was the dialogue back and the back and forth between all the different actresses. Yeah. There were stories, secondary storylines in this that I kind of felt like could have gone somewhere, but they didn't really go anywhere. Yeah. Kay Hamilton is the perfect example, Andrea Leeds. She didn't really have a storyline other than walking around being depressed and then dying at the, you know, killing herself at the end. Like a zombie, yeah. Yeah. I mean, other than we knew that she had been a uh had great reviews the year before, that was really all of it. I mean, it really didn't go anywhere. The other thing is Terry Randall's father. The fact that he funded this play to try and get her to uh he wanted her to embarrass herself so she would get out of acting. That kind of was like a an like tossed out there. There really wasn't much story or conflict in that. So to me, it kind of was unnecessary. Uh the other one was um, who was it that was having an affair with Adolf Manju?

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Um Well, it was uh Gail Patrick. Gail Patrick was the original, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Gail Patrick, Gail Patrick. Yeah, and I don't I think that could have been played up or or played down more. I would like to have seen it played up a little more. There were all these little things that I kind of felt like were they were there to carry the plot, but I didn't think they added enough to the the plot. I would have just liked to see I would have liked to not have seen them played out. I think that's the deal. They tried to play them out and it was weak and they didn't really go anywhere. When I think if they all just sat there in that room doing their where I thought they were best and talking about those things, it would have been a lot stronger, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

I agree with you. You know what my problem is with this, uh, besides the things you mentioned? What? Adolf Manju. I mean, he's like 175 years old in this movie, and we're supposed to believe that he's this charming, sexy impresario. Originally they wanted Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Now, I don't know if anybody's familiar with Douglas Fairbanks Jr. out there, but just watch Gunga Din and you'll know who Douglas Fairbanks Jr. is. Obviously, he's the son of Douglas Fairbanks, but he was a suave. He's very much like Carrie Elwis. Suave, so handsome, charming. And that's who Anthony Powell should be. Not this septigenarian that we're supposed to believe has is being able to. I mean, yes, he's got a lot of power. He's a big theatrical producer, and these girls kind of fall in love with him, though. Ginger Rogers, you get the idea, Ginger Rogers is in love with him. So when he air quotes takes up with Catherine Hepburn, it's kind of ludicrous. I it just isn't, it doesn't. I'm like, really? Adolf Manjou? Come on. Doesn't make sense to me. Doesn't make sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

I think it'll have worked if it was all a power play. It would have worked really well as a power play because he is a handsome man and he is debonair. But yeah, I I I agree with you. There was nothing really level about him about him at all.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Well, no, nothing at all. And it's basically the same part he played in Morning Glory opposite Hepburn a few years before, too. So that's another thing, too. It's like, oh, okay, same character.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

He wasn't really that old. He was born in 1890, so that would have been 47. I'm granted he's about 20 years older than these women, but 47 in that period was much was it's much different than 47 today.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Jesus, 47. Wow, he had some hard living. No, I know he did silence, and I knew I was being facetious, obviously, when I said he was 78 years old. But I he's still, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Douglas Fairbanks Jr., yes. Hello, sign me up. But I think we should say so. The plot of what happens in this is Hepburn does play this young upstart who comes to the Footlights Club and has clashes with these girls because she's obviously of a different class than these girls are, but she's really trying to get along. And her father, there's a play that's going around that Andrea Leeds, for some reasons, since she had a big hit last year, she feels she has to be cast in this new play. And she pretty much walks around like a wet mop throughout the entire play because she feels it's her role. It's not her role. Any one of these girls has every right to this role, you know, but you get the idea that she feels like it's hers. And Catherine Hepburn's father decides to, as Brad said, decides to back this play in order to humiliate his daughter. There's a nice father, and get her out of theater. Well, what happens is that Andrea Leeds' character, Kay, goes off the deep end when she finds out that Catherine Hepburn got the role and basically kills herself. And the trauma of her death suddenly makes Terry Randall, Catherine Hepburn, a great actress.

unknown 37:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

And we're supposed to believe that she was able to act, she becomes a huge hit, and she's we're supposed to believe that she's able to sustain this for like months and months and months. Because at the end of the movie, she's still a huge actress. She's still a big star. It's very funny.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

The thing I don't get about Kay Hamilton, Andrea Leed's character, is uh unless I don't remember, there was nothing that made it sound like there's a reason that she thought she should have been the star of this film, other than uh Adolf Manji's character that she'd worked with him before, which I didn't even connect until the very end of the play. But it's just like she to me, it felt if if there was more dialogue about it, it was lost on me. To me, it just felt like she randomly picked this play that she thought was gonna be big head, and therefore the role should be hers.

The Suicide Scene And Tonal Whiplash

SPEAKER_00 38:43

She just felt proprietary about this role because she because the season before she had done a play with Anthony Powell and she was the talk of the town, and then suddenly she's back to square one. Well, that's the theater, folks. That's what this movie's telling you, too. It's about the struggle about how insane it is to try to be an actress. Hello. It's how insane it is to try to have a career in show business because it's one constant rejection after another. And that's what this play is about, basically. These girls are constantly getting rejected, constantly looking for work, going to producers' offices, not being able to be seen. And so she believes that she has she's feels very proprietary about this new play. And when she doesn't get it, it sends her into a depression. And clearly she has mental issues because, and here's another problem I have with it her her death scene. It's Catherine Hepburn's opening night in the play, and they're all going to see it except for Eve Arden. They said, Aren't you gonna go? What'd she say? Aren't you gonna catch the opening night? And Eve said, No, I'm gonna go tomorrow and catch the closing. I love that one. Um, with that cat draped around her, with with Henry draped around her. Um and so she just feels proprietary. So she goes into this kind of they're all going to the theater, and and Andrea Leed starts walking up the stairs to her room, and suddenly it's last year, and you see her eyes get wider and wider and wider, and she hears the voices, the distant voices of the past, and the applause. And she just keeps walking up the stairway higher and higher and higher out of camera shot. And next thing you know, you hear a scream, and she fell out the window. Done, dead. Now, I I don't know how she how she just walked out the window. She opened, she had to open up a window to walk out of it. I that is one of the worst death scenes, I think, in Hollywood, because she just keeps on walking, and that's it. We're supposed to have to leave. She walked, opened a window, leaned out, fell out. The whole time in this haze. It's really, really the weakest part of this film, is that, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Well, first of all, it was quite obvious she was gonna kill herself the way she you know had that look in her look in her eyes. And I think it was at least a three-story house based on the staircase. So, you know, you see her walking upstairs, you knew it was gonna be over for her. But again, that was uh I you know, this this movie a lot of the writing is very weak. And uh to me, what makes it is the amazing cast. I think if it wasn't for this cast, I would have been really disappointed in it. Because like we were talking about K Hamilton's character, if she had been promised by Anthony Powell or even hinted to that this was gonna be her role, and then she lost it, that would have made more sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Absolutely, absolutely. And like she had been replaced. Yeah, there's a lot of that little stuff she'd been replaced by Hepburn, you know what I mean? That would have made so much more sense because she had the role, but she just felt entitled to it. Yeah, she had some entitlement issues, Kay did, and also some some some issues with psychosis, because she, yeah, it it it really is the weakest thing. And then don't you love or hate when after she dies and time has gone on, they show her a tombstone?

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Did you see that?

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Which I heard it was cut from the film originally. It was cut and originally because people are like, Why are we seeing this girl's tombstone? I mean, my god, you know, this is a funny movie, and suddenly we see her tombstone. Oh yeah, dead at 25. Um, but meanwhile, Catherine Hepburn's a huge star. Um, so she's been carrying on in this PTSD trance, being able to maintain this performance in this play. It's it's hysterically funny.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Well, and that's the the odd thing is it's a it's a funny film, uh, it's it's not light, but it's very enjoyable. There's a lot of laughs. All of a sudden, I'm I I'm watching her walk up the stairs. I'm like, oh my god, this has really turned dark. But then the movie's over. Yeah. It's not like it took a it's not like it took this dark turn and you had the time to digest it, and it was carried on, and then it was like you had this tragic event, and then oh, done. Kate's a star.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Kate's a star. All's good. And Ginger Rogers forgives her. Kate and Ginger Rogers, who had been in each other's throats, are suddenly palsy wowsy, and life goes on. We move ahead four months, and guess who's getting married? Lucy's character, Judy, is getting married, and she's leaving the Footlights Club. And Lakava had that happen in the play because Lucy um was very legendarily very, very close to her family. But Lucy O'Bal would never have left Hollywood to go back and get married. I mean, she brought her family out here. She wasn't about to leave, but that's kind of interesting that Lucy's character is the one that goes off to get married. And in reality, Lucy O'Bal ended up owning the studio. So there's a little bit of a dichotomy there. But and life just goes on, and a new, a new hopeful comes in the Footlights Club and asks for a room, and she'll probably get the dead girls' room. That's the way it works. That's showbiz, kids.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Very all about Eve. I immediately thought all about Eve.

Favorite Insults And Best Lines

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah, just one replacing the other, and these girls just go on and go on and go on in this fantasy of becoming stars. So it's kind of a depressing thing in a way, but what saves it, as you said, is this incredibly funny, sharp, biting dialogue. You know, I think Ginger, some of these lines. I love, I wrote down a couple of them. First of all, as I said, I love Hattie. And to me, Hattie is so damn funny. And um one of the funniest things she does is when Grady Sutton, who we remember from Alice Adams, by the way, he plays the butcher, and his name, of course, is Butch. Yes. And when Lucy, Lucy is kind of like flirting with him in order for him to maybe give some, give them some free chicken the next time that Hattie's in the butcher shop to get the meat, to get the lamb. Addie thinks she's flirting at the for real, and she comes up to her, and under her breath, she says, I'd like to turn my back on you sometime with a handful of knives. Stuff like that. Or, you know, Ginger Rogers says to uh to Gail Patrick's character when she says she's going to go out with uh Anthony Powell and she's gonna row she's going to dine on Pheasant Bordelais, and Ginger Rogers says, Well, don't chew the bones and give yourself away. We started off on the wrong foot. Let's stay that way. I mean, it's just got it's got some wonderful, wonderful, sharp, funny, biting dialogue. And I think that's what saves it. That's what makes it such a fun movie to watch.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

The dialogue is wonderful, the cast is wonderful, so all those loose ends or or flat storylines survive because of it. And you really miss it. You know, I don't know if I would have caught them had I I probably would have, but not nearly to the degree. You know, we I'm sitting there analyzing a lot more for the show than I would probably if I'm just trying to enjoy the movie. Because you know, Lucy's character is another one. Judith, she's dating this guy, but there's never a conflict there's never uh there are two things that could have happened. One, her going through the conflict of am I in love or do I want to be a star? That's one way it could have gone. The other, it could have been like out of the blue, because her character is Eve Arden's character. I mean, she they're they're crass, they're tough.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

And for it to, you know, her being the one in the in the house that wanted to be the big star, and out of the blue, she uh shocked to the audience. She says, you know what? I'm I'm in love. One of the two could have happened. To me, it's just kind of like, yeah, she's gonna wait, she's gonna get married.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Well, the one of the running gags in the movie is that she's constantly having people from her hometown of Seattle come to visit her. And Ginger Rogers is like, Oh, not dinner with another lumberjack. And they're like, Would you rather would you rather have lamb stew? And she goes, I'll go, I'll go. So it's it's she's that's a Lucy O'Ball thing, the family thing, people that she knew. So what happened was that yeah, one of these guys eventually, I guess, proposed to her when he was coming to take her out to dinner. Because there are girls like that. There were girls who would be in New York and would depend on people coming into town to buy them dinner. This is how these with Lucy did that when she was struggling in New York. Same thing. You know, she would depend on other people to to buy her dinner sometimes because they were so broke, because there was just so no work. And again, depression. I mean, this is also the depression, so it's even harder. Yeah, but uh that one line that I wanted to say that I thought was one of my very favorite lines was about the fur when when Gail Patrick comes down with the fur in Ginger Rogers when uh when she talks about the rodent family, and then uh Ginger Rogers responds, you know, someday I'm gonna be lucky enough to run into you while I'm carrying a bowl of goldfish. I mean, it's just great, it's right out of it, it's just like the women sharp, biting, which makes for me makes this movie work.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Yeah, and I want to say that when I tear apart a film like this in in this manner, it's actually my love for the film. Because as a writer, I see potential. You know, I think I told you that I used to rewrite TV shows because when I see something that I think is great and have the potential to be better, that drives me more than just a flop. So the whole time I'm like, okay, this I would have rewrote this, I would have rewrote this. So when I do these criticisms, it's like, God, this could have been just amazing. It's fun, it's great, but it could have been amazing.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

See, I yeah, and I'm a little more, I'm a little kinder to you about it. I love this, I I love the energy that Lakava captured that still transmits 80 80 years later, um, and just the screen just crackles. And to see these people so young, to see Lucy at 26, just vibrant and stunning and knowing everything that's ahead of her, to see Hepburn and Rogers really at their peak going after each other, to see to see Ann 14-year-old Ann Miller. It's fantastic. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

They all look beautiful. I mean, uh Lucia looked great, Ginger looked great, Catherine Hepburn. If they had a different hairstyle on her, looked fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Didn't like the bangs, huh? She's a little mannish. No, I wasn't wild about the bangs. She was very mannish, but she she still I'm just like, God, her face is just gorgeous. She's beautiful. What Lucy said, she was so beautiful. So I want to go over the stats of the movie, but before we do that, do you want to talk to the people about anything about the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Yes. We once again we are glad to be back. I know we've been back for a little bit, but it seems like we've been away forever. And uh so glad you're back with us. And thank you for we've gotten quite a few emails while we're gone and still get some. So thank you for the feedback. We love that. And the fact that you reach out to us tells us that you probably like the show. So uh please rate and review us. Uh, that is how Tony and I get our payment because we don't make money off the show. Uh, maybe when a big sponsor steps in. But we're not No, then they'll take control. We're not yeah, that's happened in some of the some of the shows. Yeah. Uh, but we're not counting on that. So and we're fine. We we love what we're doing and we love it. So if you guys could rate and review the show, and even more importantly, tell your friends about us.

Oscars Box Office And Career Fallout

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I love that part. Tell your friends about us. That's that's the most important thing. So, yes, thank you, Brad. Thank you for that. So, this film was nominated, as I said, for four Oscars. It was nominated for best film, it was called Best Production back then, director, screenplay, and as I said, Andrea Leeds was nominated for best supporting actress. It did not win a single Oscar, which, you know, is not surprising to me. I don't know, I don't know how it could have won it. I mean, there I love all those nominations, but never did. Do you know a little bit about Yeah, it was up against some biggies. It was. Well, 37 was a great year. What were some of the do you know some of the films it was up against in 37?

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Yeah, I can call out uh some of these. Now, not not all of them I'm aware of, but I certainly know the names. You had Saratoga with Clark Gable and Gene Harlow, uh Maytime, I'm not really familiar with that, but it had Jeanette McDonald and Nelson Eddie, yeah, Captain's Courageous with Spencer Tracy, A Star Is Born. I I think I've heard of that one. Uh the first one.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

The first Star is born.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Yes. 100 Men and a Girl. I don't know anything about that film. The Good Earth, Lost Horizon, of course, you know, uh Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Uh I already mentioned We Willy Winky, a Shirley Temple film. And then The Awful Truth with Cary Grant and Irene Dunn.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Uh, one of my favorite movies. One of my favorite movies. So, yeah, that's some stiff competition. You know, uh, some of those are some major classics. The Good Earth, Louise Reiner, it's a classic film. They're all classic. Snow White, for God's sake.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yeah, and as far as the as far as the intake, the awful truth and stage door were almost identical in how much they brought in, just about 1.7 million.

Final Thoughts And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 51:31

So, yeah, it wasn't um the thing is it made a very small profit. So, as Brad said, the total take was like 1.7, 1.8 million on a budget of almost a million. So it has small profits. So it wasn't a bomb, it wasn't a flop, but it didn't really do everything that RKL wanted for Hepburn's career. So after this, she immediately went into one of my favorite movies and one that we have talked about on this program, Bringing Up Baby, and then Holiday, and then she got the label Box Office Poison, and was really the end of her Hollywood career. You know, they offered her Mother Carrie's chickens, and she said, Where's the exit? How do I get out of here? And she bought herself out of her RKO contract and basically, you know, reinvented herself with the play, The Philadelphia Story, and then came back a triumphant movie star, the Catherine Hepburn we all know. So that's really interesting. Ginger Rogers had a couple more movies with Fred Astaire, uh, but that partnership was really on its way out, and she really became the queen of the lot. She went on to win an Oscar for Kitty Foy, beating Catherine Hepburn, who was nominated for the Philadelphia story. So that's kind of interesting. She actually beat Catherine Hepburn for that Oscar. Um, and you know, Ginger Rogers, I love her in this film. Ginger Rogers always has an energy, a contemporary quality that I just love. But she could be a little snooty sometimes. And I saw an interview with her when the interviewer asked her if she identified with any of these characters from Stage Door. And she said, Well, no, I wasn't a loser. We're like, Oh, it's nice to have sympathy for people. It's nice to have empathy, Ginger. Um, and of course, Lucy became Lucy. That's pretty much it. She owned the studio in 20 years. She was gonna own the studio, so that's pretty remarkable. Well, this is fun. I'm really glad we talked about this. I'm glad you were able to find it. And um, I'm glad that you uh that you enjoyed it as much as you did. I really do, as I said, I love this film. I think people should go watch it just to see this wonderful group of actresses right on the cusp of uh of Major Stardom for most of them.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yeah, and then one last thing I want to say about this cast is there's a character, the the woman that owned the boarding house, I can't remember who played her. She was a great actress, but there was a moment in the film that I felt like I was watching somebody acting, and it emphasized to me that the rest never felt like acting. They felt like their characters.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

Yeah, really sharp, contemporary. Today, like I said, I think this would if you have if they ever want to do uh revival of stage door, they should just do the script from this film because I think it would go over like Gangbusters. I agree. Yes, I think it'd be great. Well, that was Stage Door. Um, unless you have something else you want to say about it, Brad. I just have one more thing left to say, but as usual, I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir. No, let's say goodbye. Wonderful. Bye, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

Everything, everything, everything, that's all, folks.