Tony Maietta:
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's Golden Age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

Rob Reiner:
Inconceivable!

Brad Shreve:
Tony, I can't believe we are actually saying this is the start of season 3, and they never thought we'd make it more than a few episodes.

Tony Maietta:
It's inconceivable.

Brad Shreve:
It is inconceivable. How have you been?

Tony Maietta:
Oh, you know, I've been okay. I can be honest with you. I have been just— I've been climbing up the cliffs of insanity, trying to avoid the pit of despair. I just wish, you know, I wish I had a Holocaust cloak. Does any— do you have your Holocaust cloak because I could really, really, really use it because I'm feeling mostly dead. Not totally dead, but mostly dead.

Brad Shreve:
You know, I don't have to climb the cliffs of insanity because I've lived there my entire life.

Tony Maietta:
As you wish. You know what would put me out of this mood would be a nice MLT, mutton, lettuce, and tomato with lean mutton. That's what would do it. But no iocane powder or ROUSs, please.

Brad Shreve:
I don't get all these references you're talking about.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I was going to say, you know what else would put me out of this mood is if we were recording a podcast and we are.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, we are.

Tony Maietta:
Well, hey everybody, we're back. It's season— Brad, you're absolutely right. Season 3. And they said we wouldn't get past Breakfast at Tiffany's. Or was that me that said that? I don't remember. I don't remember. But we are. We're back for our third season.

Tony Maietta:
It's amazing. It's amazing. How are you? How are you over there in Espana? Michael says hello, by the way. Hola.

Brad Shreve:
Hola, Michael. I'm doing great. I still absolutely love Spain. As I think I told you, I've lived all over the United States, moved from one end to the other, having worked in the hotel industry and being transferred a lot. And I've never felt more at home in my life than I do sitting here in my little town in Spain. That's amazing. Yeah, it's just a whole change of life. Just a whole change of life.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm getting things done. I'm, you know, I'm working on getting 2 re-releases of novels I'm rewriting and 2 new novels published this year. And I believe, you know, I, my husband and I have a YouTube channel now where we talk about our adventures here in Spain. Those are all going very well.

Tony Maietta:
I've seen it. I've seen it. Yes, it looks, no, it looks amazing. It looks beautiful. LA's the same. Nothing changed.

Brad Shreve:
It's the same.

Tony Maietta:
It's just worse. We've actually had pretty decent weather. We've actually had the summer we didn't have, we're having now, which with all my friends on the East Coast who are literally getting feet of snow, we're obviously recording this before this drops. So by the time this drops, hopefully that snow will have melted. But yeah, LA is the same. It's always the same. It's always the same. But that's okay because we're not going to be in LA much longer.

Tony Maietta:
We're gonna take a couple trips here for our premiere episode. We're doing something very special, um, for our season premiere, kind of an echo of what we did last year where we talked about two Mel Brooks films. We're gonna talk about two films today. So a supersized, uh, premiere episode, listener. Um, and Brad, do you wanna say what kind of the motivation behind that was, is?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, this is, uh, it almost goes without saying, this is a tribute to Rob Reiner, who, as we all know, we sadly lost him last last year. He was such a gift to the film and the television industry that brought us joy for so many years. And he was kind of an idol of mine since I was knee-high to a bow weevil.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I didn't know that.

Brad Shreve:
And when he played Mike Stivic, he's actually— I ended up working in a political campaign, I think at the age of 13 or 14, because of the inspiration he gave me as Meathead.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, wow. And that's great.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yeah. And so he means a lot to me in that sense. And so when we talked about him, like, this is an excellent thing to do.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. You know, he not only was a gift to filmmaking, a gift to television, he was a gift, I believe, as a person. He was a calm voice of sanity and reason in a sometimes very stormy political climate. And the fact that we lost him and we lost him and his wife, Michelle, in such a horrific sad way. I don't mean it as a joke, but it is kind of inconceivable to me. He's no longer with us. But what's wonderful thing is his films still are, his body of work, and what an incredible body of work. And listener, when Brad and I were talking about doing this, and I knew immediately what the film I wanted to talk about was going to be.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, it's not too big of a stretch, but I said to Brad, you know, you pick the second one. And I didn't hint. I didn't hint what I wanted him to do because I wanted to pick within our guidelines. And I'm so happy that you picked the one that you picked, Brad, because I got to be honest with you, I haven't seen— I guess we should say what we're talking about. Brad chose— what'd you choose, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
I chose The Princess Bride.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. And I chose, of course, naturally, When Harry Met Sally. I mean, come on, like I wasn't going to choose that. Um, but, um, I hadn't seen The Princess Bride in at least 25 years. And one of the reasons I haven't seen it is I can never get past the ROUSs. Oh my God. When they're in the fire swamp, even though they are ridiculously silly, I mean, that's how I am with rodents. So rodents of unusual sizes really freak me out.

Tony Maietta:
And the first time I remember watching it was on VHS. I turned it off. I'm like, oh my God, I can't watch this. Now I look at it, it's kind of silly, but they still freak me the fuck out. I'll tell you right now. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
You know, if we didn't choose Harry Met Sally, we'd probably been locked up.

Tony Maietta:
And exactly.

Brad Shreve:
My initial reaction was to go towards Stand By Me. One, because it, it is so dramatically different than When Harry Met Sally.

Tony Maietta:
Mm-hmm.

Brad Shreve:
And because I just, it's a film that I absolutely love and adore. Uh, the reason I decided not to go that route is one, even though I, I absolutely love the film, I have seen it 10 billion times. And not that long ago. And I'm like, no, I need a fresh thing here going. Plus we already did a Rob Reiner Stephen King thing with Misery.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
So I felt like we should go a different route.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
So I chose Princess Bride. It's going to shock you. I chose Princess Bride because I've heard it for so many, many years. And this is one I have not watched.

Tony Maietta:
Wow. So we're both kind of coming at it with, with fresh eyes.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Yours a little more fresh than mine. That's fantastic.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, it's one of those that, you know, I kept hearing about it and it was never really on my radar and I, it was never, I never had a positive or negative perception of it. I just, there were so many other movies on my list, it just was always down there. So, um, that's why it's never, never popped up for me.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I think it's, it's amazing to me because if people don't know, you know, when The Princess Bride was released in 1987, it did okay. It was kind of mixed commercially and box office was, eh, because 20th Century Fox, the studio that released it, really didn't know how to market it. Because is it a swashbuckler? Is it a romance? Is it a comedy? Is it a satire? It's all these things. They didn't know how to market it. It wasn't until it came to home video that it became this really a phenomenon to the point where it had, there are so many catchphrases in this. There are so many touchstones for so many people. Watching. I just gave you a bunch of them.

Tony Maietta:
The Cliffs of Insanity, the Holocaust Cloak, the ROUSs, the Shrieking Eels. I forgot to mention the Shrieking Eels. Inconceivable. And of course, my personal favorite, because I love him so much, is Mr. Manny Patinkin and his, hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. He's just so sweet when he says that.

Brad Shreve:
Hello.

Tony Maietta:
He says it all the time. But this has so many, many, many, many wonderful, wonderful people in it. Directed by Rob Reiner, written by William Goldman, based on his book, The Princess Bride: S. Morgenstern's Classic Tale of True Love and High Adventure, the good parts version. And what's so great about William Goldman's book, The Princess Bride, is it's presented like it's an abridged book, a bridge version of this very, very long, long, kind of like T.S. White and King Arthur and the whole Sword in the Stone thing. Yeah. So it's like it's this big, long volumes and volumes of stories, and this is the condensed version, which isn't true.

Tony Maietta:
This is all there is. It's this book. And he positioned that book and That's why this, even from the get-go then, this film kind of takes on that kind of satiric kind of winking, smirky kind of attitude where this is not, don't believe anything at face value here, folks. This is all a fantasy, a fractured fairy tale of a new era, basically, I think.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. It reminds me a lot of, oh, this is a really bad, but The Horatio Hornblower series, which is a long series that is too long. And again, it's cutting into the good parts instead of all the stuff in between, cutting straight to the good parts. And let's have a little fun while we're at it in the process is what it comes down to.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's really, it really is. It's in, and they're absolutely right where they didn't know how to market it because it is what it's doing is, and I think Rob Reiner said this, he said they were walking a very fine line of paying homage to the great swashbucklers of Errol Flynn. Of Douglas Fairbanks and satirizing them just, but with heart, with love, with affection. And that's what it is. But it really is a blend of these incredible genres of fantasy, of adventure, of comedy, of romance. I mean, you have Billy Crystal as Miracle Max, like he's Mel Brooks' 2000-year-old man, but he's playing him like Mel Brooks would play him. In fact, They were talking about maybe Mel Brooks doing it.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Um, you know, in the middle of this, and where's this guy from the Bronx or from Brooklyn, um, who's suddenly in this movie that takes place somewhere in some fantasy land of knights and armor. Uh, it's just, it's so funny. The anachronisms are hysterically funny in this movie.

Brad Shreve:
And you know, I don't know if they would have as big of a problem, uh, marking it today. I think audiences are a little more sophisticated that they kind of get when when things cross genres. And I don't think it's because they're more intelligent, it's just this is more common nowadays. This is— this was pretty—

Tony Maietta:
yeah, we're much more— we're much more used to it. We are. We said this when we talked about, you know, the only person who was kind of doing things like this was Mel Brooks.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
You know, and, and now of course we have Airplane, we have Austin Powers, we have— and it's because of films like this and because of Mel Brooks and his films that these things are much more acceptable. And I think it's one of the reasons why this film became such an phenomenon in home video and why it has such a huge cult status is because we get it. We're in on the meta. We are in on the anachronisms because that's the way we've been conditioned because of films like this. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Cause I, if I know what the take was on this film, but if I understand it did not do well overseas, at least originally it didn't do like gangbusters in the US and Canada, but I don't think it did anything overseas.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, no, it grossed, I think it was like the budget was like $30 million and it grossed $16. I'm sorry, reverse that. Scratch that. What is what I want to say? Reverse that. It was a $16 million budget and it grossed about $30 million. So tiny, tiny infinitesimal profit.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. When we get to the Harry Met Sally numbers, it was two different universes there. But I was surprised. I don't wanna get into the, the actual numbers on Harry Met Sally. But I was actually shocked when Rotten Tomatoes, which, you know, you can question the audience score, but the, the critic score, which is a, an average, Princess Bride is higher than When Harry Met Sally.

Tony Maietta:
Really?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And the audience score is as well. I was like, what?

Tony Maietta:
Well, I think we'll get to that. There are, there are parts of—

Brad Shreve:
it's quite surprising—

Tony Maietta:
there are parts of our latter film that may not age well. Maybe that's one of the reasons, but I don't feel that way, obviously.

Brad Shreve:
But who knows?

Tony Maietta:
Princess Bride. Now, so this Since this is your choice, do you feel comfortable giving a bare-bones synopsis of what this story is about?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. I'm trying to think if I want to give my synopsis. I'll give you the first synopsis that I wrote, which is a grandfather by the wonderful Peter Falk reads a classic adventure romance to his sick grandson about a farm girl who loses her true love. When he gets pulled away and he gets involved in kidnappings and pirates and sword fights and miracles. And in the end, true love wins out with a lot of silly humor in between.

Tony Maietta:
Lots of silly humor, lots of daring do, as they say in the swashbucklers. It really is, you know, Cary Elwes. Okay. Cary Elwes. Let's talk about the cast. So we've got Cary Elwes as Wesley. Aka the Dread Pirate Roberts, aka Fonboy, aka the Man in Black, aka the Man in Black. We've got introducing Robin Wright as Buttercup, who is the titular character, The Princess Bride.

Tony Maietta:
We have the wonderful Mandy Patinkin as Indio Montoya, Chris Sarandon as Prince Humperdinck, Christopher Guest as Count Tyrone Rugen, Wallace Shaw as Vincini the Sicilian. They always have to say the Sicilian. Andre the Giant as Fezzik. Brad just mentioned we have Peter Falk as the grandfather. We have a very young pre-Wonder Years Fred Savage as the grandson that's being told this story.

Brad Shreve:
We have Peter, and you know, he reminded me of why he was so big. He's most adorable kid ever. Uh, he is. Yeah. I remember him from, um, oh, what was the, the very first movie he did?

Tony Maietta:
Oh, not The Wonder Years. I remember him from The Wonder Years.

Brad Shreve:
No, there was a movie he did before The Wonder Years. The Boy Who Could Fly.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, of course.

Brad Shreve:
That was the first time I'd ever seen it.

Tony Maietta:
Of course.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Anyway, I, I cut in because—

Tony Maietta:
that's all right. Just a couple more. We have Peter Cook as the impressive clergyman who has a very, very bad siblings problem, and it's hysterical. And of course, finally, last but never, never ever least, Carol Kane as Valerie and Billy Crystal as her husband, Miracle Max. And that's, that's our cast. So with this cast, you kind of have an idea. All right. This is going to be a lot of fun.

Tony Maietta:
This is not going to be your straight romantic action adventure. There's definitely going to be some humor here.

Brad Shreve:
And I, before we get into our discussion of our likes and dislikes in the film, I'm going to toss it right out there. My number one thing that really pissed me off in this film.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
To finally see once again the love, lovable Carol Kane, hysterical Carol Kane. And she was only on there for like 30 seconds. I'm like, she was what?

Tony Maietta:
And absolutely unrecognizable.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. So, so funny.

Tony Maietta:
So good to see her again.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, she is.

Tony Maietta:
So I'm not a witch, I'm your wife. Yeah. She's, she's, she's so funny. Um, so yes, as we said, this book was written by William Goldman. Who we talked about in Misery, William Goldman, a mythic screenwriter. He had won 2 Oscars by this time for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and All the President's Men. And this was his favorite book, favorite piece of work he ever, ever made. And he was very, very protective of it.

Tony Maietta:
And this film went through a lot. And I mean, think about it. This book was written in '73 and this movie is from '87. So it went through about 20 years of production. Nightmares.

Brad Shreve:
Wow.

Tony Maietta:
It's crazy. It's crazy because nobody really knew. They knew they wanted to make this, but they weren't really sure how to make it. And some of the people who had attempted to adapt this book include none other than François Truffaut, Robert Redford, Norman Jewison couldn't do it. At one point, Christopher Reeve was attached to it and he wanted to play Wesley, which I think would have been wonderful. And the only reason that Reiner was able to get a grasp on this is because he had just had a tremendous hit with This Is Spinal Tap, his first film, his first mockumentary, which kind of has that same kind of satiric tongue-in-cheek method. And he was actually able to get funding because nobody wanted to give him money for this because like, this has been tried. People can't crack this nut.

Tony Maietta:
He got money from— who do you suppose he got money from to do this? He got money from his former employer and his old pal Norman Lear. So Norman Lear helped this get made. Um, and it had William Goldman's blessing because at one point William Goldman was so frustrated with the machinations with trying to get this thing made that he bought the rights back from 20th Century Fox and said, forget it, I'm taking, I'm taking control of this. And then he sold them back again. But did you hear any of the stories about William Goldman on the set? When they were making this film and how he was so protective of this property that he would actually ruin takes because he would be so vocal in his— he was so vociferous in his feelings about things. In fact, I think the very first scene shot in the fire swamp, they're filming and it's the first day and Rob Reiner says cut because he keeps hearing noises in his headphones. He said, who is that? Who is that? What's that noise? And someone went around the stage and they saw William Goldman was actually praying. He was on his knees praying out loud, ruining the take.

Tony Maietta:
And Rob's like, you can't do that, Goldman, get off the set. You can't do that. So this meant a great deal to everybody, everybody involved. And this was Rob Reiner's favorite book too. It was another, a passion project for him as well. It's important. Wow.

Brad Shreve:
It makes me want to read the book.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah. And I think, well, I think the film translates the book so well. I mean, I just think it's, I think it's, I think it's wonderful. So anyway, do you want to talk about scenes? You want to talk about this cast? How do you want to approach this, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Well, I want to start by giving you my description of the film.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
I give, I give the second description. I wrote this first one and then I wrote a second one.

Tony Maietta:
I always like your descriptions better, so go ahead.

Brad Shreve:
Because I knew, well, this is the one I really spent more time on and I'm prepared.

Tony Maietta:
Okay.

Brad Shreve:
This is a fantasy movie. This movie is a fantasy set in a make-believe land in medieval times that really is a series of skits woven together by this story of love and and romance, and each skit fails worse than the last. And you can't figure out whether it's supposed to be action-packed or funny, and you really don't care.

Tony Maietta:
You don't care. You just go along for the ride with this movie.

Brad Shreve:
No, I'm saying I didn't care. Not in a nice way.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, wait a minute. What? You didn't care? You didn't like this movie? Oh, Tony.

Brad Shreve:
And I wanted— this is when you said, which movie do you want to start with? It's because I wanted to start on a high— I wanted to end on a high note. I want to end on a high note because I sat there waiting. Okay, when does this pick up? When does this really— I found it boring. I found it boring. I can't even say that's bad. It was just boring to me. I was bored to tears.

Tony Maietta:
See, I remember I watched this and I went, it's over already? Wait a minute, what? It's over already because I don't know, I find it such a fun, wonderful, charming ride because it has all these funny little things because we have Miracle Max, because we have the fire swamp and the rodents of an unusual size. I mean, to me, it's just like one really cool thing after the other and how they're going to get out of these, how Wesley the Dread Pirate, the man in black is going to get back to Buttercup and get to his true love. And I don't know, I found it so charming. I'm kind of surprised that you have that take on it, Brad. And you know, George Stevens didn't even direct this.

Brad Shreve:
I was actually rather surprised too, because I could see why, where it was supposed to be funny. It just wasn't clicking with me. And I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh, I can see this was supposed to be funny and it's just not doing it for me. I can't say why. Well, it's just, and like, no, I think some scenes ran too long. I've told you before, I hate swashbuckling. I hate sword fights. I find them—

Tony Maietta:
Oh my God, this has the longest, the biggest sword fight in film history.

Brad Shreve:
And all I could think is, my God, is this ever going to end? I hate them on television. I hate them in movies. I think I know that they spent ages putting together that sword fight because Rob Reiner wanted the actors in it. And I know they had to stage it. I know it took forever. And that's my problem with it. They always go too long. I don't find the skill very interesting.

Brad Shreve:
I don't find watching them real or on television or movies interesting. Interesting. I hate sword fights.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you know, they try— actually, go ahead.

Brad Shreve:
That, that is one big run, but I actually— it wasn't just that. I found other scenes again that I just felt— and I'm trying to think of them. The— I, I'll have to— as we go along, I'll be able to think others. They just like— I'm like, oh, well, we please move on.

Tony Maietta:
This is going to be an interesting season premiere.

Brad Shreve:
And I know people are hating me right now. I try not to be the crumudgeon on this show, but sometimes I can't help it. When we— I will, I hopefully will redeem myself when we talk about Harry Met Sally.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, so there's a little teaser. See, I thought it'd be the other way around, but we'll wait. Hold that. We'll get to when Harry Met Sally. We'll get to when Harry Met Sally. Well, I obviously don't feel this way. I find this film charming. Um, I think it's just, I think it's a wonderful ride.

Tony Maietta:
I love this cast. I love this cast. Cary Elwes, uh, is, is just the most charming, handsome. I mean, he was such a, Douglas Fairbanks. He actually looks more like Douglas Fairbanks Jr. He was such a wonderful character in this. He actually did Robin Hood: Men in Tights. Did you notice that? And did you know that?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I did know that. And I gotta say, the lighting and the shots, you just looked at him and you're just like, he's gorgeous. Because, you know, they just, he's just, and it's not just gorgeous. He's just radiates this, this— I don't know, you're just drawn to him. You can't help but be drawn to— they did a beautiful job with that.

Tony Maietta:
No, he's one of just—

Brad Shreve:
it's not just the camera, it's his facial reactions. They were perfect.

Tony Maietta:
They were dead-eye. He's so charming. He's so suave. He's so beautiful. And matched, in my opinion, completely by Robin Wright. You know, this was Robin Wright's first film. She was doing a soap. She was on Santa Barbara.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, the one that was forgotten very quickly.

Tony Maietta:
And she And she's not, you know, Robin Wright is American. She's not British. They, they, she did a, she does an impeccable British dialect. And that's because even, even Cary Elwes said that. He said that her, her British dialect is impeccable because her stepfather was British. So she, and it's very hard for, and as an actor, it's very hard to do a British dialect convincingly. And she does a, she does an incredible job. She does an incredible job.

Tony Maietta:
As I said before, I love, you didn't like Mandy as Indio Montoya. Hello, my name And Gil Montoya. No, you kill my father.

Brad Shreve:
Prepare to die. Oh, I, I did. I like these characters and their roles. I just felt like they weren't given enough to work with.

Tony Maietta:
See that, and that, that swashbuckling scene, you're right. Rob Reiner wanted the actors to do it. No stunt people. There's only, the only time the stunt people are in it is when they do the flips. But this is really Mandy Patinkin and Cary Elwes. I'm blown away by the skill in that. I think Mandy trained for like 6 months. And Cary for 4 months in this.

Tony Maietta:
And Cary Elwes broke his toe.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
During production. And he still— but that was before they filmed the sword fight. Incredible. Incredible to me. Can you imagine how much pain he was in? Jesus.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Yes. And, and I— people were really dedicated to this film. I think all the actors knew they were doing something special. I— there, that is something. It definitely is something special. I just don't think it worked for me. Um, I'm not gonna say it's a bad movie.

Brad Shreve:
It just wasn't my movie. All right, well, hey, and I usually like this kind of film. I like the kind of film that kind of goes into, you know, I'm a big Mel Brooks fan.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you don't like Swashbucklers. You just said, you know, you know, I don't like Swashbucklers. So you picked—

Brad Shreve:
and that may be why I kind of put it off.

Tony Maietta:
So you picked the Swashbuckler. Um, what do you think of Wallace, Wallace Shawn. Inconceivable.

Brad Shreve:
You know, I can't help but watch every time I see, uh, Wallace Shawn, I think of My Dinner with Andre. And the reason I do is there are very few people who could have pulled off My Dinner with Andre, and I love that film. But Wallace Shawn is always Wallace Shawn, and I, that's not a negative with him. He, I think with that voice, he can't be anyone else.

Tony Maietta:
He's so funny. And he worked.

Brad Shreve:
He did work really well. He, I found his character somewhat annoying, but he's also great.

Tony Maietta:
It's so funny to think of him as this gangster, this henchman.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
And you know, it's very funny because they talk about how unsure he was, how insecure he was during filming. Apparently every day he'd say, I'm going to get fired. I'm going to get fired. Rob's going to fire me. He was so insecure because his agent said to him at one point, and agents don't do this to actors, said to him, you know, you weren't the first choice to play this part. The first choice was Danny DeVito. And when you see Fezzik, you kind of see, okay, that makes sense. I'm not Fezzik, Vizzini.

Tony Maietta:
It kind of makes sense. Danny DeVito, Italian, Sicilian, same thing. And so Wallace Shawn said that it's not his performance. He's doing Danny DeVito and he's also doing Rob Reiner doing Danny DeVito doing this character because he would always ask Rob Reiner, how would you do it? How would you do it? Tell me how to do it. So he feels very, he always felt very insecure when they're doing it, when they were doing this. And I just think it's funny because to me it's part of the fun of the character. He's such a ridiculous character that you're like, you know, he's such a genius. He's the brains, you know, in this whole thing.

Tony Maietta:
And it's just, he's ridiculously funny in my opinion.

Brad Shreve:
He probably was my favorite character in this film because he is, him as a villain was just hysterical. Because it just, it didn't work. And that's why it worked.

Tony Maietta:
It doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't. It's so funny.

Brad Shreve:
It doesn't make sense that it would work.

Tony Maietta:
What do you think of Andre the Giant?

Brad Shreve:
How about that? You know, I, I started to say I've met Andre the Giant, and that would be, um, kind of a bad thing to say because it's not like we, we chatted and had friends. When I worked in the hotel industry, I, I, uh, chatted with him very briefly, and he went into the bar. And I will tell you, this movie does not do justice how big that man is.

Tony Maietta:
It's kind of inconceivable.

Brad Shreve:
It is inconceivable. There's a scene, I think towards the end, when he reaches down to Pannikin or one of the other stars and his hand is right there in front of his face. And I'm like, okay, that is the first time they are really giving people an idea just how huge this man is. I wish I used to know the numbers. I can't tell you anymore, but he went into the bar and he had an unbelievable number of hamburgers and beers that would've made people drop over dead. It was all the talk in the hotel. But that all being said, I'm bringing all that up because I was actually amazed how well he did.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, he did. He did pretty well. I was hard, it was, he was kind of hard to understand sometimes, but to be fair, English is not his first language. So, Let's give him a break. But he did a wonderful job considering everything he was going through when he was making this film, because he was very, very ill. He's what? How tall is he? 7? He's 7 feet tall, something like 7 feet tall, 500 pounds. And the thing is, is that he— it's funny that you talk about the food and the drink, because that's what they talk about when they're talking about making this film, is they would be amazed. He would come to the set and, how was your night? Oh, it was okay, boss.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I had about a case and a half of cognac and 5 bottles of brandy. You're okay, a little tipsy maybe. It's just like it would kill a normal person. But he was, yes, he was a giant. He was Andre the Giant. But he was also in incredible pain because he suffered from, what he suffered from was this condition called acromegaly. I hope I said that right.

Brad Shreve:
I'm glad I practiced it for a while and I'm like, I'm never, I'm gonna screw it up. So I'm glad you said it.

Tony Maietta:
So it's acromegaly, which is a hormonal condition in which the pituitary gland produces too much growth hormone. So in children it's called giant, giantism. And then as an adult, it's this condition. And not only did it do a real number on his internal organs, but hello, he was a wrestler. You know, people were constantly jumping on him or he was throwing people. So by the time it came, he came to make this film, he was in real physical pain. In fact, he had, I don't know if you knew this, he's a giant in this film and he's supposed to be carrying people. He carries them up the Cliffs of Insanity.

Tony Maietta:
You know, he takes that rope and he goes up the Cliffs of Insanity with them on his back. He couldn't, he had no upper body strength. He was so weak.

Brad Shreve:
I could tell that from certain shots like Princess Buttercup. He reached over to pick her up and then next thing you knew you saw him putting her down.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And because I don't think I would have watched it if I was just watching the movie to watch, but as you know, we're sitting here looking deep into the film, I caught that several times. Like, there's a reason why. Yeah, I didn't know the reason, but that makes sense to me.

Tony Maietta:
In the scene where he, where he has a conversation with Wesley and Wesley's on his back, uh, Cary Elwes had to be on a special scaffolding Um, so there was no weight on Andre, so they could do that scene. And when you look at it and you realize the machinations that, that Rob Reiner went through, I mean, he really fought to have Andre in this. He was also considering Arnold, uh, to do it, but by the time this film finally came to being into production, Arnold was a big star, and so he really couldn't get Arnold. So he really was happy to have Andre, but the health problems this guy had, the poor guy, I mean, just just torture, torture to get through this.

Brad Shreve:
And physically, I think he was a better choice. Um, Schwarzenegger is a big guy. Andre the Giant is a giant.

Tony Maietta:
He is, he is a literal giant. Don't you love that shot when you see them for the first time and they're standing in a row and it's Andre the Giant and Mandy and Wallace Shawn? Now we know Wallace is small, diminutive, but Mandy's not a short guy. I think Mandy's probably like 6 feet tall. And then Andre, And Mandy looks like a midget next to Andre the Giant. He's just so big. And you're right, there's that one scene where he goes to find Mandy and bring him back after Mandy's been defeated, and he puts his hand on his face and you realize how huge, huge this guy is.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yep.

Rob Reiner:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Wallace Shawn's actually shorter than I am, so, uh, he's 5'2" and I won't give my height. I'll just say my height is the same as Michael J. Fox.

Tony Maietta:
So that's our cast. And, and Brad was right when he talked about the fact that basically it's a story of, um, the farm boy, um, going to find his true love, Princess Buttercup, before she gets married to the evil Chris Sarandon, who plays King Humperdinck. Um, and they go through all these machinations. They go through, they climb the Cliffs of Insanity, which is actually a real, it's, it's a cliffside in Ireland. And they have swashbuckling scenes. They go through the fire swamp. At one point, Wesley, the farm boy, is dead, but he's not really dead. He's only mostly dead.

Tony Maietta:
And they go to Miracle Max, who brings him mostly back to life, but he has no use of his legs. So he has to rely on Andre. In the end, of course, they all end up happily riding off on their four white horses. But I just think I personally find it funny. I find a lot of fun and funny. So were there any scenes that you were, you particularly liked more than others at this point?

Brad Shreve:
You know, it, I liked particular actors and characters and I liked scenes, but I, I would say if I had to pick one, it was the Swamp of Fire, which is kind of silly why I would like that so much, but I liked Carrie Elwes and Robin Wright's, um, chemistry. So well together.

Tony Maietta:
Charming.

Brad Shreve:
That I felt like that really worked for me. And I thought that was a silly scene that I really did enjoy because it was just ludicrous. And to me, I'm like, I get that. I wish more of the room, more of the movie was this way. And I know it was supposed to be, but that scene I really enjoyed. And Cary always, I gotta say, I'm really surprised as fucking charming as he he is, I'm really surprised he did not have a much bigger career. We've said this about other actors. He hasn't had a bad career in any way, shape, or form.

Brad Shreve:
Uh, most actors would kill to have his career, but it wasn't, it's not nearly as big as I would've thought after this film.

Tony Maietta:
Well, remember this film was also not a hit.

Brad Shreve:
Well, you're, you know what, you're right there. You're right there.

Tony Maietta:
So, I mean, I mean, he had, I think he's had a, I think he had a perfectly respectable career.

Brad Shreve:
Um, I, well, I didn't mean to, I wasn't knocking that at all. I made clear I wasn't knocking him.

Tony Maietta:
But I think that he, um, he's so charming. Yeah, it is, it is kind of hard to believe that. I mean, especially when you think about Robin Wright and the phenomenal career Robin Wright has had. Um, that scene in the fire swamp though, I gotta tell you, and I talked about it before, it is really hard for me to get by the ROUSs, the rodents of unusual size, because yes, what they are, and it's, this is the thing, is this '86, '87? So no CGI, people. These are actual costumes that small people, little people are literally inside making work. So when the ROUS jumps on Wesley and they have that duel, there's a person inside there. And apparently they couldn't even see. I mean, the costumes were created so much that these people who were inside trying to make these ROUSs work, couldn't even see.

Tony Maietta:
And it's funny. I mean, you don't, not for a second do you believe it's a real, thank God you don't believe it's a real, you know, huge rodent. Because I mean, they remind me of rodents I used to see in New York in the '90s. It's like, oh my God, I don't want to see this. So it's really hard for me to get by, get that. But I do love the fire swamp too. I love the way, and this was Cary Elwes's idea. He decided that when Princess Buttercup goes through the sand pit, and goes down the, like, quicksand and disappears.

Tony Maietta:
Originally he was supposed to jump in, and he said, well, there's nothing really very heroic about that. So it was his idea for him to do that incredible dive headfirst into the sand, and they had to test it out. That's fun. I don't— I couldn't do that. That's amazing. I mean, I don't think his foot was broken at this point, but that's an incredible stunt he does, and you're just like, wow. I mean, these kinds of things are just phenomenal to me. I love that scene.

Tony Maietta:
I think that scene is so much fun. My other favorite scene, of course, is Miracle Max. I mean, you know, you get this Borscht Belt comic bit right in the middle of this swashbuckler, and Billy Crystal is just so damn funny in that scene.

Brad Shreve:
Going back to the swamp scene, you hit on a couple of things I really liked, was I loved the, uh, whether R-O-U-S. Yes, basically the giant rats.

Tony Maietta:
Rodents of unusual size.

Brad Shreve:
The fact that there was no attempt to make them look real. They looked real enough to make it funny because, you know, they could have done a much better job and they didn't. And to me, that makes it perfect. I love when they do that. Yeah. And the jumping into the pit when she gets sunk into the ground. The fact that he grabs the vine and jumps in after her, and there's that— you're waiting, and then you're waiting.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And then you're waiting, and it felt like it was going to go too long, but it actually was perfect that they went too long.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, because you don't know what's going to happen.

Brad Shreve:
I think that was a really well-done scene.

Tony Maietta:
It was a great scene.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, you're like, okay, he's supposed to pop up and save her, and you're like, maybe he's not going to. No, because it goes so excessively long.

Tony Maietta:
And I love that.

Brad Shreve:
That one's worked for me.

Tony Maietta:
I love that he was like, I'm gonna do it. This is, this is the way it should be. And that he took that risk and then he did it. I mean, it's incredible. It's incredible to me. I love, um, as I said, I love Miracle Max. Um, I think it's such a great little, little, uh, foray into, as I said, Borscht Belt, little comedy skit. And do you know that there weren't, there weren't a lot of injuries other than Cary was breaking his toe.

Tony Maietta:
When he was on Andre the Giant's ATV, which does not happen in the film. But, you know, there were some injuries in this scene. You know, Mandy Patinkin said that he bruised one of his ribs to keep from laughing at Billy Crystal in that scene. And you can see why. And Rob Reiner had to leave the set because he was laughing so hard. And they had to put a dummy in place of Cary Elwes because Cary Elwes couldn't, you know, because he's supposed to be mostly dead, so he shouldn't be laughing. And it's so, it's just, he's so, it's so ridiculous. It's so funny.

Tony Maietta:
It's so out there. I think that's some reasons I love it so much.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. You know, I love anything to do with, um, Billy Crystal and Rob Reiner. Their, their decades-long friendship is just very endearing to me because they seem like a perfect character and you could tell their love for each other. Mm-hmm. Uh, and they, they worked well together.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I think it's, it's just, and, and, uh, Billy Crystal only worked 2 days. Same with, obviously the same with Carol Kane, because they have these little cameos, but I think they're golden. They're golden. It's such a fun, for me, it's such a fun, fun movie. Is there anything else you want to say about any scenes in the film?

Brad Shreve:
I'm glad I watched it. I can't say anything particularly about scenes. I'm glad I watched it. And That's about all I can say. I mean, there were, there were bits and pieces that I enjoyed, but, um, generally as a whole, you weren't crazy about it as a whole. I, no, it just, it, it just didn't do it for me. I may try it again in a couple of years after I got past it. Maybe, maybe it was my mood, but I don't think so.

Tony Maietta:
Well, as, as we said, uh, you know, audiences kind of agreed with Brad when it was first released. Also, it was up against, do you know another film that opened the same weekend as The Princess Bride, which might've had something to do with it? A little movie called Fatal Attraction opened the same week in 1987.

Brad Shreve:
So, well, I will say I'm grateful we didn't do Fatal Attraction.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that wouldn't have nothing to do with Rob Reiner. That's why.

Brad Shreve:
No, but you know, that is one of those movies that, you know, it was huge, huge. And I remember thinking it was a great film. And then years later you watch it and like, what the hell were we thinking?

Tony Maietta:
I don't know.

Brad Shreve:
It's awful. But anyway, we're going off on a different tangent. Yeah. No, no, no. That could go on for ages.

Tony Maietta:
But, um, as we said, it was not a big hit. It grossed $30 million on a budget of $16 million, but Fox head Barry Diller told Rob that he thought the film was going to be a success over time rather than in its initial release, kind of like a little film called The Wizard of Oz. And It's maybe not the same level as The Wizard of Oz, but my God, what an incredibly prescient statement to make because that's exactly true. You have conventions about The Princess Bride. You have reunion after reunion of this cast. These lines where people are quoting. Cary Elwes said some girl came up to him one time and said, "I want you to see the back of my neck." She lifted her hair up and she had "As you wish" tattooed on the back of her neck. Now that's a bit extreme, but still it shows you the, the passion people have for this film.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And, and, you know, I am not gonna fault anybody that loves this film because obviously I'm in the minority. The numbers on Rotten Tomatoes, the critic score on this is 93%. Audience score is 94%. The fact that those are neck and neck, uh, the fact that the audience, I, I take a lot of, uh, I do respect the critic numbers. Um, so when you get an audience score that matches it, I'm, I'm just like, wow, I'm clearly in the minority and I'm glad this makes a lot of people happy.

Tony Maietta:
So in line with the legacy of this film, let me ask you if you know about this. This full, this film has a Deadpool tie. Do you know the Deadpool tie with, uh, The Princess Bride?

Brad Shreve:
Well, you've Deadpool 2. I should know all things Deadpool. Um, you should. Deadpool 2 or 3? Deadpool? No, I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
So, and I'm not a Deadpool person, so I'm just telling you what this is. Some, what I read is that in 2018, Fred Savage reprised his role as the grandson.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
In the PG-13. Brad's shaking his head now. He knows. 13 version of Deadpool 2. You, do you know, you know the story?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, but actually he wasn't in Deadpool 2. It was a, uh, kind of a promotional piece they did.

Tony Maietta:
Ah, okay.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, that's, that's why I didn't make it. But yes, I do remember that now.

Tony Maietta:
So what happens?

Brad Shreve:
Uh, I don't remember. I just remember, um, Deadpool saying something like, shut up, Fred Savage, or, or something like that. It was, it was very cute. I didn't know that that was supposed to be a take on this film because I had not seen this film.

Tony Maietta:
Well, apparently— oh, well, there you go.

Brad Shreve:
You know, you had, you had Ryan Reynolds, so course it was funny anyway. But, um, well, apparently no, I didn't—

Tony Maietta:
it was, um, he played— he reprised his role as the grandson. And in, in Deadpool, the PG-13 version of Deadpool 2, so maybe that's why you also didn't see— you catch it— entitled Once Upon a Deadpool. And Deadpool took the role of the narrator, and he was reading Deadpool 2's story to him at bedtime, but skipping over it just That's exactly how The Princess Bride is, which I think is kind of cute.

Brad Shreve:
Now that makes sense because I've never seen Once Upon a Deadpool. Obviously I saw the promos for that version of the film, so I didn't realize that that was the case.

Tony Maietta:
Um, and one final thing about the legacy that I think is really kind of sweet. So on September 13th, 2020, during the pandemic, most of the original cast members took part in a virtual live read-through of the script. It was called The Princess Bride Reunion to support the Democratic Party of Wisconsin.

Brad Shreve:
Yay!

Tony Maietta:
And the people that returned were Lewis, Wright, Sarandon, Patinkin, Guest, Sean, Crystal, and Kane, and with additional performances by Rob Reiner as the grandfather. Whoopi Goldberg was in it. But here's what I think is so is so touching. So Reiner approved of the project and it even briefly stepped in to play the grandfather, as I said, and it also features the final performance of his father, of Carl Reiner playing the grandfather in the last scene to his son. And I think that is such a sweet, sweet summing up of this movie that I liked. I thought was very sweet and very Wonderful.

Brad Shreve:
Yep. That really is sweet.

Tony Maietta:
And of course there's always talks about, because this movie is such a cult hit, there are talks of remakes. There are talks of remakes. And if you can imagine, this is my favorite one. The reaction via social media to a remake was very, very negative. In fact, the fans said that a remake would not only be a bad idea, it would be Inconceivable.

Brad Shreve:
Conceivable.

Tony Maietta:
All right, so that's The Princess Bride. That's The Princess Bride. Now on to our second film, our second Rob Reiner film, When Harry Met Sally. Yes, from Columbia in 1989.

Rob Reiner:
What we initially called Scenes from a Friendship, you know, it was like the Bergman Scenes from a Marriage. We just wanted to have I thought, you know, these two people talking to each other about their, you know, men and women and relationships and see where we went. And what came out of it was When Harry Met Sally. That was based on my experiences as a single person after being married for 10 years and being thrown back into the dating world. And for 10 years I was making a complete and utter mess of my personal life. And I thought, well, this has got to be the basis of something here. There's got to be a movie in here somewhere. What makes it an interesting romantic comedy, in my opinion, is that the— in most romantic comedies, there are impediments, things that keep the lovers from getting together, whether it's in-laws or religion, or one of the characters is with somebody else and there's an affair and they— the timing is off.

Rob Reiner:
Or whatever, or there's a mistaken identity, some kind of MacGuffin that keeps them apart. In this, the only two things, the only things that keep Harry and Sally apart are Harry and Sally. Well, Billy, we were best friends, you know, so it was easy to work with him. He added a tremendous amount to the film. He came along after we had gone through many, many drafts, and he added, you know, some of the funniest moments in the movie were jokes that Billy added when he came on board. The funniest line in the movie, which is, uh, "I'll have what she's having," which was a line my mother says in the deli when Meg Ryan fakes the orgasm— that was the line Billy came up with.

Tony Maietta:
So since this is my movie, I want to give a short one-sentence synopsis of this film, and this is from Rob Reiner. 2 friends decide not to have sex because it ruins your friendship. They then have sex and it ruins the friendship. Doesn't that sum up this movie perfectly?

Brad Shreve:
It does. You know, it's funny, that scene where they start kissing before they have sex, you just cringe. You're like, no, you guys, don't ruin it. Don't ruin it. And it doesn't matter how many times— I love this film, and it doesn't matter how many times I watch it, that particular moment I tighten up. I'm like, no.

Tony Maietta:
Well, according to Rob Reiner, that was the reaction of all the men in the audience when they— they're like, no, don't do it, don't do it. And then it does indeed, it does indeed ruin the, the friendship, but for bigger things. But you did, you know, you can actually blame this movie on Laverne and Shirley. Did you know that, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Uh, well, I know that Rob and Penny Marshall were married, but beyond that, I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah, because at this time, Rob Reiner was divorced from Penny Marshall and he was trying to figure out how to navigate his life suddenly single as a divorced man. And he kind of, he kind of gave up the whole idea. Of romance. Um, when he— and he was trying to understand why this marriage failed and why, why it was that, that men and women just didn't seem to speak the same language. And that's really kind of the genesis, the nut of When Harry Met Sally is what Rob Reiner was trying to figure out with, uh, his marriage breaking up to Penny Marshall and then meeting his wife Michelle on the set in giving a whole new meaning to this movie. So it's really kind of interesting. It's like the stages of Rob Reiner's romantic life is in When Harry Met Sally and the stages of Nora Ephron's life.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, it's the cynicism he had with the breakup and then the romance at the end from making something work.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you know what I really find fascinating about this film? I think the most important thing we need to say, first of all, When Harry Met Sally, yes, uh, directed by Rob Reiner, produced by Andy Scheinman and Nora Ephron, and written by the late great genius herself, Nora Ephron. Now I adore Nora Ephron. I think if I can talk Brad into it, we're gonna talk about another Nora Ephron movie this season. So stay tuned, people.

Brad Shreve:
Time for a production meeting.

Tony Maietta:
But it really is what's so amazing to me about When Harry Met Sally, and I think this is almost part of its legacy, is, is it is a true, true romantic comedy. Everything is removed from this film except Harry and Sally's attitudes towards love, towards friendship, towards sex, towards each other. If you think about it, it's like a romantic comedy and it's distilled to its very essence because think about it, we know nothing about their backgrounds. We never meet anybody else in their family. We don't even really know what they do for a living. We hear they're writers. Meg is a— Sally's a writer. Rob is a sport.

Tony Maietta:
It's— but we're never really sure because it doesn't matter. All that matters is these two people and their feelings and their attitudes about life, about love, about sex, and about each other. And I think that's one of the real reasons why this film sustains itself. Now, we might have a little argument about that. I feel it's a classic. I feel it's timeless. And I think that's one of the reasons why. Because it's pure romantic comedy to its uttermost, distilled to its essence.

Tony Maietta:
What do you think?

Brad Shreve:
I agree with you. And, uh, you know, it's funny because in a way it's almost hard for me to say this is a romantic comedy because I mean, you know where the whole story's going from beginning. I mean, just the name right away, you know, from the very first second that this is gonna be a couple that gets together in the end, but the romance end Part of it is really at the very end. And Graham, when they start to see the friendship, you can tell it's gonna be more than a friendship. But for the most part, you're just watching two interesting people for almost 90 minutes and you love them both or hate them both, whichever you choose. But either way, you care what's going on enough that Enough that you just want to keep watching what's going on with them.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, they're interesting people. They're— well, it's the chemistry. Their chemistry.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Between the two people. And it's funny because—

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I'm just, I'm going to just tell you that I think this movie is nearly perfect.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, wow.

Brad Shreve:
I sat here, I'm like, okay, what can I say negative about this movie? And it is almost impossible because there's so much to me that shouldn't work and it does.

Tony Maietta:
It does. And then for a very, for a number of reasons, the incredible script. I mean, there's a reason why Nora Ephron is Nora Ephron. I mean, the ideas, the words, the situations, just brilliant, brilliant woman. The chemistry between these two people who initially did not get along, you know, there was a little tension between Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan at the beginning because of the fact that Billy Crystal was Rob Reiner's best friend. And so Meg was feeling a little unseen, a little bit like, why am I here? But they came to an understanding and they became very close friends actually. And you can see that chemistry. It works so well with the characters because the characters don't like each other in the beginning.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
So it kind of makes sense that these actors didn't. Um, but what I think is so incredible about this movie is, and we've had so many of these since, Nora Ephron alone did 3 or 4 more romantic comedies in New York. This is the first one. I mean, Woody Allen, yes, taking Woody Allen outta the equation, this is the first movie love letter to New York. This is the first— when you think about that, this was 10 years before Sex and the City, 5 years before Friends. Although Friends doesn't take the New York in Friends, it's ludicrous. It's Burbank. But it's really— you can follow the line down from all of these romantic comedies, which are also valentines to New York City and the romance of New York, right back to When Harry Met Sally.

Tony Maietta:
That scene in Central Park in the autumn with Harry Connick Jr. singing on this. I mean, It's so romantic. It's so beautiful. And it all started with this. This is really the granddaddy of the resurgence of romantic comedies in film in 1989.

Brad Shreve:
As I watched this film, I just was wowed by the filmography because the background was so—

Tony Maietta:
You mean the cinematography? Cinematography.

Brad Shreve:
The cinem— yes, thank you. The cinematography, the background was so carefully chosen for every single scene. They were absolutely gorgeous without taking away from our two main characters. That was so well done. The scene where Sally is putting the letters into the mailbox. I had to freeze the, I had to freeze the television at that moment. I think I ran downstairs to get water or something. I had to get something.

Brad Shreve:
I froze it. And when I came back, I looked at it. I'm like, that picture frozen is stunning. Absolutely stunning. The colors, the stance. It's just, I was wowed. I'm like, this is a romantic comedy and it, it looks like it's supposed to be something much grander than that.

Tony Maietta:
We're so used to it now. We're so used to it because of movies like When Harry Met Sally. Mm-hmm. You know, and also be for many of the Woody Allen movies, but the Woody Allen movies can be darker. Yeah. You know, um, When Harry Met Sally is pure romantic comedy. It's a romance and it's comedy and that's, it's just pure. Um, I love so many things about this movie.

Tony Maietta:
The cast. Absolutely. And what do you suppose one of my very favorite things about this cast is, Brad? Think about this cast. Who's in this cast that I just—

Brad Shreve:
Oh, well, well, gosh, what I say, Carrie. Oh, first of all, she's gorgeous.

Tony Maietta:
I was gonna say looking so gorgeous. This was what, 11 years after Star Wars, 12 years after Star Wars. She just, she got outta rehab. So she was not doing any substances as far as we know. She had written Postcards from the Edge. She was about to make the film. She is like at her peak Carrie Fisher-ness. When I think of Carrie Fisher, this is a Carrie Fisher I think of, that wonderful smoky deadpan delivery, her voice.

Tony Maietta:
He's never going to leave his wife. No, he's never going to leave her.

Brad Shreve:
Is he?

Tony Maietta:
No, I know you're right. You're right. I know you're right. Funny.

Brad Shreve:
She was so perfect. I absolutely loved every moment she was at. Well, you know how I feel about Carrie.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
I worship the woman.

Tony Maietta:
And this was the beginning of her best friend era. You know, when she would play the best friends.

Brad Shreve:
That's what I was gonna bring up. I wish I could find that quote that she made when she was stuck in that best friend era. Do you remember it?

Tony Maietta:
You, you, you talk, I think people should go back and listen to our Postcards from the Edge episode because you, you say it in that and I can't think of it. Top of my head.

Brad Shreve:
So I'm going to paraphrase. Basically, she said that she reached a point there where she was only playing— she only had— her only roles were playing the best friend. And I'm okay with that because there's only so many roles for space princesses.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, exactly. That was it. Exactly. That's it. Exactly. It's okay. I love this cat. I love Carrie in this.

Tony Maietta:
I— whenever I see Carrie, I go, yes, Carrie's in this, because I just She is the ultimate Carrie Fisher, in my opinion. Dry, urbane, funny.

Brad Shreve:
And I guess Bruno Kirby. I sat here and I watched Bruno Kirby, who I always enjoy.

Tony Maietta:
Adorable.

Brad Shreve:
And you may know this more than I, cuz I, I know about the friendship between Rob and Billy, and I just pictured Bruno is probably in there. I pictured them all going out every week. Yeah. And I know they were all baseball fans. I was kind of surprised that that one scene is a football scene, cuz I know that Rob and and Billy were baseball fans, and I just picture them all going to the game all the time.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, he was a good friend. They were all good friends. They were all good buddies. You know, he put— Rob Reiner put people in this film that he wanted to work with, to have in this film. It's kind of interesting. So just a little bit about the backstory of this and how this came about. Nora had written— Nora Ephron had written Silkwood. It was her first film that she wrote the screenplay for, '85.

Tony Maietta:
Love that movie. Love that screenplay. Heartburn also, but Heartburn is based on one of her books. So they approached her, they had a meeting at the Russian Tea Room and they pitched her an idea of this story and she turned them down. And Rob Reiner said he learned a very interesting lesson. He said, you do not pitch your idea at the beginning of a meal because if they say no, then you have to get through the rest of the meal. Knowing this person shot you down. But fortunately, in this case, it worked because Nora was like, all right, what else are we going to talk about? Any other ideas? And Rob kind of related his personal struggles of what he was going through as a newly divorced man and trying to figure out the difference between men and women and why are men and women always bumping up against each other.

Tony Maietta:
And the light bulb went off in Nora's head. And they went away, they came back and met again, and Rob pitched the idea of two people who don't have sex because it ruins friendships, and then they have sex and it ruins the friendship. And she went off from that, and what she basically did was just interviewed people. She didn't want to just write. Rob went off and made Stand By Me, and he went off and made Princess Bride. And while he was doing that, she was just talking to people, interviewing people, talking to Rob, talking to Andrew Scheiman, his friend and producer. About their experiences as men. And she created this script.

Tony Maietta:
And some of the early titles for it were Boy Meets Girl, How They Met, How We Met, Harry, This Is Sally. And they finally had a contest and they settled on the line, When Harry Met Sally, as long as it had the ellipses after it, as long as it had the three dots, because that To Rob Reiner said that meant the story was going to continue. This is the beginning of something, not the end of something. I love that. And he also came up with the idea, what I love about this, another thing I love about this movie are the little interstitial interviews. I love, love, love it. It's such a wonderful, wonderful little, it's not really a conceit, but it's a wonderful little way to get us passages in time. They're little breaks in the story and they're so sweet and they're so adorable.

Tony Maietta:
These people are so cute and they're all based on real stories. They're all based on real stories.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, are they? Because the first time I heard that they were actors, I was furious. I was like, I can't believe they pulled that over on us. And, and, but you know, I watched it. Yeah, it's, it's wonderful. And I watched it, um, wasn't this time that there was a point where I finally watched it again. I'm like, they're so well done. You can clearly tell because you're analyzing again. You can clearly tell this was acted.

Brad Shreve:
This wasn't, uh, these weren't your everyday person off the cuff. So it should have been obvious. And at that point I accepted this was well done. So I think it was just that shock. Well, I think most people probably thought in the beginning it was real.

Tony Maietta:
They're so good. I mean, they are.

Brad Shreve:
And that's exactly what it came down to.

Tony Maietta:
Did he cast the hell out of those roles?

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
And you might not be surprised to know this, or maybe you are, they originally did start it with with real people. Thank you.

Brad Shreve:
It was not, it was not smooth enough.

Tony Maietta:
And it did not work. Yeah. There's a reason why people hire actors.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, exactly.

Tony Maietta:
They know what they're doing. Normal people don't necessarily have the, I mean, if some people do and you're, that's a needle in a haystack, have the dramatic urgency, have the particular little lift you need to give. But they're all true stories. One of the stories is actually true about when they meet at the summer camp. That's how Nora Ephron's parents met. So they're real stories. They're based on real stories, but they are actors. Yeah, they are.

Tony Maietta:
And it was Rob's idea at the very end to have Harry and Sally be the last couple, which I think just wraps this up in a bow. And that was all improvised, by the way, between those two.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, was it?

Tony Maietta:
Um, it wraps it up in the bow, but you were saying earlier, we go back, you know, the very first ending of this. In the very first draft, Harry and Sally do not get together.

Brad Shreve:
I knew that. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
This is because Nora Ephron and Rob Reiner felt that was the more realistic ending, was that these two people are just too different. They could never ever get together. Do you know what happened to change that?

Brad Shreve:
Uh, Rob fell in love.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, that's a story they like to tell.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, there's more to it.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, okay. And they say Rob fell in love on the set. Rob met his wife Michelle, his future wife Michelle, on the set. And suddenly everything was lollipops and roses and isn't the world, isn't it romantic? And life's, you know, life's beautiful. But they were too far into production for that to really be true. I mean, you know, they could have been shooting without an ending, but I really doubt that. From what I understand is, is the studio said, and, and Nora and Rob realize that in order for this to be commercial, in order for it to be exactly everything you said it was when we first start talking about it, these two people have to end up together. We go through all this only to have them not end up together.

Tony Maietta:
No, they have to end up together. That's the romantic of the romantic comedy part. That's what we want, right?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And you know what, you're probably— when you explain to me that way, the whole he fell in love and that's why they changed the ending ending does sound ridiculous. I'm going to stick with it because I like it better. But realistically, yeah, I get it. That's probably, you know, I personally don't mind unhappy endings simply because I like to be surprised. So I don't like going into every movie knowing it's like, I tell people when I write my mystery novels, I'm like, I'm not going to guarantee you that this is going to be a happy ending because I want you to be surprised. So I do, but I would be, if this had not ended happy, I would been probably like— I would have probably been like the rest of the world and like, what the fuck?

Tony Maietta:
It's the romance of a romantic comedy. I mean, that's the way it is. It's not Heartburn. It's not Nora's film before this. It's When Harry Met Sally. So those are what those three dots are. Dot, dot, dot. Lived happily ever after.

Tony Maietta:
Maybe. Some of the people that, even though Rob was best friends with Billy Crystal, some of the people that actually were approached to play Harry were Tom Hanks, Richard Dreyfuss, Michael Keaton, and Albert Brooks. And they all turned it down. Albert Brooks said because it was too close to Woody Allen. And you can kind of see that. I mean, when I watch it, the beginning times are like, it's Woody Allen, but it's okay. I forgive it. I forgive it totally.

Tony Maietta:
And for Sally, uh, they, they thought about Helen Hunt. They thought about Meg Tilly. They thought about Elizabeth McGovern. Oddly enough, Debra Winger, because this is when Debra Winger was still really hot. Uh, and finally they thought of Meg Ryan because did you know Meg had auditioned for Buttercup in The Princess Bride and for the role in The Sweetest Thing, and she didn't get either of them, but he remembered her.

Brad Shreve:
So, oh, that's interesting. No, to actresses out there, I can see all the males that you mentioned in that role except, uh, one of them I can't remember, but I can see them all. I can see why they would, how they would all be a little bit different, but they would go well. The women you listed, I don't see it nearly as much. Maybe Helen Hunt. I'm a big Helen Hunt fan, but even her, you know, it's hard to say when one actor plays a character, it's so hard to say like, oh, that would've never worked. And that's not true. It'd just been different.

Tony Maietta:
So, I mean, Meg Ryan became the romantic comedy heroine of the ages. I mean, think about this after that, you know, You've Got Mail and, uh, Sleepless in Seattle. And I mean, even things, Kate and Leopold, I mean, So we always think of, we think of her in that way because of this movie, because this movie positioned her there. But did you know she was also up for Steel Magnolias? She was gonna play the Julia Roberts part in Steel Magnolias, but she chose this, allowing Julia Roberts to become America's other sweetheart.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yeah. I adore Meg Ryan.

Tony Maietta:
So, so yes, I, she's so wonderful in this, but here's something interesting. Did you know originally when it was written, Harry, the part of Harry was actually Harry Albright and it was Sally Burns and Sally was going to be Jewish and Harry was going to be the goy. However, when Rob was really serious about Elizabeth McGovern playing this part, there's like, there's no way she can play a Jewish girl. We have to switch it. So they switched it and made it Harry Burns and Sally Albright. Um, which to me makes more sense. I mean, when you think about their names, Burns is such a great name for him, you know, and Albright, all is bright, you know, with Meg Ryan. Uh, they kept it that way.

Tony Maietta:
But I mean, these characters are really based on, when you really think about it, they're really based on Rob Reiner and Nora Ephron. I mean, the qualities, doesn't this seem like Rob Reiner to you? Don't you see like Billy Crystal is basically stepping in for Rob Reiner in this movie?

Brad Shreve:
Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, Yes, I can. I don't know Nora Ephron that well, uh, I mean beyond her work.

Tony Maietta:
I, but yes, I can definitely see what you're saying with, with, um, just the witty, well, not, not to a T, I mean just the wittiness of it. Mm-hmm. Just the offhanded stuff about it. The traits mostly.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
The way Sally orders food.

Brad Shreve:
Mm-hmm.

Tony Maietta:
In a restaurant is how Nor— Rob Reiner experienced that with Nora Ephron in a restaurant. And he goes, that has to go in the mo— that has to go in the movie. Um, she always— that sexual fantasy that Mae has about the Faceless Man ripping her clothes off, and it never changes. He goes, it never changes? And he goes, well, sometimes I'm wearing something different. The day of the week underwear, that's all Nora Ephron. So they took real aspects of their life and they put them in these characters. And I think that's another reason why it works, because these are real people. These are real.

Tony Maietta:
You can see these people and other people. I think.

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. Do you think so? Should we get into the likability of these characters?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
Because it's one of the reasons why I think this movie is incredible. Because everybody talks about how unlikable Harry is in the beginning. But you know, Sally's not very likable either. They're both— I agree. Neither of them are people I would want to hang out with.

Tony Maietta:
And let alone on a 5-hour, 6-hour car ride from Chicago.

Brad Shreve:
Oh my God. 8-hour car ride. Either a ride with Either of them would just be an—

Tony Maietta:
No, what am I talking about? 8 hours.

Brad Shreve:
It'd be a nightmare.

Tony Maietta:
12 hours from Chicago to New York.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
It would be a nightmare. It would be a nightmare.

Brad Shreve:
And so you have these two people and they soften. And in the end of the movie, you love them. But it's not this dramatic change in personality. It's just a softening of who they were.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And it's done so brilliantly that if it had been in anyone else's hands, it wouldn't have worked. It would have been either a dramatic change that would have been unrealistic, or you would have, you know, they would have been so different, or you would have seen these changes being too in-your-face. But you don't even really notice them. Yeah. You do not know that. You just, you realize that you don't like all you, you have two people in the beginning, you don't like them at the end of the movie, you love these two people and you don't, unless you really think about it, you don't know why. And you don't even realize it happened.

Tony Maietta:
Because they grow, because they change.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
And that's another brilliant—

Brad Shreve:
and they grow realistically.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly. That's another brilliant thing about this screenplay. Think about it. So many romantic comedies happen in a weekend, you know, or happen in a week or two. People fall in love and are immediately together. No, this took time with these people. They had to grow. The, the period in the beginning of the movie is periods of 5 years.

Tony Maietta:
Movie starts in '77, and then it's 5 years later. and then they meet again 5 years later, and then they can finally get to the point where they can tolerate each other so they can start hanging out, and they begin to soften, and they begin to change. And that's what's so wonderful. Another reason why I think, yes, of course they have to end up together at the end, because they've changed. They've affected each other.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
You know, they've, they've had this effect on each other and changed each other to the point where they are kind of now perfect for each other. Whereas in the beginning of the movie, they were the worst match you could imagine.

Brad Shreve:
They were the worst match. Nobody would want these two people And again, what also helped, what helped it was it wasn't, um, like, what's that movie? It's not a great movie. Um, Ryan Reynolds and, um, The Proposal. If you've ever seen The Proposal, she's, she's the devil boss and Sandra Bullock. Yeah, Sandra Bullock. And, uh, at the end of the movie, over a weekend, they turn from two people that hate each other to madly in love. And you didn't have that here. These are two people.

Brad Shreve:
Who, what really made it realistic is because they became friends. And that's when things happened, because you could see where these two people would never have been a relationship, but you could see their circumstances threw them together as friends. And it was through friendship. They got to know each other and helped each other grow. And that is why this movie works. Like I said, there's so much I can say about this movie. I just think it's a masterpiece.

Tony Maietta:
You get little glimpses of their changing feelings, like the Pictionary scene, which I love. Another one of my favorite scenes, which was all improvised because who would ever write baby fish mouth? That was a Bruno Kirby improvisation. Of course it was.

Brad Shreve:
I believe it.

Tony Maietta:
And you see, you know, they're both with dates. Rob Reiner's date was actually Rob— Rob Reiner's date. See, I call him Rob Reiner. Harry's date, Billy Crystal's date was actually Rob Reiner's daughter. His stepdaughter with Penny Marshall.

Brad Shreve:
I knew she was in it, but I didn't know who she was.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, Tracy. And he's like, I have to kiss— I've watched this girl grow up. She's playing my girl. Icky, but okay. But you see, they're more concerned with— they're not talking about the people they're with. They're talking about the person the other person's with. You think that they're really right? What's up with her? What's up with him? So you see it changing. You see them start to grow.

Tony Maietta:
And again, the wonderful scene in the restaurant, um, but when they try to set up Carrie Fisher with Carrie Fisher with Harry or Marie with Harry, and they try to set up Bruno Kirby's character with Meg Ryan. And what happens is, is that, that Carrie Fisher and Bruno Kirby go for each other and they're like, oh, we're stuck alone again, which is such a wonderful scene. Um, but you get that you're like, they're not quite there yet where they're right for each other, but they're becoming more and more right for each other. And I think that's what's so wonderful about the progression of that relationship. It's so real.

Brad Shreve:
That mad dash into the taxi between—

Tony Maietta:
it's the best—

Brad Shreve:
Bruno and Carrie never ceases to make me laugh.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I love that scene. I love that scene. I love the very first scene, uh, with the, with the girls, with the ladies who lunch at, uh, the boathouse. Central Park and they're talking about potential dates for Meg Ryan because she just broke up with Joe, with her fiancé. And she's not ready. She's not ready. And Carrie Fisher pulls out that Rolodex. And like, who carries a Rolodex with them? It's so funny.

Tony Maietta:
It's just, it's so great, but it's She says something along the lines, how would you like to go through the rest of your life knowing that your husband is married to another woman? It's just like, it's the writing is so sharp and fun. I think though, you know, we have to talk about the scene, the big scene in Katz's Deli. What do you remember the first time you saw that scene? And you're like, what the hell is going on here?

Brad Shreve:
I don't think I could, I can remember the first time I've seen it because every time I seen it, I, every time I watch it, it's just as golden and just as hysterical. I do want to jump ahead because I know you're gonna say something and I wanna bring it up because I just learned it for the first time.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
After I watched this movie, I said to Maurice, I said, you know what? The most, one of the most iconic lines in movie history. We don't even know who that woman was. So I had to look it up.

Tony Maietta:
You didn't know who it was?

Brad Shreve:
I had no clue who that was. I'm like, that woman, I bet she had a good career afterwards and nobody knows who she is. And who in the world doesn't remember that I'll have what she's having line?

Tony Maietta:
So tell, yeah, so tell people, tell people, will you tell people what's the line? No, you go ahead. Tell the people what's the line.

Brad Shreve:
The line was, I'll have what she's having. And the woman's name. Oh, it's, is it Estelle?

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Rob Reiner's mother.

Tony Maietta:
Rob Reiner's mother says the most, one of the most, it's in, you know, you don't, we all know how we all feel about AFI, but it's in the AFI 100 Greatest Movie Lines from Films. I'll have what she's having after Sally fakes her orgasm and the entire deli is just silent. And the waiter walks up to Estelle Reiner and Estelle Reiner looks up and says, I'll have what she's having. And it's delivered so perfectly. And did you know that line was A impro— it was Billy Crystal's line. He said, that's the topper. Can you— I mean, what a genius this guy is. No, no shade to Nora Ephron, but she recognized that's a great line.

Tony Maietta:
So, and Rob said, Rob Reiner said, and I know the perfect woman to deliver it, my mother. But then he had second thoughts when they were on the set filming it and he's like, I can't believe I'm filming a scene in which a woman's having an orgasm in front of my mother. So it made them feel really, really bad. So the story behind the, the whole orgasm scene is, is that, um, they felt there was too much Harry and not enough Sally. They wanted more Sally stuff. Mm-hmm. And they're thinking about, and so the entire time Nora Ephron is interviewing Andrew and Rob about things that men do that women may not know, Rob turned the tables and said, all right, you tell us something that women do that men may not know. And Nora Ephron said, women fake orgasms.

Tony Maietta:
And they were stunned. And Rob Reiner said, well, not with me they don't. And Nora looked at him like, yeah. And he said, let's find out. So they went on to the offices of Castle Rock and they got to this, the pool of women who were working there. And he asked them, do women fake orgasms? And they all said at one time in their life they did. So that's That's where that came out. They're like, we have to have this in the film because men just don't believe this.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
So anyway, actually, so it was written in there, but actually doing the orgasm, like performing the orgasm was Meg Ryan's idea. And it was also Meg Ryan's idea that it should be in some incongruous place like Katz's Deli, which is what makes it all the more hysterical because you're like, this woman is doing this. It comes out of nowhere in the middle of Katz's Sally.

Brad Shreve:
And yeah, it's one of the most iconic scenes ever. And that line is so iconic. But again, we go back to why this, why it worked, because it wasn't Sally at the beginning. We didn't have the really softer Sally at the end, but she'd already softened enough at this point that it was believable. If it had been a little bit earlier in the film, it wouldn't have been believable to me.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah. Plus we know if, if she had done this in the beginning of the film, we'd be like, who's this nut job? I can't even have an orgasm.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
But she's been through, she knows who Harry is. She's been through the ringer with him and his comments and his out of the, out of, you know, out of line comments and ballpark stuff that it's like, oh, this makes perfect sense. She's just giving it back to him. It's like tennis. Yeah. You know what? She's lobbying it back to him. Here's something for you, buddy. Cuz I gotta always gotta put up with your shit.

Tony Maietta:
Here's something for you to put up with. And the fact that she goes so, and you know, when they filmed it, Meg Ryan, It's funny, Meg Ryan couldn't go there. Even though she suggested it, she was too nervous. She was too shy to actually give it all she needed to give it. So Rob Reiner had to go in and do it in front of his mother and show her how he wanted it. And then she was able to do it. And then I'll Have What She's Having is just the perfect, perfect capper.

Brad Shreve:
You know what? She was Carl Reiner's wife. And Rob Reiner's mother, I can't see that she would ever have had a problem with it.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's funny because he said to her, Ma, you know, it's a pretty crazy scene. Uh, your line might end up on the cutting room floor. We're not sure. And she goes, that's all right. I'm just happy to spend a day with my son. Oh, isn't that sweet? You love that woman. She's great though. She was a singer.

Tony Maietta:
She was quite a talented woman. But yeah. She really didn't do a lot. She did a couple more cameos in films, but she's on the AFI list of 100 right next to Brando. Right after I Could Have Been a Contender and Humphrey Bogart, where Beginning of a Beautiful Friendship. She's up there. So I mean, what a thing to have Estelle Reiner right up there between Brando and Bogart. I think it's fantastic.

Brad Shreve:
That is awesome. That is awesome. Okay, we got it. We got another thing we have to talk about. Yeah, one of the— oh my, it has to be one of the— it had to have been one of the most difficult scenes to ever have done. And you just watch it and you're like in awe. The phone call scene.

Tony Maietta:
Oh my God, right? I love that scene.

Brad Shreve:
It was— I sat there and I'm like, how many takes did they do to do this? And I actually looked up, they said it took 61 takes is the number I got. I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. The back and forth, the timing that was—

Brad Shreve:
yeah, the timing, it was so well done. It was even believable.

Tony Maietta:
Well, Rob Reiner said you had— of course you had— so what happens in the scene is, is that Carrie Fisher and Bruno Kirby are now married and they're in bed and they have two separate phones. And Carrie Fisher's phone rings and Bruno Kirby's phone rings. And this is right after Harry and Sally sleep together. And so Carrie Fisher picks up the phone and it's Meg Ryan, Sally, and Bruno Kirby picks up his phone and it's Harry. Billy Crystal. And they have this conversation and it's so well timed. Nobody talks over each other. They're all having their separate conversations with Sally and with Harry, but it's timed so you don't miss a word.

Tony Maietta:
It's brilliantly, brilliantly directed, that scene. I love that scene. Apparently they had Carrie Fisher and Bruno Kirby in the set, and then over on the side they had the two other sets. And they were, the phones were connected so they could actually hear it. But even in that case, it's still an incredibly complex scene to film.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. I sat there and I wondered if that was the way they did it. I was doing like, did they do it separately and piece it together? Would that be easier than if they did it the way you just described? Either way, it's really, and there were even subtle little things like, No, I'm thinking of a different scene, but they, um, it was, it's astonishing what probably went into that little scene.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's, it's, it's this scene. This movie is full of those little gems. I love, I love the scene at the Natural History Museum, the way it's shot. It's just the scene. Every scene in the park is, is gorgeous. The New Year's Eve scene, both of them are so wonderful. And the New Year's Eve scene has probably my favorite one of my very, very favorite lines possibly ever in films. And it's when they're— it's at the end of the movie.

Tony Maietta:
It's not the last line, but it's the end of the movie. And Harry, they've had the fight, they've slept together, the friendship is ruined, and Harry's chasing after her. He runs back to the New Year's Eve party and they're standing there and he gives Meg Ryan all of these reasons why he loves her. And she's like, you're just here because you feel guilty. You're just here because you don't want to feel uncomfortable. And he goes, no, I'm here because I came here tonight because when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible. I love that line. That is one of the— I get chills saying it.

Tony Maietta:
It is one of the best lines. You want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible. And what's so funny, what's so wonderful about it is it's such a great it's a Harry line. You imagine Harry saying that, but it's also so brilliantly witty cuz it's Nora Ephron. I love, love, love that. That's almost up there with me with when Carrie Fisher says to Bruno Kirby, cuz Bruno Kirby has that wagon wheel table that he wants to get rid, he wants to keep and she wants to get rid of it cuz it's so hideous. And he goes, I have good taste. And Carrie Fisher says, everyone thinks they have good taste and a sense of humor.

Tony Maietta:
They can't all possibly have both. It's just like, it's this little witty, incisive things that are just, this movie is chock full of them. So we have two movies with incredibly quotable lines in both of them.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And I'm gonna make a confession about here with the monologue that Billy Crystal does at the end of the movie and the line that you just gave. And you think I'm going negative here, but I'm not. The other day when I watched it again, I cried just like I have every time.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, that's so sweet. It is very touching. It's very moving. It's a beautiful line because if you notice, she also— also, and then Meg says, you know, see, Harry, you say things like that and makes it impossible for me to hate you. And I hate you, Harry. I really hate you. And meanwhile, they're coming in to kiss and she keeps saying, I hate you. And I love the fact that this movie Really ends on, I hate you, not I love you.

Tony Maietta:
And it just illustrates these two characters. To them, I hate you means I love you. That's exactly what she's saying at that moment.

Brad Shreve:
Yep. Any other movie, it would've been, you know, I've always felt like I loved you, but I've always felt like I hated you, but in reality I always loved you. And you know, the typical shtick. And again, they didn't go there and I it was all the better for it.

Tony Maietta:
It was, it was. So this film opened, they were very smart. Columbia was very smart. They released it in the summertime. And so it's like brilliant kind of counter-programming because you think a movie like this would be in the fall, you know, air quotes, a woman's picture or whatever. Because also in the theaters at this time, Turner and Hooch, Indiana Jones: The Last Crusade, Weekend at Bernie's, Lethal Weapon 2. So this gave audiences an alternative. It was very smart and they also opened it very small and they want just select cities and they just wanted the word of mouth to generate interest before they opened it wide.

Tony Maietta:
And that's exactly what happened. You said earlier what the stats were. Do you remember?

Brad Shreve:
Uh, the budget was around $16 million and their worldwide gross was $193 million.

Tony Maietta:
Isn't that—

Brad Shreve:
I mean, good God, it sounds like a good investment. Wow.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, is it any wonder why Rob Reiner could pretty much rule the world after this? Yeah. Why he could do any movie he wanted to make and why Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal became such huge stars. I mean, it's— and Nora Ephron also, this led directly to Nora Ephron then taking over the directing helm and directing Sleepless in Seattle and directing, uh, uh, You've Got Mail, and just giving us this incred— so this film begat this incredible body of work from all of these artists. And it's just so wonderful that it began with this wonderful gem of a movie, which, as I said, to me, the ultimate romantic comedy, period.

Brad Shreve:
I agree 1,000%.

Tony Maietta:
Well, those were our— that was our tribute to Rob Reiner and two of his iconic films. You may not be crazy about The Princess Bride, Brad, but you can't deny it's an iconic film.

Brad Shreve:
I mean, I do not deny that.

Tony Maietta:
You think about this is a, this man started out, could have had a career in his father's shadow. His father created The Dick Van Dyke Show, for God's sake, and was a giant in comedy all the way back to, you know, early television with Sid Caesar. And the fact that he not only stepped out of his father's shadow with All in the Family, but then had this phenomenal, phenomenal film career as a director and a producer. I mean, this is what makes this loss all the more tragic is because, you know, it's like Billy Wilder said about Ernst Lubitsch, you know, it's sad there's no more Ernst Lubitsch. What's even sadder, there's no more Ernst Lubitsch films. And that's how I feel about Rob Reiner. You know, it's sad Rob Reiner, but even sadder is there's no more Rob Reiner films. So we have to hold onto these ones close and keep 'em close to us.

Tony Maietta:
And when the world gets cold.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And you know, it says a lot about Rob Reiner that he, one, he could have been very lost in his father's shadow, or number two, he could have been a mega person like he was, but he would always been referred to as Carl Reiner's son. Who's doing this? And he very much stood out on his own as an individual.

Tony Maietta:
Um, I don't think anybody's doing that.

Brad Shreve:
And they both had a huge— no, none, not at all. And, uh, that says a lot about what an incredible man this was.

Tony Maietta:
So God bless you, Mr. Reiner. God bless you. God bless you, Michelle Reiner. Uh, you're with the angels now. Thank you for these incredible films you've given us. Um, and that we could talk about today. So is there anything you wanna say about the podcast, Brad, or anything at all? Now we're back for our third year?

Brad Shreve:
Well, my gosh, it's been a while. I'm going to have to think back to my usual speech. If you have been listening to our show for a while, thank you so much. We are so glad you're back. And then we hope that you're glad we're back. In fact, if you've come back to our premiere here, then it means you probably like this show. So if you haven't rated and reviewed, please do so on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get this podcast. If you're new to the show, we're not going to ask you to review it because, you know, it's new to you.

Brad Shreve:
But go ahead and subscribe so you don't miss a single upcoming episode, and then you're going to get around and review us. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
And during our hiatus, I think we picked up some, some people who— I mean, I was very, very encouraged. So thank you, everybody, for sticking with us as we took our little break for a few months. We have a really exciting season coming up. We're doing it. Brad's in Spain. I'm in Los Angeles, at least for the time being. And we've got some good fun movies, some fun guests lined up. Uh, so yeah, it should be a lot of fun, our third season.

Tony Maietta:
I am very excited about it, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
I am too. We got a good lineup coming up and I think everybody else will agree.

Tony Maietta:
Well then, I guess that leaves only one thing left to say, but I don't want to say it, so let's not say goodbye. Let's just say inconceivable.

Brad Shreve:
No, let's say goodbye.

Tony Maietta:
You're right, you're right, I know you're right. Goodbye, everybody.