Tony Maietta:
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Tony, we have a special guest as we talk about the women today.

Tony Maietta:
We do. Is it a woman, please?

Brad Shreve:
No, it's not a woman, but however, it is 137-year-old man. So you need to talk slowly. He'll be a little slower. But we have the one, the only, Maurice Chevalier with us.

Tony Maietta:
Maurice. Maurice. Welcome.

Maurice Chevalier:
Bonjour.

Brad Shreve:
And Maurice. I would have just kind of glided over the fact that your name is Maurice Chevalier since, you know, it used to be that old women would get excited. Now nobody even knows who Marie Chevalier is.

Maurice Chevalier:
True.

Brad Shreve:
However, given that this podcast we deal with classic Hollywood, I figured people probably would know the famous Maurice Chefalier.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I think so.

Brad Shreve:
And folks, Maurice is my husband. And I can tell you this. He cannot sing, nor can he dance shaking his head.

Maurice Chevalier:
Not in the same manner that Maurice Chevalier did.

Brad Shreve:
Now, the scary thing is his parents did name him after the man himself, the actor. And Maurice was born. The scary part as he was born almost exactly nine months after the Marie Chevalier died.

Tony Maietta:
So freaky.

Brad Shreve:
Which is a little spooky.

Tony Maietta:
Very freaky.

Maurice Chevalier:
Shall I add to that one, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Maurice Chevalier:
Okay. I was also born one day after Marie Chevalier's birthday. His birthday was on the 12th of September. Mine is on the 13th of September.

Tony Maietta:
This is so weird. This is so crazy. Can't. I can't. I can't. And this movie does not have Maurice Chevalier in it. I guess we should say that right off the bat.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, yes. But the reason why we have Maurice on is Maurice has. He's always thrown out movies to me that you and Tony need to do this and you and Tony need to do that, and sometimes they're great and sometimes they're like. I'm like, sounds like a great movie. But it doesn't really fit our format, especially if it's. Since it wasn't before 1990. But this is a movie that I really enjoyed. And I'm like, okay, we're finally going to do it.

Brad Shreve:
And so we decided to do it for our holiday episode. Be on our final episode of this season, which is season number two. We are going to come back. We kind of kept saying this is the final episode. Last week we hinted that it was the final episode of the season. I want to make sure people understand this is the final episode of the season.

Tony Maietta:
Of the season. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
We didn't just have the season.

Tony Maietta:
We. We said it. I've been saying now for episodes that you weren't a part of. Mr. I've been saying we got two more and we're done with season two. But coming back for season three, God willing, yeah. The end. This is our season finale of Going Hollywood, season two.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
I only halfway listened because I wasn't on, so I didn't see much point.

Tony Maietta:
And this is episode 37. I counted for me, for you. This is episode what, 17, 18. How many episodes?

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, come on.

Brad Shreve:
I missed, what, three episodes? Four.

Tony Maietta:
What is it anyway, that goes all about. That all goes about saying is that we're going to talk about one of my favorite movies. And thank you, Maurice, for suggesting this, because I never thought that we'd talk about it because I didn't think Brad liked it. But it's from 1939 from MGM. And yes, it is indeed. The women. You have three men talking about a film with not one single man in it. 134.

Maurice Chevalier:
But it's all about the men.

Tony Maietta:
But it's all about the men. It's all about the man. Maurice, you have a really interesting history with the women, and I think that's one of the reasons why you wanted to talk about it. Right. What's your history with the women?

Maurice Chevalier:
Well, a previous boyfriend actually was a director. And we actually. I did the. Locally in. In Los Angeles. And we did the play, revamped the play. It was right around the same time that it came back to Broadway and they did changes to the play. They updated some of the references and what have you in the play for the Broadway edition.

Brad Shreve:
Right.

Maurice Chevalier:
My boyfriend at the time hated, absolutely hated the references that they brought up because they brought up things like the Beatles and Shirley Temple and. Which were not things during the. During the Broadway play. So he actually got a signed copy of the Clare Boothe Luce original script for the play signed, which was awesome. And so we redid that. And he's always been a lover of the movie. It's one of those things. Watching it since I've seen it, I've just been enamored with it.

Maurice Chevalier:
So it's been a lot of fun. I did the artwork for the stage play here locally in Los Angeles, and then the stagehand helping the women get in and out of their costumes. So we had 13 women doing all of the different characters in this play, which has, God, I want to say 50 or 60 characters in it, minimum.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, well. And the film has 134 women in it, you know, so that's. Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. Well, I think that, yeah, it was revived. We're going to talk about that. It was revived in 2000 with Cynthia Nixon playing the Norma Shearer role. It had some interesting people.

Tony Maietta:
It had Jennifer Coolidge in it. It had Kristen Stewart playing the Sylvia role. But of course, my favorite as Countess Delav was none other than a golden girl herself, Rue McClanahan, which I think obviously the Countess of love in the revival was not. She was from the south. In Rue McClanahan's hands, everything's from the South. So that's so interesting. Well, I think I want to say before we start, you know, you two, there's a name for you ladies, but it isn't used in high society outside of a kennel. My favorite.

Tony Maietta:
One of my favorite lines not written by Claire Boothe Luce. P.S. written by Anita Luce. It's easy to confuse them. The screenwriter who came in and adapted Claire Boothe Luce's play, the Women. So that's kind of. That's interesting. She changed a lot of dialogue, too, from the play to the movie.

Tony Maietta:
Did you find that. Did you find that when you were watching the movie, Maurice?

Maurice Chevalier:
For me, yeah. I think Brad also looked. Was looking. Looking some of the stuff up. But, yeah, I knew a lot of the dialogue had changed from the movie. The. There's a lot of different things that had been. Had been changed.

Maurice Chevalier:
Some of the aspects of the film itself, with the focus in the film was slightly different than the play itself.

Brad Shreve:
Right. And that's where I'm gonna jump in. I love this film. But, Tony, you know, I always have a but in there.

Tony Maietta:
Always.

Brad Shreve:
And we kind of hinted that we both have the same but on this film. And it's basically dated in many ways, especially when it comes to women. Though, as we're watching the movie, I'm like, there's no way that this was in the place. There's. And I kept saying that there's no way this was in the play. And I was right. Most of my gut feelings were not in the play or it was definitely changed, I should say. And my favorite line, when I looked it up and looked up, you know what the changes were.

Brad Shreve:
There is a line in the play that Norma Sheer. Mary. That Mary says. I'm gonna say it right now. She says, I've had to swallow my pride, but I'll be damned if I lose my place. That is the movie I want to see.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, well, that's. Yeah, that's certainly. That sure as hell ain't in the 39 movie, that's for sure.

Brad Shreve:
Not this. I love my husband. I'll take him back no matter what the hell he's done to me. No, that is the movie I wanted to See, but doesn't change. I did love this movie. And I do realize it was 1939, the Hays code. They had to change things. And people wanted a woman that they could love and adore, not one that was a little bit cutting and on edge.

Brad Shreve:
So I get it. And that's why I can still enjoy.

Tony Maietta:
I want to say, in addition to Anita Loose writing this screenplay, it was also written by Joseph Breen, the head of the Production Code administration, because of the fact that there's so many changes had to be made. And he actually suggested lines. I mean, this is what. This is. What gets my back up about the Production Code administration is these were not writers. He had no right to go in there and suggest changing lines written by a playwright. But he did it. He made certain changes to the script.

Tony Maietta:
And I feel, frankly, I feel that the script by any Loose is much funnier than the play. I like the play, but I just don't. I don't know. I feel like. I feel like it's also. It was also co written by Jane Murphin, I should say that the screenplay. But, you know, what I want to say also was going to say to people who. Who have difficulty wrapping their minds around this kind of mentality, putting yourself in 1939 to accept what this movie is about in society.

Tony Maietta:
How many of you are addicted to or were addicted to the Real Housewives? Because this is exactly the same thing. This is the Real Housewives of New York in 1939. They even have a countess. There's even a countess in the women. It's exactly what it is. Right. Don't you think that.

Maurice Chevalier:
Well, I mean, Clare Boothe Luce actually wrote this because she was part of high society.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Maurice Chevalier:
And she hated it. So that's why she wrote the play.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's. No, it's an indictment. The play in the film or. An indictment and a satire on these women who. You have nothing better to do but to eat. They're ladies who lunch and they eat themselves for lunch. Basically their own meals.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah, good way of putting it. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
So. So that's what this play is. So people have to realize that when they say, oh, yeah, I mean, it's of its time. Yes, but she's also. It's also a satire of its time and of these women whose concerns are no more than. You know, you're right, Maurice. It's all about the men. The only thing on these women's minds are the men.

Tony Maietta:
That's it.

Maurice Chevalier:
That literally is the tagline of the play.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And, yeah, I Think of the movie, too. It's all about men. Yeah. Nothing but women.

Maurice Chevalier:
It's all about the men. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Should we go over. Okay, so one of the interesting things about this film that I love, actually, and I want to get your take on this, both of you, is the fact that the film opens with the actresses being depicted and their air quotes. Spirit animals, which I love. Anytime I see this movie in an audience, people scream because we're just. You know what I'm saying? So I want to go through the cast and give out their spirit animals. Or what? I'll.

Maurice Chevalier:
This is what I'll do before you do that.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Maurice Chevalier:
Watching this movie with Bradley, he. He's looking at this and going, why? And I'm like, are you kidding me? This is perfect.

Brad Shreve:
No, no, no, no. It's cringy, but I love it. You gotta realize it's suspect. Cringy, but I love.

Tony Maietta:
It is so suspect on so many levels to equate these women with animals. All female animals, by the way. Every single female. Every single animal is a female animal. So, I mean, they were really covering their bases. But let me do this. Let me give the actress's name and the character, and I want you guys to tell me the spirit animal. Okay, so, of course, at the very beginning, we have.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, she's such a pain. Norma Shearer as Mary Haynes. Who. Who's her animal?

Brad Shreve:
A doe.

Maurice Chevalier:
A deer.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. A female deer. Ray, A drop of. No. Yes, it's a deer. Mary Haynes is a deer. A fawn in the forest. My favorite.

Tony Maietta:
Well, not my second favorite. Joan Crawford as Crystal Allen. Do we know what Crystal's. What's.

Maurice Chevalier:
Hold on. She was third in the lineup.

Brad Shreve:
No, she was second.

Tony Maietta:
There's a whole contract thing I was going to go into about the fact that it's coast. Joan Crawford had to have star billing because she was the third of the big three at mgm. So, anyway, so Joan Crawford is indeed next.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
When the credit opens up, it has Norm Mashear and Joan Crawford right next to each other. And then below that, in just slightly smaller font, it says Rose.

Tony Maietta:
You know why that is? Because Norma Shearer had to give permission for Rosalind Russell to get costar billing, and she said yes, only if Ms. Russell's billing is no larger than 50. 50% of my billing in perpetuity. So that's why, even when you see DVDs, to this day, of the women, Rosalind Russell's name is smaller because it's in Norma Shearer's contract. So we had Joan.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, my God, this is. This is like a movie of ego.

Tony Maietta:
That's what I'm saying. Beyond the movie, don't forget Feud and Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? It's the women. That's where the miniseries is. Ryan Murphy. All right, so again, Joan Crawford as Crystal Allen. What is her animal?

Maurice Chevalier:
Cheetah. It's supposed to be a cougar, but.

Tony Maietta:
It looks more like a cheetah, I'll give you that. It's a leopard. It's a leopard. Now we have Ms. Russell, probably my favorite in this film, as Sylvia Fowler. And what is her animal?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, the cat.

Maurice Chevalier:
Hers is a cat. That's right.

Tony Maietta:
But I don't remember what type. It's a black. Okay, black. Black cat.

Maurice Chevalier:
Just a black cat.

Tony Maietta:
Black cat. All right, some of these might be. These are very tricky, so I'll help you out, too. Mary Boland, the fabulous Mary Boland as the Countess de Lave la publicite. Flora, what is hers?

Maurice Chevalier:
She was a.

Brad Shreve:
She was. Oh, I don't remember.

Tony Maietta:
She's a monkey.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, she was the monkey.

Maurice Chevalier:
She was the monkey. Okay. I knew there was a monkey in there.

Brad Shreve:
That was the one I thought was most offensive. Other than the cow.

Tony Maietta:
Well, we'll get to that, Paulette.

Maurice Chevalier:
No, the cow was fitting. But anyway.

Tony Maietta:
Paulette Goddard as Miriam Ahrens. Think about who she was. She was very, very sly as a fox. Yes, she was a fox. Phyllis Pova as Edith Potter is the cow. Because Phyllis Potter is always eating. Edith is always eating. Oh, Edith, you are a boy.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yep.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. And she's always. She asks, excuse me, girls, while I unswallow. I have done swallow. Okay, here's the one. The insufferable Joan Fontaine as Peggy Day. And do we have anybody want to venture a guess on who Peggy's spirit animal is? She's so bad in this movie.

Maurice Chevalier:
She's the lamb because she's the baby of it. Yeah. She was the innocent.

Brad Shreve:
And you actually commented on that, that she's the innocent one, though.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Now here's yours, Brad. Virginia Wheelder as a little Maddie. And what is little Mary's animal?

Brad Shreve:
She is a fawn. She is Baby dear.

Tony Maietta:
We have Lucille Watson as Mrs. Moorhead, Norma's mother, the owl.

Brad Shreve:
The wise one, though I don't think she was really that wise, but she seemed to think she was.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And finally, last but never, ever, ever.

Maurice Chevalier:
Ever least, one of Brad's favorites.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I love her to death.

Tony Maietta:
Margaery Maine as Lucy. She.

Brad Shreve:
She is.

Tony Maietta:
What is Margaery Main?

Brad Shreve:
She is the horse nan with her Big open mouth. And, you know, and actually, when I saw it, I said right away, I need to ask Tony a question. You know, Marjorie is most known for playing Ma Kettle. Was she ever in any kind of role other than was she ever in a glamorous role? I should say.

Tony Maietta:
Have you seen Marjorie Mane? No, of course not. Oh, no, actually, Marjorie Maine and Phyllis Pova were the two. Only two actresses who were in the. The original play.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, really?

Maurice Chevalier:
Didn't know that. Interesting.

Tony Maietta:
And then after this, she went on and played, you know, as you said, Ma and Pa Kettle. She was in Meet Me in St. Louis. She's in the Long Lawn trailer. And she plays the same character over and over.

Brad Shreve:
Well, yeah, I was sitting here watching Ma Kettle. Definitely.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
On top of Old Smokey. Yeah. Okay. It's great. All right, so that's our main cast. We also have Virginia Gray, cameo or a small appearance by Hedda Hopper.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Is Dolly de Pyster. And we have Florence Nash. And as I said, the screenplay was written by Anita Luce and Jane Murphin, based on the play by Claire Boothe Luce. So I think before we start this, I want to say that again, this film, the women, released in 1939, which is widely regarded to be Hollywood's greatest year, there's even a documentary called 1939, Hollywood's Greatest Year because we got Gone with the Wind, we've got the wizard of oz, we got Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Goodbye, Mr. Chips, Dark Victory, Ninotchka. I mean, these are some big movies, and the women is a part of that. I've always adored this movie, and I think that what I love the most about it is the fact that it is unapologetically high class and slapstick baggy pants comedy.

Tony Maietta:
That's pretty much Rosalind Russell through the whole thing. What do you guys think?

Maurice Chevalier:
I felt like I was watching Monty Mame the whole time with Rosalind Russell because that. My mind, that's what. I equate Rosalind Russell with, that level of character.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
But you. You also commented about what a great actress she was, that she was able to be. So you just. You despise the woman in this movie, and yet you love and adore her in Auntie Mame. But a lot of ways they're very similar. But they're very similar in their.

Tony Maietta:
Love her in this.

Maurice Chevalier:
Well, yeah, I love her in a different way. You love to hate her, but you hate her nonetheless because she's just. She's an awful person in this one. But in Auntie Mame, she's just a sheer delight. She's just kind of avant garde.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. There's a lovable quality to her. Even as nasty as Sylvia can be, you still. Because you laugh at her because she's her own worst enemy. The person she hurts most is herself. And did you know this was Russell's first comedy?

Maurice Chevalier:
No.

Tony Maietta:
This is. This is really the comedy that. And she credits the director, I guess we should say this film was directed by George Cukor one of the greatest directors of the Golden Age. And she totally credits Cukor with giving her this entire career as a comedian because after this, she went on to his Girl Friday. She went on to my sister Eileen and Auntie Mame.

Maurice Chevalier:
And his Girl Friday is another one. I'm putting it on here now. You guys need to do his Girl Friday. Awesome film.

Brad Shreve:
All right. He's been on our case to do His Girl Friday for a while. And rightfully so. But you know what really amazes me? Me is this, as you said, it's a 1939 film. It's a George Cukor film. CU Corps. And yet you don't hear about it that much. I don't think most people know this film that well.

Tony Maietta:
You don't hear about the women.

Brad Shreve:
I don't think I would say the general. Probably not the listeners to this show. But I think generally speaking, if you brought up to people the movie, the woman they. Their eyes would glaze over.

Maurice Chevalier:
I don't think so. I think they're going to equate it with the updated version with Goldie Hawn and some of the others.

Brad Shreve:
I hope not, but maybe. I don't think that movie did Meg Ryan. I don't think that movie did very well.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it did. Was.

Maurice Chevalier:
It did horrible. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Bombed. It's a terror. It's a terrible movie. It's a terrible movie. That's the second remake. There was another remake in the 50s, which we'll get to. But I think that. I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
I think you're. You may have a point there, Brad. However, I think that. I think that movie fans know this film. And I think if you go to anybody in this, anybody on the street and you say Ninotka or you say, maybe not. Goodbye, Mr. Chips. If they.

Tony Maietta:
They read. But are. You say, almost a lot of films from 39. Maybe not Mr. Smith goes to Washington. But I mean, it's. You know, it's just a different. I mean, we're talking about 90 years ago here.

Tony Maietta:
80 years ago. Somebody do the math for me. I'm not. But anyway, so the play was a big hit. It ran 657 performances. And I also want to say that now how the story of how this film got past the Production Code Administration is a podcast in itself. So I don't. We're just gonna.

Tony Maietta:
I think we should just shorthand it because needless to say, this is a film which is basically about an adulterous relationship and one of the commandments of.

Maurice Chevalier:
Not just one, a lot of adulterous relationships.

Tony Maietta:
Many. It's adulterous relationships and husband swaps. This movie, you know, which.

Brad Shreve:
This movie was the precursor to the Seven Year Itch, basically, men cannot keep it in their pants and. And the women just live with it.

Tony Maietta:
No, it's so true.

Maurice Chevalier:
The Seven Year Itch, though, is kind of the. Looking at it from the Joan Crawford character's role, I can see that. Not completely, no.

Brad Shreve:
I can see where you're saying that.

Maurice Chevalier:
But you're getting it more from. The Seven Year Itch is much more from the male and the woman. He's seeing the mistress point of view versus the wife's point of view. This is literally the wives seeing what's going on and then jibber jabbering and talking about each other and oh, how awful would it be if they found out? And, you know. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Except in the Seven Year Itch, you know, the adultery never happens. It's all true. Well, in the movie here, the adulteries. Here the adultery is really. Yes. Here the adultery is really happening and the husband swapping is really happening. But I think what's interesting, you know, like we said when we talked about the Bad Seed, when this play was a success, the PCA sent, headed at this time by that prissy little prig, Joseph Breen, sent a letter to all the studios saying, don't even bother, this play will never be suitable for the screen. And still, like with the Bad Seed, they said, oh, yeah, Joseph Breen, we're gonna make it work.

Tony Maietta:
And that's exactly what happened.

Brad Shreve:
How many times have we heard that? We heard that with Breakfast at Tiffany's as well. Right.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I. Breakfast. If he's also structure wise too, you couldn't. Because it's episodic. But yeah. No, well, that was the pca. That was the Production Code Administration. They're like, there's no way this is going to be suitable for, you know, the.

Tony Maietta:
The poor addled minds of the moviegoers. They're not sophisticated enough to understand a play on the level of the women or the Bad Seed or anything like that. I mean, it's Crazy. But it was still. It was purchased as originally a property for Claudette Colbert with Gregory La Cava as a director. By 1939, MGM got a hold of it. And do you know that one of the writers who was brought in to try to make. To work this out was F.

Tony Maietta:
Scott Fitzgerald, which is not unusual. He wrote a lot of stuff. He was worried. He worked on a lot of stuff in the golden age of Hollywood. I just think it's so funny. But in order to try to appease the Production Code Administration they considered retitling the film the Case for Chastity.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, my God.

Maurice Chevalier:
Okay. That would be as bad as basically the ending of this movie. No.

Tony Maietta:
It's so crazy, right? The Kate. How is the The Case for Chastity a better title than the Women? It makes absolutely no sense. It makes absolutely no sense.

Brad Shreve:
I don't even. It doesn't even apply. That doesn't make any sense.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's. It's. It's. Yeah, it's. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. But MGM ignored that. They.

Tony Maietta:
They move forward. But I think I want to say that when this film went into production and it hadn't gotten clearance yet from the pca. Oh, they were. They. So they basically went into production to make this film not having the seal of approval from the pca. And that's one of the reasons why Joseph Breen was rewriting dialogue. Because this movie was in production. They hadn't even had approval yet.

Tony Maietta:
And it was originally designed. It wasn't originally designed. It was designed as a project for Norma Shearer. And then when George Cukor got fired from Gone with the Wind he was brought on to helm this. And once George Cukor was brought on, that's when things really started to shift and it became more of a real. The real ensemble piece that we see today. He's also the one who insisted that Rosalind Russell be cast. And he also supported Joan Crawford in her bit because Joan lobbied really hard for this part of Crystal Allen.

Tony Maietta:
She. This was her first out and out bit. And I guess I want to ask you guys, what's your opinion of Joan in this movie?

Maurice Chevalier:
You love to hate her. I hated her. I mean, she's an awful, awful person. But she's also out for number one, which is also, you know, okay, great.

Brad Shreve:
This movie made me realize, other than some exceptions like whatever happened to Baby Jane? I am really not a fan of Joan Crawford for numerous reasons. One, is she really considered a hot item? Because I don't find her very attractive in many Ways she just. I know.

Tony Maietta:
Do you know Michael said the same thing? And I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? Joan Crawford? What? How can you say that? So he'll be happy to hear that.

Maurice Chevalier:
Okay, I don't either. It's one of those things. I'm just. I've never found her to be a hot looking woman. She's not ugly by any means?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, no, not even close.

Maurice Chevalier:
I don't think of her as a beauty bombshell, the role she's actually playing. I don't think of her in that mint, honestly. What was the. The one that was the Fox? I'm blanking. Her character's name, Paula Goddard. But she actually was a bombshell.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm gonna shock you guys because it has been a while since I've seen this film, and you know how I tend to forget things. I knew she was in this film, but I didn't remember that she was actually the mistress. So when they were going through the department store and they saw that very lovely young lady, that was the blonde, I thought for sure, Virginia Gray. Yes. I thought for sure that was going to be the mistress, because she made sense. And then when they got over to Ms. Crawford and I'm like, oh, no, why would he.

Tony Maietta:
Well, what I would say is this, is that Joan really is kind of a little too old to play Crystal at this point in her career. I think that Grand Hotel Joan Crawford is kind of who we think of. In fact, I think she is more of the correct age that this Crystal Allen is supposed to be. And I think that actually affects the ending. I think you have a lot more sympathy for Joan Crawford when she has to go back to the perfume counter because you realize this ain't a young chippy. I mean, this woman's been around the block a few times and she's still going to have to be out there hustling. So Joan was 33ish, 34ish at this time, depending on what date you believe is her birth. And she was a little.

Tony Maietta:
A little too oblivious. But she wanted this part because just the year before, she had been named infamously on the list of box office poison. And her career was really having some problems. So she literally went to Louis B. Mayer and said he was horrified that she wanted this part. He's like, you can't play a bitch. You cannot play a bitch. There goes your public.

Tony Maietta:
And Joan said, the woman who steals Norma Shearer's husband can't be played by a nobody. Louis B. And besides, I'd play Wallace Beery's grandmother, if the role was good enough. And that's what I love about Joan Crawford. She was so canny. About what? About her career, about what she needed to do. That's why the woman was a star from 1929 all the way up until 1970. She knew how to change her image and she knew that she would.

Tony Maietta:
Needed. She needed to do something at this point in her career because she was having some difficulties. And I love that about her.

Maurice Chevalier:
I have no dispute about her ability to act. I have no ability. Her ability to be a businesswoman because she had to for herself. I get that. I disagree with the fact that she is a bombshell. She is not a bombshell. At least in this movie. She was not the bombshell.

Maurice Chevalier:
However, I get it. The character that she played was on point.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Maurice Chevalier:
She played the character as it was supposed to be played.

Tony Maietta:
No, no, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I think. I think she's spectacular in this film. Yes. I love her in this. It's one of my favorite performances of hers. Next to Grand Hotel and Whatever happened to Baby Jane.

Tony Maietta:
I feel like she is so. Because this is an. This is a Crawford the audiences have not seen. She is unrepentantly ambitious. She knows what she wants and she doesn't care. She doesn't. That scene between them when they have the showdown, which we'll talk about in the dressing room. She is so funny and so biting and so bitchy, you know, and the reason is she hated Norma Shearer and Norma Shearer hated her.

Tony Maietta:
But anyway, that's beside the point. The characters, the characters. She's so unfiltered in this. And I love that about her. I love the fact that she's visceral and almost animalistic in her desires.

Brad Shreve:
Was there anyone that Joan liked?

Tony Maietta:
Oh, Joan liked a lot of women. Joan and Barbara Stanwick were great pals.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, well, that's. They're a perfect pair.

Tony Maietta:
The reason I said before that, you know, there was the feud between Bette Davis and Joan Crawford. Yes. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't understand why everybody thinks. No, the women didn't care about each other. They weren't really in each other's orbits. But Norma Shearer was the one. Because, as we said during we were talking about Grand Hotel, you know, Joan Crawford started as a showgirl.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, she scratched and clawed her way to the top, to the very top. And one of her very first jobs, when she got to MGM as a showgirl, I think she was still Lucille LeSueur. I don't even think she was Joan Crawford yet one of her first jobs was as the back of Norma Shearer's head. Now think about that for a minute.

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, I've heard these type of things, so that is not a shock because I've heard of things in Hollywood where you have people who are. They are the nipple on somebody's chest and it's like, oh, what?

Tony Maietta:
So think about it, Think about it. To go from playing the back of Norma Shearer's head to having co star billing with her. And another thing, you know, at mgm, Norma was the queen of the lot. She was the queen of the lot because she was married to the head of production, Irving Thalberg. And Joan always said Norma gets all the best parts because she sleeps with the boss. And it's absolutely true. But Joan Crawford. So there was a great deal of animosity there on Joan's part.

Tony Maietta:
And Norma was. Norma was the queen of the lot and she carried that with her wherever there was. So there was a great deal of tension, but between them. And I think that bleeds so well into this movie. Can't you just feel it when they're in that scene together?

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, yeah. I mean, you. You totally feel that. That angst and anger and just bitter hatred.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, Absolutely. I love that. Brad, what were the stats? I know this is a little bit out of order. What are the stats on this movie?

Brad Shreve:
Okay, well, it's good you asked because we've covered most of them, so we can kind of just wrap them up real quickly. And then I want to ask Maurice a. A direct question before we go further in the movie because we. We really got a lot more to deep dive into. You mentioned Louis B. Mayer was an MGM film producer, was Hunt Stromberg, which I'm not real familiar with. And I think you mentioned.

Tony Maietta:
Wait a minute though. Do you think about that name we've talked about? Hunt Stromberg Jr. Do you remember who Hunt Stromberg Jr. Was?

Brad Shreve:
I knew you were going to stop me when I said I don't remember who he was because I was certain it's of kind come up one time or another. But no, I don't remember at all.

Tony Maietta:
Hunt Stromberg was the producer of this film. Yes. His son, Hunt Stromberg Jr. Was an executive at CBS who worked on the Judy Garland show.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, that asshole.

Tony Maietta:
Judy had a. Judy had a special nickname for Hunt. And that's all we're gonna say about.

Brad Shreve:
I think we can all guess. All right.

Tony Maietta:
Sorry I interrupted.

Brad Shreve:
No, that was. No, the only Other thing to talk about is it was. It was a money maker. It was not immediately. I mean, it was a. But apparently the production cost was pretty pricey. But in the long run, it's been. It's done very well financially.

Tony Maietta:
Well, when you plop a Technicolor fashion.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, God, don't even go.

Tony Maietta:
Of a movie, and you completely stop the film in its tracks, you're gonna go a little overboard.

Brad Shreve:
And I want to talk about that, but I want to ask Maurice a direct question first, because, boy, we got to get into that damn fashion show, which apparently everybody in production.

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, we will. Because I have something to say about that one.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, you do. But, Maurice, other than having been involved in the play, I want to know very specifically what is about this movie that you love.

Maurice Chevalier:
Let's see that. I think, first of all, none of them should have other animals than cats. They should just be varying types of cats, because there were a lot of cat fights in this movie.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, yeah.

Maurice Chevalier:
Okay. I love the way the characters were played, the background of all the stuff that you guys talk about on here. Besides that, it was very well done in the way the acting and directing was done because you feel that angst between all of them. You have. Even little Mary. Brad, you had mentioned she seemed almost bad seed. Like at the beginning of the. When she first came up, I kept.

Brad Shreve:
Waiting for her to pull out a knife.

Maurice Chevalier:
She is so much more intelligent for her age than she seems to. Than she should be.

Tony Maietta:
Mother dear. Daddy darling. Yes, Daddy darling. Mother dear. Yes. Do something. Do something.

Maurice Chevalier:
At that time, it probably would have been okay, but I love every aspect of this film. The only. Only thing I dislike about this is the way the ending kind of came around. We'll get into that later. But.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, we'll get into that. Because, you know, that's not the ending from the play.

Maurice Chevalier:
God, no. Yeah, so. But yeah, I just, like, love all the aspects of it. I love the fact that it was black and white. I actually originally loved the Technicolor fashion show in the center. However, it does stop the film completely in its tracks. There's no reason to have that in there other than, hey, look, we have Technicolor.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, that's that for a very long time. That was cut out of the movie. When we have screenings. It was cut because, I mean, it lifts right out. It literally stops the movie in its tracks. And there's no point but just to see those. They're all Adrian's fashions. Adrian, the mythic costume designer who designed all the Costumes for MGM film.

Tony Maietta:
Well, not all the costumes for MGM films, but he was Crawford's designer. He was Garbo's designer. He was. He designed all those. And two years after the women, he left Hollywood and opened up, you know, his couturier shop. So it's. It's. You know, that's Adrian saying, I'm on my way out.

Tony Maietta:
So we're. We talked a little bit about the struggles with the billing and how Norma consented to have Joan because they both had. They both had. In their contracts, they had to have star billing. So Norma had MGM stock because Irving Thalberg left her. So she had a little more leverage than Joan did. So she got first billing. Plus, she was queen of the lot.

Tony Maietta:
Jones is right up there with her. But as I said, Rosalind Russell fought for getting that billing, and Norma acquiesced and said, okay, but it can't be 50%. It has to be less than 50% larger than mine. Okay, Norma. So on the first day of production, Shearer arrived to find three star trailers arranged outside the soundstage with one extending out about a foot. Foot in front of the other two.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, petty.

Tony Maietta:
She was told it was. Whose do you think it was? It was Ms. Crawford's trailer. And she demanded, before they filmed a single foot of film, that they all be lined up equally. God, this is before a foot of film is even shot. These women are doing it to each other. But what I love about this movie is the opening. How does the movie open? What is the first time.

Tony Maietta:
What is the first thing we actually see after we see the mont. After we see the list of characters in this movie? Do you guys remember what the very first shot is?

Maurice Chevalier:
We have a dog fight. Exactly right outside of Sydney's.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, a literal bitch fight outside of Sydney's. So there's no question here what's going on here. Sidney's, of course, is the Salon, based on Elizabeth Arden. And there's a story about Sydney's. And Sydney Gilleroff, the hairdresser, who actually was kind of an inspiration for this story, which I'll get to at the end if we have time. But it's so funny now.

Brad Shreve:
You know what Sidney's in this film was?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
It was the place where women go to get their skin destroyed from incredible heat lamps and have all these horrible things done to their body that probably made them age twice as fast doing exactly what it didn't want it. I was cringing. I'm like, oh, my God, what is she doing to her skin? So anyway, yes, that solid pound of.

Tony Maietta:
That solid mound of flesh has married a jockey. Yes. Have a very, very fast, fast montage of all these women having. Getting themselves plucked and pulled. And I still say I should have pulled a gun on that guy. Same as I did with Judge McClure and all these.

Brad Shreve:
It was just beautifully done.

Tony Maietta:
It puts you right into it. It's actually the second opening that was shot because if you notice, you have all these montages of all these women. And suddenly it dissolves to Rosalind Russell finding out about Stephen Haynes stepping out on Mary. And so it's very fast. It's very fast. And then it goes immediately to Rosalind Russell calling Edith. And did you notice that when she first calls Edith, she seems like she's eating something? Did you? Have you ever noticed that, or is it just me?

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, no, she was definitely eating something. She's sitting there chowing on something. As she's. Like.

Tony Maietta:
She's chowing on something.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
You know. You know why I think that is? Because it's a. She's actually chewing on the best piece of gossip she could possibly have. So Cukor said, eat something.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, I love this kind of shit. That's the best. I love this kind of stuff because it tells you so much about these characters. And already within three minutes of this movie, we already know who this character is. I mean, it's. It's a brilliant.

Brad Shreve:
And the whole. Oh, the poor dear. How tragic. As they are grinning from ear to ear.

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, they weren't just grinning. They were dying of laughter.

Brad Shreve:
They were getting.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, they're dining. They are literally dining out on this. They can't wait to go to lunch. They have to have lunch with her. What are they going to do? They have to face her. And I love that. I love that lunch scene. But how rich are these people? I mean, look at that country estate they have.

Tony Maietta:
And then they have that fabulous place in Manhattan in the city. It's disgusting. But again, Real Housewives of New York. That's what it is.

Maurice Chevalier:
Well, then the other thing with that opening scene is also the pace. Every bit as there's. There's never a stop in conversation because they all overlap each other as they're.

Brad Shreve:
Going, oh, it's hard to take a breath in this film.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah, it is.

Tony Maietta:
It is. It's. It's. It's so brilliantly constructed. It's just. It's a wonderful way to get in. And I love that lunch scene too, where we meet the rest of the women, including the one and only lesbian Nancy. Yes.

Tony Maietta:
And we know she's a lesbian because she's basically in a man suit. That's what Adrian is telling us. This is a lesbian. And I think in the play, she says, Rosalind Russell says, what are you, pet? In the movie, she goes, and what are you, pet? And she goes, I'm an old maid, a frozen asset. And I think in the play, the line is, I'm a virgin, a frozen asset.

Maurice Chevalier:
I think that's. I don't remember the exact verbiage in the play, but it was something along the lines, more alluding to what she is or how she identifies. Yes, yes.

Tony Maietta:
It's. It's interesting. That part of Nancy is. Is very thankless. It's a very thankless. She doesn't even. She doesn't even get a spirit animal. No, she doesn't get a spirit animal.

Brad Shreve:
Oh.

Maurice Chevalier:
Nope.

Tony Maietta:
I love her anyway. But I want to talk about, you know, Maurice, we don't do plot by plot point on the part, but I do want to talk about a couple of my favorite scenes. What are some of your favorite scenes?

Maurice Chevalier:
Actually, one of my favorite characters is the Countess. The love. Primarily because of the person that I love from the play that I worked with.

Tony Maietta:
Oh.

Maurice Chevalier:
They both have. They both have that southern draw and both had that. That. Oh, and her name alone is fabulous because it's apostrophe L, A, V, E. So da. Love is how she pronounces it. And the L' amour le. More so.

Maurice Chevalier:
I love the scene of them going to the. On the train, heading out there, and she meets her, and she meets the Countess. And. And I'm blanking on the other Miriams for the first time.

Brad Shreve:
The world's widest train, I might add. But go on.

Tony Maietta:
On the train to Reno, because it's all divorcees going to Reno, which is also mind blowing.

Maurice Chevalier:
You have to get a divorce. So where do you go? You live in New York.

Tony Maietta:
You.

Maurice Chevalier:
You travel to the east, to the west coast to get your divorce. It's insane.

Tony Maietta:
That's crazy. But at the time, I was very true, though. That was what you did.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah. So the Countess to love. I love the whole scene on the train because you get a sense of who these people really are, these two people. And I love Miriam's character. The character of Miriam is just so brilliant. She's just so unapologetically. This is who I am, and I don't care.

Tony Maietta:
I love Paula Goddard. I agree with you. She's a wonderful. She's a very underrated actress, I think. Paula Gardner, you know, this was right after she lost Scarlett o'. Hara. She was so close to getting Scarlett o' Hara and Gone with the Wind. And then they found Vivien Leigh.

Tony Maietta:
So, I mean, this was kind of like a consolation prize for her. Not really much of a consolation. She was also with Charlie Chaplin, so she really didn't have much to complain about. But I love. I love. Yeah, I love Mary Bolland, the brilliant Mary Boland, who plays the Countess of Delavre. Flora.

Brad Shreve:
L'.

Tony Maietta:
Amour. L'. Amour. Oh, la publicite. She's such a wonderful character. I love Miriam. One of my favorite scenes is the ambush scene when Sylvia and Edith, Roz Russell and Phyllis Pova sneak up and discover Joan Crawford. And it's the first time we see Joan Crawford.

Tony Maietta:
And I love the fact that she has. Joan Crawford has that great. Has that wonderful phone call with Stephen and all these little asides. And Virginia Gray, who plays Pat, her co worker, keeps doing little jabs at her, like, because. Because Joan Crawford is being syrupy sweet on the phone with Steven. And she's like. Because he's trying to break their date. And she's in.

Tony Maietta:
She goes, I got a rather disturbing letter from home today. My sister's not doing well at all. And Pat goes, what's wrong with her? She got a hangover.

Brad Shreve:
I wanted to vomit. Not only because she was the way she acted, but the fact that he fell for it.

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, come on.

Brad Shreve:
I don't mean vomit in a bad way. I meant that's the way I was supposed to feel. I mean, it was like.

Maurice Chevalier:
Well, I mean, it is so over the top, syrup and sweet. It's ridiculous. And I agree with you, Tony, that scene, having all of that happen. And then you get Edith and Sylvia coming in, sneaking around like, oh, we're these big investigators. Like you guys are. You guys are the Keystone Cops.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, sneaking up on her, it's such a. And that exchange. I'm sorry, but one's mind is on one's own business. And Sylvia goes, that's right. And you have so many men. I mean, there's just the barbs and each other are.

Brad Shreve:
It was beautiful.

Tony Maietta:
Brilliant, brilliant. Come back again, Mrs. Prowler. That's Fowler.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. It's actually probably one of the best films in the film. Or best scenes in the film. It was just so well done.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
The dialogue is brilliant. Russell goes from high comedy to baggy pants. You know, she says. She goes, did you see her? Did you get her innuendo? And then she turned, you know, she's going, I'll have her discharged. I'll go straight to the manager. And she turns and falls into that clothes bucket.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah, they both do. They both do. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
That's what I love about this movie. It goes from high to low, high to low. It's just, it's, it's, it's wonderful. What do we want to say about the fashion show? You said you guys have something to say about the fashion show. What do we want to say about the fashion show?

Maurice Chevalier:
Okay, I'll let you guys go first.

Brad Shreve:
It was clearly a way to say, hey, we've got Technicolor. Because it served. If they wanted to put a fashion show in the film, fine. You can just show it from the women's point of view. Or at least show a 15 second thing on this showing on the stage that there is a fashion show going on. The damn thing went on way too long. You're like, let's get the fuck over with this thing. I don't care about these fashions other than they're laughable and which, you know, most fashion shows are anyway.

Brad Shreve:
They're never very realistic. So that was, that was true, but it was just like, let's move on and get back to the film. It just made the film come to a dead stop.

Maurice Chevalier:
It was clear that they just simply dropped it in place. There's. It was not. It was not necessary. It was not filmed during the same time frame. None of it. It was just dropped in place. You can clearly see that because the fashion portion of that was literally as they're walking, you know, as Mary just finds out that Joan's in there and she's walking back to her, she's walking away in almost peers to go.

Maurice Chevalier:
And you have that woman that jumps into her. Hi, this is our new piece with.

Tony Maietta:
Our new lace foundation garment. Zips up the back with no bones.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah. And Brad, tell them what you asked me about that one.

Brad Shreve:
What's the deal with no bones? I didn't know what no bones meant. I thought maybe it wasn't showing her bony back because I couldn't think of anything else that it meant. It made no sense to me because.

Maurice Chevalier:
In high fashion, in certain fashions, they used to actually use bones in the material to keep it stiff.

Tony Maietta:
That's amazing. The only reason I know that line is because I had a friend who went as that character one Halloween and he literally walked around to everyone and said, our new one piece lace foundation garment zips up the back with no bones. Everybody, everybody who got it screamed, it's so brilliant. No, you Know, it's funny because I agree with you, Maurice and that long shot. Cukor doesn't get enough credit for being the really interesting director he is. As far as camera moves. That long shot of Norma walking to the dressing room once she realizes that Crystal Allen, Joan Crawford's Crystal Allen, the woman who's sleeping with her husband it's a very long tracking shot. And you get the real sense.

Tony Maietta:
He does this a couple times in the movie, that Norma's. That Mary's on her own. She's all by herself. She's singular. She's walking all alone. And it's a wonderful shot. But then you have the showdown scene. And there's some backstage stuff about the showdown scene.

Tony Maietta:
But before I talk about that, I was just curious what your thoughts, both of you were, about that showdown scene when they finally, finally confront each other.

Maurice Chevalier:
Crystal, let me finish with the fashion show. No, that's okay. So the fashion show, to me was more like an interlude. That would be the point in a lot of older movies where you'd have, okay, we're doing this and then we're going to break and we're going to go. People can go out into the lobby, grab some more popcorn. That's what it felt like to me. However, in the play that we did in Los Angeles, we did use that as our intermission. So we actually had local fashion artists who actually did the show.

Maurice Chevalier:
But instead of in Technicolor, we had the show. The play itself was all in bright, vibrant colors. And we kind of geared the colors for each of the characters. So the Countess deluve had more dark, moody, like greens and kind of moody colors because she was always in love, but she was always kind of vibrant and up. So the fashion show, when we did that, it was all black and white outfits.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, wow.

Maurice Chevalier:
So fashion artists from around Los Angeles did these. Did these. And so you had all the different fashions, people coming out and showing different fashions and everything. And it was supposed to be based from that time era. Then at the end of the fashion show, we broke and had had intermission for the play, which was a lot of fun.

Tony Maietta:
I love that idea.

Brad Shreve:
That was genius.

Tony Maietta:
That's a great idea.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah. So it works for that. Yeah, yeah, it does, but it doesn't. It doesn't work in the film at all. Unless the film was actually four hours long. It's a two and a half. It's a two hour and 15 minute movie. It didn't need an intermission.

Tony Maietta:
It's just amazing to me. They put that in There. It's. No, it's an incredible.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
It lifts.

Maurice Chevalier:
Right.

Tony Maietta:
But if you notice a lot, some of those dresses that are in the fashion show and Technicolor are later in the film.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
In black and white. They're kind of cool to see that. It's kind of cool to see that.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah. Well. And if you look at it, a lot of the Technicolor stuff, the colors are super bright and vibrant. But if you really look at it, they're still designed so that they look good in black and white. Because Technicolor hadn't really come. Come on. On the scene fully yet. It was still a new thing.

Tony Maietta:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
So they finally have a showdown. Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford and Mary Haynes and Crystal Allen. And it's a wonderful scene. It's another one of my favorite scenes in this movie. Just because of the lines. Because, I mean, they're just throwing barbs at each other. And my favorite line is probably when. Norma Shearer's exit line when she says to Joan, if.

Tony Maietta:
If you're dressing for Stephen, may I suggest something else? He doesn't like such obvious effects. And Joan Crawford says, thanks for the tip. But when anything I wear doesn't please Steve and I take it off.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
That was.

Brad Shreve:
That was such a great scene. And, my God, it made you. It made you. You know, he didn't like Rosalind Russell's character and you weren't supposed to. And I love to hate her.

Maurice Chevalier:
No, not Rosalind Russell.

Brad Shreve:
No, no, I'm going. I'm talking about Rosalind Russell.

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh, okay.

Brad Shreve:
You didn't like her character and you weren't supposed to. And it was fun to dislike her. It was fun to dislike Joan. But, I mean, you just really, really. At least me, I hated that woman. Just hated her. She had no morals. God, they neither did.

Brad Shreve:
But she just. She didn't give a damn. Anyone but herself.

Tony Maietta:
She's getting to the. She's. She's gonna make her life the best she can.

Brad Shreve:
Rosalind Russell was despicable. It's because she was playful. In her own sick way.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. She. She just.

Brad Shreve:
Joan was a much different despicable person.

Tony Maietta:
She lived for the gossip.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Rosalind Russell. Did she live to see other people's misery? You know what I mean? But what I love what Cukor does with her in that scene is he told her to pretend like she was a bee. Because if you notice, she's in one ear of Norma Shearers and she's in the other near of Norma Shearers. She's all over her, bothering her to get her. To get her to go into the dressing room. And then there's that wonderful shot that's shot in the mirror. So it's four reflections of Rosalind Russell and one Norma Shearer. So she feels overwhelmed.

Tony Maietta:
Another hu. Core did these amazing things he never gets credit for.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Which then spurs her on.

Brad Shreve:
That scene between Shearer and Crawford just. Yeah, it was, it was beautiful. There's so many wonderful scenes.

Maurice Chevalier:
Well, I mean, that scene also. That scene also had the. That you knew what was going to happen the minute they. That she walked into that room. You knew what was going to. What the outcome was going to be. So it was, it was kind of like, why are you giving into this? You. You get that feeling, you know it's going to go this way already, but you get, you really feel that.

Maurice Chevalier:
Why, why would you take this woman's advice, you know, better than to listen to Sylvia, you know, but she does it.

Tony Maietta:
And her mother even told her, don't confide in your girlfriends. Do you want just a little tidbit of behind the scenes from that scene?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, sure.

Tony Maietta:
A little behind the scenes.

Brad Shreve:
No, Tony, we have you here, so you can't give us the behind the.

Tony Maietta:
Scenes stuff, you know, so we know that we already established how Shearer and Crawford felt about each other. Okay? So this is their only scene together. This was their only scene other than the final scene with all the women. This is the only scene between Shearer and Crawford. So when Cuko went to film it, he got the master shot between the two of them. Fine. But as you know, in filmmaking, you do the master shot and then you have to go in for the close ups. One person's close up and another person's close up.

Tony Maietta:
Now, it's usually courtesy of one actor when it's not their close up, to feed the lines to the person whose close up it is to get so they can have the proper emotion. Well, Shearer said she would not be performing her off camera lines for Crawford's reaction shot. So Joan Crawford had to do her reaction shots to George Cukor's lines. All right? When the time came for the reverse, Crawford was pissed. But she magnanimously agreed to do her part as a good actress and read her off camera lines for Norma. So she did this the entire time she was knitting.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, my God.

Tony Maietta:
So she's reading her lines to Norma Shearer off camera. Norma Shearers on camera. Click clack, click clack, click clack, click clack, click clack. To the point where Norma kept losing her concentration and she asked Joan to stop knitting. Please stop knitting. And Joan said, oh, of course, dear Norma. Of course. Action.

Tony Maietta:
Click clack.

Brad Shreve:
Click clack, click.

Tony Maietta:
What's the matter, dear Norma? So Norma became so infuriated, she told Cukor to send Joan home and have him read the line. And Joan was told. CU Cord told Joan, stop it, Joan, stop knitting. Read normal lines. And Joan got up and walked off the set saying, no one had ever been bothered by my knitting before. So Joan got some of hers back. I'll tell you right now, I love that song.

Brad Shreve:
These big women were so small.

Tony Maietta:
That's why I'm saying this is the Ryan Murphy show. I mean, these two, it's just crazy. It's too crazy. We talked about the scene on the train where we meet Paulette Gollard and Mary Bolan because they're in Reno getting a divorce. And we also meet Lucy, the one and only Marjorie Maine, who has so many different versions. Lyrics. On top of Old Smokey. I.

Tony Maietta:
I couldn't keep up.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah. I was like, I didn't realize that song had that many verses.

Tony Maietta:
It's so funny. It's so funny. How about when, when, when Joan Fontaine asks Marjorie Mainet, have you ever been married before? And she goes, I've had three. She goes, husbands? Nah, kids. And she says, them big strong red headed men, they're fierce.

Maurice Chevalier:
It was like, oh, he beat you. How sad. She's like, yeah. When you really consider how many other women around here need to be beat.

Brad Shreve:
Exactly.

Tony Maietta:
Use a weapon. Ain't it though? When you consider other women who need a lot more than I do. Oh, she's so wonderful. I love her. I love her. I love how these characters came in like halfway through the Countess and Miriam and Lucy and they just bring a whole new energy to the show, to the movie. What are some of your other favorite scenes, you guys? Scenes?

Maurice Chevalier:
Ooh, Little Mary and Joan Crawford. Little Mary in the bathtub scene.

Tony Maietta:
Bathtub scene.

Maurice Chevalier:
Okay, first of all, she's a stepchild and she played the stepchild very well.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. So Crystal is now married to Steven for 18 months. For 18 months. And little Mary is now her stepdaughter. And she's in the bathtub. This luxurious, transparent bathtub with just enough bubbles to keep Joan Crawford covered. Yes. With a private extension.

Tony Maietta:
So, yes. I love the dialogue between those two. That's. To me, that's. That saves Virginia Wheelder in that scene. Her, her conversation with. Just when she says, I think this bathroom is perfectly dreadful. Goodbye, Krista.

Tony Maietta:
Goodnight, Crystal. It's just. It's.

Maurice Chevalier:
She said ridiculous. Yeah. So she's. She's.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, ridiculous.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah, ridiculous. Because she's one of those that's like, oh, love is silly, you know? But that's all she thinks about because you can tell the way she talks about it. But, Mommy, why do you love. Why. Why don't you and Daddy love each other anymore?

Tony Maietta:
What about you, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
You know, one of my favorite scenes is the final scene with all of them together conspiring basically against Crystal, Joan Crawford's character, and locking her in the closet. I love that whole scene. And one of the reasons why I love the scene. And again, I hate to get a little negative on the film. One of the reasons why I love the scene is because. Because Mary Haynes was finally strong. She is manipulating and controlling that scene from beginning to end in her whole purpose for the first time and only time in the film to bring Crystal down. And she does a beautiful job of it.

Brad Shreve:
And that's one of the reasons why I'm heartbroken at the very end. But I just love that whole scene. It's just.

Tony Maietta:
It's taken her. It's taken her two freaking years to grow claws. Mother. Jungle Red, which is the. The last line of the play. Right, Maurice? That's how the play ends.

Maurice Chevalier:
I've seen Exactly.

Tony Maietta:
Years. Yeah, but they put that in the middle of that. They put it in the middle of that scene because they had to have that ridiculous last shot of Norma Shearer at the end. Which we'll talk to.

Maurice Chevalier:
Reaching out.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, but the whole. Yeah, the play is much different than the movie. I love the way, you know, Buck Winston, who is the countess to love's new boy toy. Toy boy is having the affair with Crystal and how it all comes down on poor Mary Boland. Poor Mary Boland is the one who gets humiliated in that bathroom. And Norma doesn't give a shit. She just wants to get her husband back. You know, that's what I.

Tony Maietta:
That's what I don't like. I don't like that at all.

Brad Shreve:
It did bother me.

Maurice Chevalier:
I agree with you.

Brad Shreve:
No, that it bothered me as well. I. I felt really bad for her. And Mary just didn't give a damn at that point. She had her claws out and kind of. I liked it. I didn't like it, but I like it because she was always kind of over all the other women and she finally is like, screw them. It's my turn.

Brad Shreve:
So I didn't. I didn't like it.

Maurice Chevalier:
At the same time, I felt sorry for the countess for a brief moment, but then she's also very bad judgment. She's already said, I'm a very bad judge of character, but love is the only thing that matters. She was also a smart businesswoman.

Tony Maietta:
She was. She was rich.

Maurice Chevalier:
Thank you. She was super wealthy.

Tony Maietta:
She was dandy gelatine.

Maurice Chevalier:
Thank you.

Tony Maietta:
Didn't she say about her first husband, Gustav? He pushed her off the side of an alp. And she didn't realize until she was halfway down the mountain that Gustav doesn't love me anymore.

Maurice Chevalier:
But she fell into the. Into the arms of her third husband.

Tony Maietta:
Which one of her husbands said she was an A1 schlemiel. I can't remember which one.

Maurice Chevalier:
That was the. That was the last one. The count.

Tony Maietta:
Fell into the arms of an A1 schlemiel. I love Mary Boland so much.

Brad Shreve:
That scene was my favorite. And the, the opening scene at the salon where it just was this montage going and. Because I just thought that was so beautifully done.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah, yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I love. I know. And I said we were talking about Joan Crawford earlier about being maybe a little too old. And I get really moved by her at the end when she goes. She just, you know, she's like, well, that's it. You know, I guess it's back to the perfume counter for me. You know, it's. She's not.

Tony Maietta:
She. She realizes she's defeated and there's kind of a sadness in there because this is not a 25 year old woman anymore. This woman is, you know, pushing 35 and she's got to go back out there and hustle up another Stephen Haynes and who knows how many. I mean, I'm sure she would have been fine. It's a fictional character.

Brad Shreve:
You're nicer than I am. I felt nothing.

Tony Maietta:
Did you really? I find her kind of touching and moving. And I love that outfit. That was a very controversial outfit she has because she showed skin and Louis B. Mer didn't like that at all. But they. Adrian said it's the character. That's what I loved about Adrian too. He said, no, this is what the character would wear.

Tony Maietta:
It's garish and it's sleazy, but it's sophisticated. And Joan Crawford and Adrian and George Cuko all went to the mat for that costume, which I love that too. But of course, there's the final scene. There's Mary Haynes. Haven't you got any pride? And what does Mary Haynes say to that line? Anybody?

Maurice Chevalier:
The worst line in it, which is basically, I am a woman in love. I Can't have pride. I forget exactly the exact way she says it, but yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, that's. Pride is something a woman in love can't afford. And then you get that whole ridiculous. The music. And she does that. This thing about Norma Shearer. She does that silent film thing where she reaches her hands out because she sees Steven and she runs into his arms and you're like, oh, for Christ's sake, I hope she runs into.

Maurice Chevalier:
Thank you. That's exactly what Brad and I both had.

Tony Maietta:
To run right into his arms and fall out of window. I swear, it's like, oh, Mary Haines, you know, you deserved every terrible thing that happened to you in this movie.

Brad Shreve:
I wanted to jump in the screen and grab her by the neck and say, what is wrong with you?

Maurice Chevalier:
I was waiting for one of the dogs to run out and trip her.

Tony Maietta:
It's just so. I mean, if they had to put that on, I don't know why they had to put that on there. I don't know what was wrong with the original ending from the play. But that's how the movie ends. That's how the movie ends.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah. And the jungle red in the film. The jungle red actually has a much more prevalent place. So that jungle red is repeated throughout the film, throughout the play. Because it's one of the big taglines in the play.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's the theme of the play.

Brad Shreve:
The biggest thing to me that is lost from the play to the movie is, and Mary is perfect example of this is in the movie, it was all about love. And I love my man. I need my man back. And the play was all about my place in society. He is messing around. We're going to get divorced and I'm going to lose my place in society. That was the big difference between the two. And that is interesting.

Brad Shreve:
In the end, Mary, you know, like I gave that line of what I said, I wish the movie was about and let me pull that line up again. I've had to swallow my pride, but I'll be damned if I'll lose my pride place. And that was what the play was all about.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
And the movie is about pride is something a woman in love, a luxury a woman in love can't afford.

Brad Shreve:
Exactly. So you can say you can dislike the whole reasoning for the play, but at least the women had some strength. They knew what they wanted. In the movie, it was all, I'm helpless and weak and I need my man. And of course, I am a man of the the2020s, but. Well, earlier than that. But anyway.

Tony Maietta:
You just have to put yourself in that and just go for the ride and enjoy.

Brad Shreve:
And you do. But it is awfully hard. It is.

Tony Maietta:
It's the performances. For me, it's Roslyn Russell, so hysterically funny. It's Joan Crawford.

Maurice Chevalier:
Oh yeah.

Tony Maietta:
The bitchiest. And I love every moment of it. And watching her take down Norma Shearer is just delightful to me. Yeah, I love it. So as Brad said, the movie was a hit. It lost money actually though, because it was so expensive because of that frickin fashion show. But then it made money.

Brad Shreve:
I assumed it was from the cast of 10,000 because I always have notes, but I've been looking at my notes the whole time we've been talking because there's so many women in this movie.

Tony Maietta:
Well, what did we say?

Brad Shreve:
And they're all very different and they all look very different, but it's so hard to keep up with them.

Tony Maietta:
But so many of those women were under contract.

Brad Shreve:
That's true. It is a different time.

Tony Maietta:
Like we said about Grand Hotel, MGM was the only studio that could have made this kind of film. Now some of those people weren't. Mary Boland wasn't under contract. I don't think Phyllis Pova was under contract. Paulette Goddard might have had some kind of contract, but. But we're talking about Russell and Shearer and Crawford. The big ones were all, all under contract. So it wasn't like they were paying him any outrageous amount of money.

Tony Maietta:
It was the fact that you did have a huge cast. But think about it. This film has no exterior scenes either. It's all interiors, it was all on the soundstage. It's that frickin fashion show probably that pushed it over. But it made money on its re release. And it's mythic as far as I'm concerned. It's mythic.

Tony Maietta:
But I do have one last fun story about Norma and Joan that I want to tell. Just when you thought we were done.

Brad Shreve:
With this, do tell.

Tony Maietta:
The movie is over. The movie is over and it's time. For what? Publicity photos. So when the time came for the group stills, all the three main ladies, Shearer, Crawford and Russell were all called at 10am and nobody showed up. Russell said she was kind of getting tired of getting the shraft, the shrift from Norma Shearer. So she was going to be late. She was going to pull a little something and be late. So she waited.

Tony Maietta:
Nobody showed up at 10:30, nobody showed up at 11. Finally, 11:30, Rosalind Russell comes in thinking she's gonna be, you know, here she is. The stars arrive and she's like, I'm so sorry I'm late. And the photographer said, you're not late, you're the first one here. So Russell was like. Russell's like, wait a minute, I'm two and a half hours late and I'm the first one here. So she goes outside and she sees Norma Shearer's car slowly driving around the publicity studio. Norma looking out of her window into the studio and then driving on.

Tony Maietta:
And then right behind her car is Crawford's car. Joan Crawford is doing the exact same thing. Driving by slowly and looking in the studio and then driving on.

Maurice Chevalier:
Dear God, these women have so much.

Tony Maietta:
Drama because nobody wanted to be the first to arrive. That was, you know, that was the way it was. That's why Russell was two and a half hours late. So the head of publicity, Howard Strickling, told the photographer, the photographer's like, I have to get these shots. What am I going to do? He said to go out in the street and stop both cars, put yourself in front of both cars, stop them and bring them in together. And that's exactly what he had to do. Isn't that hysterical? They were still doing this after the film wrapped. I love that kind of stuff.

Maurice Chevalier:
I do, I do.

Brad Shreve:
It is unreal to imagine.

Tony Maietta:
So this movie, as I said, was a hit and it really set some people on their path. I mean, as we said, Russell, this was her first comedy. She went on to do iconic comedies after this. Joan Crawford had a bit of a career resurgence before her career fell again and she finally left mgm. It was only Norma. Poor Norma. This is her really last good movie. She retired from film completely three years later and never made another movie.

Tony Maietta:
So it's fascinating. But I mean, I just think it's such a damn good time, this movie. I love, love, love this movie.

Maurice Chevalier:
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's a fun film. It's a, it's a fun ride if nothing else.

Tony Maietta:
Absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Marie said, it, it's a ride. It's a fun ride. It is a five ticket ride. And Disney, that was before my time, but it is a five ticket ride.

Tony Maietta:
A five ticket ride. I like that. So that was a lot. Maurice, though, thank you so much for joining us today and suggesting this movie. I kind of like the fact that we're ending our second season on this movie. I think it's kind of fitting. I think it's a really great little send off to end our second season.

Maurice Chevalier:
Glad I could Offer it.

Tony Maietta:
That's good. So, Brad, is there anything you want to say about. Oh, before you do that, though, I think we have a review. We got a review and I think we want to talk about that, don't we?

Brad Shreve:
We do, but actually I'm going to pull one out that I think you skipped on purpose and I'm going to bring it.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, geez, geez. Well, let me say this before I do that. So this is, this is indeed the end of our second season, our season finale. But why don't you guys all go back and listen to an episode maybe that you didn't hear from the first season? Go way back. We've had a lot of people listening to our older episodes, which I find fascinating and listening. So please do that. And hey, please review one if you want. Go ahead, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. So the one I'm going to bring up is our only one star review that had a comment.

Tony Maietta:
Why are you gonna do that?

Brad Shreve:
Because I think there's a reason. You'll know why I'm gonna do it.

Tony Maietta:
Okay. Okay.

Brad Shreve:
I'm not gonna say anything terrible about the person I don't understand, but the person's name is Angry lf, and I. The first part of their name fits. And I have all kinds of things I could say for the lf. But you know what, here's the thing. Angry lf, his comment was they called the bad seed deliciously terrible with exclamation points and question mark. And then he says, any podcast that wrong about a film is not worth the time. So first of all, I want to say angry, I hope if you're listening, that you're going to give us more chance because the simple fact is there is no wrong about a film. This is a show where we talk about opinion and some of the things, some of our most common comments that we get from other listeners is they love it when they disagree with us because they love to scream at us.

Brad Shreve:
And they love it when they agree with us because they love to squeal and dislike. That's the whole purpose of this show. So if you are going to be open minded and maybe listen and learn from that, please continue. On the other hand, if that's not what you're going to do, I hope you're not even listening to this because if you hate us that much, then maybe it's best if you don't continue to listen. The reason why I'm going to read it, I'm reading it is because this guy who didn't get it gave us one star. So you were listening and you realize that that brings our average. Please go and rate and review this show because we need our average back up due to Angry. Lf.

Brad Shreve:
So that's why I want and I wanted to do it first because we want to end on a high note. And so I'm going to let you do your review here, Tony.

Tony Maietta:
We'll balance that out with. I don't really know how to say this name. It's Steph Mitch Kr so S T E F M I C H K R and he gave us a five star Mr. Angry. And he said yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes is his title. He says. So happy I found you both. If you love, hate, or simply have opinions on movies, you'll love this pod.

Tony Maietta:
Which I think is pretty much what you were saying, Brad. Pretty much what you were saying.

Brad Shreve:
My gosh, that's somebody that gets it.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, exactly. So, Brad, this has been a long podcast, a long season. I think I said 37 episodes. I personally did. What? Is there anything else you want to say about the show or the podcast or anything else?

Brad Shreve:
As I always say to piggyback off everything we just talked about, if you enjoy our show, please, we don't get paid for this. The way we get paid is by your enjoyment of the show. So please go rate and review us because that way you'll let others know that you enjoy the show and they'll say, hey, maybe I'll like it too.

Tony Maietta:
That's right, absolutely do that. Listen to some of the old ones, leave us a review, rate us five stars, and that's great. And since this is indeed our season finale, I want to thank all of the guests we had throughout the season to help us out. We had some really great guests and I think we have some ideas for some really cool ones for next season. And it is also our unofficial holiday film. So I want to wish everybody a very, very happy holiday season.

Brad Shreve:
And one thing I do want to add, we had more movies this season that were suggested by listeners. Not as many as I would like. So please, listeners, offer us your suggestions as to the movies that you want us to do now. Sometimes we don't do them because we feel like we've done that decade already a lot and we try to do movies before 1990, but please let us know what you want. First of all, let us know what you think of our reviews and let us know what you would like us to talk about.

Tony Maietta:
I Love the idea. GoingHollywoodPodmail.com thank you. So my friend from across the miles. I wish you and Maurice. Thank you again, Maurice. A very happy, happy holiday. I guess there's only one thing left to say, but I'm too exhausted to say it, so let's not say goodbye. Let's just say jungle Red, Sylvia.

Maurice Chevalier:
Jungle Red.

Brad Shreve:
Well, normally I'd say, no, let's say goodbye. But I'm going to go with you on that one. We'll say it Jungle Red, Sylvia.

Tony Maietta:
Goodbye, everybody.

Maurice Chevalier:
Bye.