Tony Maietta:
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions, too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
It doesn't matter what you look like.

Tony Maietta:
It doesn't matter.

Brad Shreve:
What does matter is the size of your heart and the strength of your character.

Tony Maietta:
So, as I was saying. So we're back for part two of our Adams v. Munsters episodes. And you know, we kind of made an impromptu decision last week that we were going to break this into two episodes which we hadn't originally planned to do, but.

Brad Shreve:
But you left out that you couldn't shut your mouth and you were talking too much and it went way too long. So we decided we going to have to make it into a two parter.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, well, I guess so. Anyway, if I remember correctly. Let me think about this for a minute. We were talking. You were saying that the reason the Addams Family seems to continue to this day is because it can be presented in color. As opposed to the Munsters, which has to be in black and white as a reference to the old Universal monster movies it's based on.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, because of the reference to the Universal monster movies primarily. But also because they just never got the color to work. That it didn't just look bad.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, well, you know, that's interesting because as I know you know, the original 15 minute pilot of the Munsters that's available on YouTube was shot in color. And after it was filmed, there was a debate about whether or not the series should be shot in color, should be shot in black and white. You know, which, which doesn't make sense to me. If you're going to be spoofing the Universal horror films of the 30s, it shouldn't be in color. Color just doesn't work. So not sure why they bothered with filming the pilot in color.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, and I hope we get into the pilot. I don't want to get into the pilot right now, but I will say watch the pilot because the network said this, this looks weird. You need to make this black and white. And there were other decisions made. And if you watch this pilot, you're going to say you're going to get down on your knees and thank God they made the decisions they did, otherwise it wouldn't have made it two seasons.

Tony Maietta:
I want to talk about the pilot because it's important and we'll talk about some of those differences. But let me give a little background on how the Munsters came about, because we talked about how the Adams family came about. So, as Brad has said, the Munsters are basically Universal's horror films. Now. Last season we talked about the Bride of Frankenstein. And so that's all you got to think about. Frankenstein, the Bride of Frankenstein. Universal sold its.

Tony Maietta:
Incredible. For people who didn't listen to our episode last season, shame on you. You know, Universal was the home of horror in the 30s. Dracula, bride of Frankenstein, Frankenstein, the Invisible Man. This was Universal's bread and butter. And they were hugely, hugely popular. Starring Boris Karloff, starring Bela Lugosi. It went on and on and on.

Tony Maietta:
So they had this huge library which they sold to TV in the 50s, and there was kind of like a monster renaissance that monsters were Suddenly in the 50s because these movies could now be seen on television. So there was a real fervor in the late 50s, early 60s for these monster films. But for. And this is where. This is where it kind of diverges. It's really interesting. So Universal is the home of the monster, of the monster movie. And actually, it was in 1945 that the idea that animator Bob Clampett, who was the animator behind Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, Daffy Duck, he was the first one to suggest to Universal that they should take these creatures they owned and make comical animated versions of them.

Tony Maietta:
And he had all. He approached Universal in 1945 with this idea and he never heard back. And it wasn't until the 60s that this monster renaissance was happening with the Universal monster, the Universal monster films that Universal went, remember that idea that guy gave us that we didn't even think about? This might be something. And at the exact same time, and here we go again with two projects happening that come together. A similar idea to the Addams Family was submitted to Universal by none other than Friend of the Pod, Alan Burns, co creator of the Mary Tyler Moore show, and his friend Chris Hayward, who worked on the Adventures of Rocky in Bullwinkle in France. And Alan Byrne said their idea, what's much closer to the Addams Family in spirit. And Universal's like, we can't touch this. This is, you know, pass.

Tony Maietta:
And they went away. And then they thought, wait a minute, we're thinking about the comic idea from Bob Clampett. Here's an idea for a show. Let's bring them together. The only problem was they neglected to get the permission of Alan Burns and Chris Hayward. Oh, you gotta love studio executives. Such great guys. So Alan Burns and Chris Hayward got the WGA involved the Writers Guild of America and said, no, these guys get credit.

Tony Maietta:
So that's why you see a credit for Alan Burns and Chris Hayward on the monsters.

Brad Shreve:
And I, I need to jump in on something else. You know, you're talking about the Universal monsters.

Tony Maietta:
Sure.

Brad Shreve:
As we discussed in the Bride of Frankenstein episode, in the late 50s, when Universal decided to start releasing these, the local TV stations were encouraged to create a show on Saturday nights. And so Creature and these, they were all had the same name, but they were local shows with the local host Creature Feature, which we used to watch out of Chicago all the time whenever we could get our antenna adjusted just right in Michigan to get it the Chicago station. And yes, we had antennas in my household. I'm that old. So that's when these monsters, along with lots of other horrible monster movies became really prominent and were played in people's living rooms. Which made it perfect timing for this series.

Tony Maietta:
No, exactly. They had the built in audience. They had the built in audience. And so Universal's like, let's use these characters that we already own. Frankenstein, Dracula. Lily's a vampire, you know, the, the wolf, Little Eddie's a werewolf, the Wolf Man. Let's, you know, we already own these people. Let's make them the stars of the show and let's make it comical.

Tony Maietta:
And that's how it came. And indeed it is a. The show is developed as a standard 60s sitcom nuclear family. Like I just Said the beginning is exactly the same as the Donna Rico. That was the point. That was the gimmick that was. The funny thing is that the monsters are your typical average family. They just happen to look that way.

Tony Maietta:
They just happen to look a little differently. And this is really interesting. And a lot of people don't see this. I mean, you have to look. You kind of have to look closely at it. But there's some real little allusions here to what was going on in the mid-60s. What was going on in the mid-60s. Civil rights, the end of segregation.

Tony Maietta:
And you'll see, like some of the neighbors, some of the Munsters neighbors are not too happy that they're living next door to this family that doesn't look like them, that's a different color, that has different customs. So there are some real interesting social comments in the Munsters that just kind of. They're not thrown in your face, but I find that fascinating. Did you pick up on any of those?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, I have picked up on that before. They also seem much more willing to talk about current events than. I don't remember that ever being done on the Addams Family.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
What really endears me to the Munsters is the fact that this is supposed to be just a typical all American family. You know, I think of. I can't think of the two guys names, do South Park, Trey and.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I don't know.

Brad Shreve:
I'm sorry, I don't remember their names. They did that series called that's My Bush, which was not all that great, but what I loved about it. If you've ever. Have you ever seen it?

Tony Maietta:
No, no, I'm not a big fan.

Brad Shreve:
It was the Bush family in the White House, but it was every sitcom stereotype. They had their next kooky next door neighbor that was always coming over, you know, it just. It was really well done in that way. And that's the reason why I like the Munsters. It was the same thing. We're just an average American family living here, middle, middle class, neighborhood, suburb like everyone else. But we just happen to be monsters.

Tony Maietta:
I think it's in the pilot of the Munsters when their neighbor. When. Yeah, it is the pilot that one of their neighbors has put up a fence because she doesn't want those people on her property. I mean, it's really. When you. When you look at it from that viewpoint of the little social digs, the social issues, it's really kind of brilliant in a way. You don't think of the monsters that way, but there's Some very interesting comments being made on the monsters. I love the Munsters.

Tony Maietta:
I think the reason I think I love the monsters more is I love the cast. Yes, I think the cast is so much fun. They're so much fun. Primarily your two majors. Now, I love Yvonne de Carlo, and we'll talk about Yvonne de Carlo, but this show really is the Herman and Grandpa show. Yes, this show really is Fred Gwynn and Al Lewis. They who play Herman and who play Grandpa. They had worked together before in car 54, where are you? And, you know, there's a lot of talk out there on the Internet that they really are kind of like a Laurel and Hardy.

Tony Maietta:
They really are like Abbott and Costello, Lucy and Ethel. They worked that well together, and they wanted them both in this show. And because they were so well. They worked so well together in car 54, where are you? Except, of course, they weren't monsters in car 54, where are you? They were normal. They were policemen. They didn't have these outfits on. They didn't have this makeup on, which took two hours every day to get into. But I think that's fascinating.

Tony Maietta:
And we talked about. We said, we're going to talk about the pilot. Those two were in the pilot. But did you know who the original. Original. Who the Universal originally went to to ask to play Grandpa before Fred Gwyn and Al Lewis?

Brad Shreve:
No. I had information that somebody was different in the. In the pilot, Right. And when I watched the pilot, I'm like, no, that's Al Lewis. That must have been some bad information. So, no, I have no idea.

Tony Maietta:
They went to Bert Lahr to play, and he turned it down. Having probably from the memories of the makeup process as the Cowardly lion and the wizard of Oz, he's like, I'm not doing that again. It's a terrible fert Lahr. I'm not doing that again. So he turned it down. But they got Al Lewis and Freddie, which is wonderful. But you're right, in the pilot, which I said it's 15 minutes, there are different characters. There are different actors playing Herman's wife, who is not Lily.

Tony Maietta:
Her name is Phoebe, and she looks a lot like. Well, we'll get into that. And another actor playing Eddie, the little boy, Phoebe was played by an actress named Joan Marshall. And I love this name. And Eddie was played by an actor named Happy Dermot. And if ever a name was inappropriate, it's this name. Because this kid in this pilot is anything but happy. You don't want to get your hand anywhere near this kid.

Tony Maietta:
He would have snapped it off. He's such a funny. Not at all like the Eddie we see on the TV show. Did you know that?

Brad Shreve:
It's only funny because of. They fixed the problem. Yeah, because. And I'm so glad to hear that. The test that they did on this, people were like, no, that kid isn't working. It was clever, but it really. It detracted. I guess we should say he was more like a werewolf.

Brad Shreve:
He was snarling and biting and just. He just. He was feral.

Tony Maietta:
He wasn't happy and wasn't happy.

Brad Shreve:
No, he wasn't happy. And he was also a snotty little brat. But, I mean, Eddie had his moments, but this Eddie, he was. He was a real monster. And when you think of the fact that this is a family that's supposed to be an all American family.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
That really went against the whole thing. And I think that's why it didn't work with the audiences. And I'm glad that changed.

Tony Maietta:
Well, and also. And the reason that. Yes, I think you're absolutely right. So they wanted to go with a more all American little boy. And that's why they got Butch Patrick to play Eddie. And he's just basically a little kid with pointy ears and a strange widow's peak. Other than that, he's a normal kid. Oh, he sleeps in.

Tony Maietta:
You know, he's also howls at the moon, but otherwise he's a typical normal kid who needs a babysitter and, you know, has the same issues. Joan Marshall, who was originally cast as Herman's wife, and again, her name was Phoebe, not Lily. There was another problem there, and that is that she's too similar to Carolyn Jones as Morticia. And they're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Can't do that. Can't do that. We got to go in the totally opposite direction. We.

Tony Maietta:
Because they. By this time, they knew these shows were happening and she was just too similar to Tisha. So they went another direction and they turned to a movie star named Yvonne DiCarlo. Now, I'll go in a little bit of background about Yvonne, but what's interesting is that Fred Gwynne and Al Lewis were so tight in their comic chemistry in their duo ship, they were a little nervous about Yvonne DiCarlo, because Yvonne DiCarlo was not known for playing comedy. She was a movie star. She was Moses wife in the Ten Commandments. And she was mostly usually always just set dressing. She was a gorgeous, gorgeous woman in.

Tony Maietta:
In the 50s. She was just basically a voluptuous, gorgeous woman who didn't seem to have a lot of humor in her.

Brad Shreve:
She was beautiful.

Tony Maietta:
She was beautiful. But here's the thing about Yvonne. People always, always, always didn't give her credit. They always misjudged Yvonne de Carlo. They did this later and I'll get into it. When she did Follies, the Steven Sondheim show. Follies. She introduced the song I'm still here.

Tony Maietta:
Nobody knew she could sing. Here she is stopping the show practically every night singing this song. So same thing. They didn't. They. I don't want to say they counted her out, but they didn't give her enough credit. And it's, as it turns out, she is, was, is a wonderful comic actress and she really is the heart of the Munsters. She gives, she gives this show.

Tony Maietta:
She's the mother. She's the heart of the show. And Gwen and Lewis absolutely fell in love with her. And that's why the show works, because it's such great chemistry between all of them. Don't you think?

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. To her credit, her. This was the Herman Grandpa show, but it's because they played. She was the everyman that we've talked about with all these crazy shows. Brandon. She was kind of a mix between Frankenstein's wife and vampire. Right? But she was the most level headed one in the family. I'm not counting Marilyn.

Brad Shreve:
She was a level 101, the family. She's the one that they played well off of each other. She grounded the show.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, yeah, it's true. I think so too. I think, I think she's. She's wonderful. She's wonderful.

Brad Shreve:
And I think her dramatic role to me is kind of like Leslie Nielsen. The reason why he worked is because he was a dramatic actor. She played, you know, Herman was silly and Grandpa Ver Celli, even though they played themselves straight, she really played Lily as straight. Like Lily doing odd things like having the vacuum cleaner blow out dust and just acting like that's a normal thing housewives do. She really came across to me much more as this is a normal thing.

Tony Maietta:
She's so funny. You know, again, people never gave her the credit she deserved because she was so beautiful. People always thought, oh, she's just, you know, one trick pony. No, she showed them too. More than, as I said, on more than one occasion, not just this show. So there wasn't. There's one more character. The poor unfortunate Marilyn who was in the pilot, played by Beverly Owen.

Brad Shreve:
Thank you. I couldn't remember her name.

Tony Maietta:
That's all right. She was indeed played by Beverly Owen. But what happened to Beverly Owen in the run of the show Brad, after they decided, okay, we're going to go to series with this.

Brad Shreve:
Well, she was in the first 12 episodes of the series. I believe it was somewhere in that neighborhood.

Tony Maietta:
Right. And.

Brad Shreve:
And I don't. I was going to look it up. Why did she vanish? And I said, no, that is a Tony question. So I am purposely. I personally held back from looking this one up.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, she was in the pilot and they decided, let's take this to series. We're going to make a series out of this. And she was like, oh, shit. She did what actors always do and said yes to the project because she didn't think it was going to be picked up. And guess what? It. It got picked up while her life was in New York. It's one thing to go to LA to film a pilot and then go back home, but when you're suddenly in a series and you know what? God bless her, she's an actress. She said, yes, of course she said yes, she has.

Tony Maietta:
She needs a job. So she did it. But she got very unhappy in Los Angeles because she was engaged to someone back in New York. And so she basically got homesick. Now. Okay. God bless her. I kind of understand that at the same time, you're an actress.

Tony Maietta:
Come on. But I mean, how many actresses would have killed for that part? But she was very unhappy. She was very unhappy. So she.

Brad Shreve:
Especially since there was a top 20 show at that time when she left.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. So she knew she wasn't going to go anywhere. She knew she was in this for a while. And she got home worse and worse, more and more depressed until she finally actually turned to Fred Gwynne and Al Lewis and said, can you help me out? So they actually talked to the producers and. And got her out of her contract. That's why she's only in 13 episodes. And they pulled a. Darren.

Tony Maietta:
There was no change. It was just one week, it was Beverly Owens and the next week Marilyn was Pat Priest. And Pat Priest did the part for the rest of the series and nobody noticed at all. It's just the way it was.

Brad Shreve:
It's pretty amazing they let her go. Especially at that time when studios were not known for being carried.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I think it was because Fred Gwynn and now Lewis came to bat for her. And she said that. She said that to the end of her life. She was grateful to them. And she went back to New York and got married and later got divorced. But she was happy for a while. She was glad she was out of it. And Pat Priest was sure as hell happy she got the job because, you know, she's an actress.

Tony Maietta:
She wanted the job. So Pat Priest, who was actually the daughter of the US Secretary of the Treasury, I love these things you find out on these fan websites. Ivy Baker Priest. So she was great. She had a job. Everybody was happy. The show continued. And the show, indeed, when it premiered, was a tremendous, tremendous hit.

Tony Maietta:
As I said, it was usually in. It hit the top 10 many of its nights. People loved the show because it was really. It really was funny. They did things. They took these universal characters and they changed them and they made them goofy and funny. Herman, you know, Frankenstein character. Herman went from being this monosyllabic, lumbering deadpan to this really wonderful, childlike, goofy character.

Tony Maietta:
And he and Al Lewis really are like Laurel and Hardy in this. I just love his characterization.

Brad Shreve:
They are in the sense that there's. There's a lot like stand up routines in this series and so many puns. And I love puns. Yeah, I. I love bad puns more than anything. But, yeah, there were a lot of stand up routines such as the one I remember most because I thought it was hysterical as a kid when, you know, Herman. It wasn't either of these two episodes, but I remember it so well when Herman said things were so busy at the funeral parlor that people are just dying to get in. That's a slappy.

Brad Shreve:
What's his name? That's Vaudevillian, right there.

Tony Maietta:
It is, it is. Do you happen to know that the name of Herman. The funeral parlor is Gateman, Goodberry and Graves? And how perfect that Herman works there. And he started out as a box boy in 1953. His first job is a box boy. But you mentioned some of the. Some of the fun things, you know, that the Munsters had in their house. You know, I was.

Tony Maietta:
As a kid, I was always. Because I was always obsessed with stairways and back stairs. We talked about that before. They had a back stairway in their kitchen. But I was obsessed with, you know, you would pull down on the. On the banister, the. I can't think of what it's called on a stairway. You know, you'd pull down that thing and it would open up and that's where Spot was their pet dragon.

Tony Maietta:
I. Oh, that was so. I was. That was so cool. I was like, I want to see the stairway open up. And I was also obsessed with the coffin. That was the phone booth. Oh, yes, the way it would turn.

Tony Maietta:
We talked about the vacuum cleaner that blew dust I think, though, probably the most iconic thing out of the whole series, out of everything, was their car, the Munster Coach, the Munster Mobile, which I believe was actually three Model Ts in one. It was 18ft long, and it cost $20,000 to make in 1964. And I'm telling you, every kid, I don't care who you were, I don't care what orientation you were, you wanted a copy of that car. You wanted a toy copy of that car, which Universal merchandised, by the way. They merchandise the hell out of the Munsters. And that was one of the things you could get, was the Munster. Can you imagine how much something like that would be worth today to have one of those original ones?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, unbelievable. And I will say that every kid probably wanted that until. And it was only in one episode, but people remember it well, was Grandpa's Dragster. And I can't remember for the life of me what it was called.

Tony Maietta:
It was called the Dracula.

Brad Shreve:
The Dracula, yes. That is the one I wanted. And I was shocked when I heard it was only in that one episode because I remember as a kid thinking that was the coolest thing I'd ever. I loved their car. I thought that was great. But as soon as I saw that drag thing, I was like, that is amazing.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it was great. It was great. Yeah. That came in the second season. Something else that happened in the second season is that for some reason, the show became sillier, it became broader and they put more slapstick in it. And this did not sit well with Fred Gwynne and Al Lewis. They liked the way things were going. They didn't know why.

Tony Maietta:
And if you do watch some second season episodes, we're gonna talk about a second season episode. It is sillier. The second season, the beginning is sillier. It's when Herman comes barreling through the door of the mansion, and that's how it starts. And it's just. It's a lot broader than the first season. Particularly the Beverly Owen episodes. As I said about Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie in the Black and White, there's a fantastical quality to them, which is kind of wonderful.

Tony Maietta:
And the second part of the second season of the monsters, they just do seem like silly sitcom episodes. They're still entertaining, but they're not. I don't find them quite as interesting as I do the early, early ones where you're really. They were really finding their way and really doing some really cool, cool things. But here's an interesting little tidbit for you do you know that Al Lewis. We talked about Al Lewis in they Shoot Horses, Don't They? He was in they Shoot Horses, Don't They? And we said, how long was this guy alive? He was around forever. Well, do you know he was only 41 when he played Grandpa. Did you see that? Did you know that?

Brad Shreve:
No, I didn't. I didn't think to look that up.

Tony Maietta:
He was one year younger than his daughter Lily. Yvonne DiCarlo.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, my gosh.

Tony Maietta:
Yvonne DiCarlo was 42, and Al Lewis playing her father was 41. But I mean, is that makeup? You know, which also changed. It got lighter. Lily's hair changed a little bit. She used to have this big wide streak down it. And it got. It got different. So they just got a little more Monster Next Door, Like Monster Next Door, like is the series.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, yeah. And let me tell you, before we get into the episodes, I'm going to tell you the things that I'm trying to think of the right word because it's not bothered me at all because I thought it was added to the humor of the show. But things that I found questionable. For example, why did a Frankenstein monster and a vampire daughter have a werewolf as a child?

Tony Maietta:
Because Universal owned them. That's why.

Brad Shreve:
It was great. The thing that really creeps me out, though, the opening sequence. Grandpa is Lily's father, yet he goes to bite her. And Grandpa, you know, we know that interview with the vampire made Dracula homoerotic, but he's also always been kind of an erotic character.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
So the simple when he goes to bed. And actually in the pilot, if you noticed, he goes for her neck.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
So that really made me cringe. Again, it's all part. To me, it's all part of the fun. But, like, even as a kid, I'd like. Wait a minute. Well, that's kind of weird.

Tony Maietta:
He was a vampire. He was always doing that.

Brad Shreve:
I know.

Tony Maietta:
She was always going, grandpa, Grandpa. I was wondering why she called him Grandpa. Why would she call him dad? He was not.

Brad Shreve:
I don't know. And you know, that is true. And the other thing. Well, actually, who was. Oh, Grandma. Never mind. Grandmama was a. Was a Grandmama.

Brad Shreve:
The other thing is, was Grandpa a vampire or was he a mad scientist?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, exactly.

Brad Shreve:
Or was he a witch slash warlock? Because he had all of those things.

Tony Maietta:
He had all of those. He had all of those things because Universal owned all of them. And they used all the old props from. From all of the old movies. So they wanted to be sure they hit every single one of Them? Yeah, absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And again, when I'm bringing that up, it's not because it's a complaint. I think it was all part of the fun. But it did make. Sometimes it makes me go, yeah, I know, I know.

Tony Maietta:
It's very funny. It's very funny. It's very funny. All right, so let's talk a little bit about this show, the Munsters. We're again, talking about two episodes. So, as I said, the Munsters premiered on CBS September 24th in 1964. It was 70 episodes, as opposed to the Addams Family, which had a few less episodes. And we're going to talk about two episodes.

Tony Maietta:
I believe my episode is up first. No, your episode is up first, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
My episode's up first?

Tony Maietta:
Yes, your episode is up first. Brad's episode is called Country Club Munsters. It's from season one. It's episode three. 30. It aired on April 15, 1965. It was directed by Joseph Pevney, written by Doug Tibbles, Norm Liebman, and Ed Hass, and tell us about Country Club Munsters, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
Well, Herman participated in some kind of contest and happened to one. This confused me. They said he won $5,000, but later it was a admission to a country club. That was kind of an odd thing. But anyway, they wanted. They won membership into a country club, and Herman was very excited because he wanted to move up in the world. And so they decided to. They were going to check it out and see if this country club suited them.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
Well, of course, the country club members of the country club were not thrilled. And I. The guy that was least thrilled, I. You're gonna have to say who that character was, because I. I know him from a thousand things, but I don't know his name.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, he's. Yeah, he's a character actor from.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, character actor, big time. So anyway, he. The country club said, well, we need to watch this family and make sure they suit us. So it's on both sides.

Tony Maietta:
Make sure they're the right kind of people. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, absolutely. But I love the fact that once again, we get back to this family of monsters that want to just be normal and join a country club just like other people want to move up in the world and are acting like everything's perfectly normal. And everybody at this country club is just plain weird. And there were so many parts of this episode that made me giggle.

Tony Maietta:
It's just so silly. It's so silly, the fact that you have, you know, they think that you have a vampire and a vampire coming into this country club. And the comments are not like, you know, she must have tied one on, because they're doing a fashion show in the country club. It's kind of like in the women, the zips up the back with no bones. She's. She walked. They walk around the country club, these models, and they're modeling things. And Lily thinks it's just very friendly people telling her what they're wearing and how much it costs, where they bought.

Brad Shreve:
It, and how much they paid. How friendly is that?

Tony Maietta:
How friendly is that?

Brad Shreve:
That was my first huge giggle.

Tony Maietta:
That was so polite. I love that. Lily says when they decide they're going to go to the country club to check it out, she's going to put on her new Transylvania original. And it's the same dress she always wears. It's that same dress she never changed. And the same coat made out of coffin lining. And it's like, this is. It's the exact same dress, Lily.

Tony Maietta:
But so Lily does it. I love when Lily walks around with it and goes, coffin lining. And they're just like, oh, that. Get that drunk out of here. They think she's drunk. It's so funny. It's so funny. And then they're worried, though, that Herman is going to be offended, because eventually they got thrown out, because eventually they're like, they're not.

Tony Maietta:
Get these people out of here. And so Lily and Grandpa are worried that Herman is going to. Gonna go play golf there to test it out. And they're worried that Herman's gonna get upset because, you know, Herman will just fall to pieces. And it took us much too long the last time that happened to put them back together. So Herman goes to play golf, and he just destroys that. He destroys that. That golf course.

Tony Maietta:
It's hysterically funny.

Brad Shreve:
And there's where they really caught me off guard. It took a turn that I wasn't expecting it, because I remembered loving this episode, but I didn't remember all the details. And I thought for sure that Herman would be on an outing with the other club members, golfing. And it wasn't a wrong decision. I think it worked really well. But that was my assumption where it was gonna go. And when it wound up just being he and Eddie on the golf course.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
I was like, oh, this is interesting.

Tony Maietta:
It was interesting, but it was just such funny stuff. I mean. Cause he's, you know, he's Frankenstein. As you can imagine, his power, his strength is overwhelming. So he just. He's just hurling those golf clubs and just. It's just normal to them. It's just.

Tony Maietta:
It's just the way life is. And they decide not to, because what happens in the end? They decide not to join the country club after all. Because. Because Herman destroys the country club. And they hear on the radio or they hear on the television that a vandal has destroyed the country club. And, like, we don't belong to a place that allows vandals in. They don't realize it was Herman who did it. It's cute.

Tony Maietta:
Cute.

Brad Shreve:
He tore that golf course apart.

Tony Maietta:
It's funny. It's a great episode. I love that episode. I'm glad you picked that episode.

Brad Shreve:
I am, too. You know what's one thing that really impressed me about that episode is while he and Eddie were on the golf course and it was clearly a matte background showing the. You know, they had the. They were on the green or on the. The. Where you drive the ball. I can't think of that. And there was a man in the background, yet you could see sprinklers in the background.

Brad Shreve:
And they had the sprinkler sounds running. I was really impressed they went. That extra detail.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I wasn't sure. I was like, is this outside? It really. I wasn't sure because, you know, they filmed on Universal's lot. So I was like, is this outside? But it wasn't outside. It was a set. But, yeah, I thought that struck me, too. I thought that was very.

Tony Maietta:
That was very interesting. It was very unusual. That's a fun episode.

Brad Shreve:
That's a little added cost that they didn't always put into TV shows that time.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. You know, it's hard to pick episodes. I don't think it was quite as hard because there's only two seasons of both these shows. So I didn't have as difficult a time. But it was because it's been so long since I really looked into this show, since I was a kid. My memories of it aren't as sharp as they are for, obviously, the Mary Tyler Moore show or for the Golden Girls or even for Bewitched. So looking through these episodes, I'm like, oh, that one. I remember that one.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I remember that one. But my episode is one I did not remember. And I'm so glad I picked it because I loved it. It's so unusual. It's such an unusual. And it's not only that. It was Fred Gwynn's favorite episode of the Munsters. And there's a very good reason for it, because my episode is called Just Another Pretty Face.

Tony Maietta:
It's from season two, episode 17. It aired on January 13, 1966. Directed by Gene Reynolds, who was a primary director of MASH. Later in the 70s, written by Richard Baer, who wrote a lot of episodes of Bewitched, Norm Liebman and Ed Haas. And it had a very special guest star. Their guest star was. You remember the guest star who played the doctor, Dr. Dudley.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Who was the same guy we know.

Tony Maietta:
And love, Tom DeLuise. Good old Tom DeLuise played the doctor. Now, Paul Lin had done guest stars as their is their pcp. The Munster's primary care physician is usually Paul Lynn. But Herman had to go to a specialist. He had to go to a plastic surgeon. Because the plot of the episode is in just another Pretty Face. Grandpa is working on a machine that he says will bring about world peace.

Tony Maietta:
And he tells Herman, do not go down into the basement to the dungeon and mess with my machine. Well, of course Herman doesn't listen to him. Sneaks down.

Brad Shreve:
Herman's a big child.

Tony Maietta:
Herman is a big child. Exactly. Sneaks down into the laboratory at night to play with it. He gets hit by a bolt of lightning, resulting in a terrible, terrible disfigurement.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, he was hideous.

Tony Maietta:
He looks like a regular human being. He's Fred Gwynn.

Brad Shreve:
And I was rather surprised. I didn't realize how handsome that Fred Gwynn was.

Tony Maietta:
My God.

Brad Shreve:
Plays these very odd characters.

Tony Maietta:
My thought exactly, Brad. I went, Fred Gwynn, you're kind of a looker. I mean, he really. He really was a handsome guy. Granted, he had extreme features. He had the chin. He didn't have the flat head, though. He had a beautiful head of hair.

Tony Maietta:
And when you see Fred.

Brad Shreve:
And that's why I. I think that's why I was surprised that he was handsome, because he does have very odd features.

Tony Maietta:
He does. But they all kind of like Sophia Loren. They all kind of come together and work.

Brad Shreve:
They worked.

Tony Maietta:
And it's funny because when I think about Fred Gwynn later, I mean, in My Cousin Vinny and in the movies he did later on, you don't think of him as a good looking guy. You're like, oh, that's the guy from the Munsters without his makeup. But he really was a very, very good looking guy. And I love that about it. Fred Gwynn obviously loved it because for the first time, he didn't have to go through two hours of makeup. He could actually just act. And the second thing I noticed was. And you might have noticed this too, Brad, because he's not in his monster makeup as Fred Gwynn.

Tony Maietta:
As a person, just in norm, looking normal. You realize how much mugging he did as Herman because he does the same amount of mugging, but it's so obvious when he's not camouflaged by that, by that makeup, I'm thinking, oh, that totally.

Brad Shreve:
Jumped out at me.

Tony Maietta:
Brad's gonna love this. He makes Martha Ray look like Bea Arthur. He's so.

Brad Shreve:
But you know what? It works for him.

Tony Maietta:
It does work for him. It does work. It works much better when he's in the Herman makeup because you don't realize it, but when he's just Fred Gwynn, he's rolling his eyes, his mouth is curling. It's very funny that you notice what a. What a mugger this guy was.

Brad Shreve:
Jarring.

Tony Maietta:
It's jarring. It really is jarring. And I think that's one of the fascinating things about the episode is you're like, oh, we're seeing Fred Gwynn behind the curtain. We're basically seeing the naked Fred Gwynn.

Brad Shreve:
I want to back up to my cousin Vinny because I've seen Fred Gwynn and other things, obviously. Was he in Pet Sematary? He's one of the Stephen King ones.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
My cousin Vinnie was the first time that I thought, this is a really talented actor who can play do a lot more than he's. He was very funny in the role. And he wasn't Herman Munster.

Tony Maietta:
Well, exactly. Well, you know, the thing about Fred Gwynn was he was an incredible all around guy. He was a Harvard grad.

Brad Shreve:
Oh.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, he went. He went to Harvard. He was. First of all, he was 6 foot 7.

Brad Shreve:
All right.

Tony Maietta:
Al Lewis was 6 foot 1. But of course, next to 6 foot 7, he looks like he's a shrimp. But yes, he was. Not only was he a very accomplished actor, he was in Fatal Attraction afterwards. Pet Sematary. Right. My cousin Vinny, do you know he became an accomplished children's book author and illustrator in his second act of life.

Brad Shreve:
I had no clue.

Tony Maietta:
So he was a hell of a lot more accomplished than Herman and the kind of zany, goofy characters he played. But to his credit, you know, I think a little bit like Adam west, he was a little hesitant about accepting this ridiculous fame he had because of the Munsters, but he actually grew to embrace it. He was like, you know what? If it gives people pleasure? I got a million other things I can do. I can write. Kids, you know, what the hell?

Brad Shreve:
And I think part of what helped is if you. If you see interviews or read anything about him, he had fun doing this episode. He had fun doing the series. He liked that character. So he did. May have stereotyped him. He. He had fun.

Tony Maietta:
He made Frankenstein's monster into one of the most lovable, charming, sweetest characters that has ever been on television. Think about that for a minute. It's Frankenstein's monster, you know, and he's adorable as Herman. You love Herman. I think that's one of the reasons why I love this show more than the Addams Family, is that I love Herman. I love these people. They touch me. They're sweet.

Tony Maietta:
There's a sweetness to them that you don't have.

Brad Shreve:
There is a very big sweetness to them. They are. Yeah, it's a warm, loving family.

Tony Maietta:
So. So what happens is, is that Lily takes Herman to Dr. Dudley, as we said, the aforementioned Dom DeLuise, to ask if anything can be done to this poor, unfortunate Herman via plastic surgery. And of course, Dr. Dudley's like, are you crazy? He looks great. No, I'm not going to touch him. So Dom DeLuise is out, but Grandpa, who seems to have completely forgotten about this world peace thing he was trying to do, he gets out Herman's original blueprints, which were a gift from Dr. Frankenstein, to see if he can put his son in law back together again the way he was meant to be.

Tony Maietta:
So he straps him in the. In the. It's right out of Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein. He straps him in the. In the bed, or whatever it's called, with the cuffs and everything. He goes up with a bolt of lightning. Hits, Hit by the bolt of lightning, he brings him down and he's almost Herman, except he forgot to specify the gender. So Herman is now Hermione.

Brad Shreve:
And I love how he deals with it.

Tony Maietta:
What? That's another thing I love about this episode. It's really kind of no big deal. They're like, oh, okay. I mean, actually, of course they're like, oh, we miss Herman. Lily's like, I kind of want my husband back. But they're also accepting of Hermione. She gets a job as a cocktail waitress.

Brad Shreve:
That's what I was gonna say. I love that. Okay, He's. He. This is who she. Who he is. This is who she is now. So let's get her a job as a cocktail.

Tony Maietta:
It's. It's.

Brad Shreve:
I would love to have seen a seat in that bar.

Tony Maietta:
They're all, you know, they're kind of wistful, like, oh, we miss Herman, but we really like Hermione. I mean, they're so accepting it's a really great little comment. Another hero social comment of accepting people in their gender identities. But.

Brad Shreve:
And you know, have you seen the. It floats around on YouTube and they post it on social media a lot where Herman is giving a lecture to Eddie. It's from one of the episodes, I don't know which one, where he's given Eddie an. A lecture on acceptance and accepting other people.

Tony Maietta:
No, I don't think I've. I don't think I've ever seen this.

Brad Shreve:
In addition to the pilot, we are going to put a link to that in the show notes. And it is so. I'm sorry, folks for using the word. It is so woke. I love him to death.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, that's sweet. The Munchers was ahead of its time, I'm telling you. Right?

Brad Shreve:
It really was.

Tony Maietta:
It really was ahead of its time. So, I mean, this sounds like a lot's happening in this episode for a 25 minute episode. And a lot does. So we got to get to the end real quick. And that is, is that pretty much like at the end of the Bad Seed, when Christine Penmark was unable to kill Rhoda with the sleeping pills, just like Grandpa's unable to. To turn Herman Hermione back into Herman. God says, here, Grandpa, hold my beer. And Herman goes outside, gets hit, struck by a bolt of lightning, and magically turns back into the Herman we all know and love.

Tony Maietta:
And that's the end of Just Another Pretty Face, a really sweet, funny episode of the Munsters. I love this episode.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, of course, one of the very funny things to me is when he was struck by lightning at the very end there, his dress vanished and he was back into those Herman monster clothes.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, it's a fantasy. It's the monsters.

Brad Shreve:
So it wasn't just a physical change?

Tony Maietta:
No, Everything but God's like, I'm taking care of this.

Brad Shreve:
I didn't remember when you picked this episode and I only partially remembered as I'm watching it, certainly Never remember Dom DeLuise, but when I was a kid, I wouldn't have known who he was. But when I saw him in the curls, I'm like, oh, it's this episode. And I remember we used to laugh and laugh and laugh at it.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I think there's more than one episode where Herman's in curls, though, I.

Brad Shreve:
Think, oh, it could have been a.

Tony Maietta:
Couple episodes where he. Where he tries a little bit of that. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's so sweet. It's so sweet. I love this episode. So that's the Munsters and the Addams Family. So we talked about them. I think we need to talk about, unfortunately, what happened, because as we said, you know, they were huge hits.

Tony Maietta:
Their first season, the Addams Family, Munsters, I told you 18. And I think I said 25, respectively. And then the second season happened. And do you know what happened in the second season that just basically took the shows, Just basically destroyed the shows.

Brad Shreve:
I do know what happened. And I will say it is one of the most ironic moments in television history, because, like, these two shows, it was a blockbuster hit that killed them and then dropped like a rock.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. What was it?

Brad Shreve:
Batman.

Tony Maietta:
Batman. Batman killed the Munsters and the Addams Family, by the way.

Brad Shreve:
And the Addams Family.

Tony Maietta:
But primarily the monsters. Primarily the monsters, yeah. Because Batman premiered and was an immediate cultural phenomenon. So much so that it aired. It aired twice a week, one on Wednesdays and Thursdays. So the Munsters were on Thursday. So it was directly opposite the Munsters. And.

Tony Maietta:
And here's where this idea to film the Munsters in black and white bit CBS and Universal in the ass. It was in color. And this was the time when color TV was finally taking off. And, you know, so the monsters just couldn't compete anymore. And I also think, though, and I love. A couple of the cast members said this too. You know, as much as we love these shows, as much as we have fond memories and nostalgic memories of them, they really are one trick ponies. You know, they're gimmicks.

Tony Maietta:
And the gimmick eventually starts to go stale. And I feel like that's also what happened. The. The. The show had just. They'd run their course, you know, there was nothing to keep them going and keep them interesting. There was just. There was a one trick pony.

Tony Maietta:
It was one. One joke, and they just ran out of material. What do you think?

Brad Shreve:
You may be right. I'm going to believe that you're not, because I just want to believe that it was just fantastic. But you're probably right. You know, Batman, when it came in, not only was it in color, it set the tone for Laugh in and the Dating Game. It was. Yeah. It wasn't just color. It was color.

Tony Maietta:
It was pow. Bam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was something completely different.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, it was. You think? These were new. That was a totally different direction, which I think was part of its huge success. If nothing else, people were curious.

Tony Maietta:
It was. But I gotta tell you, you really just can't blame one, because they could have moved the Munsters to a different night. They could have Moved it to Monday night.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Could have moved it after Lucy. They could have done something like that. But. And you look at a show like Bewitched. Bewitched ran for eight seasons because of the fact that there was more there than one. A one joke be. Which was. First of all, you had the luminous Elizabeth Montgomery.

Tony Maietta:
So right there. And then you're. You're way far ahead. I love you, Von de Carlo. But Elizabeth Montgomery, come on. And you also had more meat. There were more possibilities for stories. There were children being born.

Tony Maietta:
There were. It was just. It was more. It wasn't a. I'm trying to say it for the fourth time. It wasn't a one trick pony. And I think as much as we love these shows, we have to recognize.

Brad Shreve:
That the more you explain that, the more I disagree with you. Because it could be argued that Bewitch was a one trick pony. It was all about Samantha or Samantha or one of Samantha's relatives does something that gets Darren into trouble. And then the rest of the episode is trying to resolve that issue. And it's all that she is a witch. But like the Munsters, she is a witch in suburban America. And I think the Munsters, maybe the Addams Family was a little stuck in there. They were much more in a bubble.

Brad Shreve:
But the Munsters, I think, could have gone in a million different directions, just like all sitcoms do. And they certainly did follow a lot of the same sitcom tropes that we see over and over and over again.

Tony Maietta:
You're talking about a premise with Bewitched. That's the premise of Bewitched. Just like the premise of I Love Lucy is this woman who wants to get in the show business and her husband won't let her. That's the premise. You build on that premise. That's not what we're talking about with the Munsters. The Munsters was. In the absence.

Tony Maietta:
They were basically one situation. You could only get so many stories out of one situation. You know what I mean? There's. Because the joke is the fact that these people are monsters living in the real world. What are you gonna. I guess they could go to college maybe. But then you. I don't know.

Tony Maietta:
It's still the same joke. You see what I mean? You're doing the same joke over and over again. Yes. And Dora was constantly meddling in Samantha and Darren's lives. But Samantha also had babies. There were clients involved. You know what I'm saying? It's. It's.

Tony Maietta:
It's a different thing. It's premise versus entire show I am.

Brad Shreve:
Not 100% convinced that you're right, though you do have me thinking about one thing. Some of the. Some of the absurdity of the Munsters specifically because the Adams family didn't get out. And about as much is the fact that they would continue to think they're normal. The fact that, yeah, Marilyn probably looked like better than the other girls in her school and were probably. Guys were swooning over her. Well, eventually you would, you know, if the show continued, it was a lot of fun, but the show continued, you'd reach a point where you're like, they would have figured out by now. This is.

Brad Shreve:
This is, for lack of a better word, for the Munsters. This is not realistic.

Tony Maietta:
Well, exactly, Exactly. And you know, the reason she wasn't called Marilyn for nothing? I mean, obviously, who's the other Marilyn you think she was modeled on? I mean, you know who that could be?

Brad Shreve:
I can't think of a song.

Tony Maietta:
Another blonde Marilyn. So, anyway, so, yes, they were both canceled, but like the Addams Family, the Munsters had legs. You know, there was. In 73, there was an animated show called the Mini Munsters. There was a reunion in 81 with Gwen DeCarlo and Lewis reprising their roles in the Munsters. There was a reboot called the munsters today in 1988. There were TV.

Brad Shreve:
That's the one with John Shuck.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. There were TV movies, Christmas specials. There was a 2012 dramedy pilot called Mockingbird Lane that was developed by NBC by the guy who made Pushing Daisies, which is a show I love. And finally, as recently as 2022, there was a brand new film version of the Munsters directed by. Wait for it, Rob Zombie. That's the guy's name. So, I mean, the Munsters, very much like the Addams Family, continue in the culture. They're just never going to go anywhere.

Brad Shreve:
And being one that really enjoys a train wreck, I'm so disappointed that I think the only way I'm able to watch the Rob Zombie is by paying for it on Amazon, and I'm not willing to do that. I looked on every streaming service I have, and we have a lot of them because we get free ones for. Seems like everything that we sign up for, it wasn't on any of them. I was so disappointed. I wanted to watch. I've heard so many horrible things about it, but it didn't happen.

Tony Maietta:
Well, interestingly, Rob Zombie had the reverse problem from his studio, from Universal, when he wanted to do this movie because he wanted to do it in Black and white. White. And Universal insisted it would be in color. So it was the reverse problem of the Munsters of the TV show. There you go.

Brad Shreve:
And the Munsters just doesn't work in color. Just doesn't.

Tony Maietta:
It doesn't. It doesn't. So. So, Brad, what do you. Now, what are your thoughts? I gave my thoughts. What are your thoughts on Adams v. Munsters?

Brad Shreve:
You know, like I said, I can't. The Adams family was well written. It was a clever concept. It did have some supernatural touches to it. But I. And I really like Morticia. I like Fester, though. I got tired of him.

Brad Shreve:
But I did like Fester, and I loved Lurch. But I have a hard time letting go now. As a kid, I didn't know it, but now as an adult, I have a hard time letting go that they were not true to the comments. The other thing that has always bothered me is Gomez. Now, maybe when the show originally aired, it wasn't a big deal, but as a kid, watching the Addams Family every day after school, 30 minutes of Groucho Marx day after day after day is a bit much. And I. There's two things I didn't like. One, I don't like fencing in anything.

Brad Shreve:
I don't like it in TV shows. I don't like it in movies. I find it absolutely boring, no matter how they try to present it. That's why I've never even watched. I don't think I've seen anything with Three Musketeers, because anything to do with fencing, I'm like, tell me when this is over. It bores me to death. So I never liked that. His.

Brad Shreve:
His kissing up Matisse's arms may be funny once or twice. It wasn't a joke that I felt was good for repeating. So I just found the show, like, to me, it was a one trick pony. And time after time after time again, it was just chaos. Their house was total chaos. It didn't have the warmth, funny fuzziness that the Munsters had. That's where I think it failed. It's not a bad show.

Brad Shreve:
It just wasn't my show.

Tony Maietta:
That's interesting. And I don't think it was, and I don't think it was of its time, as we just said. I think that it needed a darker era, and that was certainly coming. Hold on. Here comes the late 60s and 70s and 80s and I mean, yeah, so it needed that dark era, which now it's.

Brad Shreve:
I want to say one thing about the movies. To me, watching the. I haven't seen all of the movies and. But I really loved Raul Gullah as Gomez, but he. Yes, that's really odd because he was nothing like the Gomez in the comics. The one that really was most like Gomez was Luis. Is it Guzman or Guzman?

Tony Maietta:
Guzman.

Brad Shreve:
He was in the 2022 film Guzman. He looked more like Gomez and he acted more like Gomez.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I think that's my take. I think Angelica Houston is perfection as Morticia. I just.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, I agree with you.

Tony Maietta:
Well, Brad, I guess that's our take on Adams v. Munsters. And although I hate to declare a winner, I think we're gonna have to hand it to the residents of 1313 Mockingbird Lane is the clear preference, at least for these podcasters. Right?

Brad Shreve:
I don't hate to declare a winner or hesitate. To me, it's a clear cut winner. Adams Family is a good show, but hands down, the Munsters wins.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I think so. All right then. But before we go, I do want to mention that next week we have a very special episode of Going Hollywood planned. We're going back to the 80s we with a very special episode, but it's a commemoration of sorts. It's something that just happened, so we're not going to abandon our scary air quotes. October month, I believe we have one more movie to talk about, but that will just have to bleed into a creepy November. How's that? So, Brad, is there anything else you want to say about the Munsters or the podcast or anything else?

Brad Shreve:
First, I just want to say that next week's come commemorative episode is something I suggested because we want to honor Tony about something.

Tony Maietta:
Aren't you sweet?

Brad Shreve:
Beyond that, if you're new to the podcast, welcome. We love having you and appreciate you checking us out. And hopefully you love the show enough that you're going to click the follow button so that you'll know when future episodes come out and you won't miss us. And those of you that have been listening for a while, as always, we love and adore you and thank you for listening. And please rate and review the show so others will know how much you enjoy it as well.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. And I believe we have a whole new batch of reviews that we're going to read in our special episode next week, if I'm not mistaken. So that'll be very cool. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.

Tony Maietta:
Thank you. Well, Brad, I guess then in that case, there is finally only one thing left to say. But if even then, I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve:
No, let's say. You rang? Oh, wrong show.

Tony Maietta:
Goodbye, everybody.