Tony Maietta:
Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Brad Shreve with just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions, too.

Brad Shreve:
And of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood, Brad. Before we start recording and we get into our episode of today, I have a very serious question to ask you. All right.

Brad Shreve:
Okay, sure.

Tony Maietta:
Are you a monster or are you an atom? But wait, no, I mean, come on. Who am I kidding? This is the Going Hollywood podcast. Please, are you a Lily or are you a Morticia?

Brad Shreve:
Oh, boy, that's tough. It'd be easier if you asked me if I was a Ginger or a Marianne.

Tony Maietta:
Maybe some other week between Lily and.

Brad Shreve:
Morticia, I'll have to go with a Morticia. Interesting. Do you want to know why, or should we hear what?

Tony Maietta:
No, I want to hear why you are. No, I want to hear why.

Brad Shreve:
Because Lily is more of the traditional sitcom housewife who does a little more nagging than I like, even though I like her and she's a loving wife. Morticia is a little more classy.

Tony Maietta:
Hmm. Okay, okay, that's fair. That's fair.

Brad Shreve:
What about you? Who are you, Lily or Morticia?

Tony Maietta:
I am a Marilyn. There, I said it. I said it. I'm the other. I'm the hideous freak who drives men away with my hideous looks. Oh, my.

Brad Shreve:
That's funny.

Tony Maietta:
Well, everybody, if you haven't figured it out, it's. It's another one of our Halloween ish, October ish episodes. We're talking about the Munsters and the Addams Family. It's not really the Munsters versus the Addams Family, because I think you and I like the same one a little bit more than the other one, so it's not going to really be a battle. I don't know yet. We'll have to figure that out. We really haven't talked about it, folks.

Brad Shreve:
It is a big battle between a lot of people. It's, it's, I would say, equal to the, you know, I was jokingly talking about the Marianne Ginger thing, but I think a lot of people, it's equal to that.

Tony Maietta:
It's huge. To people. People are passionate. Yeah. Like with It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. People are passionate Munsters or they're passionate atoms. I guess that's what I was kind of asking. No, I wasn't.

Tony Maietta:
I want to know if you were Lilly or Morticia is basically it. It went. When pressed, I think I probably am a Morticia, although I still identify with Marilyn Moore, but Beverly Owen, not Pat Priest. I'm sorry. So, yes, we're talking about the Munsters and the Addams Family, which both, oddly enough, aired at the same time. It's a very, very strange, strange situation, these two shows. But I'm excited to talk about it because it's a little change of pace for us as we talk about our air quotes, scary movies this month to talk about these TV shows, which I don't know about you, but were so much a part of my childhood, it's not even funny. I mean, I remember these shows probably the Munsters more than Adams, but I remember them on all the time.

Tony Maietta:
Do you?

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. Day after day after day. And when we get into our likes and dislikes of the series, I think the fact that I watched it every day was a big impact on which one I preferred.

Tony Maietta:
Really? That's interesting.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Okay. 1964, a very strange year. Life magazine called it the year of the monster. And these are some of the things that happened in 1964. It was not only, I want to point this out, it was not only the fact that you had these two series which were incredibly similar, premiering within a week of each other and created independently. There was another TV show which started the exact same month, a day before the Addams Family, called Bewitched. This is so strange. This truly was the.

Tony Maietta:
I don't even know if it's the year of the monsters. It's more of the year of the supernatural.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Because Bewitched premiered. When we talked about Bewitched last season, we had a fabulous two part episode on Bewitched, one of my favorites. If you haven't listened to it, what's wrong with you? Listen to it. Bewitch premiered on September 17, 1964. The Addams Family premiered on September 18, 1964. And the Munsters was September 24, 1964. So 1964. TV audiences were getting a hell of a lot of supernatural content, fantastical content in September of 64.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting because I think a lot of people assumed, you know, either the Munsters came out a year earlier, or the Addams Family came out the year earlier, and it was kind of in a. A Bewitched Genie kind of thing. Like, one network said, oh, we need to copy the success of this other show because, you know, time has passed and people don't remember when they actually came out. And I think that's probably the assumption on most people's part. Now, I knew they came out the same year. I didn't know it was as close as it is. And I thought, okay, there was a leak somewhere.

Brad Shreve:
And I can find nothing. As you said, they were independent, each other. I can find nothing that says one leaked to the other network. It just happened.

Tony Maietta:
It's the oddest thing. It's the oddest thing. Yeah, they developed independently. Neither one knew about the other one until they found out. And I believe the Addams Family found out. The creators of the Addams Family found out first, and they're like, oh, we got to beat the Munsters to the punch. That's why the Addams Family. They ramped up production, and that's why the Addams Family premiered about a week before the Munsters.

Tony Maietta:
However, in the grand scheme of things, the Munsters actually was the more successful show. It had higher ratings than the Addams Family the first year. But we'll get into that. We'll get into that.

Brad Shreve:
I have a theory why that happened.

Tony Maietta:
Why do you think that happened?

Brad Shreve:
I mean, just because you just told me this information.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
The Addams Family had to rush, so they had a matte painting for their house, whereas the Munsters took the time to actually have a real house.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you know what, though? Do you know that was only a partial matte painting? Did you know that?

Brad Shreve:
No.

Tony Maietta:
It was a real house. The Addams Family house was a real house located at 21 Chester Place in Los Angeles. Now, for any or my fellow Los Angelenos out there, you can't go looking for it now. It was torn down. It's in the USC area. And the part that was real is the portico and the first two stories. And then they built a mat. They created a matte painting for the upper.

Tony Maietta:
You know, the little turrets and all this stuff that. That goes up. But that was a. That was a. So it Was a partial matte painting, partial real house. And, yes, you're right, 1313 Mockingburn laid was an actual set house that was on the Universal lot. And it's funny, they said that when very often when they were filming the Munsters, they would tour, would come by and tourists would actually stop filming and approach the characters. You know what I mean? If they were filming a scene, suddenly there'd be a tourist or.

Tony Maietta:
Can I have an autograph? Herman. Hi, Lily. I mean, they would do this. It's kind of funny. So there was no. Whenever they were outside filming, Obviously not when they were inside. What do you think it was about 64? Do you think it was the Kennedy assassination and, like, need for escapism and fantasy.

Brad Shreve:
I think it wasn't just the Kennedy assassination. It was. It was a very violent decade. I can't remember when all the assassinations took place, but it was a very violent decade. You had the Vietnam War going on. No, none of that, really.

Tony Maietta:
That's. That's all later.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. No, no, none of that. Boiled over the top.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
To later decades. But it was happening then. It was still brewing. There was still that tension. You still had the beatniks in the early 60s. And I just think there was a lot I. You know, the early 60s were more like the 50s. But once you got a little past that, things started stewing.

Brad Shreve:
And they stewed and they stewed and they stewed, and then they bowled over. I think these were part of that early stewing. People need an escape.

Tony Maietta:
I think that you. I think that. Yes, I think you're right. I think it was a reaction to the conservativism that was part of the 50s and bled into the early 60s. I think you're absolutely right about that. Because what are these shows, in essence? These shows, in essence, are spoofs of standard American sitcoms. If the beginning of the Addams Family, not the beginning of the Munsters, the very first beginning that starts with Lily, not with Herman, breaks through the door. Not that beginning.

Tony Maietta:
That was season two, Season one. It begins with Lily at the bottom of the stairs. And all the people come. You know, Eddie comes, she gives him his lunch. Marilyn comes, she kisses her. Herman comes, she kisses Herman. That is basically the same beginning as the Donna Reed Show. Watch the Donna Reed show sometime.

Tony Maietta:
And Donna comes out in her pearls and answers the phone. And then everybody comes and she greets everybody as they go off on. And that's how the monsters started. So it was. It really was an outright spoof of these classic American sitcoms that we think of. Of American Life air quotes. Except they happen to be monsters or they happen to be very strange individuals like the Addams Family. It's very funny.

Tony Maietta:
So I think it was a reaction.

Brad Shreve:
To that conformity, I will say, between the two, that the Munsters was more of a spoof of the traditional family sitcom than the Addams Family. And I'm not saying that's better or worse, because it really was. It really was. I mean, the Adams family was just different. And the Munsters was Donna Reed and makeup. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
The Addams Family also had Charles Addams cartoons as a basis. Whereas the Munsters was somewhat original. It was. But. But I think what, if you're gonna look at anything as kind of an influence on this, it was My Favorite Martian because my Favorite Martian premiered the year before in 63 and was a big hit and was really the first supernatural, fantastical TV sitcom. And because it was such a big hit, that's when the idea came to ABC and CBS that we are going to do the same thing. And then they developed along their own tracks. So.

Tony Maietta:
But yeah, like I said, you know, though the shows. The similarities between these shows are so strange and the differences are crazy. So they were never. Neither show ever got nominated for an Emmy. Nobody ever got nominated. Not even makeup, which you think at least they get makeup. Never no Emmy nominations for either one. The Munsters was higher rated than the Addams Family.

Tony Maietta:
The very first season, the Munsters was frequently in the top 10. It ended the year number 18. And the Addams family ended the year 23. So still very respectable. And then the second year, both series were in the toilet. They were out of the top 30. Yeah. And we'll talk about the reasons for that.

Brad Shreve:
Dropped like rocks.

Tony Maietta:
But I want to ask you a question. So we're. We know. Very, very famous address. 1313 Mockingbird Lane. Home of the Munsters. Do you know what the Addams Family address was?

Brad Shreve:
No. You know, it never even dawned on me what might it be. So I'm curious.

Tony Maietta:
This took a little digging for me. I mean, I didn't sit down and watch every episode. Maybe they say it in an episode. And all the episodes I watched, I didn't see it, but so I did a little digging. They lived on Cemetery Lane. Cemetery Lane. And their address was 0001 Cemetery, which is still a great address. That's a great address.

Brad Shreve:
You may be able to answer this for me because I never realized until watching these episodes how clear it was that the Munsters are in a suburb of Los Angeles. That Mocking. Mockingbird Heights is in the Los Angeles area.

Tony Maietta:
Hmm.

Brad Shreve:
Do we ever know where the Adams are?

Tony Maietta:
No, no, we never know. We never know. The town is never. Yeah, it's a. It's a fictional town. It's a fictional town. How did you get the Los Angeles suburbs? Because they were filming in the Valley.

Brad Shreve:
There are things set in the series that the episodes that we watched where. Where they're referencing made it clear as day that they are in this area. I don't know if they said they were going to a particular beach. Now, there are later episodes where they go to Antelope Valley, which is up near me here, because they want. Herman wanted to go to. I think the family wanted to go to the beach, and Herman wanted to go to Antelope Valley, and they come up here and deal with Native Americans and that sort of thing.

Tony Maietta:
Right, right.

Brad Shreve:
I remember that. Yeah, that's in the LA area, but that doesn't mean that's where the show is. But yeah, there are comments made either to Santa Monica. I think they refer to a couple of the other suburbs, and I'm like, oh, maybe it was the TV station that said it.

Tony Maietta:
I thought you were just basing that hypothesis on the fact that the Santa Monica Mountains are frequently in the background. Because, you know, you can't go on that assumption.

Brad Shreve:
No, no, this. This was actually said. Right. Unlike the Brady Bunch, which everybody assumed was in la, it was never said the Munsters. It did finally come out, even though I don't think anybody ever really knew where it was.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah, and you and I talked about it. I mean, even. Even on Bewitched, when they went to Salem, they were on the set, and suddenly the Santa Monica Mountains are in the background. I was like, okay, that. What are those mountains in Salem? Yeah, yeah. Not the Berkshire. Not the Berkshires. So ABC had Bewitched and the Addams Family.

Tony Maietta:
CBS had the Munsters. So they were also on, you know, dueling networks. And as I said, ABC panicked when they found out about it, and they sped up production to get the atoms on the air first, and it beat the monsters by one week. So how do you want to do this, Brad? Do you want to. Do you want to, like, talk about the Munsters first? The Addams Family first? How do we want to handle this particular structure, this episode?

Brad Shreve:
Well, I think the easiest way is let's do the one that was, you know, aired way before the other one.

Tony Maietta:
Let's. Let's do that.

Brad Shreve:
Since the Addams Family was first. Let's go with the Addams Family. I do want to say one thing, though. You talked about these. This was the first. My favorite Martian in 63 was the first Fantastical.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Was I wrong?

Brad Shreve:
It's kind of not supernatural. But the very first that I would think of fantastical is Mr. Ed in 1961.

Tony Maietta:
That's true. Talking horse. There's some fantasy there. I remember last time a palomino came up to me. I'll give you that one, Brad. I'll give you that one. Let's do that. And we are, as, you know, as our usual format when we talk about TV shows, we have four episodes because we're doing two different shows, though we each picked one from each show.

Tony Maietta:
So I picked one from Adams and from. From Munsters, and Brad did the same. So we'll do. We'll do it that way. And then when we get to the episodes, we'll figure out who goes first. I think it's going to be you, Brad, because I know it's going to be me because my episode's up first with the Addams Family. All right, so we also kind of split the workload this time. And, Brad, I actually.

Tony Maietta:
Thank you, Brad. I said, brad, do the Adams Family. I'm so bossy. I don't believe how bossy I am sometimes. How do you put up with that?

Brad Shreve:
You know, why? Because most of the times, the things that you are demanding of, I don't care. And you know me, if I do care, I speak up. So just.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, you don't let me. You don't let. You never let me just roll over you. But I'm like, okay, Brad, you talk about this. You thought, I'm gonna talk to this. Bye.

Brad Shreve:
You're more nitpicky. You're much more nitpicky. So I just ride with it. I'm like, whatever.

Tony Maietta:
Brad very, very graciously said he would do the Addams Family. So Brad is up first talking about the Addams Family. I obviously, because I'm me and I can't keep my mouth shut, I will, of course, have little interjections about the Adams family. That's. That's the way we're going to do it. So, Brad, you want to kick us off on the Addams family, which aired September 18, 1964 to April 18, 8th, 1966. I wasn't born yet. I was almost born, but I wasn't born yet.

Brad Shreve:
And there is. There's a reason why I wanted to do the Addams Family. But I'm going to first start with what it was about which most of us know is a dark comedy twist. It's on the perfect American household. Like other sitcoms, but not nearly to the degree that the Munsters were just from the pure nature of the show. It was based on the Charles Adams New York cartoon, New Yorker cartoons that followed this fam. Many of them followed this family, though they never had names. And these were single panel cartoons that started in the 1930s.

Brad Shreve:
He did 1300 of them. He never gave him a name at all. He is the one. He didn't have a whole lot to do with the show, except when they said, we need names for these characters. He gave them the name. So. And I guess it was probably the network's decision to call them the M's family because. Because he was famous for these cartoons.

Brad Shreve:
So I am a huge, huge fan of the Charles Adams cartoons, which is why I wanted to do this show. So the show is about gourmet. Gourmet. I was gonna say gourmet. About Gomez, Morticia, their children, and their other kind of kooky, odd relatives and their creepy butler, Lurch. And they aren't monsters in the real sense that the monsters were, though, cousin, it is defin in that realm as well. Maybe, Lurch. They're monstrous as much as they are odd.

Brad Shreve:
Odd, creepy, weird. Death was charming and normal to them. Or normal was. And being normal was just dull. And like the monsters, they thought they were normal. Yeah. Now it seems like, unlike the monsters, they. They thought the Munsters were trying to fit in, where the ammo family just thought, what is with these other squares in the world? It was a whole different attitude for.

Tony Maietta:
Them, but they were. Both families were oblivious to the fact that they looked differently than everybody else. That's what I think is so funny.

Brad Shreve:
Looked and acted differently.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, but the Adams could actually blend if they tried. I mean, yes, Morticia's dress. She would have had to do something with the dress, but there was nothing. There was no kind of. They weren't monsters. As you just said, they look like normal people. I mean, yes, they're a little extreme, but they could blend easier. They could pass.

Tony Maietta:
I guess the word.

Brad Shreve:
You didn't have people running just from the side of them as much as you did in the monsters. Correct, Correct. Like I said, I think when it came to monster type, really cousin it and thing would be the most terrifying Cousin it. I love cousin Lurch. You'd be like, that guy is really ugly. But I don't know if you'd ever. I don't think you'd Run away. Maybe I'm wrong.

Tony Maietta:
I would. I would. I'll tell you.

Brad Shreve:
Right. I think he's sexy. That voice and the way his eyes roll up into his head. So. And you give the dates and those. Those are the main. The only other thing I can do is share my thoughts, and I think we should talk about the series. The episodes first and the first episode that we decide to talk about.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, let's. Yeah. I have a couple things I want to interject because I think there should be some.

Brad Shreve:
Okay.

Tony Maietta:
A little. A little background about it. So the series was created by David Levy and Donald Saltzman, and it was shot in black and white. Now, when we get to the Munsters, there's some debate about that, but it was shot in black and white, and there was a total of 64 episodes. And I think probably the most famous thing. What do you think the most famous thing about the Addams Family is, Brad? The series. Snap, snap, snap, snap. Exactly, exactly.

Tony Maietta:
It's. It's opening theme song. I think everybody knows, which is a really great opening. I love the opening of the Addams Family. I also love the opening of the.

Brad Shreve:
Monster, and I can't snap, otherwise I would have done it. But I had to say snaps.

Tony Maietta:
We'll loop them in. And it was composed and sung by Vic Mizzy. Oh, so there you go. That's it. So we want to talk about the cast a little bit, though, don't we? Don't we want to talk about who some of these people are who played these parts?

Brad Shreve:
Of course we do. Let's start with Gomez himself, who was played by John Astin, who I would say is probably the most famous. Jackie Coogan would have been more famous in his day, but John Astin is probably the most famous known today. He actually returned to the role in.

Tony Maietta:
The TV film also because of his son.

Brad Shreve:
Because of what?

Tony Maietta:
Because of his son. Because of Sean Astin. I would assume that he's famous to me, because of John Astin.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I forgot. Oh, there's a whole story I forgot about Sean Astin.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, the whole story. You know, he's still alive. John Astin is still. I believe every time I've said this. Now we lose somebody.

Brad Shreve:
Be careful.

Tony Maietta:
We just lost Dame Patricia Rutledge, God bless her, recently too. So I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna say still alive. I'm just gonna let it go, because I don't. Yeah. What the hell's up with that? So forget that John Astin. Yeah, he was probably the most. He probably is the Most well known because he was a famous character actor.

Tony Maietta:
He was in Freaky Friday, the original Freaky Friday with Barbara Harris. He was in that Touch of Maine, west side Story. So here's the thing, though, and we have to have this because we haven't had one in a while. And I don't feel right unless I get this out. We got a Lucy moment right here because.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, dear.

Tony Maietta:
Because John Astin was married to none other than Patty Duke. Okay, now here's your Lucy moment. So Patty Duke was dating Desi Arnaz Jr. And John Astin and another man named Michael Tell at the same time. And guess who got pregnant and couldn't figure out who the father was of her baby.

Brad Shreve:
I did know this story. So for a time, the baby was.

Tony Maietta:
Desi Arnaz Jr. For a time, she didn't say it. Some tabloid said it. It was never. She never. She never came out. Right. And said.

Tony Maietta:
She said maybe she wasn't sure who the father was because she was dating. It's like Mamma Mia, you know, Patty Duke style. So she wasn't really sure. And there was reported for a time that it was indeed Desi Arnaz Jr's. So Sean Astin. They weren't sure if Sean Astin was Lucille Ball's grandson. And I think she actually went and saw. Dressed in black and put a veil on and went and saw the baby at one point.

Tony Maietta:
But then Patti confirmed that Sean was. Was really the son of Michael Tell. But she ended up marrying John Astin, and John Astin adopted Sean. That's why his name is Sean Aston, which, you know. There you go. There's your Lucy moment, folks. You're welcome. You're welcome.

Tony Maietta:
So we also had Carolyn Jones playing Morticia. Did you know any of Carolyn Jones's work before this, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
No, I knew nothing of Carolyn Jones. I know the show she's been in from our research, but I did know nothing of her.

Tony Maietta:
Beautiful, beautiful woman. Oscar nominee. She was nominated for an Oscar in 57 for best supporting Actress. And she was originally supposed to play the prostitute in From Here to Eternity, but she got sick and the part went to Donna Reed, who won an Oscar. So God bless Carolyn. Beautiful woman. Beautiful, beautiful woman. And you can.

Tony Maietta:
I think you can see it in when she plays Morticia. Even as Morticia, she's a stunningly beautiful woman.

Brad Shreve:
And one of the things I find interesting about both John Astin and Carolyn Jones is especially John Astin. He had a very prominent role. And we won't get into Batman right now, but Both of them went on to be on Batman. John more well known as the Riddler.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. And you know, for a while Carolyn Jones was married to Aaron Spelling. So this was. Yeah, Carolyn Jones was a big. Was. She was, she was never a big star, obviously. Morticia was probably her biggest. She got a Golden Globe nomination for playing Morticia.

Tony Maietta:
It was obviously her biggest career success. She did soaps later and she did some TV shows and sadly she died of cancer in 83. But. So Uncle Fester, you mentioned him briefly, who played Uncle Fester, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Uncle Fester was played by Jackie Coogan, who children, child actors for decades owe him a great amount of gratitude.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, yeah, you mentioned it. Michael said, be sure you mentioned the Coogan Law. I was like, yes, Michael, I will mention the Coogan Law my mom used.

Brad Shreve:
To talk about all the time. I don't know why it was a big deal for her. I think because she was sad that he was so taken advantage of.

Tony Maietta:
But, well, tell, tell our people what the Coogan, what the Coogan Law is.

Brad Shreve:
Jackie Coogan in his day was a huge, huge child star. And by the time he got a little bit older, his parents blew every bit of his money. He was left with nothing. And as a result of that, and you'll probably know more of the percentages that I know with the Coogan Law, child actors income is now protected. So that can no longer happen.

Tony Maietta:
Right. It's put into a trust. It's put into a trust, yeah. Basically, Jackie Coogan was, I don't want to say he was discovered by Charlie Chaplin, but he was in vaudeville from a baby and Chaplin saw him at eight, when he was five years old and put him in a couple of his films. But the most famous one is the Kid. Have you ever seen the kid or have you ever seen clips of the kid or anything like that, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
I have seen clips of the Kid and as always, it was ages ago.

Tony Maietta:
It was one of Chaplin's most famous films, most beautiful films. It's a wonderful, wonderful film. And Jackie Coogan is astounding. He's like a mini Mary Tyler Moore. Every time I see him, he's got a little bit of a page boy haircut. His. He's so good, he's so present. You think this child is 5 years old and he's brilliant.

Tony Maietta:
His emotions, he's so real. Everything is just. Yeah, I mean, this is 100 year old film and it's a beautiful, beautiful performance. And he became a huge child star. Big, big child star. But then when he Started to get older, and he wasn't. You know, he. As what happened to many child stars, wasn't doing as well.

Tony Maietta:
He wanted to get all that money he made in the 20s, and it was gone. Parents spent it. $4 million gone, gone. So he actually took them to court, and he was able to get $126,000 from approximately 4 million he had made.

Brad Shreve:
So that's when that's probably all that was left.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that was all it was left. So public outcry led to the Coogan act, which is also called the child actors bill. And it requires forevermore any child actor. Trusts have to be set up for their earnings so your parents can screw you over and take all the money that you made when you were a hardworking kid actor. That's Jackie Coogan. We also have who. Who plays Lurch.

Brad Shreve:
My favorite character, Ted Cassidy. Ted Cassidy, yes. He is the one that made the Addams Family for me. And one of the reasons why I chose the episode I did, because he is the most monster. Like, that's what endeared me to him. I also think his character was so well played by him. But because of the nature of the character, I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for making Lurch such a great character.

Tony Maietta:
I think you're probably right. I think you're probably right. I agree with that. And contrary to what many people think, he did not play Jaws in the James Bond films.

Brad Shreve:
I know. I. I used to think that as well.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, a lot of people did. A lot of people did. He did not. He did not play it. And then we have Lisa Loring as Wednesday and Ken Weatherwax as Pugsley making up the Addams Family. There they are.

Brad Shreve:
And I gotta say something about Pugsley, because Lisa Loring had some pretty prominent scenes, and she was in the opening credits. Not the whole family was in the opening credits snapping their fingers. But when they showed clips from the series, there is not a single one that showed Pugsley. That poor kid was underdeveloped. He went on to. I forget what. He didn't stay in acting, and he doesn't. I'm not gonna say he remembers the show poorly.

Brad Shreve:
He just. He didn't like being an actor. He was bored. He was bored sitting around on set all day, which for a kid, I understand. Especially when you consider he's the kid that didn't do much.

Tony Maietta:
Wednesday got a spin off. Wednesday has her own show on Netflix. Now. Where's Pugsley's show?

Brad Shreve:
That's because Wednesday Was well developed as well. You know, she kind of went off and on from being a typical girl to the, you know, the dark goth Wednesday that we all know and love.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, yes.

Brad Shreve:
But Pugsley, they never really seem to know what to do with the kid.

Tony Maietta:
They didn't. They didn't. We also forgot. And it's easy to forget her because she talk about unacknowledged grandmama. Grandmama, Grandmama, played by Blossom Rock.

Brad Shreve:
Blossom Rock. Yes.

Tony Maietta:
I love that name. I know I've seen her before, and I was doing deep dives and to try to figure out where I've seen her before and nothing rang a bell. All of her credits rang a bell. So I don't know, maybe I'll figure it out sometime. But she looks so familiar. But she really does anything. She has a very few lines, you know, she's really thankless. Thankless.

Brad Shreve:
I am gonna, I think, trump the historian here.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, you got. You got something. Well, I know what she did.

Brad Shreve:
I think I know why you know her.

Tony Maietta:
Why do I know her?

Brad Shreve:
She is Jeanette McDonald's sister.

Tony Maietta:
I knew that, but that's not why.

Brad Shreve:
I thought maybe that she looks like Jeanette. I couldn't.

Tony Maietta:
I wouldn't.

Brad Shreve:
I've never seen her without her makeup.

Tony Maietta:
So listen, I know I'm a. I know I'm a TV air quotes, TV film historian. But I don't go, hmm, that looks like Jeanette McDonald's sister. Maybe it's Jeanette McDonald's sister. Oh, you know what? That looks like Irene Dunn's brother. Maybe that's Irene Dunn's brother. No, I wouldn't. I'm not that much.

Tony Maietta:
There were some really interesting guest stars who were played members of the Addams Family's family. Though I think one of the most interesting ones is Morticia's mother, Esther Frump. Do you know who played Esther Frump? Morticious.

Brad Shreve:
No, no, I forgot all about Esther Frump. See, I'm supposed to know this stuff because I did the Adams family. And I don't remember that.

Tony Maietta:
I told you. I didn't interject because I can't keep my mouth shut. She was played by none other than Margaret Hamilton, the Wicked Witch of the West.

Brad Shreve:
How could I forget that?

Tony Maietta:
And Morticia had an older sister, Ophelia Frump.

Brad Shreve:
Now, Ophelia, I do remember. I don't remember who played her.

Tony Maietta:
You don't remember who played her?

Brad Shreve:
I. You know what? I did know. I just the other day I was thinking about it, but I cannot for the life of me right now. Being on. On a microphone, be able to tell.

Tony Maietta:
You it was played by Carolyn Jones.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I thought for sure it was somebody different. I hate it when TV shows do that. That's probably why I don't remember.

Tony Maietta:
She pulled a Serena. That's why I thought you would know, because I know you hate that because you were bitching about Serena and you're bitching about Jeannie, too. And. Yeah, that she. They pulled a Serena and Carolyn Jones played her own.

Brad Shreve:
I was thinking somebody for sure somebody else did it. I thought the other day I read something.

Tony Maietta:
So that's our cast. And.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, and there was another double.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Because I heard this is up for debate. But my understanding is thing was Ted.

Tony Maietta:
Cassidy's hand, you know, that's. He denied that. I read that, too. And I've also read that he denied that. But you know what could be, could be. Who knows why people say he always.

Brad Shreve:
Had his suit on. So I have no idea if he had hairy arms.

Tony Maietta:
That's true. He always did. He was great. He was great. So a couple of the little things, a little tidbits about the Addams family, which I think are kind of interesting. I think everybody knows some of the. More like Morticia's flesh eating plant. The.

Tony Maietta:
The African strangler was called Cleopatra.

Brad Shreve:
Cleopatra.

Tony Maietta:
I think most people know that Uncle Fester could illuminate light bulbs by putting them in his mouth. Do you remember what his wristwatch was? What? He had a watch that he told time with. It was an hour glass. Oh.

Brad Shreve:
Thinking of all the other little ongoing jokes they had, but no, I don't remember that one.

Tony Maietta:
What do you know? What about their pet lion's name? Do you remember what their pet lion's name was?

Brad Shreve:
It was just Kitty, wasn't it?

Tony Maietta:
Kitty. Kit Kat. Kit Kat.

Brad Shreve:
Okay.

Tony Maietta:
And he was afraid of humans.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, yeah. One of the episode you chose, we see him running away. That was very cute. You know, and we also had, you know, Morticia would smoke.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
She was always cutting, cutting the buds off of roses. Charming, charming people. And of course, we have Gomez kissing up her arm and his fencing and what were some other running jokes. Of course we have. You rang?

Tony Maietta:
Well, yes, you rang. But you know, it's also the French caramel. You know, Gomez was one horny Addams. And Carolyn Jones said that the sensuality between the two, if you think about it, they were a very sensual, sexy couple. This is TV in the 60s, people. 1964. I really think that Darren and Samantha were the first married couple to sleep in the same bed. So this is what we're dealing with here.

Tony Maietta:
It was the very first time. So there was a great sensuality between Gomez and Morticia. And I think that's what people respond to, because the minute he heard a French phrase or a French word, he got. He was a horn dog, and he was all over kissing her arm. And she would just. She would take it, she'd roll her eyes. Sometimes she'd get into it, sometimes she wouldn't. I love when they would fence together.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, it's just such clever, sophisticated things. I think that's the thing about the Addams Family. I think you said it earlier. There's a sophistication to the Addams family that is not part of the Munsters. And I think that's what's appealing because of the Charles Addams cartoons, don't you think?

Brad Shreve:
Well, the Charles Adams cartoons were not. Well, I mean, they were sophisticated in the sense that they were from the New Yorker magazine, but they weren't sophisticated like the sense. The TV show. The TV show really changed the Addams Family with the Charles Addams comics cartoons to their. Not to their betterment, in my opinion.

Tony Maietta:
Well, they made them much more. They made them much less sinister. I mean, they're not dumping boiling oil on people underneath their. You know.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And I love that. That's actually one of my favorite Charles Adams comics is when the family is up on top of the roof and they're dumping all hot oil on the trick or treaters. And I was so excited in the movie when they did that, because that is the Adams that I know. The Adams in the TV series is. They're. They're more. They're.

Brad Shreve:
They're eccentric and weird. Yeah, well, they're not as ghoulish and macabre.

Tony Maietta:
They're creepy and they're kooky.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Mysterious and spooky.

Brad Shreve:
You know, they're more screwball altogether.

Tony Maietta:
Hooky. Yes, that's exactly it. That's exactly. They had to dumb it down a bit for TV, obviously. This is TV in the. This is TV. This ain't HBO. This is ABC in the 60s, so.

Tony Maietta:
Well, do we want to. Since we're talking about the Addams Family, do we want to talk about the Addams Family episodes that we picked?

Brad Shreve:
Well, I think it's probably a good idea. Otherwise, we watch those for no reason.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly.

Brad Shreve:
Well, other than our own enjoyment.

Tony Maietta:
So I'll get. I'll lead off with. With talking. This is my first one's, the first one up, but I'll go ahead and give The. If it's all right with you, I'll give the titles and the stats and we'll get into that.

Brad Shreve:
Sure, sure.

Tony Maietta:
So our very first episode is entitled How. How Ironic Is this Halloween with the Addams Family. Wonder why Tony chose that. It's from season one. It's episode seven. It aired on October 30, 1964. It was directed by Sidney Lanfield, written by Keith Fowler, Phil Leslie and David Levy, and it had a special guest star who was one of their special guest stars. Brad, do you remember?

Brad Shreve:
I do remember. And considering this was only the seventh episode of the season, I'm really surprised they got this big star on the first season of this kooky series. And that would be Don Rickles.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Still nursing his wounds for not being cast. And it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world. Still pissed off at Stanley Kramer. But, yeah, you know, this. Well, this. It's not unusual because. Do you know who actually directed the pilot episode of the Addams Family? I meant to mention that.

Brad Shreve:
No.

Tony Maietta:
Arthur Hiller. A director named Arthur Hiller. Arthur Hiller was a very well known film director. He directed Love Story, for God's sake. He directed the Hospital, the In Laws, and he directed the pilot episode. So the Addams Family. Again, the sophisticated level of the Addams Family, I think is obvious here. So Halloween with the Addams Family.

Tony Maietta:
This is one of two Halloween episodes. This was the first one, obviously, and then the second one was the last one, because then the Adams Family was canceled. And basically the story is that on Halloween night, two robbers, except the Addams Family's unknowing invitation to celebrate in their home because they're hiding out from the law. The Addams Family are having a Halloween party, and they think these two individuals, Don Rickles and his pal, are guests. But I don't remember them ever saying they invited anybody. So I'm wondering, how do they think these people are showing up just to come to their party? Because they have this whole thing. They have. She has cocktails, she has the spider cookies.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, Lurch is in there making the drinks, making the sandwiches. And, like, who did they invite? Cousin. It's not even there yet. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's a cute episode. It's a cute episode. And that's basically it.

Tony Maietta:
It's basically these normal air quotes. People, robbers, bank robbers. Finding out that it's actually a better choice to go with the police than it is to stay in the Addams Family house.

Brad Shreve:
And that's the clever part. They were with this family that was freaking them out. But they had to choose, do we deal with these weirdos or to deal with the cops? And that premise is what kept them there, which I thought was very clever.

Tony Maietta:
It is. And they also discovered that Gomez has a drawer full of cash, which I was like, oh, that's great. So that's what also keeps them there. They're hiding out from the police, and every time they think they're going to leave, they hear the siren, so they decide to stay. And then they find out Gomez has a. Has a drawer full of cash, which begs the question, and I want to know if you knew this. We know. We know that Gomez is obsessed with the stock market because that's one of his traits.

Tony Maietta:
He's always reading the ticker tape from his. From the stock market. What the hell does Gomez do for a living? We know what Herman does. What does Gomez do? He has all that money.

Brad Shreve:
Well, well, I think that's the difference. Another difference between the two that, you know, we said that the. The Munsters is more of a traditional sitcom. The. The Munsters are a middle class, middle income family. The Adams are so rich, it's beyond belief. And I don't know if we ever knew. You may know, but what.

Brad Shreve:
How Gomez got his money, other than he was a big time investor?

Tony Maietta:
No, that's what I'm asking you. I don't know how he got his money. I think he just was. They were just wealthy. We're just. It just.

Brad Shreve:
It just was.

Tony Maietta:
Suspend our disbelief and go, oh, they're a wealthy family. I mean, their house is a museum. I mean, when people come to see him, they really are a scream. So it's that just. We just have to go with that. That's the way it is.

Brad Shreve:
He, on the one hand, was obsessed with money, but it was more like a game because it didn't mean much to him. You know, like that leaving the money stuffed in a desk drawer. You know, it's so funny.

Tony Maietta:
It's so great. And among them, among the games they play with their guests is a bobbing game, but not bobbing for apples. And they're not. They're not actually doing the bobbing and the biting. They are trying to not get bobbed and bitten by what, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Bobbing for crabs.

Tony Maietta:
That has interesting connotations when you say it like that.

Brad Shreve:
And I loved Don Rickles, said they're still alive. And they were like, well, that's what makes it a challenge.

Tony Maietta:
And Uncle Fester, of course, loves the game. The crab goes. Right. But of course, they both end up with the crabs on their noses, and they're just. They're freaking out during the entire. The entire time. And I love the fact that we forgot that. That Pugsley and Wednesday go trick or treating with Grandma.

Tony Maietta:
And, of course, it's Halloween. So what. Do you remember what their costumes were when they went out? Trick or treating?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And this is where it was more Munsters. Like Pugsley. You know, I didn't hear what they were called. I actually debated whether to rewind it. Pugsley looked like a. Like, almost a Stanley Laurel. He just looked like a normal guy, really, in a bowler, like a businessman.

Tony Maietta:
He was. I was a staunch.

Brad Shreve:
And Wednesday look kind of like a librarian with kooky glasses. But they talked about how terrifying they were, and they needed to tell people that they were just children. And this is more of a Munsters kind of gag. But it was fun. It was very funny.

Tony Maietta:
That is funny. Please warn people.

Brad Shreve:
And then they're with Grandmama, who, you know, is terrifying witch.

Tony Maietta:
So, yeah, these Halloween episodes on these shows are always interesting because they're really one of the few times that the characters can interact with air quotes, normal people without people screaming or running because they think they're at a costume party. Yes. Munsters also have a masquerade, which was one of the episodes I was going to do, but I didn't. Where they go to. So they can go to these costume parties because people think they're in costume. They don't realize. No, this is the way they look. It's a very cute episode.

Tony Maietta:
I liked it. I liked it just for the Halloween theme, you know, the thing about these episodes is they're not long. They're short episodes. I mean, they're not as short as TV episodes are now, but there's not a lot of waste in it. It's a cute episode. You know, the usual things happen. They see the lion. Lurch freaks them out.

Tony Maietta:
You know, they're gonna leave. They see the money. It's just a fun episode. I like it. In a Halloween episode. What did you think?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, but to go off of what you said. Lurch didn't freak them out at first. They were just really impressed with his mask.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. His costume, of course.

Brad Shreve:
I love that one. I don't think it was Don Rickles. It was the other criminal who put his face. He said, where did you get that mask? And Lurch said, it's mine or something. I think he said, it's mine.

Tony Maietta:
Well, don't they put their hands on.

Brad Shreve:
Put his hand up.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, they put their hands on it.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, he put his hand up on his face. He's like. My words are like, holy. That is a man.

Tony Maietta:
No, but I just love. I love the fact that these people, these. These criminals would rather be dragged into the. Into jail than spend any more time with the Addams Family. It's just, you know, the theme of the show in a nutshell. And all Gomez and Morticia want to do is have a good time and be good neighborly, be good neighbors, be neighborly, have a little party, a little soiree for the neighborhood, and this kind of stuff happens.

Brad Shreve:
And that is one thing that is fun about the Addams Family, because they're so rich. They're just always just trying to have fun.

Tony Maietta:
They are. And they're very loving. They're very loving family.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And their sense of fun, unfortunately, is. Does not jive with the rest of the world, but they're just trying to have a good time.

Tony Maietta:
Adams just want to have fun.

Brad Shreve:
So.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. So that's my episode, Halloween with the Addams Family. We should do your Addams Family episode, Brad. I'll introduce it. You want me to introduce it?

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Brad picked Lurch, the teenage idol, also from Season 1, Episode 33. It aired on May 14, 1965. It was directed by Sidney Landfield, and it was written by Phil Leslie, Carol Henning, and Ed Ring. And tell us about this episode, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
I chose this episode not just because it featured Lurch, which is partially one of the reasons. Just I remembered it being very funny, because of the absurdity of this episode. And what the episode is, is that Lurch is grunting on his harpsichord, and Gomez decides, oh, we can make him a star. Because, you know, Gomez, as soon as he gets an idea of how to make money, he immediately goes for it.

Tony Maietta:
Because he sounds like all those other folk singers, right? He sounds like all those other folk singers on the radio. Have you ever heard him? They sound just like him.

Brad Shreve:
You know, that's his singing. And so I love that when it cuts to the record studio and the. The producer says, I'm not doing hit songs with butlers or something. But then he hears Lurch singing in the background going. He's like, oh, what? What is that? Is that him? So he puts the the blonde. The 60s blonde bombshell on, and she listens to it, and I don't know what her words were, but basically something like, that's really groovy. So they immediately, like, we have a star on our hands. So they have to rush over to the house.

Brad Shreve:
And again, this is one of the things I love. Everything's creepy and kooky. But this time, they're sitting there in the living room listening to Lurch sing. And Lurch becomes a huge star.

Tony Maietta:
Goes right to his head, too. Goes right to his head.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, it does. And, you know, Lurch always has that look. And I love it when he. This is one of the reasons I love Lurch and Ted Cassidy's portrayal of him, which is very well done based on the cartoons. He's sitting there playing the piano, and his eyes are just rolled up in his head like he's the dead playing this piano as he's grunting. The whole visual, I just love.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's. You know, it's. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I like this episode a lot. I thought this was a fun episode. I had never seen it, actually, so I hadn't seen a lot of. Like I said, I have. I'm much more familiar with the Munsters, so seeing a lot of these Addams Family episodes was actually kind of.

Tony Maietta:
I remembered certain specific things. I remembered KitKat, and I remembered the Cleopatra, the Flesh eating Plant, but I didn't remember specific chunks of episodes. And this one was a lot of fun. I enjoyed this one.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Like you, I don't remember specific episodes, as a rule. I remember some. This is the only one that really, like, really stuck in my mind probably more than most. I remembered the. The one that you picked after we started writing it, after I started watching it, but even then it didn't, like, click.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, so that's. That's the Addams Family, folks. That's. That's. Those are our picks for the Addams Family. Again, only two seasons, so if you ever want to binge something this Halloween, that's a fun one.

Tony Maietta:
It's only two seasons, but I gotta tell you, Brad, I think I have to confess and I don't know, you might be on the same wavelength this. Or not. When I originally said, are you a monster or an Atoms? When I'm really. Push comes to shove, I really am a monster. I really, really am.

Brad Shreve:
Pardon my French, but. Absa fucking loops. Loose abs. Loop. I can't say. You know what I'm trying to say.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, yes, Mr. Big. Absolutely. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, yes. You know, despite the fact that the Munsters was slightly ahead in the ratings when it originally aired, the Addams Family has a longer legacy. And I think there's a lot of reasons why that is part of it, as I think because of the sophistication of it. But that just gets my goat. It just gets my goat because I don't want to speak poorly of the Addams Family in the sense that I. I think it was beautifully written. I think it was well done.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
But it just wasn't my cup of tea. And I didn't think it was as creative as the Munsters. And I will say a lot of it has to do with my love for the original comics. Charles Adams himself wasn't thrilled that they downplayed it that much. He wasn't angry. He kind of understood. And he certainly said he never complained about the money, but he didn't feel like it was what he created. And it wasn't.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
It wasn't.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's not. And I think that's one of the reasons for its legs. I think one of the reasons why, you know, when you think about it, you're right. It has gone on further than the Munsters. Everybody knows the two Addams Family films from the 90s, Addams Family and Addams Family values, because they could be darker because we were in a more sophisticated time, if you will, the 90s, as opposed to 60s, and you could actually have that kind of darker sophistication. It played better in that time, and I think that's why the Adams family went on. And also, I don't know if you know about. There was an Addams Family Broadway musical.

Brad Shreve:
No, I didn't know that.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Starring Nathan Lane and B.B. newerth. And I think it ran for. It was it. It wasn't a huge, tremendous hit, but it was a hit. It ran for a couple years and it. There's productions of it all the time.

Tony Maietta:
You know, community theater or summer stock, because people love these characters. I mean, it's a built in audience with the Addams Family. And it's a really cute. It's a cute musical. But yeah, there's all these reboots. We just talked about Wednesday on Netflix. So the culture now is much more in tune with the spirit of the Addams Family. And that Charles Addams version, the darker version than this kind of sanitized version.

Brad Shreve:
Exactly. And that is why I like the movies better. I haven't actually watched the Wednesday series and I. I am dying to watch it because I know it is more of the ghoulish. I just haven't had the time to. Because on my long list of shows I'm trying to get caught up on, it's. It's on there. Nathan Lane, I don't know If I can picture him as Gomez, but B.B.

Brad Shreve:
neuwirth as Morticia. Oh, my God. That just sounds brilliant.

Tony Maietta:
Perfect casting. Perfect casting.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Perfect.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
So. But listen, Adams Family.

Brad Shreve:
And actually, let me get one more thing.

Tony Maietta:
There's a. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
To me, there's a big, big reason why the Addams Family continued.

Tony Maietta:
What's that?

Brad Shreve:
The Addams Family was an easy transition to color. The Munsters has never looked right. Every time. It just. It looks. The Munsters has to be in dark black and white.

Tony Maietta:
Well, okay, then.

Brad Shreve:
These are old universal monsters that. I know. They ran that series with John Schuck, and I'm sad for John Schuck that he ever did the. The Herman series. I think it was in the 80s, and it looks awful. And every time they've tried to redo it, it looks awful.

Tony Maietta:
Which is a perfect lead in to the Munsters.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
But it's gonna have to wait until next week and part two of our Adams v. Munsters episodes, because as Brad and I were recording this, we thought, this is gonna be way too long for one episode. We're gonna have to split this. Which makes sense, I think. This week, Adams, next week, Munsters.

Brad Shreve:
Well, it just goes to prove that we have strong opinions about these two shows. But. And this is perfectly in keeping having next week be the Munsters. It will keep in with our scary Halloween theme.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly. So, Brad, do you have anything else you want to say about the podcast, the Addams Family or anything else?

Brad Shreve:
Well, for those that are new to this podcast, welcome. We're happy you're here. Please click the follow button so that you will be notified whenever we have a new episode come out. And you won't miss a single one. Those of you who have been listening for a while, welcome back. We are always happy to have you back, and we really appreciate it. And please rate and review so others will know that you enjoy the show. So that they'll say, hey, I think I'll check it out, too.

Tony Maietta:
That sounds good. Yes. Thanks to everybody who has been rating and reviewing. It is so very appreciated. Can't say that enough. Well, Brad, I guess there's only one thing left to say, but I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say.

Brad Shreve:
No, I told you I can't snap. So let's just say (Lurch grunts)

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we better say goodbye until next week. Oh, snap. Goodbye, everybody. And that's all, folks.