Tony Maietta:
 Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta

Brad Shreve:
 And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies. 

Tony Maietta:
 We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too. 

Brad Shreve:
 And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter,

Tony Maietta: 
 as does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood. 

Tony Maietta:
Brad, you know, I really hate starting these episodes off on a downer. This will be the second week in a row, but for the second week in a row, we've had a very sad week here in classic Hollywoodland. We just heard of the passing of a true, true icon. Meryl Streep called him a lion. And I could not agree more. The incomparable Robert Redford.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Like you said, I hate starting on a sad note, but to not address it would be criminal. Absolutely. And I thought of you. I didn't dig in to make sure it was accurate. Well, you're most welcome.

Tony Maietta:
I like when you think Robert Redford. You think of me.

Brad Shreve:
Always. Always. You're like Robert Redford and Paul Newman all wrapped into one.

Tony Maietta:
Tony, I am Hubble Gardner. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
No, I thought of you because I read. And like I said, I did not deep dive into it to make sure it was accurate. But I know how much you loved the Way We Were. And I read that Barbara was trying to sing the Way We Were at his funeral and only got a few lines out and nearly dropped.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I saw that, too. It looked very, very touching. She. She loved him. No surprise there. She loved him. No. And I also want to point out listener, you know, so obviously Brad and I record these way ahead of time.

Tony Maietta:
So it's hard for us to be timely when we have these people passing. But the fact is, is that people are passing, and I don't. I can't just ignore it. So by the time this drops, Robert Redford will probably have been gone for a few weeks. But just pretend like it's not when you hear that and just let us know our heartfelt sadness about the passing of this true icon, not just for his career as an actor and a director. We just talked about his brilliant work in Ordinary People. But Sundance, I mean, he basically reinvented independent film with Sundance.

Brad Shreve:
And I. Have I told you why I hate Robert Redford.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, God, Brad, you can't help yourself, can you?

Brad Shreve:
He's incredibly handsome, intelligent, talented, and charming. Nobody should be allowed to have all that together. It's just wrong. But thankful to us. That's what we got. And. And I don't regret that for a second. He was just an icon, as you said.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, as we talked. As we said last season when we talked about the Sting. God, you just. There are some shots of him in the Sting where you're just like, oh, come on, on, dude, nobody is that perfect looking, but he is. And not only that, his soul was perfect. So Godspeed. You're with the angels now. Mr.

Tony Maietta:
Redford, you were a true icon. Now on to today's episode, shifting gears. Not really, because this is a change of pace for us in many ways. We are doing a musical. We are doing a rock musical. And this is Brad's baby. Because I have been talking non stop at feels for the past months and months, so.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I haven't noticed.

Tony Maietta:
I want to pull up a chair and let Brad fly this plane. As I always say, go for it. Karen Black, you want to. You want to introduce this film, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Let me start by saying why I chose this film.

Tony Maietta:
Well, let's tell them what it is first. Don't you think we should tell them what the film is?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, it's Jesus Christ superstar from 1973, and it actually was the first rock opera stage play as far as I recall, and actually the first rock opera movie. I could be wrong about that one.

Tony Maietta:
Well, rock opera. Opera. There was Hair, but hair was not an opera. So. Yes, I'm gonna let you have that. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Thank you. The reason I chose this is this movie is messy and brilliant, which makes it a very human story. And so before we dive in, I want to clarify something. I am not a religious guy in any way, shape, or form. I don't read the Bible for spiritual guidance, but I am fascinated by history and religion. So I read it like a really intense historical drama with wild plot twists, and there are tons of those in the Bible.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
So if I talk about Jesus and Judas like characters in a story, it's not out of disrespect. It's just how my brain works and the way I frame it. And that's what I love about Jesus Christ Superstar. It's not really about divinity. It's about people. It's messy, emotional, political. It's human. And to me, that's what makes this an interesting story.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I love that. I love that take, Brad. That's. That's fantastic. I agree with you. Well, it is. You know, they are characters in a story. They are characters in a story.

Tony Maietta:
So I think it's good to look at it that way. And I just want to give a little disclaimer here. I haven't seen this film since college because we did this film. We did this play, the opera, the show in college. I was not in it because I don't think there were any crooners in Jerusalem. I'm much more Sky Masterson than Judas Iscariot. But anyway, my friend Tom played Herod, and that I do remember, and he was brilliant. And if you're listening, Tom Rocco out there in Long Island.

Tony Maietta:
Hi, Tom. But I haven't seen this movie in 30 years or more and I was really, I was blown away by it again. And I just want to say that to put this in context for me, I've had a very busy couple days. I was, I just did back to back documentaries which never happens and I'm so grateful, but it never happens. But I was like, oh, wow. I mean, one and then another one the next day. And the first one I did, this is why I'm bringing this up, was for Ben Hur. And what's so funny about it, Ben Hur's subtitle is a tale of the Christ.

Tony Maietta:
Because Ben Hur, the backdrop of Ben Hur is what we just watched in Jesus Christ Superstar. So it's very funny. Obviously it is much, much different. But it's kind of interesting that I'm dealing with these two, these two films which deal with the story of Christ in two very different ways going on.

Brad Shreve:
What I said is if you look at this film, there are no miracles in this film. They're referred to. But again, that's part of what to me makes it a human story. And I have full respect for different religions. That's why I study them. I'm fascinated by them. And I've really studied Christianity only because, you know, at that time period there was a different prophet of the week. And I'm fascinated by the fact that out of all those prophets, Jesus is the one that has continued.

Brad Shreve:
And I find that fascinating and studied why that likely happened. And actually that gets me to one of the problems I have with this film. Jesus had to have been extremely charismatic. And Ted Neely could have been a mannequin in this film.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you know what, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, he is the dullest Jesus I think that's ever been portrayed.

Tony Maietta:
Casting the role of Jesus Christ is always problematic. As you can imagine. Most filmmakers avoid it by showing the back of the guy's head and Ben Hur, both versions of Ben Hur, we don't see Jesus. We see people reacting to Jesus, but we don't see Jesus. But you have to have, when you're doing a rock opera about Jesus and Jesus is singing, you kind of have to show him. So I see what you're saying. I personally liked him in this. I thought he was, I, I, I, he had some charisma.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, what are you gonna do? You know, it's interesting too. This is the Second this year, 1973, a very religious year. In films, by the way. The Exorcist also this year. And the. The other Jesus musical, Godspell, Same.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I didn't know that.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it's so funny. And Victor Garber played. You know who Victor Garber is, don't you, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
I know the name. I probably will know him if I.

Tony Maietta:
He's probably. He's a wonderful Broadway TV actor. He played. He was in the original Sweeney Todd. But anyway, he played Jesus in that Godspell. And Godspell was a bomb. This movie was not. This movie was a big hit.

Tony Maietta:
So it's interesting that we have these two different Jesus movies in 1973, along with that devil movie in 1973. Should we tell the folks what. I don't know if they know what Jesus Christ Superstar is about.

Brad Shreve:
Sure. Do you want. Do you want to have that?

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah, since this is your. Since this is your show, I'll talk about it. You know, it's basically the last seven days of Jesus Christ's life there. I just told you. That's what it is. Yeah, it's got all the usual suspects in it. The apostles. It's got that last dinner they all have together.

Tony Maietta:
It's got that whore that's in love with Jesus, Mary Magdalene. It's got the guy who senses him to death, Pontius Pilate. And it has, of course, the ultimate betrayer with his Judas Kiss, Judas. And what's interesting about Jesus Christ Superstar, the film is the fact that it is presented as like a troupe of players are putting this on. It's not literally, here's Jesus in the last seven days. No, it's presented in the context of. Or the illusion of a troupe of players putting this play on. They pull up in this Partridge Family style bus and they get out in the middle of Israel and put on a rock opera for us.

Tony Maietta:
And then at the end, they climb back in the bus and drive away. All except for one character, which we'll get to in the end. And that's the story of Jesus Christ Superstar.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And the whole reason for the bus. People find that confusing with the bus and the planes and the tanks is to put it, you know, the most recent. They did the TV version of Jesus Christ Superstar with, oh, I can't remember the singer's name. Guy played Judas was incredible. Just like I think Carl Anderson is incredible in this film and downright gorgeous. But that's. That probably is one of the reasons why I love this film.

Brad Shreve:
But they recently did it and it. They were dressed in leather and chains. They all had tattoos. This movie is trying to do what. What that recent version did, and that's to put all of this in today's perspective. These people were all outcasts. So if we do it today, let's make them outcast that in a way that people can relate to today. And that's what we get.

Brad Shreve:
So, yeah, they're all hippies driving up in buses.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, yes. And with some anachronistic shout outs, some patent tanks come in. We have a cameo by the Supremes. Air quotes. Supremes. Yeah. It's really interesting. Plus, it's a.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it's a rock opera, so, you know, it can't really be set. There's gotta be a. There's gotta be some kind of scrim. That's the only word I can think of right now to come down, to separate us from this story. Because clearly this is a take on it. This is a presentation on it. And Norman Jewison is really driving that point home when he says these people are performing it. Except for that in that little one little twist at the end, which is fascinating.

Tony Maietta:
That's the way it's presented.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. I'm going to have you go a little bit into it. I was going to say you said this is an interpretation, and I'm glad you said that because I'm not going to try. I'm going to try not to get too much in the historical context. But I will say the way Mary is portrayed drives me crazy. The way Pontius Pilate is portrayed is pretty good, actually. Mary's portrayed awful and it's the way that she's always been portrayed, and it's not accurate. Judas is actually, to me, portrayed correctly.

Brad Shreve:
If you read the Gospel of Judas, which we may get into later. But there are no real villains in this film. Everybody's doing what they think is best. Judas is doing what he thinks is best to protect Jesus followers and probably Jesus himself. The priests are trying to protect the community against Rome.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
You know, I like the fact that there are no real villains. The only one that. Well, we'll get into Herod. I love Herod for. For various reasons, but that's all I wanted to say about that. We'll get more into those, but I'd like you to tell more about the film. Give us the show.

Tony Maietta:
Jesus Christ Superstar began as a concept album because Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice, who wrote this piece, were unable to get backing for a stage production. So they had done one musical before this. They had done Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. But it was a short piece. It wasn't the full Joseph that we see now, if we see Joseph. And they couldn't get the backing, so they thought, well, why don't we just record an album of the songs and maybe that will help. Interestingly, they did the same thing with Evita a few years later. Evita started also as a concept album, not a show.

Tony Maietta:
But the buzz from the album was so great that they got the backing for the show. So it. There was. There were many productions happening. But there was a production on Broadway that premiered in 1971 which had many of these same people in it. Ted Neely was in it. He was an understudy for Jesus, though he didn't play Jesus. Carl Anderson was originally the understudy for Judas.

Tony Maietta:
Ben Vereen was playing Judas, but then Ben Vereen got sick and Carl Anderson stepped in. And then they alternated the part. Yvonne Elliman as Mary, she was in the original. So so many of these people. And. And this is the man who brings it to the film, Barry Denon, who plays Pontius Pilate. Do you know who Barry Denon is, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
No, I don't know him. I saw him at a party once, but I didn't go up and talk to him. That's all I could tell you about it.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, really? You saw him? You did? At a party?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Yes.

Tony Maietta:
How funny.

Brad Shreve:
A friend of ours wanted to introduce us and we got sidetracked and never, never happened. So that's my extent. That's my brush with greatness.

Tony Maietta:
Okay, well, I have to talk about Barry Denon, not only because he's responsible for this film being made, but because he's very great, not only in history, but in gay history. Gay history in particular, owes Barry Dennen a debt because we have to say, his other claim to fame besides Pontius Pilate is the man who discovered. Yes, Barbra Streisand. We just talked about her. He knew her when she was Barbara. Okay. That's how long he knew her. Did you have any idea about that, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
No. No. Okay, I'm glad you mentioned that he was. I didn't know that he was openly gay. That's that. Actually, I didn't want to give the frame of reference of the party that I saw him at, but that puts things in perspective. Now. Go ahead.

Tony Maietta:
That's up for debate. Okay, so Barry, who at that time pronounced his name bare B a r e accent, et gu and Barbara, they both changed their names, met in 1960, and according to him, they got involved in a romantic Relationship, even though he identified primarily as gay. Now, according to Ms. Streisand, it was just a friendship. And there was some friction between them for a very long time because of the fact that he wrote a book about their air quotes relationship as a romantic relationship, and she did not like that. In her book, she claims they were just friends. But at any rate, what is not disputed is the fact that he was really instrumental in setting her on her path as a singer. Because when they met, she just wanted to be an actress.

Tony Maietta:
She had no idea she was going to have any kind of effect as a singer. But once he heard her sing, he was like, you have to sing. You have this voice. You have to sing. So he was instrumental in helping her develop her style. He got her to do her very first open mic as a singer at a gay club in the village called the lion, with which she won. And that set her on her path to becoming Barbara Streisand.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I had no idea about this background and this history and his connection with Barbara. That's actually pretty surprising because he's not a name. People know that well, if at all, really.

Tony Maietta:
No, he's not. He's not. So how he's important with the whole history of this film is, is that he appeared in the film Fiddler on the Roof, and Fiddler on the Roof was being directed by Norman Jewison. And he brought Norman the original concept album of Jesus Christ Superstar. And Norman listened to it and he just. He said he was so moved by the music. He said he was flooded with exciting visual images. And he heard listening to it.

Tony Maietta:
He knew he wanted to direct this. He knew he wanted to have some part in bringing this to the big screen. And that's what happened. He found out that the film was. Had. Was owned. The film rights were owned by MCA Universal. He went to Universal, said, I want to do this film.

Tony Maietta:
In the meantime, Fiddler on the Roof ended up being a tremendous success. It was one of the few very successful post Sound of Music films. And they said, okay, Norman, go for it. So that's how Norman Jewison became attached to the film project. That's all I gotta say.

Brad Shreve:
I never would have known any of that, though. That's actually pretty fascinating.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that's why you got the historian here. That's why.

Brad Shreve:
Exactly. That is why we have the historian here. So let's toss it out there. I'd like to know your thoughts on this film.

Tony Maietta:
Hmm.

Brad Shreve:
Uh.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, should I pull a Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
If that is the truth, I'm gonna pull a Brad. And that I'm gonna be totally honest about it, but I'm not. I am never ever. I have never, ever been a fan of rock operas. I'm just not. It's just not my cup of tea fair. I do do love the music from this, though. I mean, I don't know how to love him.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, is there more, Is there. Is there a more gut wrenching, codependent torch song then I don't know how to love him. It's astounding to me. It's astounding. And, you know, it was a hit. Helen Reddy recorded it, took it right, right under the nose of Yvonne Elliman. It went to number 13 when Helen Reddy did it. I like this film.

Tony Maietta:
I do. I don't know that I would ever watch it again unless someone said, I want to watch this film. Do you want to watch it? I was incredibly moved by portions of it. It's kind of like seeing the forest for the trees or trees for the forest or whatever that expression is. There are moments of this which I'm stunned by and I'm excited to talk about. Overall, I don't get into the whole Jesus rock thing. It just doesn't. It's not my cup of tea.

Tony Maietta:
It's not. That's how I feel.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And I get it. There are. This movie just overwhelms me. I just love it. And I watch it every few years. I think it's a masterpiece, but I also think it's an absolute disaster. And sometimes in the same scenes, you know, some of the songs I think are just some songs I want to put sticks in my ears because I can't take them.

Brad Shreve:
Some songs I think are done or some scenes I think are done. Well, some are like, oh my God, what were they thinking? But as I said at the beginning, the overall tone and the overall story and the very human aspect of this story, the story of how we put somebody on a pedestal and then we can't wait to tear them down again. How you can have somebody devoted to someone and love them, but feel like they're on the wrong track and you. You have to make a decision on how to correct that situation. Those are what I. That's what I'm passionate about in this film.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you. It's very. The filmmaking. It, to me is what's so striking. And you know, we. We briefly talked on Norman Jewison, the director of this film. We talked about him during our Judy Garland show episodes.

Tony Maietta:
I don't know if you remember that But Jewison was part of the second regime that came in after the Maldonian massacre of her first team. After five episodes, they were all gone. CBS brought in Norman Jewison to direct the show to get her to 13. Because. And I don't think I mentioned this during our Judy Garland show episodes, which is so stupid, because he's the one who directed her phenomenally successful special with Dean and Frank, the one that beat Bonanza. So they're like, let's get Norman back in here. Because he showed she could be Bonanza. Anyway, this isn't about Judy.

Tony Maietta:
I know it's hard to believe, but it's not. It's about Jesus, the other J. So Jewison, you know, like Sidney Lumet, like Sidney Pollock, like William Friedkin. He cut his teeth on early television, but Jewison was primarily directing music, variety specials like Judy's. And then he switched to films. But his first films were comedies. He did Doris Day comedy, the Thrill of It All. He did one with Dick Van Dyke.

Tony Maietta:
And then he changed course and he directed this little film about a black lawyer who travels to the south to help solve a murder. And do you know movie I'm talking about, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
I know, and I'm. The name is escaping me, and I'm gonna really hate myself for it.

Tony Maietta:
They call me Mr. Tibbs.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, thank you.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. In the Heat of the Night. In the heat of the night.

Brad Shreve:
And the heat of the Night was there. And I'm like, no, that's not the one. So, yeah, there we go.

Tony Maietta:
So anyway, he directed in the Heat of the Night. Huge success, best film. He did not win an Oscar, though, which is kind of sad. He's never won an Oscar. He had three Oscar nominations. He won the Irving Thalberg Award, which is what they give to producers in 99. He won it, but never won an Oscar. He then went on to do Fiddler on the Roof, which was, as I said, a tremendous success, which led directly to this film.

Tony Maietta:
Have you ever seen Fiddler on the Roof, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Ages ago. Ages.

Tony Maietta:
Ages ago. If we ever do a musical month, I would love to talk about Fiddler, because I love this movie.

Brad Shreve:
Anyway, we should, because there's others I have in mind.

Tony Maietta:
Good. Well, you heard it here first, folks. So, Jewison. I think that's what I love about this movie, though. The things I love are what Jewison. Jewison's vision, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. The things that Jewison puts in, which are so stunning and so startling, I find remarkable about this film. So, yeah, mixed emotions.

Tony Maietta:
About it.

Brad Shreve:
Let me go back to the cast a little bit. I'm gonna run through the main cast and characters. Jesus Christ was played by Ted Neely. Now, Ted was a rock drummer and a singer before going to Broadway. Apparently, probably the most criticism you see about this film is about him. So some people loved him, Some people love his song. In Round the Last Supper. I can't think of the scene.

Brad Shreve:
I think there's. There's some. I don't think he can have high notes. Sometimes I'm like, wow, he's really good. And then he hits the high notes. I'm like, oh, no, don't do that. You're probably gonna disagree with me.

Tony Maietta:
There's a couple times in there, I think it's the Last Supper scene, or right before his crucifixion, he hits a note that I think is like an N. It's so high. Really? You think he doesn't hit the high notes?

Brad Shreve:
I don't think so. I don't think so. And like I said, I think he is a cardboard character. He's just dull to me. Some people had the issue with him being the European Jesus and they had a black man as Judas, but Carl Anderson wanted this role. So anybody that is upset by that, get over yourselves.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, God.

Brad Shreve:
I do have issues with the. I do have issues with the European Jesus, but that's been going on for centuries. You know, let's not get on that high horse.

Tony Maietta:
Go talk to Leonardo da Vinci.

Brad Shreve:
Exactly.

Tony Maietta:
Michelangelo, if you're gonna have problems with that.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So after Ted Neely playing Jesus again, we have Carl Anderson, who I think carried the film. And to me, this film is mostly Judas's perspective of what went on. The first song in the film, Heaven on Their Minds, sets the stage totally. It is. Tells us his mixed feelings that he believes in what they're doing, but it's going the wrong direction. We're pushing too hard.

Brad Shreve:
They're gonna come at us. I'm trying to think of the actual line. It was beautiful, but now it's sour.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And think of how many times in your life you've dealt with stuff like that. And you.

Tony Maietta:
Can I correct you? I think it's. I think it's. It's beautiful, but now it's all gone sour. How many syllables can I get out of sour?

Brad Shreve:
Well, he's saying it many times. He's saying it during several lives.

Tony Maietta:
But ye, I'm slaughtered. That I know.

Brad Shreve:
But I love his singing, and I absolutely love that song. I could listen over and over Again, phenomenal. So stop it. Stop it. And he went on to a. I think he's the only one. Von Eliman has always been respected for her music. Her voice is just.

Brad Shreve:
To me, it's just golden. But Carl Anderson, to me, just had the power. And I feel like he carried the film sometimes. His. His reactions were a little too. Almost identical in every scene, but he still carried it. For me, I think he was the standout. Tortured, passionate, tragic.

Tony Maietta:
Agree.

Brad Shreve:
Von Eliman, despite the fact that I hate when Mary's portrayed as a horror. There is nothing in the Bible that says that you can blame one of our earliest popes that did that. And the patriarchy is believed to have said, oh, we like that because it tears her down. But we won't go any further. It merely says that she was a fallen woman. There was a woman. There is another Mary in the Bible that is a prostitute. And it is believed that one of the early popes confused the two during one of his sermons or speeches.

Tony Maietta:
Way to go.

Brad Shreve:
Okay. That is my take on it. It's never said that she was. I'm not saying she wasn't, but there's no proof that she ever was. But they go there in this film and I get it because everybody seems to think so. And that's what they're taught in church a lot. And. But she's just amazing to.

Brad Shreve:
And she's beautiful in a very unique way. And her voice just is. Her voice is like butter.

Tony Maietta:
It is like butter.

Brad Shreve:
It really is. And like you said, heaven on their minds with Judas. Her song, I Don't Know How To Love him and Everything All Right, Everything's All Right is just a beautiful song to me.

Tony Maietta:
I love that too.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, it's just gorgeous and just. It's. It's more sing songy. But that's a bad. That's a bad thing to say because that makes it sound like it's a bubblegum song. And it's not in any way, just not as similar to some of the other songs in this. And those are the three main ones. Other cast members we have is as Tony mentioned, Barry Denon as Pontius Pilate, Bob Bingham as Caiaphas.

Brad Shreve:
And then we have Kurt Yagahen. Do you know how to pronounce that, Tony?

Tony Maietta:
I have no idea.

Brad Shreve:
He played Annis, who is probably one of the most annoying voices in the history of film. King Herod, played by Josh Mostel, who was a lot of fun. Simon, played by Larry Marshall. And I love Simon. I've heard the cast members talk about What a fun person he was. And you can kind of see that he's just kind of an overtop guy. Especially when you see him come on and off the bus, the way he's dressed.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And then there's Peter, who's downright gorgeous, who went on to a career in adult cinema. We shall say.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, really?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. He did both producing and starring. And if you look at him, you can kind of see why.

Tony Maietta:
Kind of like that guy from Two Guys A Girl in the Pizza Place.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, yes. I think this guy was a little more successful, but I can't say that because they didn't have only fans back then. And people are making a ton of money on only fans. So I really can't say that.

Tony Maietta:
Let me ask you, do you like Herod's song?

Brad Shreve:
I do like Herod's song and here's the reason.

Tony Maietta:
The great Jesus.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, the reason why I like Herod's. A lot of people love it because they felt like it was a release during this sometimes very heavy film. Other people found it jarring. Here's what I loved about it. Herod was pure evil. The entire. There was more than one King Herod. The entire Herod family were nasty, vile, murderous, disgusting people.

Brad Shreve:
And to make this guy a Broadway campy cabaret song and dance number is such. It just worked for me for that very reason.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And the fact that it's Josh Mostel, the son of Zero Mostel, who, you know, the original Tevye and fiddler and a very great burlesque style Broadway star, just puts that point home.

Brad Shreve:
And I just learned that. So that was really surprising.

Tony Maietta:
Let me ask you another question.

Brad Shreve:
Sure.

Tony Maietta:
Another question. Do you know Hamilton? Are you familiar with Lin Manuel Miranda's Hamilton?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, I am.

Tony Maietta:
Do you think maybe that Lin Manuel Miranda was doing a little reference to or nod to Herod's song in Hamilton with the George III song I'll Be Back, starring my boyfriend Jonathan Groff.

Brad Shreve:
That is a good possibility. I will say there's a good possibility that. On the other hand, I think it is kind of a fun idea to take somebody that's villainous and make them campy and kind of make fun of them. So.

Tony Maietta:
Right. But the fact that he just. He drops in just like George III in Hamilton, drops in, sings this fun song about horrible things, about death, you know, killing people. But it's done, like, with us, you know, it's done with like. It's a fun, campy song and then he kind of disappears. Now, I know Herod doesn't just disappear. But I just. I just thought that was an interesting nod.

Tony Maietta:
I really thought. I was wondering if maybe Lin Manuel Miranda, if anybody knows, let us know. Text me, let me know about it. I just wonder about that.

Brad Shreve:
You are right, because Herod is seen later, but he doesn't really. He's just watching Jesus getting the lashes. So it's not like he has another speaking role. That, that really was it. And you know, I said cabaret. It's actually more burlesque more than anything else. The whole. His whole palace and, and everybody there is just.

Brad Shreve:
It's. It's. It's laughable. It's laughable. And to me, it's a nice release in the film. And for the reasons I think it makes fun of a very vile man who probably would not be too pleased with the way he was portrayed in this film.

Tony Maietta:
No, of course not. Of course not. Neither would George iii.

Brad Shreve:
No, no, neither would George iii. You are correct on that. So we talked about the songs. I'd like to hear your take on these different songs. The pluses. What you. Your pluses and minuses, or would you rather.

Tony Maietta:
Okay. As I said, you're flying this plane. Karen Black. So I love Heaven on Their Mind. I. I know. I love that. The beginning of it, the.

Tony Maietta:
The chords that. I'm not going to sing it, don't worry people. But I just. I love the beginning of it. It has such energy and that. That chord structure is just so galvanizing. I love that song. Love it, love it, love it.

Brad Shreve:
And I love the lyrics.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I do too. I do too.

Brad Shreve:
It really sets the stage for what this is about.

Tony Maietta:
It gives you kind of an idea of what is going on in Judas mind. He's not just some evil turncoat. He's really afraid that this is going too far, folks, you know, so it gives you. It lets you into his psyche a little bit, which I like. Right off the bat, right off the bat we see, oh, this main. This is not a black and white cardboard character. This guy has some real fears here about what is happening to his friend Jesus Christ.

Brad Shreve:
Exactly. And that is, I think, really important in this story is that they are friends. And you can see his love for Jesus. It's not that he disliked the man. And just to kind of touch on the fact that he is not shown as evil really, in the Bible as it stands, he's not shown as evil as he's portrayed in Sunday schools. I mean, he has its faults for sure, but he was conflicted. And if you read the book of Judas, which they did not make conical because early folks did not like it. He is much more portrayed as a conflicted man.

Brad Shreve:
He's also portrayed as a man that was fulfilling Jesus's instructions. There are two people. I do want to get on this because I'm trying not to get too historical here, but I think this is important for Judas. There is a historical documentation of most of the people in the New Testament. They existed one way or another. They exist in these stories. The two people that are least historical proof that they existed are Jesus Christ and Judas. Now, very few historians believe that Jesus did not exist.

Brad Shreve:
There's just, even though there's no physical evidence, there's just too much about Jesus and you'd be hard pressed. There are some arguments that he didn't exist, but that's kind of in the fray. There are some legitimate arguments that Judas was not true and that he was written in to fulfill prophecy that was made. And there's aspects in the story that I don't think he's mentioned in some of the. I think it's Peter's gospel. I'm not sure. I don't want to get too much into that. So I think that's really interesting that he was brought in to be this conflicted, sometimes evilly portrayed character.

Brad Shreve:
Is evilly a word? I don't know, I just made it one. And to me, that's an important part of the. Important part of the story. I mean, it's, it's like I've said many, many times, it's the reason I love this story. So let's move on. You already said you, like, everything's all right and, and I don't know how to love him.

Tony Maietta:
I love him. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Especially I don't know how to love him. And that is probably the most iconic song in this film.

Tony Maietta:
It's very iconic. And I love the fact that she's expressing her feelings. She's like, I don't know how to deal with this man who doesn't want me just for my body. So, you know, I'm sure many people could. That could be their theme song too. I'm like, oh, you actually want me for my soul, for my brain, for my heart. You don't, you're not, you're not gonna get all up into this. Oh, okay.

Tony Maietta:
You know, I think it's. I think it's wonderful. I mean, it's an iconic song. How can you possibly find fault in it? It's a great song. It's a great song.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And from a fictional standpoint or from A storyline standpoint. I love the fact that she is portrayed as a former prostitute. I love the fact that she is in love with Jesus Christ. But both of those. She was considered one of the apostles, really. I mean, nobody likes to admit that, but she was. But I like the way she's portrayed in this story.

Brad Shreve:
So we've talked about some of the hit songs and I want to talk about some of the ones that I think are terrible. And it's not because I want to get in song by song, but because it really. These are like the. The tragic parts of this film. And I say tragic not in a story way, but filmmaking way. I hate the way the priests are portrayed. I hate their songs. I don't hate the way they're portrayed.

Brad Shreve:
Let me back up the fact that they are dealing with political rather than religious aspects here. I like that aspect of it. But their songs are. Oh, my God. Every time they sing, I just want to scream. Especially the Jesus must die. Oh, my God. If I wasn't.

Brad Shreve:
I would fast forward it. If I wasn't watching it for this episode. It just.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, no, I agree with you. It's a little too. Too much.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
I would love to talk about some of the things in this film. Some of the scenes in this film which I find really stunning and I think are. That come from the mind of Norman Jewison in this incredible production. Should we go to that?

Brad Shreve:
That's fine. And I think that's kind of what I was trying to do. It's hard for me to pull away from the actual songs and not do that. So I'm glad you're going to take that on. Thank you.

Tony Maietta:
Well, please insert a song here if.

Brad Shreve:
Go ahead and I will do so.

Tony Maietta:
Insert a song. If I'm talking about a song, I just want to say that, you know, so the film shooting Jesus Christ Superstar took place at more than 20 locations in four Palestinian and Israeli camp bases. Isn't that amazing to me that we. I mean, not exactly a calm time in the Middle East. When is it a calm time in the Middle East? But not exactly the calmest time in the Middle east in the early 70s. Okay. And the fact that this film, this film could go there and shoot and got the cooperation of the Israeli government, by the way. Well, well, they lent him some tang.

Brad Shreve:
They kind of thought maybe we shouldn't have done that when it was all said and done.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I know, but it was partially supported. The budget was partially supported by the Israeli government. So we're talking about Jerusalem, the Dead Sea, Beersheba Nazareth, of course. And I hope I say this right. Herodium in the West Bank. So I wrote that down. Herodium. And I hope I'm saying that right, not Emotium.

Brad Shreve:
I'll give it to you.

Tony Maietta:
Thank you. And like I said, the budget was partially supported by the Israeli government and it was set at just under 3.5. Something else I find really amazing is there's that scene where Judas is in the middle of the desert, just surrounded by dunes. There's nothing around him, and it's pretty close to when he is going to betray Jesus. And the tanks start coming over the hill, you know, and you're like, this is one of the incredible anachronistic things about this film is the fact that, okay, where are we here? Are we in 1973 or are we in 4 BC? Where are we? Or 4 AD or whatever you're. I always get confused with my AC and my BD. And the tanks are representing the might of Rome that Judas feared they were going to bring onto Israel because of Jesus's goings on, because of his shenanigans, because of what he was doing. This gives real motivation to the part of Judas, why he's trying to stop this from happening because he's really afraid of the power of Rome.

Tony Maietta:
And I love that. And those were real patent tanks that the. That the Israeli government got from the US and loaned to the production. So I love that. I love that.

Brad Shreve:
And it's not really that subtle, but I think a lot of people don't get that. That that is to represent the Romans moving in. And, you know, the same thing with the jets. And I got to tell you, that scene terrifies me because Borkarl Anderson, it may. It was probably the camera angle, but he looked like he was right under those tanks and running from them and terrified for him, that scene. And when he's running away from the Last Supper after he betrayed Jesus and he's running in that mob of sheep, and I'm waiting for him to get trampled. Both of those I felt for the man. Anyway.

Tony Maietta:
Stunning scene.

Brad Shreve:
Bring us back on track.

Tony Maietta:
The anachronistic touches in this. In this movie are really fun. I mean, we'll talk later about the amphitheater and I already said the Supremes and it becomes a rock concert. It's. It's a lot of fun. I just think it's a brilliant little touch of Jewison's.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And, you know, the same thing happens in the. I said I don't know how to love him was probably the most song known song from this film. I'd say it's probably neck and neck with Jesus Christ Superstar. And in Jesus Christ Superstar, Judas is. After he's dead, he comes down from the sky and he's asking Jesus like, why did you pick such a backward time in such a strange land?

Tony Maietta:
That's right.

Brad Shreve:
I. I forget what the line is, but Israel and for BC has no mass communication. I mean. Yeah, yeah. Israel and Forbes.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brad Shreve:
It's like.

Tony Maietta:
It's brilliant. It's brilliant. I love that. I love that.

Brad Shreve:
It really is.

Tony Maietta:
One of my very favorite scenes is the leper scene. I just love the way he shot that with the lepers, like coming out of the cracks in the stones, like they're in the crevices, like they're insects. It is so creepy.

Brad Shreve:
It is.

Tony Maietta:
Jesus healing the lepers is a very well known story. And I love how they film it because it's ironic. In Ben Hur, the lepers are all in this big valley. It looks a little bit like Encino. It's just big. But seriously.

Brad Shreve:
Well, some would say that fits. That is. Look, it's like Encino, but we won't go there.

Tony Maietta:
Where the lepers are hanging out. And in. In Jesus Christ Superstar, they come crawling and slithering out of the cracks of all these and they overwhelm him. It's a frightening scene and so terrifying. I love that scene. They eventually overtake him.

Brad Shreve:
It gives me the wellies. It really is creepy.

Tony Maietta:
It is, it is. And we have this whole romantic idea of Jesus healing the lepers. And then you get this take on it where they're like coming at him and slithering, like insects overwhelming him. It just. It's crazy. It's crazy. One of my very favorite scenes is the Last Supper scene. You know any of the background of the.

Tony Maietta:
How Jewison created that scene, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
No. I love the song because I think it's funny. But.

Tony Maietta:
I love when they freeze.

Brad Shreve:
No, tell me the background on that.

Tony Maietta:
They freeze in their position.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I love. I always hoped I could be an apostle. I knew I could make it if I tried. Then one day when I retire, I can write the Gospels and they'll still talk about me when I die. I think that's hysterical. But anyway, go on.

Tony Maietta:
Pulled away from your thoughtful comments, Jewison wanted to film the scene outside. We're all so familiar with the Last Supper from the painting. From the Leonardo da Vinci painting, which is inside. Jewison wanted to film it outside. And he came upon this clearing which had olive Trees. And he asked if there was any way to make that verdant space to get some grass in there. And they said yes, there was, actually. If he planted the grass and they watered it twice a day, in four months there would be grass.

Tony Maietta:
But of course, it had to be surrounded by fences. Nobody went trampling on the grass. Don't walk on the grass. And sure enough, in four months, they had that space. It was the only verdant space in the entire desert. It's this oasis. Beautiful scene. Beautifully shot in this little tiny oasis in the middle of the desert.

Tony Maietta:
Gorgeous.

Brad Shreve:
I didn't know that. That's really interesting. I never thought about the fact that it's the only gardening area, which. It was a garden, so. And actually, that's something always puzzled me. If it was a garden, why were they always sitting in this? It looked like a church they were sitting in. In the painting.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It's beautiful how. But before the scene starts, they all freeze in their positions in the painting.

Brad Shreve:
Just for a second.

Tony Maietta:
I love that. And then they go right into the scene, which is great. And finally. I don't know if we want to get to this yet, but finally, the final shot of the sun setting is phenomenal. Do you know the story about that? The sun setting with the crucifix in the sunlight and the sun setting.

Brad Shreve:
I'm going to guess that was. I'm going to guess it was an accident. Not an accident, but they just lucked out.

Tony Maietta:
It was an accident because as we're seeing this crucifix with the sun behind it, so gorgeous, a gorgeous shot in itself. You see the faint figure of a man walking just below the landscape line, and you're like, oh, what's that? And the man's walking across, and right after him are sheep. It was a total accident. According to Norman Jewison. It was a complete and total accident. And what were they going to do, say, cut. Get the shepherd out of there. They couldn't.

Tony Maietta:
The sun was going down. They had one shot at this. But when you think about it, what did we just see? Jesus is a shepherd. I mean, you could not have planned that. You could not have planned it. To me, that is one of the most stunning final shots I have ever seen ever in a film.

Brad Shreve:
Some people would say divine. That was divine intervention.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly, exactly. I think so. I think so, too.

Brad Shreve:
Going back to the setting, you know, I think something that bothered people are the sets on this film, because, like, the. Where the high priests were were nothing but scaffolding and there were no real. What we consider traditional sets. And it was really important to Jewison that this be filmed on location. And what are they going to do? Build a temple around these historical artifacts?

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
No, you have to protect them and honor them. And that's what they did. And actually, to me, it made it feel more like the stage play as well.

Tony Maietta:
I'm sure Jewison is so underrated. You know, he really does. I have my issues with him for what he did to Judy Garland in the Judy Garland show, but he also loved her, so I can't hold that against him. But Jewison is such an underrated filmmaker, producer and director. The fact that he made this film, he made this film so entertaining, same thing with Fiddler on the Roof in a totally different way that he made it so engrossing and just he used the energy of the music to tell this story. And the energy, the music not only infuses the film with this energy that you would not have gotten, I don't think with another director who had such a. Jewison was also a musician, so he had that. He had that ear.

Tony Maietta:
The music informs this film and gives it this energy and this. And Jewess and gives it this view that I don't think any other director would have given it. I think it's. He's a very underrated director. I highly, highly recommend it.

Brad Shreve:
To me. He made this film what it was. I mean, obviously Rice and Weber.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Did that, but I think it was in the right hands to take their. To what I consider their masterpiece and make it work.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And this is for posterity. You know, there will always be productions of Jesus Christ Superstar in every high school, in every college in the United States. They just did it at the Hollywood bowl with Cynthia Erivo not that long ago. And I hear it was two nights and I didn't go, but I heard it was stunning.

Brad Shreve:
Now, did you know that the Pope gave this movie his blessings?

Tony Maietta:
I didn't. The current Pope or the Pope then?

Brad Shreve:
No, the Pope then. You know, there was obviously a lot of negative impact, both positive and negative regarding this film. And the Pope didn't necessarily like the film and the portrayal, but what he said, and I don't have the exact quote, I wish I did, basically this film reached out to more young people than he ever could have possibly done so and the church would have been able to do so. And I will say this movie is partially what gave me my interest in the Bible. Granted, I grew up in a non religious household, so I took it from a different man. But I'm Almost certain that a lot of people were probably, if not converted, they looked a little more deeply into Christianity than they would have otherwise. So I think it definitely had an impact in that sense. I think the Pope isn't a thousand percent correct there.

Tony Maietta:
Before we go over the stats and the legacy of this film, I want to ask you a question about a scene.

Brad Shreve:
Okay.

Tony Maietta:
This film opens with this troupe of players, traveling players coming in a Partridge Family type bus. And they all get off the bus to perform this play, except Jesus. Suddenly Jesus is just there. And then at the end after the crucifixion scene, they're back in their street clothes and they all get back on the bus except Jesus. And there's only three people who stop and look off camera. And I'm assuming they're looking at the crucifixion. I'm assuming they're looking at the cross and it's Pilate, Mary Magdalene and Judas. So what do you think this film is telling us about? The air quotes character of Jesus Christ?

Brad Shreve:
You know, that is a really good question. And I always, every time I watch that, I'm like, there's a reason why Judas is getting on that bus, because Judas is dead at that point. And I think it was to give it. My guess is, was to give it some honor to Jesus that it wasn't.

Tony Maietta:
Just some actor playing.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. That this. He's not gonna get on the bus, ride away with everybody else.

Tony Maietta:
Hey, I was sitting there. That's my seat. Yvonne, move your ass. Yeah, yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Honor is the only word I can think of, and it is not the right word. But that. I think that is the reason why it was done that way.

Tony Maietta:
And isn't Beri Denon Pontius Pilate? Isn't he in his Pontius Pilate costume when he gets on that bus?

Brad Shreve:
No, he is wearing his Pontius Pilate glasses.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, okay.

Brad Shreve:
But I think. I think the rest of his outfit was more street wear.

Tony Maietta:
I'm saying most of them are all in their street clothes by the end, just as they started. So I thought that was a really interesting thing. Except Jesus, because Jesus doesn't get on the bus and Jesus doesn't get. Didn't go back on the bus.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, we never see Jesus in Streetcarpet.

Tony Maietta:
Never do. So I think that's true. I think they're honoring. You know, he's saying, okay, it's Jesus. We're leaving it there. Should we talk? You want me talking about how this. How this film performed?

Brad Shreve:
I would love to hear that.

Tony Maietta:
Okay. So, yes, it was a Hit. It was the highest grossing musical of that year. Now, there weren't a lot of musicals in 1973. However, it was the highest grossing one because there was another one, as I said, the other Jesus musical, Godspell, which was a bomb. It grows 24.5 million on a $3 million budget. It was nominated was one Oscar nomination for best scoring original song. Score and adaption or scoring Adaption, I.

Tony Maietta:
E. Best score. It lost. You know who it lost to? Brad. We've talked about it before. It was this guy's night. 73.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I'm gonna hate myself.

Tony Maietta:
He won three Oscars that night. Three Oscars.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, tell me, tell me. I'm drawing a blank.

Tony Maietta:
Marvin. Marvin. It was Marvin Hamlisch's night. He won three Oscars that night, and one of which was for score. And then he won the Way We Were Song and this. He won this for the Sting. He won the Oscar for this and for the Sting in the Way We Were. So it was Mavin's Night didn't win any Oscars, but at least it was nominated for one.

Tony Maietta:
And we said before that this was kind of, you know, we already know there was a gospel 73, kind of a religious year, oddly, you know, besides the fact that we had Godspell and Jesus Christ Superstar and the Exorcist, we had a film called Gospel, A Story of Jesus, the Holy Mountain, Brother Son, Sister Moon and Marjo. Those are just a handful of these films. But, you know, this is about the time when I don't think it was the same year as that famous Time magazine cover, Is God Dead? But that was kind of the feeling. It was a pretty godless time. 73. Think about it. Watergate, you know, all the Vietnam, anti Vietnam demonstrations. So it's interesting that we had this, like, slate of religious films happening that year.

Tony Maietta:
So. Interesting year in films. And this is definitely one of the highlights, I believe.

Brad Shreve:
No, I would definitely agree with that a thousand percent.

Tony Maietta:
And here's something interesting. So Jewison said that more people mentioned this film to him than any other film he ever directed. And I mean, this man directed, as I said, Heat of the Night, in the Heat of the Night, Fiddler on the Roof, Moonstruck, which I love, which I hope we talk about sometime. The Russians are coming. The Russians are coming. This man had a very, very nice resume. So isn't it interesting? I really do believe is kind of dovetails with what you said earlier, Brad, about the legacy of this film and the emotion people have for this film because of its religious Background because of the fact that it's about Jesus and it's presented in such an elemental way. I think that people respond to it immediately.

Tony Maietta:
I think that's fascinating.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, I think it goes across the board with believers and non believers because of, as I said, the very human element of the story. This is not, it's not an isolated story. This is a story we all know. Well, I want to talk about one scene in particular, one song. Not necessarily the song, but the scene. And that is Simon with the Zealots. And I really love that scene because I think it's full of energy. I think the actor that plays Simon is perfect for the role because he's acting like this crazy zealot.

Brad Shreve:
That scene with all those dancers, first of all, the choreography I think is great in that scene.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
As I understand it, that scene was filmed in 106 degree weather. And you know, they didn't get that all in one take.

Tony Maietta:
No, of course not.

Brad Shreve:
And they all look fresh, beautiful and full of joy. And I know that is not what they were feeling inside.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you know, Jewison said so much of this film had to be filmed in. During golden hour because. And golden hour, you know, is the time where the sun, there's. The shadows are the most beautiful because otherwise it's just bright sunlight. Nothing's interesting, you know, in the desert at 4pm it's just not interesting to film, so. And plus it was, I'm sure it was too damn hot. So it's kind of interesting that they had to grab all of these scenes during air quotes. Golden hour, which is about, you know, maybe an hour to two hours depending on time of year.

Tony Maietta:
And that sunset, Jesus, I still, I just think about that sunset with the crucifix just up against it in. Oh, gorgeous. Gorgeous ending.

Brad Shreve:
And not just that scene, the scene, you know, when they were in the cave after the Roman guards walk above. Which I think is a great analogy to them being an underground organization.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
You know, that's the lighting and that is beautiful. And from inside the cave the lighting is coming in and then there's a. The scene where the, the guards throw Jews Jesus into this doesn't really look like a cave, but a whole. All that scenery is just gorgeous.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, no, it's beautiful.

Brad Shreve:
You know, and I live in the. I live in a much different looking desert than that. And a lot of people don't think that desert's beautiful. I think, I think it's beautiful here. It's a different type of pretty than what I'm Used to. It's a different type of beauty. We have lots of greenery and trees, and I love the mountains, but, you know, it's just a whole different look and feel, and I think they did that really well.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, Brad, is there anything else we want to say about Jesus Christ Superstar or the podcast or anything else?

Brad Shreve:
Well, let me just wrap up my. My take on this, as I obviously, I love and adore this film, but I love it and I dislike it equally. Let's say it's extremely fraud, but I love it for its brilliance and its humanity, and that's what sticks with me. And that's why I like to. To watch this over and over again. I think for those that see it as a. As a religious story, I think they are appeased with this film. I would picture those that like it as a political story.

Brad Shreve:
There's definitely plenty of politics in there. And for those that just consider a story about love and humanity, I think that's there, too. And all of this is wrapped up into a rock opera, which I know you're not a fan of, but that, to me, that's pretty amazing.

Tony Maietta:
I agree. I agree. I agree. As rock operas go, this one was.

Brad Shreve:
Hey, it was. I didn't put you through Tommy. Oh, you didn't have to watch Ann Margaret get battered with. With beans.

Tony Maietta:
I like Tommy. Tommy's one of my earliest film experiences. I saw Tommy as a kid, and all I could think of was Roger Daltrey. Damn.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, my God. Yes. And I gotta tell you, I had Roger Daltrey hair when I had hair, and I loved Tommy when it came out. I watch it now, and I'm like, it's kind of like watching Animal House, which are. They're very different movies, but I loved both of them, and both of them now I'm like, oh, that hurts.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I haven't seen in a while. Well, Brad, what do you want to say about the podcast?

Brad Shreve:
Well, if you are new to the podcast, welcome, and we hope you enjoyed this. And if you haven't heard or seen Jesus Christ Superstar in a while, go back and watch it and see what you think. And while you're at it, make sure you click that follow button. It's sitting right there on the phone in front of you or on the computer. Click follow so you know when the next episode comes out. And as I always say, you folks that have been listening to us for a while, you hear me say it every week, please rate and review this show so that if others are looking for a podcast, they'll come across this one and say, hey, people like this show. Maybe I should hit the play button.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, that's right. I think they should. I think everybody should. Please. Well, Brad, I guess there's only one thing left to say. But I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye. Let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve:
Okay, Mr. Anderson. No, let's say goodbye.

Tony Maietta:
Goodbye, everybody.