Tony Maietta:
Brad, Picture It. Hollywood, 1990. A handsome, young aspiring actor with dreams of Hollywood stardom has been toiling away for over a year, working to make his dreams come true. Sending out photos, going on auditions, making the humiliating rounds. Then one day, out of the blue, the telephone at his North Hollywood apartment rings. And the voice on the other end of the phone says, my name is Kent Zbornak. I have your picture in front of me, and I'd like you to come in for an interview for our TV show. The young actor is speechless.

Tony Maietta:
Not only is it one of his most popular shows on tv, it's one of his favorites. The young actor summons up the courage to say yes, reports to the studio the very next day. Brad, that TV show was the Golden Girls. And that young actor's name was Jason Priestley. No, I'm kidding. It was me. It was me. I was on Golden Girls.

Brad Shreve:
How many lines did you get?

Tony Maietta:
Let's not talk about it.

Tony Maietta:
That is a true story. That's a very true story.

Brad Shreve:
And his last name was Spornak or Kent Zbornak.

Tony Maietta:
Ken Spornak was the stage manager of the Golden Girls. That's where the name. Yes. He was a friend of Susan Harris's, and she loved his last name. And that's how Dorothy's Bornak and Stan's Bornak got their name from Kent's Bornak. Yeah, it was. It's. He was a great guy.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. That is an absolutely true story. I don't know if you ever knew that. I don't know if I ever told you that I was on the Golden Girls.

Brad Shreve:
You mentioned in passing. We never got into it.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. My very first job in Hollywood, I thought, this is it, baby. I'm on my way. Because it's true. It not only was my favorite tv, it was my favorite TV show. So not only was it really popular, but the fact that I was actually on my favorite TV show. I mean, I used to watch, you know, I used to VCR in college. I.

Tony Maietta:
My first week in Hollywood, I snuck on the set. A friend and I. A friend and I snuck on the set, and we were discovered. And we just said that we got lost and they put us in the VIP seats.

Brad Shreve:
Wow.

Tony Maietta:
So I can still hear my laughing on the soundtrack of that episode. And then about a year later, yeah, I had the honor, privilege of being on the show. It was a remarkable, remarkable experience, which all goes about saying, what are we talking about today, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
We are talking about Golden Girls.

Tony Maietta:
The Golden Girls. The Happy Birthday, Golden Girls. 40th birthday. September 14th, 1985. This show premiered on NBC. And you know, it's funny, I was thinking in the pilot, which we're going to talk about, Dorothy says, I would kill to be 40 again. And well, you are. You are Dorothy.

Tony Maietta:
You all are 40 again. So I'm excited to talk about this. Brad, thank you for, for allowing me to indulge myself in that little story and to talk about this show I love.

Brad Shreve:
Well, that's okay. And you know, before we begin, I've got to do. I gotta backtrack a little. I've got to say an apology to Matt Baume. Our friend Matt Baume.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Because when I interviewed him for my former podcast, I told him I did not like the Golden Girls. I told him it was a terrible TV show. I don't know what it was. The words out of my mouth and the look he gave me. I wasn't able to explain myself because I was tongue tied. So the, the real truth is that is not true. But I couldn't elaborate on what I was saying. And today we will.

Brad Shreve:
I will explain why I said that.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I hope so. Otherwise this is going to be an incredibly short podcast because I don't have that same issue. I love this show. I think so much of America loves this show. You know, what's really kind of funny about this show is I find very humorous about the show, or not maybe humorous, but one of the tests of its classic status is the fact that I think it is more popular today or has been more popular in the last 20 years than it was when it aired. I mean, it is a touchstone for so many young people. I think from the time it went off the air up until today. Have you noticed that?

Brad Shreve:
I don't know if it's as popular. I know it has stayed tremendously popular. So I can't argue that it blows my mind. How many people know this show. Young people today, older folks, just keep watching over and over and over again.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, it's not like people are, you know, streaming who's the Boss? Maybe some people are. I'm sorry, if you're a who's the Boss Fan, I'm sorry, but you know what I mean, this show is. The fact that this show is 40 years old and is still so popular, I think speaks to so many things in its timelessness. The wonderful writing, the phenomenal acting, the comic skills of these four genius comic actresses. I mean, it's just. I put them on to watch them again. They always just. I used to run them background in My, all the time when I was, you know, whenever I was doing anything in the house and I stopped watching for a while and just watching these again, I was so, I was just so happy.

Tony Maietta:
They make me so happy. And I'm very happy to be talking about this show. You know, it was, we were talking about how big it is now, but, you know, it was a huge, huge hit when it started, when it began out of the Gate. Do you remember when we talked about Alice and we said that most TV shows take a while to find their footing? Not true of the Golden Girls. The Golden Girls, I know, exploded. Exploded out of the gate. The Golden Girls, its first season comedy Emmy for best comedy series, Betty White, best comic actress Emmy and the popularity of it. And the first season is phenomenal.

Tony Maietta:
So over its run, it was nominated for 68 Emmys. It won 11, including two for best comedy. And here's something wonderful. Each actress won an Emmy. Now that's very rare. It's only happened on four other sitcoms. Own the Family, Will and Grace, Schitt's Creek. Three other sitcoms where the entire main cast all won an Emmy.

Tony Maietta:
So nobody could be jealous because they all got the gold. The Golden Girls got the gold.

Brad Shreve:
I didn't know the four of them on all in the Family got Emmys.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, they all, they all wanted Emmys. They all want Emmys. You know, it dominated Saturday night. I remember that. Do you remember when it aired on Saturday nights? Did you watch it?

Brad Shreve:
No, I don't. I don't know if I watched this originally or if I watched it only in reruns. Like. I know that sounds strange, but I really can't remember. There was a period when I did not have a television and it was by choice. I moved out of my, my parents home and I didn't care. I was a man. I was an avid reader and I had stopped watching television.

Brad Shreve:
And so I don't really know when I watched this show originally.

Tony Maietta:
You. You were watching sand elsewhere when this was.

Brad Shreve:
Well, that is true. I don't know. Something was going on. I, I really can't explain it. Obviously My, my younger days are a mess and I have no idea what happened. And there are many reasons why. Go figure it out for yourself.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I never, I never met. As I said, I VCR'd these things nightly. I used to bring my little black and white TV to me with the theater. If I was doing a play and during the intermission I would watch 15 minutes of Golden Girls. I wouldn't. Not exactly a method actor. Trick, I'll tell you right now. But I didn't care.

Tony Maietta:
I didn't care. So this show ranked in the top 10 for six out of its seven seasons. The final season, it didn't. Which I don't understand because the final season is probably my very favorite. But at its height, the Golden Girls reached a 30 plus share, which means that 30% of all TVs were tuned into the Golden Girls. Now, when you consider today that a air quotes hit show gets less than a 20% share, for example, the final episode of the Big Bang theory got a 22% share.

Brad Shreve:
All right, that's huge.

Tony Maietta:
In 2019 for today, people say, oh, that's huge. Golden girls was getting 30 plus every week. And that was a different time. Not all these streaming. There was cable, but not all this streaming stuff. But still, that is true when you're thinking it's a. It's a show about four over 50 women, really over 60 women, except for one. That's pretty.

Tony Maietta:
That's pretty astounding achievement. Pretty astounding achievement. Especially since, you know, the idea of putting a show about air quotes elderly women on TV was not burning up the airwaves at the time it was proposed.

Brad Shreve:
No. It's amazing. Ever made it to the air. I think if it was anyone other than Susan Harris, it may not have happened.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, I know, right? Do you know a little bit about how the show came about?

Brad Shreve:
I do know it came from a skit that was done. I'm not sure where this. I'm not sure where the skit was. I thought it was on the Emmys, but I'm almost certain that is not correct.

Tony Maietta:
No, it was a TV special on NBC and it was, it was introducing the network's new season schedule.

Brad Shreve:
Okay, it was Doris Roberts and who else was there? Who was the other one?

Tony Maietta:
Selma Diamond. Selma Diamond.

Brad Shreve:
Boy too. Wonderful. Okay.

Tony Maietta:
They were both at NBC at the time. Selma diamond was on Night Court and Doris Roberts was doing Remington Steele. And they appeared in this skit and the name of the skit to promote Miami Vice. And the name of the skit was. Do you know what the name of the skit was?

Brad Shreve:
Miami. Nice. That I did.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly. And NBC. So they played elderly women living in Miami. And the NBC president at the time, Warren Littlefield, liked the concept and he met with producers Paul Junger, Wit and Tony Thomas, who happened to be pitching another show to him at the time. And he asked them to develop this idea. And Wit asked his wife, the aforementioned Susan Harris of soap fame, to work on it. And that's how it began. And it really appealed to her because, as I said, there had never been anything on TV that addressed this demo, although NBC was asking for shows of women over 40, not 60.

Tony Maietta:
But still, it was something. It was something.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Well, yeah, and I. I think we'll get into it. I think one of the reasons why it. It succeeded was it wasn't old women as they've always been portrayed in television and movies.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly, exactly. So do we want to go. Do you give a little rundown about who exactly? The names of these four women and these four actresses who played these women, and then we can give a little bit of background about how they got. How they got the jobs.

Brad Shreve:
Sure. I can run down and you can tell me how they got the jobs.

Tony Maietta:
That sounds good.

Brad Shreve:
Let's see. The first one we have is the wonderful, extremely talented Bea Arthur. And she played Dorothy Zbornak. And Dorothy was kind of. She was the most grounded individual. I think the show wouldn't have not done well. I don't think she gets enough credit because if it was just Blanche or Rose, it would have been too much. And Dorothy kept things grounded, and she was us into a large degree, as you frequently say.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Dorothy. Arthur considered Dorothy the great balloon pricker. That's what she called her. Someone who, you know, who called out the hypocrisy, the idiocy, the ridiculousness, the over the topness of her two roommates. And you're absolutely right. The show would not have worked without that grounding force. And by the way, you know, it didn't when she left, and they tried to do it without her.

Tony Maietta:
In golden palace, which we'll cover in our next episode. We should probably say we're doing a two parter.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Brad, this is part one. This is part one of our Golden Girls. And we'll handle part two, but we'll get to that. So Dorothy Petrillo is born. Act Hollingsworth, full name. Now, in the pilot or the first season, Dorothy's 55, and Bea Arthur was actually 63. Just like to throw that out there.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. A lot of people think they. A lot of people think they were all in their 50s because they gave younger ages.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Which is. But that is not true. You said Rue McClenaghan was the only one, but let's go to the next one. Rose Nyland was played by Betty White, who is my favorite. She could be blamed for being a little over the top, but I think because it was Betty White, she pulled it off.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Her stories were Ridiculous. Her background at St Olaf were just absurd, and it was like Lake Wobegon to a large degree, but because they came out of her mouth. They did. You didn't go roll your eyes. You're like. You just laughed.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
I loved her.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. So Rose's age was also 55, and Betty was also 63. So Betty and Bea were the same age. And, yes. Rose is not. This is the key that the character Rose is not dumb. She is profoundly naive. Yes.

Tony Maietta:
And Betty said that Jay Sandrich, who directed the pilot or friend of the POD from our MTM episodes, gave her the key to the character when he said that Rose takes every word at face value. Value. She didn't understand double meanings or sarcasm. So as Betty White famously said, if you said to Rose, I could eat a horse, she'd call the aspca. That's the key to the character of Rose.

Brad Shreve:
She's Amelia Bedelia.

Tony Maietta:
She was Amelia Bedelia.

Brad Shreve:
She was Amelia Bedelia. Next we have Bea Arthur's former castmate, Rue McClanahan as Branch Brant as Blanch Devereaux. And I guess you could say she branched because she branched out all over the town. She was the man crazy Southern belle who was unapologetic about her love for sex. They had a lot of laughs at her expense, and she just kind of shrugged them off.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
And she's great because, just like the others, she showed that older women can enjoy sex.

Tony Maietta:
Oh. And then some. And then some. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Blanche Elizabeth Devereaux, whose initial spell. What, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Bed.

Tony Maietta:
Bed.

Brad Shreve:
We talked about. And I had to run it through my head again.

Tony Maietta:
I love how that comes up in one of the later episodes, your initial spell. Bed. And they all just look at each other like, how did we not know this?

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Blanche Elizabeth Hollingsworth Devereaux. So Blanche is 51 in the show. Rue McClahan was also 51. So she's the only one who's actually playing her age in this show.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I didn't know that. I never. I don't recall her age. I know the others kind of fluttered around here and there, different ages, but in the first. At least first few episodes, it was pretty steady, and then they kind of changed as needed.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Well, the key to that is that. And it's not an episode we're going to talk about, which breaks my heart because I love it because it has one of my favorite Dorothy Savage put downs when Blanche is dating the younger man and he. He says to her, you remind me of my mother. And she's Crestfallen. She comes in and she says, for the first time in my life, I feel over 40. And Dorothy says, you know why that is, honey? Because you're over 50. Yeah, 51.

Tony Maietta:
51. And finally, who do we have?

Brad Shreve:
Finally, we have Estelle Getty as Sophia Petrillo, who was actually only supposed to be a very minor character. And much for poor Coco. The show loved her and gave her a. A bigger role. And we never saw Coco after the first episode, which we'll get into.

Tony Maietta:
Alas, poor Coco.

Brad Shreve:
She was Dorothy's mother, which is funny because she was younger than Bea Arthur.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And she did. You know, her. Her. Look, she. She did a great job. You know, she was just funny.

Tony Maietta:
She was funny. She was brilliant. Estelle Getty, brilliant. Yes. Sophia Petrillo Weinstock. Because if you remember, in season three, she got married to character actor Jack Guilford, and then she never heard of him again. He just disappeared.

Brad Shreve:
You know, I was wondering this as I was looking through episodes, and I remembered that she got married, but I also knew he never became a part of the show. And I'm like, you know, was it the typical drunk? And they got annulled. I never knew what happened. So you're telling me it just never was mentioned again?

Tony Maietta:
He just disappeared. He just disappeared. There may be. I think there's a flashback episode in one of the seasons where they have flashbacks to previous seasons, and she mentions him, and she mentions that they got married, and I think she might have mentioned they got annulled. I don't know. I have to look at the episode. I don't remember that off the top of my head. I don't think so, though.

Tony Maietta:
I think they just stayed married. You know, my grandmother got married later in life, and she just never got a divorce. I mean, he didn't die. They just stopped living together. And because they were Catholic, they're not going to get a divorce, so just stayed married. So I think that's what happened with Sophia. I think that's what happened with her.

Brad Shreve:
He went out for cigarettes and they forgot all about him.

Tony Maietta:
Went to get ice cream. Like I need a Gillette in St. Elsewhere. Yes, yes. Sophia is 80, which she makes a point of very frequently in the first season. And Estelle Getty was indeed only 62, so she was indeed one year younger than her TV daughter, Bea Arthur. Dorothy. So I think that's amazing.

Tony Maietta:
So that's your cast. That's your main four. The four Beatles right here. We got. We got them. Dorothy, Rose, Blanche and Sophia. Now, we talked A little bit about how the casting went about. We've.

Tony Maietta:
We've talked about a little bit. I want to go into it then. I want to have a special person tell us. So should I go ahead and talk about, just briefly, the casting, the initial casting of these characters and how it came about? Just remind people.

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely.

Tony Maietta:
Okay. So, you know, when this show was being developed, I think they had every. They called in or considered every single actress of a certain age in Hollywood, but there were ones that were really obvious to them because they were stars. Betty White was a no brainer. Betty White had also just done a TV show on NBC, Mama's Family, with Rue McClanahan playing totally different parts. So they brought them in to read. The first person, actually, though interestingly to be cast was Estelle Getty. Did you know that, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. She wanted one of the other roles, and I can't remember who she read for.

Tony Maietta:
No, no, no.

Brad Shreve:
Didn't she?

Tony Maietta:
No, no, no. She came in for Sofia. No, Estelle Getty.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, I thought it was somebody else.

Tony Maietta:
No. Estelle Getty had done a tour of Torch Song Trilogy, and that show brought her to fame and to the notice of the casting director, Judith Weiner, and she brought her in to read Sophia. And everybody who witnessed this woman's reading said there was no question. This woman blew them all away. Who is this woman? She comes out of nowhere. She had a very slim resume. She had done a lot of stage. Torch Song Trilogy was the biggest thing she ever did.

Tony Maietta:
She appears in Tootsie for a minute. If you blink, you miss her, like very quickly. And so they were just blown away by her. So she was cast, the very first person to be cast, which I thought was really interesting, you know, and it took three hours for them to make her up into Sophia. Now being on the set and seeing what she really looked like as Estelle Getty and then how she transformed into Sophia, I can see that it would take three hours because she looked nothing like Sofia Petrillo. I think we all know that. And the thing about Estelle Getty was, was that she also had a very difficult time with Sophia's Italian American names and expressions. She would always ask the writers, why can't we make her Jewish? She felt much better with Jewish phrases, and you can kind of see that sometimes.

Tony Maietta:
But still, she was brilliant. And Rue McCannahan said she suffered from very, very severe stage fright. And so it got worse and worse, oddly, as the years went on and she became a bigger and bigger star. And it's funny because you know, at the end of her life, she suffered from dementia. And a lot of people suspected that maybe this was the onset of the dementia, but apparently it happened during the entire run of the series. She had a lot of problems because she would get so nervous going in front of this live audience with these three major, major comic stars. So who knows? Up for speculation, but the proof of the pudding is, is that when the cameras are rolling, she nailed it. She nailed it well.

Brad Shreve:
And I, as I understand she had more of a struggle on golden palace, which, you know, she was eight years older, probably.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. So, yeah, And I think the dementia probably was playing. Playing into that then. So as I said before, Betty White and Rue McClanahan were both appearing on Mama's Family on NBC, which was cancelled, and to Rue McClanahan's great relief. But although Rue McClanahan actually left the show earlier, her character Van Fran was written out as having choked on a toothpick, which I think is probably one of the most ignominious deaths in the history of television. So the problem with TV executives is they don't have a lot of imagination. We know this. And so they viewed White, Betty White and Rue McClanahan based on their previous characters.

Tony Maietta:
That is, they looked at Betty White as Sue Ann Nivens, and they looked at Rue McClanahan as Vivian from Maude, who was also very kind of naive and sweet, or Aunt Fran. So. And as we said during our Mary Tyler Moore episode, the women were originally brought in to read. White was going to read for Blanche, Betty White was going to read for Blanche, and Rue McClanahan was going to read for Rose. And even at that point, Rue McClanahan knew she. She's something about Blanch spoke to her. She just didn't think she was right for Rose. And it was.

Tony Maietta:
It was director Jay Sandrich who was directing the pilot, who said, one on two, two switch roles. And that's how that happened.

Brad Shreve:
And as always, it's hard to imagine either of them not playing the roles that they did.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly, exactly. Now, Harris, Susan Harris, who created the show and who worked on the pilot, had worked with Bea Arthur on. On Maude. She'd written an episode of Maude, the abortion episode.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, wow.

Tony Maietta:
And she. She created the role of Dorothy as Air quotes, a Bea Arthur type. However, there was a problem. The NBC executives did not want Bea Arthur, mostly Brandon Tartakoff, because despite her fame as May as Mod and winning Emmys for it, he was hesitant to cast her because she had a very low Q score with audiences. You Know what a Q score is, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
I don't know what a Q score is, but I. I do find it interesting that Maude was on for a long time because people do. Did not like Maude as a character.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, well, she was abrasive. She was the L word. She was liberal, God bless her. And she was very outspoken. She was the liberal Archie Bunker.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
So they were very hesitant. So they wanted to read other actors. And there were some executives who had one specific actor in mind. And do you know this story, Brad? And if you do, let me know.

Brad Shreve:
I don't.

Tony Maietta:
The one they had in mind and the one they brought in to read was none other than Broadway legend Elaine Stritch. Now you know who Elaine Stritch is?

Brad Shreve:
Yep. I had no idea that was.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, that was Elaine. Actually, this is what's really weird is funny, is Elaine told this story in her one woman show at Liberty about reading for Golden Girls. And it's just the story is very funny. Basically, According to Rue McClanahan, Elaine Stritch sabotaged her reading because she was nervous. And she said at the reading, when she was brought in the reading with these producers and with Susan Harris, she said, you'll have to forgive me. When I get nervous, I tend to play with the dialogue a little bit. And Susan Harris said, hopefully just the punctuation. So, okay, you're not getting off to a real good start.

Tony Maietta:
Start there, Laney. So apparently there was a line, and this is according to Elaine, stretch past the hors d'. Oeuvres. And Elaine's take was past the fucking hors d'. Oeuvres. Oh, and yeah, so you don't do that. You don't do that. So she immediately alienated the producers.

Tony Maietta:
But according to Joel Thurm, the casting. One of the casting directors in 2025, he said that they actually did not treat Stritch well because Harris had it in her head that she wanted be Arthur. There was just no way around it. So who knows what really happened? It was probably a combination of both, but it didn't happen with Elaine Stritch. So Susan Harris turned to Rue McClanahan, and this is where I want to bring our special guest in, because she tells this story much better than I do. This is Rue McClanahan talking about convincing Bea Arthur to come and do the pilot of the Golden Girls.

Rue McClanahan:
He heard us read. They heard us read. And the next thing I know, I'm getting called by Susan Harris saying, is there anything you can do to get Bea Arthur to do this show? Because we'd worked together on Maude and I said, oh, I've been wanting to work with her again. I'll come for a call. I called Bea and I said, what is the matter with you? This is the best script you're ever going to read. And she said, ro, I'm not interested in doing Maude and Vivian, meet Suanne Nivett. I said, no, it's the other way around. I'm playing the vamp, Betty's playing the nitwit.

Rue McClanahan:
Oh, now that's very interesting. The next thing I know, the three of us have been called in to read for network and we wowed them.

Tony Maietta:
Wouldn't you rather hear Rue tell it than me?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, anytime.

Tony Maietta:
Anytime. Okay, so we have our four. We have our four main people in place, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
And that really surprised me. I would have, if you'd asked me, I would have sworn not because I've read anything. It just felt this way that Bea Arthur would have been the first one cast. And she was, I would have actually guessed that she was actively involved in creating the show and getting it set. I don't know why I would think.

Tony Maietta:
That she was the last one.

Brad Shreve:
I know.

Tony Maietta:
I believe she signed her contract on a Friday and she was at the read through the following Monday. That's how, that's how fast it was. But the point of this is, is that everybody thought this was the most brilliant pilot script that had come down the pike since the Mary Tyler Moore show. Everybody. Rue McClanahan said, Just looking at the pages, she knew it was going to be a hit. They all loved this pilot script, and it is, it's a brilliant script. And we're going to talk about the pilot. That's one of the things we're talking about.

Tony Maietta:
So should we talk about what we are, what we're going to, how we're going to structure this episode? Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, on this episode, we're going to talk about the pilot and then two episodes that we picked. And then the part two next week will be the other two episodes that we're going to discuss.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, there's just so much to talk about on this show. Yes, it just, it would be a very, very long podcast episode, especially my personal feelings about it, how I feel about this show. So, yeah, we'll talk about the pilot and we will go ahead into two episodes on this, on this particular episode of Going Hollywood. And then there's a natural break. Because, Brad, as you have said many times to me, you don't believe TV shows should run past five seasons and the Golden Girls is a perfect example because by the end of season four, there was getting a lot of stirrings and a lot of rumors about this show was winding down. This thing is not fresh anymore. We need it. So Susan Harris basically brought in a whole new team for seasons five through seven.

Tony Maietta:
And that's what we're gonna cover in our next episode. But for this one, it's the pilot is our very first episode, also known as the Engagement. It was videotaped on April 17, 1985. Aired on September 14, 1985. Written by Susan Harris and directed by Jay Sandrich.

Unknown:
Oh, it is wonderful. Dating in Miami. All the single men under 80 are cocaine smugglers.

Rue McClanahan:
You know, I'd kill to be 20 again.

Unknown:
Oh, I would kill to be 40 again. Oh, you know, I had the shock of my life today. I was in the teacher's lounge talking to a group of girls in their 20s. Oh, they were so pretty. At that age, you don't even have to be pretty. And you're pretty anyway. We were laughing and giggling and having a great time, and I completely forgot that I was older. You know, I just felt like one of the girls.

Unknown:
And we had a wonderful time. And then I got into my car and caught a glimpse of myself and I almost had a heart attack. This old woman was in the mirror. I didn't even recognize her.

Rue McClanahan:
Who was it?

Tony Maietta:
So, Brad, do you want to give a brief rundown of what happens in the pilot?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And you know what's funny is of the episodes that we did, this is the one I remember the least. And it's. I. I kind of. The characters are all there and it's kind of hinted at that they haven't been together that long. It's made clear that it is Blanche's house and the other two are renting. Sophia shows up because Shady Pines burnt down, which is rather funny because later, they always trying to put her in Shady Pines.

Brad Shreve:
But maybe they rebuilt it, I don't know. But in the process.

Tony Maietta:
Rebuilt? It was rebuilt.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, it was okay. So in the process of the whole episode, the anchor to the show was that Blanche had been dating a guy for. I was trying to pick up. Was it only a week?

Tony Maietta:
It had not been long. I think it was longer than a week. But it was. It was not okay because I kept.

Brad Shreve:
Thinking they were saying a week. Anyway, he had proposed to her and she was debating whether or not to accept his proposal.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And that would have caused a big stir in the house, such as what were going to happen to her roommates. And should she marry this guy after such a brief period? The interesting thing is, and I'm probably skipping ahead a little bit, this was the most insecure I've ever seen Blanche. She was afraid that she would never get another man. She would never get another opportunity.

Tony Maietta:
It's interesting. Yeah. The characters pretty much are. This is what's amazing. As we said, out of the gate, the show was going. The characters. There were tweaks later, but the characters were pretty much set. Yes, but what I find really interesting about the pilot and particularly about Blanche, is Blanche's Southern accent is a hell of a lot lighter than it is in future episodes.

Tony Maietta:
Did you notice that?

Brad Shreve:
No, I didn't. I didn't.

Tony Maietta:
Well, here's. There's a reason why.

Brad Shreve:
What's that?

Tony Maietta:
I'm surprised you didn't notice it, because. Yes, because Ruma Clanahan, once she realized she was actually going to play Blanche, she knew exactly who she wanted to base Blanche on. Her Aunt Ina, who is this over the top, flamboyant woman from Oklahoma? Rue McClanahan is from Oklahoma, but she didn't like being from Oklahoma, so she created this flamboyant, over the top Southern dialect, which is what Rue McClanahan came to the pilot doing. And Jay Sandridge said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Southern dialect. And Rue McClanahan was like, what? But her name is Blanche Devereaux. You know, she's more Southern than Blanche dubois. No Southern dialect. He's like, no Southern dialect.

Tony Maietta:
Just talk the way you normally do. So in this episode, Rue McClanahan is basically talking like Rue McClanahan. That's her natural kind of slight Oklahoma accent. But when the show was picked up and Jay Sandwich only directed the pilot, he was only contracted to do the pilot because he was directing the Cosby Show. And Paul Bogart came in to direct the series, and they were rehearsing the first episode of the series, and he said to Rue, where's your Southern accent? Blanche is a Southern belle. She's like, oh, thank God I can do my accent. So that's why she doesn't have an accent as heavy and deep in the pilot as she does in the rest of the series, which is, you know, it's interesting.

Brad Shreve:
I can't believe I didn't catch that.

Tony Maietta:
You will watch it again, and you'll definitely catch it. So there's a lot of things to talk about in the pilot, but I think before we go any further, we have to talk about the Coco in the room. God bless Rip. Coco the cook. Poor Coco.

Brad Shreve:
You know, I watched that pilot and I thought, I'm glad they got rid of him. At least on the pilot, he served no function.

Tony Maietta:
Well, as Brad said earlier, too, Sophia was not intended to be a regular character. She was going to be reoccurring character. But Estelle Getty during rehearsal. Okay, let's go back to Coco, because I want to talk about. So Coco, the character of Coco. In case anybody hasn't seen this, I don't know why you're listening to this, but play Coco is their cook, their housekeeper. The girls have a cook and a housekeeper. The character was named after Susan Harris's dog.

Tony Maietta:
And it's played by actor Charles Levin, who had played a really kind of groundbreaking gay character on Hill Street Blues. It's basically the same character that he played on Hill Street Blues. And Levin said that during the rehearsals, Estelle Getty was being very small and quiet and not really punching anything. You know what I mean? She was not very confident. And then she walked on the stage like the true actress that she was, and boom, she blew the roof off of the soundstage. People went crazy for Sophia. And that's when Coco, unfortunately, saw the writing on the wall, because they realized, first of all, that's too many characters that we can't have storylines for five characters. Too much for a half hour show.

Tony Maietta:
Who slips out of here. And unfortunately, it was Coco. So Charles Levin will go down in history as appearing on the pile of Golden Girls and then disappearing into the abyss. Bye bye, Coco.

Brad Shreve:
So sad. Except I'm not really sad. I'm kind of glad it happened because.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah, there's no need for it. Plus, the producers also said we don't want to have someone working for these girls. We want to see these girls in the kitchen cooking. And. And that's what Sophia ended up doing. That was Sophia's. You know, Sophia was usually the cook, and that's how they all would converse in the kitchen. And to have somebody cooking for them and so serving them, you know, it doesn't really.

Tony Maietta:
It just doesn't. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Brad Shreve:
But I think Coco probably made a hell of a cheesecake.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I bet he did. I bet he did. You know, so in this. What I find interesting about this episode is Dorothy. Bea Arthur is basically playing Maude. You know what I mean? She's just.

Brad Shreve:
She's a softened Maude.

Tony Maietta:
She's slightly softened Maude. You know, she was still. Dorothy is still kind of savage, you know, as the show progressed, Dorothy, the character of Dorothy changed Bea Arthur made her a lot more neurotic and insecure especially. And as her relationship with Sophia deepened and it became such a wonderful treasure trove of comic put downs and interactions, that character really kind of grew and expanded. So by the end of the series, Dorothy is just as neurotic as the rest of them. But not in this pilot. In this pilot, she's basically playing Maude, I think. And Betty White has rose down from the beginning.

Tony Maietta:
It's. She's perfect. Yeah, there's no change. It's incredible to me. That woman was so talented. Incredible.

Brad Shreve:
I would say that she. I noticed that she was a little less naive, it appeared to me, but not only because I'm. I'm sitting there watching it, like for this show, I'm sitting here analyzing it, but I don't think anybody would really notice. She was awesome.

Tony Maietta:
She was. But the real standout of this episode, it was indeed Estelle Getty as Sophia. In fact, she has one line. There were a couple issues they had with the pilot and there's a very funny scene where Blanche's fiance comes in and he charms them, air quotes. And then he leaves. And then Sophia deadpans, the man is a scuzzball. And this studio audience goes crazy. Well, that's because as it was originally taped, Sophia's line was, the man is a douchebag.

Tony Maietta:
And it got this huge reaction from the studio audience. And then standards and practices came down and said, you're not going to say douchebag on network television. So they had to go back and re record it to where she said, the man is a scuzzball. But the audience's reaction is from the douchebag comment. Because they go, really? You're like, oh, that's a funny line. But that audience reaction is not. It's not all that, you know, it's a little out of proportion. Anyway, I also think what's interesting about this pilot is, is that they have to justify Sophia's outspokenness by saying that the stroke destroyed the part of her brain that censors what she says.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
That is just such a lame, lame thing. They left it. That was the only time they talked about that. She talked about her stroke, of course, later on, but never about her being brain damaged to that extent, because that just seems silly. Why couldn't you just be outspoken? Why not?

Brad Shreve:
That was the first I noticed that. I'm sure I did when I watched it in the past. But I'm like, is that. Have they brought that up before? And I really Was pondering it. So I'm glad you cleared up. It was. It was bad.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It's like they had to give her a medical condition for being outspoken, which, you know, is silly. Just let her be outspoken, she said. And that's what they did. For the rest of the issue. She was just outspoken. Yes, she mentioned her stroke from time to time, but she was just outspoken. So.

Tony Maietta:
I really love this episode. I feel like, you know, it really is a great script. It has some great, great jokes in it and it gives you the background of the characters and their relationship. In a nutshell, in 30 minutes. What do you think?

Brad Shreve:
I agree. And the beautiful thing about this is it doesn't feel like a pilot.

Tony Maietta:
No.

Brad Shreve:
At all.

Tony Maietta:
No, it doesn't.

Brad Shreve:
If you stuck this in the middle of the series, you would not realize that this was the first episode.

Tony Maietta:
Well, except that when they go out, they walk out the way to the lanai and they're in Blanche's bedroom.

Brad Shreve:
Or they.

Tony Maietta:
I mean, some things changed on the logistics.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, yes, yes.

Brad Shreve:
Well, Blanche's bedroom seemed to float around, I think, because sometimes it was to the left.

Tony Maietta:
Well, it was usually at the end of the hallway by the end of the series. But for this pilot, it's where the lanai is, and then you enter the lanai a different way. But any. I'm being incredibly nitpicking.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
I think this is. It is a brilliant, brilliant pilot. All shows change, all shows grow. But this show had it pretty damn well established from the very first episode. And you can see why NBC was like, oh, my God, yes. Buy that and make the old lady a central character. Absolutely.

Brad Shreve:
Yep.

Tony Maietta:
Absolutely. So that's. Do we want to say anything more about the pilot episode, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
No, I think we pretty much nailed it. I mean, it's just. It just was really well done. It was a good pilot. It was one of the better pilots. They exist.

Tony Maietta:
So as I. As we said, we are going to talk about an episode each. This was. I don't know about you, Brad, maybe because I have a different history with this show, but I feel like this was even harder than Bewitched trying to pick episodes from this series because there are so many great episodes to talk about, particularly the first year. And what I found was, was that it was not necessarily the entire episode, but it was moments in the episode. It was an epic put down of Dorothy's. Like, you know, when the one I was talking about where Blanche and the younger man, you know, when. When Blanche is dating this Younger man.

Tony Maietta:
And she says to Dorothy, you know, Dirk's a few years younger than I am. And Dorothy says, in what, Blanche? Dog years. I mean, it is like these epic put downs, things like that. The wonderful, the wonderful episode where they all meet, where they say how they all meet at the end of the season. You know, it's how they all come together to live in the house. They're wonderful. But we had to, had to, had to make choices. So Brad is going to be up with his first choice and we're going to go by air dates, not filming dates.

Tony Maietta:
Because your episode, Brad, was actually filmed before mine or videotaped before mine, but mine aired. No, I'm sorry, the reverse. Your episode was actually videotaped after mine, but it aired before mine. So why don't you go with your episode first?

Brad Shreve:
Well, and I want to speak to something that I alluded to earlier when I talked about Matt Baum, and I'm going to bring it up now because you talked about how it was so hard to pick up, pick an episode.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And it was. Here's my, here's the thing that was going through my head. I watch YouTube clips of this show and Maurice has always send me reels from this show and I laugh hysterically when I watch the series. I don't really. And the reason is sitcoms from the 70s and 80s just aren't holding. I couldn't figure it out why. And I was thinking about the Alice episode we talked about. Sitcoms just haven't held up for me.

Brad Shreve:
We've come such a long way in writing and continuity that I actually really struggled. And then, you know, there were a few that came to mind and that's, that's why I struggled. So, yes, this show is hilarious, but unfortunately, it is still an 80s sitcom and it feels very, very much like an 80 sitcom.

Tony Maietta:
Well, you know, it's a very standard structure sitcom. It's videotaped in front of a studio audience, three cameras, plot is linear. You know, what I love about some of the later episodes that we'll talk about in our next episode is they're not always linear. They got a little more adventurous with the timing of some of the episodes and some of the things they did, which I love. But yeah, you're right, it's very standard. It's like Lucy. It's like Mary Tyler Moore. It's like all in the Family.

Tony Maietta:
There's a law, a plot, a through line. That's the way TV was. And we have come differently. We're much different now with Multi layered storytelling and one cameras and people breaking the fourth wall. So, yeah, you got to take it with a grain of salt.

Brad Shreve:
But still, yeah, I. And I. I'm looking at it from a 20, 25 glasses because I used to love this show. And I'm not saying that I don't, but Maurice and I binge watched it either last year or the year before, and we were laughing. And then about halfway through the series, we're like, you know, these women never learned a damn thing. One episode, like Blanche and her gay brother is a really good example. They have this growth at the end of this episode, and then the next episode, it's like it never happened. Each one is like a little capsule of its own and they don't do that anymore.

Brad Shreve:
Thank God.

Tony Maietta:
I agree with you in the early parts of this series. And one of the reasons why I wanted to split this episode of Going Hollywood in two is because I don't think that happens in the second part. In the later seasons. I do think lessons are learned. I do think there's some really touching moments in the later ones where people are actually showing they've grown, they've learned. But anyway, that's for next time. So, Brad, what's up first? What's your first one?

Brad Shreve:
After I have now dragged Golden Girls through the mud, I'm gonna bring up a show that I have an episode that I really loved. And it's season two, episode four, It's a Miserable Life, which is a great take on It's a Wonderful Life. It aired November 1, 1986. Written by Barry Finaro and Mort Lathan Nathan and was directed by Terry Hughes.

Tony Maietta:
Here's my card. How may I be of service to you?

Unknown:
Well, Mr. Pfeiffer.

Brad Shreve:
Pfeiffer, the.

Tony Maietta:
The P is not silent.

Unknown:
Well, Mr. Puffeifer, we're interested in arranging a funeral.

Tony Maietta:
Isn't that lovely? The three of you planning ahead for mother.

Rue McClanahan:
Hey, Pfeiffer, how would you like a punch in your pufface? The funeral is for a neighbor.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, well, my condolences.

Unknown:
Oh, no, there's no need. We didn't like her.

Rue McClanahan:
In fact, the whole neighborhood despised him.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, I see. Well, how did she pass on?

Rue McClanahan:
She killed him.

Tony Maietta:
Rough neighborhood. And can I tell you how excited I was when I found out you picked this one because it's Frieda Claxton. It's one of my favorite episodes. Frieda Klaxton Claxton.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Why don't you tell the people who don't know who Frieda Clackston is what this Episode's about.

Brad Shreve:
Okay, well, Frieda Claxton is a neighbor to the ladies, and the girls are trying to save a tree, but Frieda opposes it. Frida is a nasty woman. In fact, Dorothy says that the Halloween before this, half the children in the neighborhood were dressed up like Frieda Claxton. And there is no redeeming quality this woman whatsoever. And none, none. And they go to court or in front of the city council, I guess, basically to try and get this tree not chopped down. And Frida, it's on.

Tony Maietta:
They petitioned. Yeah, they petitioned to save the tree.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, yeah, they had 60 names on the petition not to. Not to cut the tree down. Frida wants it cut down. She hates trees. She hates people. The trees in her yard. And Rose is so mad, she goes over to her face and tells her she should drop dead. And lo and behold, right then and there, Rose killed her.

Tony Maietta:
If you don't like what we have to say, sit there and shut up. And if you can't, Mrs. Claxton will just drop dead. And she does.

Brad Shreve:
Thud. And that was quite a fall she took.

Tony Maietta:
That was a fall. You know, it's so funny. Like I said, I love this episode. I'm so glad you picked it. This was like a lost episode for me because I remember seeing it when it aired and I couldn't find it anywhere. And then I saw it again and I loved it. The thing I love about this, you know the actress who plays Frida Claxton, her name is Nan Martin. Her name was Nan Martin.

Tony Maietta:
Do you know she was only 59 years old when she played Frieda Claxton?

Brad Shreve:
No, I would have guessed much older. She always played this type of character, didn't she?

Tony Maietta:
Well, she appeared again, actually. She was on Golden Girls again a couple seasons. Seasons later, in the fourth season. And she played Philomena Bosco, who was an old Sicilian friends of Sophia's, who may or may not be Dorothy's biological mother. So she appeared again a completely different character, but again, she was aged up. But yeah, I love this episode. She is such an evil. She is just so funny.

Tony Maietta:
And Rose can't understand. Everybody loves Rose. Rose can't understand why anyone would hate a living thing or. And she says, I hate you. And that's what sets Rose off. It says you just drop dead. And then she does. And of course, Rose goes through all this guilt about she killed Mrs.

Tony Maietta:
Claxton, and of course, it ends with the girls. What happens after Mrs. Claxton dies?

Brad Shreve:
Well, Rose goes on about everybody deserves to be treated like, human, that those weren't her words, but that's basically what she was saying. And so they all agree to chip in and have a funeral for Ms. Claxton, and they're the only ones that show up for the funeral.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
And to me, the funniest moment of the. Of the show was when this other woman happens to show up, says that Frida was her best friend. But she doesn't say Frida was her best friend. She just said she was my best friend. And she gets up there and does this little eulogy, and then they point out to her that she's talking about the wrong person. And when the woman realized that it was Frieda Claxton, she kicks the cats.

Tony Maietta:
It's the best. It's the best. I love it whenever the girls go to a funeral. It happens a lot because, you know, it's the Golden Girls and people are dying, but I love it when they go to a funeral. Did you ever see the one where Rose has to give the eulogy at her aunt's funeral, and the girls and Dorothy and Blanche are talking about what they would say about each other if they ever had to give a eulogy about the other one? And Dorothy's saying all these wonderful things about Blanche, and Dorothy goes, well, what would you say about me, Blanche? If Blanche. First thing she says is, well, I would say, I always felt safe having you in the house. This is what I love about. There's these little gems in almost every episode.

Tony Maietta:
The little gem in this episode for me and why I love it so much is the funeral director. What is the funeral director's name that they go to visit to buy the casket for Frieda Claxton?

Brad Shreve:
Mr. Pfeiffer.

Tony Maietta:
It's not Pfeiffer like Michelle Pfeiffer. The P is not silent. It's Pfeiffer. And, you know, here's a little story. So Bea Arthur was notoriously difficult to break up. She just. She was always very dry, very dry humor, very serious. When I was on.

Tony Maietta:
When I did my episode, very, very nice person, but very dry, very serious, not crazy. I mean, she's Bea Arthur. You kind of get that from her. But occasionally something would hit her funny bone, and she had difficulty stopping laughing. And the Puh. Pfeiffer was one of those things. She could not stop laughing every time she said puh. Pfeiffer, because it became Pfeiffer and per funeral and all these pf sounds, and she just.

Tony Maietta:
It just struck her. It struck her as very funny. I think that's a great story because it is a very funny. The P is not silent.

Brad Shreve:
It is. And it's so random. It's just.

Tony Maietta:
It is. It is. Well, Mr. Pufeifer, you know, you could.

Brad Shreve:
Have had that episode without it, but it just was like the cherry on the top.

Tony Maietta:
It was. Mr. Pfeiffer, we are bereaved on a budget. Did you know this episode is also based on a real event?

Brad Shreve:
No.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, this episode really happened. On the TV show Benson. There was an actor who played a very mean character on Benson. And in the TV episode, the episode of Benson, the character dies like Frieda Claxton. However, the actor who was playing the character really did die during rehearsal. Isn't that crazy?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
That was kind of the very scary, sad inspiration for this. For this very, very funny episode of the Golden Girls.

Brad Shreve:
Wow.

Tony Maietta:
All right, so my episode's up next first, but before I go to my episode, Brad, we've been wanting to talk about our reviews that we got. Thank you, everybody, for taking the time. For those of you who wrote reviews and rated us, thank you so much. That means so much to us, right, Brad?

Brad Shreve:
Yes, it does. And I'm not going to go all the way back to the original reviews. These are only the most recent because we've been really asking folks to please leave a review and rate us as well. And we've gotten some that came in, and we just want to give a shout out to these individuals to say thank you very much. First one was from Senor Sway. I love that name.

Tony Maietta:
That's a great name. And thank you, Senor Sway.

Brad Shreve:
And I won't bore people with the whole reviews, but he said these two are lovers of all things cinema, pure entertainment. And we. We agree, of course. And then the next one was from Keastman, and he found us from the Poseidon Adventure episode. And I'm gonna read this because this, I think, was funny. He says, I was worried that the hosts, Tony and Brad, were going to tear apart and make fun of my favorite movie. Much to my surprise, they treat it with so much reverence, respect, and knowledge and fun that I couldn't wait to listen to other episodes. So we.

Brad Shreve:
We got this guy.

Tony Maietta:
That's nice. That's so nice. Thank you. Thank you.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. And then we have an Australian friend, Carl.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, love that.

Brad Shreve:
And yes. And he points out that there is variance in this show, that we've done everything from two Mel Brooks movies to Rosemary's Baby. We. We do Swing the Pendulum. We do.

Tony Maietta:
We do.

Brad Shreve:
And then we have Nicole Maddox and she just wanted to pop in and say, I love this podcast. Keep up the great storytelling, gentlemen, and we will. And then Dan in Zurich and he. The last sentence, I believe, was, I recommend this podcast to all movie lovers. So thank you to all of you for leaving the reviews. I will say we've had some nice ratings in Canada as well as some ratings in Germany as well. Now I gotta say, my apologies to the rest of the world. If you have rated us and reviewed us, there is a problem.

Brad Shreve:
Apple only lets us. We have to pull up each individual country to find out if there are ratings and review. It doesn't even tell us if there is one. There could be a review from Zimbabwe and we have no idea unless I happen to search and pull up Zimbabwe. So if I've missed you, I apologize. I only went through the. The. The countries that we get the most views from, or I only pick the countries that we get the most listens from.

Brad Shreve:
I. If, if you're watching this, we know what you're saying.

Tony Maietta:
Yes, we get what you're saying. We get what you're saying. Thank you. That's wonderful. Thank you, everybody. We so appreciate that. You know, as I've said before, you know, Brad and I have other jobs on his live, so this is really a labor of love for us and that you took the time to. To rate and review us and leave those very nice things.

Tony Maietta:
Thank you so much. We so appreciate it. Now let's get back to our. More to the storytelling aspect of the show because we're going to go on to my next episode of the Golden Girls. As I said, that was so difficult to pick, but I really had to pick this one because it is a very famous, very iconic episode. And we got to talk about it. The name of the episode is Isn't it Romantic? And it's from season two. It's episode five, number 29 in the series.

Tony Maietta:
It was written by Jeffrey Dutiel, directed by Terry Hughes, who was the primary director at this time, has guest star Lois Nettleton, and it aired on November 8, 1986.

Rue McClanahan:
I'll never understand what Gene doesn't see in the opposite sex. But hey, if that's what makes her happy, that's fine by me.

Unknown:
There's one other thing.

Rue McClanahan:
Jean thinks she's in love with Rose.

Tony Maietta:
Rose? Rose.

Rue McClanahan:
Jean has the hearts for Rose. I don't believe it. I do not believe it.

Unknown:
I was pretty surprised myself.

Rue McClanahan:
Well, I'll bet to think Gene would prefer Rose over me. That's ridiculous. Now you tell me the truth. If you had to pick between me and Rose, who would you pick?

Tony Maietta:
Put yourself together.

Rue McClanahan:
Oh, I'm sorry. Does Rose know?

Unknown:
No.

Rue McClanahan:
Oh, good. I don't think you ought to tell her. After all, she's not as worldly and sophisticated about these things as I am.

Tony Maietta:
Absolutely.

Rue McClanahan:
If she finds out Danny Thomas is a lesbian, it'll break her heart.

Tony Maietta:
Before we talk about this episode, Brad, I had a little question for you, and this is a little tidbit. What other iconic TV show that we have talked about very recently? There's your hint. Did Lois Nettleston guest star on in which she also fell in love with a major character? Just the TV show seen elsewhere. No. You had a shot. Mary Tyler Moore show.

Brad Shreve:
Oh.

Tony Maietta:
Lois played the new stage manager who fell in love with Lou Grant. So in this episode, she's falling in love with Betty White. So she fell in love with both Lou and suanne. I think that's brilliant. I think it's brilliant. So anyway, yes. So this is the famous episode about Dorothy's friend Jean, who is a lesbian. And she.

Tony Maietta:
They don't know if they should tell. She should tell the other girls about it. Sophia says a little lesbian thing. Do you keep it under your hat or not? And they decide not to tell them. Except Jean falls in love with Rose. And this episode. I just want to say a little bit about this episode because I picked it because it's really an iconic episode, but I think I picked it really because it's probably Rue McClanahan's most famous and brilliant scenes ever as Blanche, which is a lot to say because Rue McClanahan has had some stunning, stunning seasons. Blanche.

Tony Maietta:
But I think we'll get to what that scene is in a minute. But I also want to say that this is actually the highest rated Golden Girls episode ever.

Brad Shreve:
Really?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah, it. Well, it tied. It tied with the episode Ladies of the Evening, which is the one with Burt Reynolds at the very end, and was the second episode of the season. So these were the two highest rated shows of Golden Girls ever. It also won some Emmys. It won an Emmy award for outstanding directing of a TV series. That was Terry Hughes. Lois Nettleton was nominated, as was Jeffrey Duteil.

Tony Maietta:
And I really feel that this episode is the reason that Rue McClanahan won the best actress in a comedy that year, because Betty White had won it for the first season. This was Rue's season. And then Bea Arthur won it the following. And Estelle Getty won best supporting the following following. So this really. This was the episode they submitted and how can you not? Because it is the episode with the most iconic line ever.

Brad Shreve:
Lesbian, lesbian.

Tony Maietta:
Isn't Danny Thomas one? Not Lebanese Blanche, lesbian. Because what happens is that the girls decide that they need to tell Blanche. They're giggling in the room. Sophia and Dorothy are giggling in Dorothy's bedroom, talking about the fact that Jean has the hots for Rose. And Sophia says Blanche wants to know what they're laughing about. And she goes, well, for starters, Jean's a lesbian. And she goes, what's so funny about that? I've never known any personally, but isn't Danny Thomas one? And Dorothy goes, not Lebanese Blanche, lesbian. And Blanche says, lesbian, lesbian, lesbian.

Tony Maietta:
And then it occurs to her what a lesbian is. And in Blanche's mind, she just can't understand why someone wouldn't like a man. Man's got so much more to offer. You know what I mean? But that's not. That's not it. That's not the piece, the PS De resistance. Blanche is fine with the fact that she's a lesbian. She's like, hey, whatever makes her happy.

Tony Maietta:
It's fine. Who cares? Who cares? And she goes, that's not all. Jean thinks she's in love with Rose. And Blanche, being Blanche Devereaux is not shocked that she's a lesbian, but she's shocked that the lesbian is not attracted to her, but attracted to Rose. It is the brilliant, brilliant work of Rue McClanahan. I mean, that's what makes it so funny. She doesn't know what a lesbian is. She doesn't care.

Tony Maietta:
She only is concerned with the fact that somebody is more attractive to someone else than she is. And I think that is just the MO. That's character comedy for you, folks. That's not one liners. That is deeply rooted character comedy. And it's what makes this episode so damn funny.

Brad Shreve:
Well, when she says lesbian, the look on her face and the tone in her voice was so perfect. It was great. And yeah, the. The fact that she was so offended that Rose is the one that she had a crush on rather than Blanche was so funny. Now, do you know what TV show somewhat copied this? Years later?

Tony Maietta:
Tell me. Years later, Tell me.

Brad Shreve:
There is an episode of Will and Grace. Of course, you know Woody Harrelson is dating Grace.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And Woody goes with Will to a bar, a gay bar, and this guy hits on Will. And Woody is so offended that the guy assumed that he and Will were not a couple.

Tony Maietta:
That's right. I remember that.

Brad Shreve:
And he would step in and do that. Yeah. So it's very Similar.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. That is kind of a call out. It is kind of a call out. No, but that whole scene with the lesbian and Lebanese is so brilliant. It was one of Rue McClanahan's favorites. I think I might have said that.

Brad Shreve:
Yes.

Tony Maietta:
Her other favorite was another brilliant thing from the last season, from Journey to the center of Attention when she does the Michelle Pfeiffer Fabulous Baker Boys take Off on the piano when she's singing. Another brilliant one. But yeah, it is so well written. And some of the other iconic lines here. This is also this episode where it's raining outside and Blanche says, I do love the rain. So it reminds me my first kiss. And Dorothy says, oh, your first kiss was in the rain? And Blanche says, no, it was in the shower. I mean, it's just.

Tony Maietta:
It's this character comedy. This is all this brilliant, brilliant character.

Brad Shreve:
Comedy that was iconic. She never held back.

Tony Maietta:
She never held back. She never held back. For people who don't know who Lois Nettleton was, she was a very busy TV and film actress. As I said, she played Mary Tyler Moore. She was on a lot of soap, she did a lot of miniseries. And she was told she needed character advice on how exactly to play this character. Because this was a first, ladies and gentlemen. This was actually the first time the Golden Girls had touched on the.

Tony Maietta:
The subject of homosexuality since the pilot, since Coco, since the fancy man. And so this was really important. And this is one of the reasons why this episode is so important, is because this episode got praise when it was on for its sensitive and non sensational portrait of an LGBTQ person. And that is thanks to the director, the writers, and Lois Nettleton, because she plays Jane. Jean. She plays Jean totally, and pardon the pun, straight. There are no embellishments. There are no stereotypical things.

Tony Maietta:
She's just a nice, kind woman. And that is what's so wonderful about this episode, is Jean's another person. She's just another person who falls in love with one of the Golden Girls, end of story.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And there's two things I really liked about this episode. The first one is they stepped away from the cliche sitcom thing because typically on sitcoms, he did it on all the Family and so many other shows is if this had been written by anyone else, Gene would have showed up. Dorothy then would have been shocked to find out all this time that she had been a lesbian and the show would have gone on from there. And that is not where they went. I was. It was a breath of fresh air that Dorothy knew all along that her friend was a lesbian and it was a non issue issue. Is only an issue because so did Sophia.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah, that was the second thing I was gonna bring up. But for Dorothy, it was a non issue. The only issue was how will her friends take it? And basically will they hurt her?

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
Her friend not right that she's ashamed of her. So I thought that was a nice change. And the other thing is, you know, Sophia calling Coco Miss Fancy Pants in the first episode. And she made some jokes about her the lesbian in this show, but when it came right down to it, she just flat out said to Dorothy, you know, if one of my kids were gay, it wouldn't matter. Something of that nature. And I was waiting for the punchline and it didn't happen.

Tony Maietta:
There wasn't.

Brad Shreve:
And I was so happy.

Tony Maietta:
It was wonderful. It's wonderful. The treatment was so respectful and so just matter of fact, yeah, she's a lesbian. That's the way it is, people. Although Sophia does say she'd rather live with a lesbian than a cat.

Brad Shreve:
Yes. Unless the lesbian sheds.

Tony Maietta:
That I don't know. So, yeah, it's a wonderful episode. Highly deserved. All the praise it got. I think it's probably one of the hallmarks of the second season. The second season of Golden Girls was really, I think its first peak. It was wonderful episodes. There are so many more episodes that we can't talk about because we don't have time that go on from this.

Tony Maietta:
There was one of my. Some of my favorite ones, you know, in the third year. Yes. We have no Havanas. That's with Sophia's iconic Blanche put down beat it, you 50 year old mattress, which is one of my favorite. There's a wonderful episode about Alzheimer's. There's that great grab that dough episode with the Arthur in that booth grabbing the money. There are so many episodes that it pains me that we can't talk about all of them.

Tony Maietta:
But I am glad we talked about the ones that we talked about in this episode, Brad. I think they're important.

Brad Shreve:
I agree. I agree.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that's about it for this episode of Golden Girls. Unless you have something else you want to say, Brad, about the show or about the podcast.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, I do have something to say. If you are new to this podcast, welcome. We love having you. Be sure to subscribe or hit follow so that you know when new episodes come out. And if you have been around a while and you're enjoying the show, if you're coming back, we assume you do, please do like the others we mentioned today. And rate and review this podcast.

Tony Maietta:
We would appreciate it. Having these new reviews is just it. It gives me a new lease on life. Makes me feel good. Makes me feel good.

Brad Shreve:
And I do have. I do have one more thing to say, Tony.

Tony Maietta:
Okay, go for it.

Brad Shreve:
Thank you for being a friend.

Tony Maietta:
Aw, isn't that sweet?

Brad Shreve:
Thank you for being your heart is true? You're a pal and a confidant.

Tony Maietta:
Ah, that's nice. Thank you, Brad, for being a podcast co host. You know, But I guess that's all. There's only one thing left to say? But I don't want to be a Conor. Knocking? So let's not say goodbye? Let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve:
No. Let's say goodbye. 

Tony Maietta:
Blow it out your tubing verbals. Goodbye, everybody.