Clip: 0:01

Hi what do you think? Very nice. What's wrong? Why don't you ask him what's wrong? Then maybe you won't have to hear it from Carol Lazenby. Hear what?

Clip: 0:17

Dad, I quit the swim team. What?

Clip: 0:20

Carol thought I knew, Of course. Why wouldn't I? It happened over a month ago. Why?

Clip: 0:24

didn't you tell us, connie? I don't know, I didn't think it mattered. What do you mean?

Clip: 0:27

Why wouldn't it?

Clip: 0:28

matter, of course it matters?

Clip: 0:29

No, that was meant for me, calvin. What was meant for you? It's really important to try to hurt me, isn't it? Don't you have that backwards? Oh, and how do I hurt you? By embarrassing you in. Poor Beth, she has no idea what her son is up to. He lies and she believes every word of it, I didn't lie.

Clip: 0:45

You did.

Clip: 0:45

You lied every time you came into this house at 6.30. If it's starting all over again the lying, the covering up, the disappearing for hours I will not stand for it. I can't stand it. I really can't. Well, don't then Go to Europe, connie no. Connie, the only reason she cares.

Clip: 0:57

The only reason she gives a fuck else knew about it first. Just stop it. No, you tell her to stop it. You never tell her a goddamn thing, and I know why she never came to the hospital. She's busy going to goddamn spain and and goddamn portugal. Why should she care if I'm hung up by the balls out there?

Clip: 1:13

maybe this is how they sit around and talk at the hospital, but we're not at the hospital. You never came to the hospital now you know that she did.

Clip: 1:21

She had the flu and she couldn't come inside, but she came.

Clip: 1:23

Yeah well, she wouldn't have had any flu.

Clip: 1:24

if Buck was in the hospital, she would have come. If Buck was in the hospital, buck never would have been in the hospital. That's enough. That is enough.

Clip: 1:33

I won't do it again. I really won't do it.

Clip: 1:35

What in hell has happened?

Tony Maietta: 1:43

Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve: 1:46

And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta: 1:49

We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve: 1:56

And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta: 2:01

As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood. Happy Mother's May, Brad.

Brad Shreve: 2:09

Mother's May.

Tony Maietta: 2:11

Mother's May.

Brad Shreve: 2:13

You mean Mother's Day?

Tony Maietta: 2:14

No, no, no Mother's May. It's a new holiday here, exclusively on Going Hollywood, because all month we are celebrating mothers.

Brad Shreve: 2:28

I was going to ask mothers, may what? But mothers make movies.

Tony Maietta: 2:35

Mothers, may I? No, it's a whole month. We're doing a whole month listener of mother-related films and in some instances we mean that literally, and in some we mean it ironically, and that's all I'm going to say, but today I think we mean it literally. Brad, for our very first one.

Brad Shreve: 2:52

Yes, we do, and I want to tell you something before we begin talking about this film. Normally I watch these films days in advance. I watch them two or three times and I forgot we were recording today. I thought it was later in the week, so I didn't watch it until last night.

Tony Maietta: 3:08

So you should be fresh.

Brad Shreve: 3:09

Well, I am fresh. But there is a movie that Maurice will not watch. He says it is a great film. We're talking about Seven. He says it's a great film but it's so disturbing he never wants to watch it again Kind of the way I feel about Schindler's List, I understand that.

Brad Shreve: 3:27

Ordinary People is now on there. Oh really, I was so pent up and so shaken by the end of the film. I almost sent you a message to say I don't think I can do it today. Really, oh my God, it was that emotional for me.

Tony Maietta: 3:43

Your reaction was that strong. Yes, wow, we're talking about ordinary people. By the way, we kind of buried the lead there. Today's film from 1980, our very first film for our Mother's May celebration this month is Ordinary People starring Donald Sutherland, timothy hutton, judd hirsch and, yes, the mother, none other than ms mary tyler moore. I'm, I'm really kind of, uh, I'm I kind of love the fact that it was you were so affected by this, brad. That's, that's kind of wonderful, I think. I mean, I'm sorry that you feel like you never have to watch it again. I'm sorry if you're going through drama, but I love the fact that this movie was so affecting I had seen it before but it was so long ago.

Brad Shreve: 4:32

I remembered absolutely nothing. I I don't know. I must have been in a mood where it didn't bother me. Who knows, maybe I was drunk okay but uh, I didn't remember anything at all and uh, so this time I was like so shooken up, I'm like wow.

Tony Maietta: 4:47

Well, I got to tell you my journey with Ordinary People. I watched it I mean, I've seen it off and on throughout the years, of course, and I watched it again in preparation for this a few days ago. But my journey, my experience with Ordinary People goes way back to 1980. Because you know how I feel about Mary Tyler Moore, I mean it's you know, she's just one of my icons, Mary Tyler Moore.

Brad Shreve: 5:11

How could she not be? She's always so bubbly and happy and carefree. You know you're talking about.

Tony Maietta: 5:15

Mary Richards or Laura Petri. You're not talking about Mary Tyler Moore or God knows, beth Jarrett. No, definitely not. You're not talking about Mary Tyler Moore or God knows, beth Jarrett, no. So my mother uh, my real mother, um, knew how I much I love Mary Tyler Moore when this film came out, and so she took me and a friend to see this in the theater because it was rated R. So I was too young. Yes, there was actually a time when I was too young to get into an R-rated movie and I can't tell you it was a bit awkward sitting in the theater watching this R-rated film with her, especially when they started talking about jerking off and I'm like, oh, dear, but mostly it makes me fuck a lot.

Tony Maietta: 6:03

Yes, a lot, but mostly because and I know I'm not alone with this with a lot of gay men, I think my mother reminded me of two actresses.

Tony Maietta: 6:11

She reminded me at times and it's very funny of Carol Burnett and she reminded me of Mary Tyler Moore, more Mary Tyler Moore than anyone else, because you know she had that Jackie Kennedy, laura Petri flip hairstyle in the 60s, like so many women did, and later she had the long Mary Richards, you know, locks, which was actually a wig, and in About the Time of Ordinary People her hair was very kind of much the feathered bouffant that Mary has in this movie.

Tony Maietta: 6:41

So it was a little bit of a meta experience and this movie. So it was a little bit of a meta experience and my mother was nowhere near as extreme as Beth Jarrett, but my mother did have a certain reserved quality and so when I watch Ordinary People I recognize her in Beth Jarrett and vice versa. So I have a lot that I want to say when we talk about the character of Beth Jarrett and Mary Tyler Moore, how she felt about it. So my experience with this film is it can be very emotional for me because it does at times remind me of my own mother, but I also find it especially Mary Tyler Moore gut-wrenching and beautiful at the same time.

Brad Shreve: 7:22

It is extremely gut-wrenching and I'll jump in here because my family doesn't listen. One of the reasons I did find it so difficult is I watched this and I thought, God, I wish my family had been that happy. I come from a household where you talk about nothing.

Tony Maietta: 7:41

I wish my family had been that rich.

Brad Shreve: 7:43

Well, yeah, they certainly as far as money goes. They were not ordinary people.

Tony Maietta: 7:49

Well, I was going to say that now the title Ordinary People is not ironic. It looks ironic now, but when it was written it was not meant as an ironic comment. Robert Redford's idea was these were ordinary people and I want to say, despite the reputation it has now it's yeah, these lifestyles are far from ordinary. I mean, we have incredibly affluent people living in this gorgeous house in this wonderful North Shore Chicago neighborhood. It's maybe we should call it aspirational.

Brad Shreve: 8:22

No, anyway, I'm not going to talk about I'm going to read you a uh review by a critic that didn't like this movie, and I'm only going to do this because the critics love this movie, right, but in the at the time, at the time, and as I was looking at the reviews, a couple of them that were bad, one pumped, jumped out at me and I normally ignore them, but it was funny. So pauline kale, I think that's how you pronounce her last name yes it is yes, with the new yorker.

Brad Shreve: 8:48

She said the movie is just as sanitized as the fantasy of upper middle class life it sets out to expose and it's just as empty and orderly, to kind of put a pin on what you were just talking about you know know what?

Tony Maietta: 9:04

Pauline the pill kale, I can't. I would do three podcasts on Pauline Kael. I can't. Pauline Kael, very problematic woman, but anyway, sometimes she but she was also very funny and very biting. But yeah, I mean, no, those are valid criticisms of the time, but you were right in that. You know, as I don't think I'm giving any spoiler alerts here, we should probably do spoiler alert. This film won the Oscar in 1980 for Best Picture and it beat a little film called and we'll beat four other films but it beat a little film called Raging Bull and it was incredibly popular at the time. But its reputation over the years has been become a bit tarnished because it beat Raging Bull, because Raging Bull has become kind of mythic in film history. But I got to tell you, when I watched this film again I was like no, I'm glad it won Best Picture. I think it absolutely deserved all of the Oscar nominations and the Oscars that it won and it had six nominations and won four of thosecars that it won.

Brad Shreve: 10:05

And let's say that it had six nominations and won four of those, which we can get into now or we'll get into it later I will say I have never seen raging bull and there's a reason why I so dislike boxing as a sport. I I know it's considered one of the classics of classics and I've just never had desire to see it but a movie which gained in reputation over the years.

Tony Maietta: 10:26

That's the thing. Ordinary People at the time was the front runner of everything, and as time went on and Raging Bull kind of came to the forefront and De Niro's performance became more and more mythic, and so did the film and the things that Scorsese did in the film. This is a completely different film.

Brad Shreve: 10:43

I don't know how you can compare them.

Tony Maietta: 10:44

Go ahead that Scorsese did in the film. This is a completely different film. I don't know how you can compare them, you know, and Go ahead, do the critics today feel less towards this film as they did originally. Yes, I have an idea why.

Brad Shreve: 10:54

As I'm watching it and I'm thinking this is a good movie, but because it was made in the 80s, I felt like I was watching an adult after-school special. Oh my God 80s flashbacks.

Tony Maietta: 11:05

Could you die? Wedge haircuts. I feel sorry for people who don't know what a Dorothy Hamill wedge haircut is.

Tony Maietta: 11:14

Both of my sisters had Dorothy Hamill haircut and I had one that was pretty damn close. I'll tell you, right now I'm watching this. I'm thinking, oh my God, those above-the the thigh gym shorts and clogs and cable knit sweaters that Judd Hirsch is always in and, oh my God, people jogging in jogging suits. Jogging suits yes, they were actually wearing the jogging suits to jog in with the towel around their neck. Yes, this movie is a huge, huge 80s flashback. So if you weren't alive during the 80s and you want a little taste of the 80s, definitely watch this movie.

Tony Maietta: 11:51

But you know you talked about the Oscar nominations and I want to say that at the time it was a big heartbreak for me because Mary Tyler Moore was nominated as Best Actress and she did lose to sissy spacex. Now it is really hard for me to argue with sissy spacex win, because sissy spacex is fucking brilliant in coal miner's daughter. She is loretta lynn. There's just. No, you can't say I can't separate them. But you know I'm also sad for mary, but mary, for to her credit, said she felt completely vindicated just to be nominated and besides she has how many Emmys to console her. So I don't think it was actually a win for Mary Tyler Moore just to be nominated at this point in her career, which we can get into later. She probably had no more room in her cabinet.

Brad Shreve: 12:40

Well exactly. I mean, those Emmys are big you know, and I would wrestle anybody that tried to tell me that Sissy Spacek shouldn't have won that year- yeah, I mean, it was just, it was a, it was a brilliant, brilliant performance.

Tony Maietta: 12:51

So anyway, yeah. So I think we need to talk a little bit about the background of Ordinary People and kind of put it in context of the time of the 80s and how this, how this whole thing came about.

Brad Shreve: 13:04

Well, let's talk about what the movie is about first.

Tony Maietta: 13:07

All right, Well, I'm going to let you do that then.

Brad Shreve: 13:08

It's a very quick and easy one to do Quick synopsis Brad, very quick synopsis.

Brad Shreve: 13:12

The oldest son of an ordinary family air quotes in the Chicago suburbs drowns in a boating accident and 18 months later, after the second son has been home for nine months after attempting to kill himself, each of the remaining family members the father, the mother and the son, conrad, conrad, thank you. I can only remember Connie Works. Each family copes in their own way, and none of them in a good way, and the father is the closest, but he even is a little too, for lack of a better word. Patronizing is a word that's coming to mind, but not really. But we see Conrad's perspective mostly from the psychiatric appointments he goes to not entirely but mostly and the parents as they try to return to normal life.

Tony Maietta: 13:58

Do you know those psychiatric appointments with Judd Hirsch, with the character of the doctor Berger who is played by Judd Hirsch, do you know? Those were all shot at once, one after the other after the other, because Judd Hirsch could only get like eight days off from taxi, so they had to film them, one after the other after the other, which, I mean, look, it's not unusual in a movie. Movies are usually shot out of sequence. It's very rare that a movie is shot in sequential order, but I always think that's like God. This is why acting is such an emotionally challenging job, because these actors have to keep this heightened emotion all the time. So it's very taxing. So, yeah, one taxing, ha ha pun. So, one after the other after the other, because Judd Hirsch had to get back to taxi.

Brad Shreve: 14:44

That might have been to the benefit of the film, though, because those were so emotional and so exhausting it was, and both characters, especially Timothy Hutton, were so worn down. Maybe that helped those scenes.

Tony Maietta: 14:56

I think so, I think so, I really do, I really do. You know, things happen for a reason in films. So I think that's true. But this movie, ordinary People, was based on the book Judith Guest's first novel, and it began as a short story Ordinary People. It was published in 1976. And Judith Guest is the great-grandniece of poet Edgar Guest. So for our erudite listeners out there, that was for you. And Robert Redford read the book when it was in galleys and all the way back to 1975, redford had told his good friend and friend of the pod, sidney Pollack we talked about in Tootsie, that he wanted to direct. And everyone knew that he would eventually end up directing because Redford thought like a director, he was a painter after all. So he began his life as he wanted to be a painter before he became an actor.

Brad Shreve: 15:51

And who was going to tell Redford? No, I was going to tell about anything.

Tony Maietta: 15:55

I wouldn't tell Robert Redford no about anything. And Redford, looking back, he said he can see that he collected little bits and pieces of life's observations as he was growing up. You know a line from a book here or a character in conversation there, a piece of music, pachelbel Canon, which is used throughout Ordinary People, which hadn't been heard from in years, and then it became ubiquitous after this movie came out. I remember my sister had an album of Pachelbel canon. It's like wow. So he was ready. He was primed when he got this film, when he got this book, and he knew he wanted it to be his first movie. So he contacted his friend Alvin Sargent, who was a very well-known, very well-respected screenwriter.

Brad Shreve: 16:44

He had a whole list of films. I was impressed.

Tony Maietta: 16:47

I can't remember off the top of my head and according to Alvin Sargent, he worked on it. Well, redford said that Sargent worked on the screenplay for about a year and he was having a real trouble relating to the characters. So Redford took him to some parties in the North Shore of Chicago where Ordinary People is set you know this incredible neighborhood of incredible affluence and he said to him, he took him to a couple parties and he said look how seamless these people, look how seamless their facade is. You have to go past it. You have to go to the subtext. You have to go to the subtext. And one of my favorite scenes in Ordinary People is that party scene, because people are just talking nonsense to each other, ridiculous things, ridiculous things to each other that make absolutely no sense. And one partygoer says to Donald Sutherland's character I'm not talking to you. And then he turns and walks away and you're like what the hell was that?

Brad Shreve: 17:44

Just stupid, stupid things. At first I was like what was his direct decision to do this? And then it was well. Actually, maurice said this is rather mundane and I'm like now I get it.

Tony Maietta: 17:56

It's supposed to be, it's important, yeah, but I want to talk more about the party sequence, particularly Mary Tyler Moore and the party sequence, because I think it's a brilliant scene of hers. So he got the idea, the screenplay was done and every studio all these studios that Redford had made millions upon millions of dollars for as an actor turned him down, except Paramount. And Paramount said we'll do it for you, but we want you to star in it. And Redford said he absolutely refused. He, I laid down the law. He said I am not acting in this, I am directing it, and the only way they would do it is if they paid him scale. So he did. So he made scale as a director.

Brad Shreve: 18:34

Thirty thousand dollars to direct this film, wow so yeah so, but he knew he believed in it he believed in it, did he get a percentage?

Tony Maietta: 18:41

I hope well. Later he got three hundred thousand dollars, so okay later the studio needed it.

Clip: 18:47

But you know, it's always nice.

Tony Maietta: 18:48

Later the studio was like okay, here's three hundred thousand you know, okay, fine um, so yeah. So he had the screenplay done and he knew he wanted to work on this and he started to think about people that he wanted to cast. And you know who? The first choice to play conrad i'm'm not Conrad. Calvin the father, the Donald Sutherland part Calvin. Do you know who the first choice was?

Brad Shreve: 19:10

No, I know Conrad, but I can't think of Calvin.

Tony Maietta: 19:13

Well, it was interesting because Redford had a cast in mind, all set to go For Calvin, he wanted Gene Hackman. For Beth, he wanted Mary Tyler Moore from day one, and we'll talk about that. And for the Doctor, he wanted Richard Dreyfuss, which would have been a really good cast. I think Gene Hackman would have been a beautiful cast, calvin, but they couldn't come to terms with money.

Brad Shreve: 19:37

Yeah, it's interesting. I do remember that now that you mention it. I did some research on some background on this film and I kept seeing over and over again that Gene Hackman couldn't do it because he was tied up doing Superman 2. And then I found an interview he did in 85, where he said it all came down to the money money and he regretted the decision.

Tony Maietta: 20:01

They always regret the decision when it comes to money. They always regret it. He wanted Hackman, but Michael Eisner was running Paramount at this time and he had his own suggestions, and one of the people that he suggested for Beth was Lee Remick, and then Sidney Pollack suggested Jane Fonda. So everybody always had an opinion about who he wanted to play this part. But when it came to the part of Beth, the mother Redford was pretty adamant.

Tony Maietta: 20:28

And the reason is is because he and Mary Tyler Moore didn't know each other. They knew each other in the Hollywood sense. They knew each other, but they didn't know each other personally. But they were neighbors in Malibu and they would often pass each other on the sand and Mary Tyler Moore would never speak to him, she would just look up and smile or nod her head and would never engage. And then there were other times where Redford said he would see her walking along the shore, on the beach, you know, apparently deep in thought. And he said and that's when I began to wonder about the dark side of Mary Tyler Moore, because Mary Tyler Moore at this time of course, as we all know, had just finished her seven year, her iconic seven year run on the Mary Tyler Moore show. She was Mary Richards and before that she was Laura Petri, so she was America's sweetheart. Here's another America's sweetheart we've got here, but she truly owned that.

Tony Maietta: 21:30

But I think it's so genius that Redford saw something in her untapped. This is what a good director does. He sees something in her untapped and he's like I wonder what the dark side of Mary Tyler Moore is like. I think that's a brilliant.

Tony Maietta: 21:42

It was a brilliant casting choice and he went to the mat for Mary Tyler Moore. Mary Tyler Moore said that he called her in and he said they talked during the interview and he confessed to her that you know, he was really intrigued casting her and she was very excited about that opportunity. But he was concerned that her image as Mary Richards might destroy her believability every single actor in Hollywood and he finally was convinced that it should be back to his first choice, mary Tyler Moore. And that's because, see, mary Tyler Moore was at a crossroads in her career.

Tony Maietta: 22:26

At this point she said herself my comedy years were over, her marriage to Grant Tinker was ending, her two variety show follow-ups to the Mary Tyler Moore show were not successful. And she said I was in a state of forced reevaluation. So this felt like the next step for her, the perfect step. But again they took some convincing and about this time Mary's agent suggested to a Broadway producer, manny Eisenberg that Mary replaced Tom Conti in a production of whose life is it anyway? On Broadway, which is a play about a character who is facing their own mortality. They've been in a severe accident and it's about euthanasia, basically.

Brad Shreve: 23:06

Great movie with Richard Dreyfuss yeah.

Tony Maietta: 23:09

So here's the thing. And it was played by Tom Conti. So Mary went in as a female character, which was a brilliant casting coup. And it also showed Paramount and proved Robert Redford's point that, hey, if Eisenberg is going to believe that Mary Tyler Moore could handle a dramatic role on Broadway, then she could do Ordinary People. So that's what happened. That's what happened. It convinced Paramount, it convinced Redford that she was right for the part. But she had to film Ordinary People before she even went to Broadway to do this play. So I think that's kind of fascinating that Mary Tyler Moore had to prove that she could play this part.

Brad Shreve: 23:45

And that seems more common. Now, what do you?

Tony Maietta: 23:47

mean.

Brad Shreve: 23:47

For an actor to go from comedy to drama and vice versa. Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean it was done before.

Tony Maietta: 23:55

but comedy the famous line dying is easy, comedy is hard. If somebody can do comedy, pretty damn good chance they can do drama. I mean it's the other way around Very frequently. I mean you know how much I love Betty Davis, but, ooh, sometimes when Betty Davis did a comedy you're just like oh, betty, please go back to Little Foxes.

Brad Shreve: 24:18

You know, yeah, both Jim Carrey, who I do not like his comedy, but both Jim Carrey and Robin Williams, I like both of them better in dramas.

Tony Maietta: 24:27

Brilliant.

Brad Shreve: 24:28

As much as I love Robin Williams, both as a comedian and as a dramatic actor, I really appreciate his dramas.

Tony Maietta: 24:34

Yeah, no, it's true, it's true. If you have the chops to do comedy and do comedy well and nobody did comedy better than Mary Tyler Moore then chances are you can do drama. Same thing with Lucille Ball, I mean, it's the same thing, they're actresses, they can do anything. So anyway, the whole Gene Hackman situation. Redford didn't know what he was going to do and he actually turned to Donald Sutherland to play the therapist, to play the part of Dr Berger, and Sutherland came in to read and he told Redford that he really wanted to play Calvin the father. And Redford said he was so impressed with his, with his honesty and his passion for the role that he's like okay, done Cast, pretty easy.

Brad Shreve: 25:21

One thing I was disappointed in is, of the four main leads, donald Sutherland was the only one not nominated for an Oscar. I don't know who else was nominated that year. So I can't judge whether he was better or worse. But I thought he was outstanding in this role.

Tony Maietta: 25:34

Well, yeah, but I mean you have De Niro in Raging Bull. I mean, how do you argue with that performance? I think Robert Duvall was nominated, I think that year John Hurt. You know it was also the year of the Elephant man we talked about during Mel Brooks' episode, which also nominated for Best Picture. Yeah, I think also was it Peter O'Toole and Jack Lemmon um. Yeah, I think also was it peter o'toole, um, and jack lemon yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that was it.

Tony Maietta: 26:01

That was it, because peter o'toole has never won an oscar and this was one of the many times he was nominated. So, yeah, it's unfortunate that he was the only one of the main cast who wasn't nominated, and he should have been. But who are you going to knock off?

Clip: 26:13

there.

Tony Maietta: 26:14

You know, I don't I don't want to knock off any of those people. They, they were all pretty brilliant. I mean the Elephant man.

Brad Shreve: 26:19

Wow, yeah, that's quite the royalty there. Yeah, it really was.

Tony Maietta: 26:22

But he's wonderful. It was an unusual role for Sutherland. We think of Sutherland from Clute, we think of Sutherland from MASH and this was, I mean, this kind of. You can see the Gene Hackman-esque qualities of Sutherland in this role and I think he's absolutely wonderful in it.

Brad Shreve: 26:43

And I don't know if you caught it. There was something meta in this film because, as Judd Hirsch is talking to Conrad Timothy Hutton, he says you look like one of the body snatchers.

Tony Maietta: 26:57

I didn't catch that when it happened, but yeah you're absolutely right, that does kind of matter.

Tony Maietta: 27:02

And that leads us to nice segue there, brad to Timothy Hutton, who did win an Oscar for this role as Best Supporting Actor. And Redford said that Conrad, not surprisingly, was the hardest role to cast because you need a teenage-ish actor to play a very, very heavy, dramatic, difficult, complex role. And I guess there was a big search. They searched high and low. They searched in theater repertories in LA, in New York, in St Louis, no-transcript of his father. So his emotions were right there, you know. I mean they're right there.

Brad Shreve: 28:15

Now he did say in an interview he did not use that, but that's impossible to shake that off. You can't not, yeah, you can't not, it may not have been a conscious thing, but it was there.

Tony Maietta: 28:22

No, any good actor is going to use it. You use it, subconsciously perhaps, but yeah, you use it, use it. But Redford's such a genius in this and he does this, and we've talked about William Wyler did this. Sidney Pollack did this. He told the cast and crew during filming to leave Timothy alone. Leave him alone. You can say hello to him in the morning, you can be pleasant to him. Don't engage him. And Timothy started to get a complex. Well, what is going on with Conrad? Conrad is feeling alienated. Conrad is feeling alienated. Conrad is feeling unseen.

Tony Maietta: 28:59

That's how good directors do it, you know. You may think, oh, that was kind of cruel, but it's no crueler than loading a suitcase full of books and giving them to Olivia Haviland and saying go up the stairs for the 1900th time. That's what good directors do, you know. So he put his actor in the right emotional state, adding to the emotional state he was already in. And Redford said he felt like Hutton was pretty much an open wound during this whole filming, which, if you watch it, you can see it. That's what's so wonderful about Timothy Hutton in this part, the I know what I wanted to say. So he went to the first audition and elizabeth mcgovern was already cast um as janine conrad's uh school friend and he said that when mcgovern and hutton were together in the reading he said it just blew him away. He said there was no question, these were the right two people for this part.

Tony Maietta: 29:54

But I have to ask because this was my reaction seeing this again after many years Elizabeth McGovern, what the hell happened to her? She is wonderful in this, speaking of Invasion, of the Body Snatchers who came and took Elizabeth McGovern's soul, because she ain't nothing like this on Downton Abbey. She's a walking ghost in Downton Abbey. She's so wonderful in this, she's so alive, she's so funny, she's so quirky. I just want to know what happened to her. What happened to her?

Brad Shreve: 30:28

I think she's having a baby is what happened to her. You think so? Well, you know I like that film because there's aspects of it that I think are wonderful, but it's actually not a very good film.

Tony Maietta: 30:37

Oh, you mean the film. She's having a baby. I'm like what.

Brad Shreve: 30:40

She had a baby.

Tony Maietta: 30:41

What are you talking about?

Brad Shreve: 30:42

Okay, yeah, maybe that's what happened to her. I don't know.

Tony Maietta: 30:46

I was just like I was doing double and triple takes. I was like wait because her from that.

Brad Shreve: 31:00

But I thought what the hell happened? You were a wonderful actress not so much anymore, but you know who was what I wanted to see more of dinah manoff, she was great.

Tony Maietta: 31:04

I was gonna say, I was gonna say, you know who was wonderful is dinah manoff yeah, I hate that she left acting, but um well, you know, daughter of lee grant, you know, so pretty damn good gene pool there, you know, and dinah manoff was so.

Tony Maietta: 31:19

Oh my God, it is a shame she left because she was so wonderful in this. She was wonderful in Grease, as Marty Maraschino Remember her in Grease she was so great, she was hysterical in Empty Nest and you know I'm not huge in Empty Nest. She was great on Soap even I remember there she was wonderful on soap. So yeah, she's wonderful in this. She's great. This entire cast is wonderful. I think that this is one of the most perfectly cast films. Not I don't know if ever.

Brad Shreve: 31:44

I don't want to make that kind of hyperbolic statement, but you can't deny that, despite the the problems that he may have had in initial casting, he got the right cast for this yeah, and when I saw dinah manoff's uh scene I knew, right away from her phony everything's that she was going to end up dying and I kept saying, oh, I hope she comes back before that happens. And she never did. I was so disappointed Because she was wonderful to watch.

Tony Maietta: 32:09

Yeah, she did so well. One scene, one scene and she's just let's have a good Christmas Conrad.

Tony Maietta: 32:16

Let's have the best Christmas it's just like, oh my God, and we know what happens. I think one of the brilliant things about this film and the passage of time, and in Timothy Hutton in particular. You see it because when this movie starts he looks like someone who just came out of I don't want to call the mental institution, but he was. He was, you know, after he tries to commit suicide he is taken away to a hospital and he comes out and you look at him and his hair is really short and he's got those dark circles on his eyes and he's so gaunt and he's so jumpy and edgy and nervous. And then as he slowly, as the movie progresses and he slowly begins healthier and healthier, till the end of the movie he looks great. You know what I mean. Looks like a typical teenager who's just on, you know, just coming home from school. It's it's. It's a really slow progression.

Tony Maietta: 33:03

But you see, the, the emotional changes that Conrad goes through through working with the doctor um are are manifested in his physical change. He looks, he looks bigger, he looks heftier. I mean, he's just, it's wonderful's wonderful, it's it's he's a wonderful performance. It absolutely deserved his oscar for this performance. So this a lot of the film was filmed. A lot of the movie was filmed on location in lake forest, illinois, because those are, you can't fake those incredible chicago suburbs yeah and I guess redford.

Tony Maietta: 33:34

You know this was redford's first film, so pretty amazing that you win. Win an Oscar for directing your first film.

Brad Shreve: 33:42

And the film being an Oscar winner as well.

Tony Maietta: 33:44

Yeah, and the film being an Oscar winner, I mean and Redford was the first.

Tony Maietta: 33:47

After this, warren Beatty went on to win the Oscar for Reds and then Clint Eastwood. So I mean, yeah, so Redford was probably the very first movie star to then turn to. It never won an Oscar for an actor as an actor, but then we wouldn't want for directing Um and Redford. I guess Redford approaches actors like he was approached, like Mike Nichols worked with him. You know, he stayed very close to the actor. He's just an actor's director, you know. And um Sutherland said that he totally handed his trust to the actors. He gave him the space they needed to find the role.

Tony Maietta: 34:22

And Mary Tyler Moore said that he was very kind to her and he gave her time to investigate the role. He restricted nothing, he just kept an eye on her. Mary Richards gestures that was the only thing he watched. He was like, oh no, that's a Mary Richards gesture. Oh, don't slap your thigh, that's what Mary Richards would do. So it's kind of interesting. He kept an eye on that and kept her in check. And I'm sorry, but when I watch her there is no resemblance to Mary Richards here in this performance.

Tony Maietta: 34:55

I mean, it's just no, not whatsoever, it's just amazing. So I'd like to talk about a couple scenes I want to speak on.

Brad Shreve: 35:00

Timothy Hutton first. Oh, please do, please do, because when it started Maurice and I had different reactions, well, very similar. The first thing Maurice said was, oh, this is a movie about him on drugs, and of course I didn't correct him, I let him figure it out on his own. But he looked so bad, yeah, yeah, so bad, yeah, yeah. My first reaction was oh, my goodness, timothy hutton really grew into his looks. But then at the end of the film I'm like, oh no, that's timothy hutton yeah, you know very young hot man.

Tony Maietta: 35:27

So yeah, it's true. No, it was a real physical change in an emotional change, and it really was, and he won the oscar. He won the oscar, um. So I love. I love to talk about some of these scenes. I love, as we talked about just a bit earlier, the party scene, because what I love about that scene is not only the ridiculous dialogue, which means nothing but says everything underneath, is how loose and engaged Beth is, if you notice when Beth is in a social setting. Why? Because it's all surfacy when she's in a social setting she is the warmest, the most charming.

Tony Maietta: 36:03

Mary Tyler Moore is smiling and laughing. Because it's all show, because she doesn't have to go deep. You know, she's one of these people. She can do that easily because it's not engaging with someone on a profound level. That's the problem with someone on a profound level. That's the problem. So she's very good at that. She's always very good in public. She's always very good in these social settings. But in that party scene she's wonderful until she overhears Calvin talking with a friend of theirs about Conrad and his doctor and it immediately changes because it suddenly just got real. Yep.

Brad Shreve: 36:37

Yeah.

Tony Maietta: 36:37

And she can't deal with it.

Brad Shreve: 36:39

Yeah, and she handled that so well because she didn't get angry, she didn't act angry or upset, but you could see the tension and the way she walked over and talk. Just like what happened in real life, honey.

Tony Maietta: 36:51

You know kind of steer the direction and then we're going to talk about this later.

Brad Shreve: 36:55

It was really well done.

Tony Maietta: 36:56

It was very real and then you know they're in the car and it's Iceland really well done it was very real. And then you know they're in the car and it's Iceland. There is, I mean, on the drive there, they're warm and they're funny, they're talking about going to a movie instead of the party and they're laughing. And then I drive back and apparently Calvin's had a couple of martinis. So I'm like, well, why is he driving?

Brad Shreve: 37:13

But you know, hey, it was the eighties. Yes, it was the eighties. Iceland, iceland, and I know Beth Jarrett. Yeah, now, my dad was like that it was all about appearances, but nothing to this degree. But I know some Beth Jarrett's who doesn't matter what's happening in the world.

Tony Maietta: 37:27

You act like everything's wonderful well, I mean, that's the thing, and when you, when you think about um, should we talk about Mary Tyler Moore and the character Beth? Do you think um?

Brad Shreve: 37:37

sure, let's go there, we're already there I think that's that's probably a good time.

Tony Maietta: 37:39

So so mary tyler moore hated when people called beth come up to her and say she was such a bitch. And mary tyler moore said she was not a bitch, she was a victim. She was taught by her mother and you kind of get a glimpse of this in the movie. You see, just enough to know, just enough to know that it comes from mother to daughter. She was taught to do the right thing and that's what she responded to to do. She had to do the right thing.

Tony Maietta: 38:06

And I, thinking about this character of Beth and, as I said, and how she reminds me of my own mother in certain ways. You know, it's like it's the thing I feel about. It is sometimes people who act so cold are the exact opposite. They're just so sensitive that they can't deal with the difficulties of life. And that's how I feel about Beth. Beth is so sensitive, she's so wounded. She allowed herself to open up to one person and that was her son, Buck. And what happened to Buck? Buck died. So she's not going to open herself up again, she's not going to allow herself to be hurt that deeply.

Tony Maietta: 38:48

And, Mary, you know, obviously Mary Tyler Moore had some of her own issues with her own son, which we'll talk about in a bit. You know, very tragic, We'll talk about in a bit, you know, very tragic. But she also said that this role of Beth reminded her very much of her own family. She said particularly her father. Her father was very unaccessible, like Beth. He was unable to access his emotions and express his love to his daughter. You know, even after her success I remember her telling stories about he would come to the taping of the Mary Tyler Moore show and he would just sit there stone-faced.

Tony Maietta: 39:22

You're like, your daughter is Mary Tyler Moore. For Christ's sake, she turns the world on with a smile and you're just totally unemotional. So I think she had such a great handle on that character, because that's the way those people are. They're so brittle they'll break. You know, they can't allow themselves. They can't allow the facade to go down, because when they have, they've been devastated.

Brad Shreve: 39:46

Yeah, I could see that clearly. I did have a very hard time being sympathetic towards her. Maurice was totally sympathetic. He's like, he got it. He's like, like you said, she's a victim. She is hurting, probably more than the rest of them, and I saw all of that. You know, it was very clear to me the pain she was in and how she was raised and everything. And despite all that, I still just couldn't stand the woman.

Tony Maietta: 40:11

Well, I just wouldn't slap her across the face.

Tony Maietta: 40:13

She did a great job. I mean, she did, she did, she did beautifully. You know what the key is, the key to that character are those flashback scenes, those scenes where she's there's that one scene where she's got her long hair and she's remembering a scene with Bucky and Conrad and she's almost, it's almost incestual the way she looks at Buck, the way she let. I mean she's flirtatious with her son, she's looking at him, you know, like she'd look at a lover, and that tells you, right there, this woman opened up for one person and I believe that you know Calvin says that to her. You know, all of the best of you went with Buck. You gave love to one person. And I love those flashback scenes because you kind of see, I love seeing how she was with buck and you realize that she did, she held. That boy was her pride, her heart, and that heart was shattered when he was killed so how's she gonna react?

Brad Shreve: 41:09

I do have to say, though, they did. I agree it was the. The one with buck was really well done when they showed the dance scene where the flashback with her and her husband yeah they put the ponytail on her, which was kind of funny, but you know they're trying to make her look young they did absolutely nothing to make donald southern look, they didn't even change his hairstyle I'm like what now she's with an old man?

Tony Maietta: 41:31

she married her more. Bet always had a different hairstyle for every flashback. She had the long hair and then she kind of had a feathered thing when conrad tried to kill himself, and then she had the ponytail, but the way she carried herself and her look and everything she clearly she did a good job of looking young oh, she did. She did you know, in that that scene, the camera scene where they're trying to take the picture which is just like the tensest scene.

Brad Shreve: 41:55

Oh my god I love that scene that I was literally sick to my stomach.

Tony Maietta: 42:00

It is so tense. What's happening is that the family is visiting Beth's parents and they're trying to take a family photo and the father Beth's father can't work the camera. I'm like, how difficult is it. Is this your first time working a camera? Dude? Come on, it was a new camera to him, who knows?

Tony Maietta: 42:19

I guess, so, but the tension between Beth and Conrad. And then they want to get a picture of the three of them. And then, uh, donald Sutherland's character, calvin, says I want to get a picture of Beth and Conrad. And they look at each other and let's not do this. No, no, not, not a good idea, no-transcript. Hear a plate drop and she's broken a plate and she's sitting on it. She's kneeling on the floor and her mother comes in and Beth says it's a clean break. And that's her life summed up in that line If something is going to break, it has to be a clean break so it can be saved. What happened with Bucky was not a clean break and that's why she can't deal with it. And she continually says in the rest of that scene with her mother I think this can be saved.

Brad Shreve: 43:31

I think this can be saved.

Tony Maietta: 43:32

And that's the key to that character. She has to have a clean break. She can't deal with something if it's a mess, and that's what her life has become is a mess.

Brad Shreve: 43:40

There were a lot of painful scenes in this film, and that was one that it was physically painful to me. I just was. You could see that sheet of ice between her and her son.

Tony Maietta: 43:51

Yeah.

Brad Shreve: 43:52

And I, just I wanted to take him and hold him.

Tony Maietta: 43:56

I wanted to take her and hold her. That scene in the they both needed a hug yeah her.

Brad Shreve: 44:00

That scene in the. They both needed a hug yeah.

Tony Maietta: 44:02

Well, that scene in the garden, another one of those scenes she's trying she was trying.

Tony Maietta: 44:08

She sees him sitting out there and she's trying to just have some kind of connection with him and he has to go and bring up Buck and she just can't take it and she immediately shuts down, immediately shuts down, and they start talking down. Immediately shuts down and gives up and they start talking over each other. And then he does the dog barks and she's just like put that sweater on, I'm out of here, you're a nut job. I mean, she just she can't deal.

Brad Shreve: 44:31

She can't deal. And and the scene in the garage, I felt so sad for the father just finally wanting to talk about it and he just couldn't break through that.

Tony Maietta: 44:46

Yeah, it's, it's just so it's. It's a heartbreaking film. And you know, at the end, when, uh, calvin says I don't think I love you anymore, you know, and she just looks at him and silently turns around and walks up the stairs and then goes to that closet and brings that suitcase down and then for a second it hits her and she almost loses it, but she doesn't. It is heartbreaking, it's just. It's heartbreaking because you wonder how's this woman going to continue?

Brad Shreve: 45:14

Yeah.

Tony Maietta: 45:14

You know she's, she's now. She's lost her husband and you know both of her sons.

Brad Shreve: 45:20

It's, yeah, it, it gets me every time I was again. She is a tragic character, but I was very happy for her husband and her son I that they are together and I think they can move forward. Donald sutherland's character he was clearly hurt. Timothy dalton's character it was just like a shrug timothy dalton. Timothy hudson yeah, timothy dalton, when he was young he played no uh yeah timothy hutton. His character was somewhat nonchalant. He was more concerned about his father. Well, he's. He didn't really ask for details, he's healed or he's healing.

Tony Maietta: 45:52

Yeah, that's the thing. Think about him at the beginning of the movie. He is dealing with his, with his demons. He's dealing with his issues.

Tony Maietta: 45:59

Now it's their turn yeah, at the end of the movie he's the strongest character he's the strongest character at the end of the movie and he and he tells his father he loves him and that's so. You know there's hope for calvin, because that's a beautiful scene at the end when the camera just pulls back. And then they are, and you know, mary teller moore is gone in the taxi. God knows, she's going back to Texas to her brother, and so you know they're going to be okay, but wow.

Brad Shreve: 46:25

Yeah, and I. It's not that I'm unsympathetic towards Mary's character, but there comes a point where you just have to realize there's nothing I can do to chip away. No, it's true, I have to.

Tony Maietta: 46:34

I have to move on and look, I don't and I don't think you need necessarily to have understanding for her or sympathy for her. But I don't like either when people say she's a bitch, because she's not a bitch. That's too easy, that's too clean, that's too surfacy. No, this is an incredibly wounded woman and I don't think you're supposed to feel warm for her. You're supposed to feel exactly what you feel, you know uncomfortable around her.

Brad Shreve: 46:58

I'm sympathetic in the fact that I understood where her pain was coming from. I was not sympathetic in that she didn't even. I know she seemed to try in that year but she didn't really seem to try. She just she wouldn't let those barriers drop. I just don't think she could more than a second.

Tony Maietta: 47:15

She couldn't, she couldn't. I mean there's some people who just can't and you just have to get to a point in your life where you say God bless you and move on.

Tony Maietta: 47:42

Wish you the best genius of Robert Redford to look at what someone would derogatively call a sitcom actress and realize these depths, the depths of this talent and the depths of the emotion in this woman. You know, it's just, it's staggering. You know, the very, very tragic thing about this is is that three months I'm sorry, no, three weeks after Ordinary People was released life kind of imitated art and Mary Tyler Moore's only son, richie, died of a. He accidentally shot himself in the head. So her only son. And she had a very, very conflicted relationship with her son. Basically, richie was a child.

Tony Maietta: 48:25

When Richie on the Dick Van Dyke show was a child, they used to play together. So he saw his mother through this incredible career, but she was never there. She tried to be there, so she had a very difficult relationship with him. So can you imagine I mean tried to be there, so she had a very difficult relationship with him. So can you imagine, I mean that's so her sister had died. Now her son dies, mary Tyler Moore a survivor for sure, you know, dealing with her diabetes and all of these tragedies in her life, it's just so I never forget. That adds an extra layer to me, that meta layer, knowing what happened to her real son shortly after this film was released.

Brad Shreve: 49:02

Yeah, I can't imagine having this movie come out at that same time. I mean it's yeah, and then to lose the Oscar, what the so yes, but I mean, I can imagine people praising her for what a great movie is, continuously reminding her that life imitated art. Here it's just well.

Tony Maietta: 49:22

Yeah, I mean how do you ever watch, how painful? How do you ever watch this film again and not think about the on tragedy in your life which mirrors it?

Clip: 49:29

Do you know?

Tony Maietta: 49:29

I even wonder if she could, I guess, we'll never know, We'll never know. But yes, ordinary people.

Brad Shreve: 49:35

I got to bring up one of the conversations that just also hit me in the gut please was when I'm not. I'm gonna use their real names because I can't think of the characters. When donald southern asked her do you love me, rather than saying I do love you, she said I feel the same way I always did. Yes, yes, it's like. Oh, my god, it's a dagger through the heart. Yeah, the look on his face, that look alone, should have gotten him an Oscar. No it's just.

Tony Maietta: 50:03

He should have. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how you eliminate some of the other guys, but yeah, I agree with you, I agree.

Brad Shreve: 50:08

Or at least a nomination.

Tony Maietta: 50:09

So, yes, ordinary People won Best Picture. It won four Oscars, six nominations Jud nominated for Best Supporting Actor. As in Mary. Tyler Moore was nominated for Best Actress. It won Best Picture. Best Director Robert.

Brad Shreve: 50:28

Redford Best Adapted Screenplay. Alvin Sargent and Supporting Actor was Timothy Hutton, who was 20 years old at the time and is still the youngest winner of Best Supporting Actor. Isn't that amazing? And you know, he really. To me he was the primary character and he really deserved to win the Best Actor Award. I get it. There's no way in the world he would have won. It just would never have happened. So it's best for him.

Clip: 50:46

But it still drove me crazy. Well, yeah, not to me.

Tony Maietta: 50:51

Yeah, unfortunately it's been kind of. It hasn't gotten a bad reputation, but his reputation has kind of gone down over the years as time has gone on and people, mostly, as I said, due to Raging Bull, but it also beat the Elephant man. It beat Coal Miner's Daughter, it beat Tess. I think it's a brilliant, brilliant best picture winner and I got to tell you a very funny story. For some reason I have this memory Lillian Gish presented robert redford with best director oscar and I swear to god, when she was, however, old I was 12 year old when she was reading nominees. I'm watching she and I believe she said robert redford for ordinary purple. So whenever I think of this movie now, I think of Ordinary Purple.

Brad Shreve: 51:42

That was the prequel to the Color Purple.

Tony Maietta: 51:45

The Color Purple, exactly, exactly, exactly. So anyway, I just want to wrap up something. You've talked about narcissistic personality disorders on this podcast and I want to read something to you. I got something to read that journalist Julia Hall said and she's written extensively about narcissistic personality disorder and she praised Mary Tyler Moore for taking such a career risk. She said scaffolding gaping emptiness, with a persona of perfection supported by denial, blame, rejection and rage. And that's the thing. The rage in Beth is so staggering that she can't let it out. It's just, it's. The complexities of this performance, of this character are phenomenal.

Brad Shreve: 52:34

Yeah, she's that person. When she walks in the room, when she's in that state, you can't wait for her to leave. Yeah, exactly, that household is one. When you walk in the front door, you feel like you have to kind of push the tension aside to get through.

Tony Maietta: 52:47

Oh, wow, yeah, or wear a really, really big parka because it's cold in that house, it's cold in that Jared house. So this obviously started Robert Redford on an incredibly successful directing career. He directed nine more films so far Quiz Show, which I love, a River Runs Through it, something else I love, yeah, and unfortunately we know we just lost Donald Sutherland recently. It wasn't that long ago that Donald Sutherland died, but we lost Mary, of course, very, very sad, but God, what a legacy of this woman, and I mean, even if she had just been Laura Petri and Mary Richards, you know, case closed, full stop. Yeah. To add this performance to that is just phenomenal, phenomenal. So, brad, why don't you tell us how this film performed when it was released?

Brad Shreve: 53:39

Well, you know, you've got to remind me in the future. I want to talk, to get people in the perspective of the time. I want to talk about other films that came out during that same year. So to give people an idea, here's oh good idea. Here's what came out that year that you'll remember. There were a lot of movies but Caddyshack, private Benjamin, the Blues Brothers, the Shining, and then the ones that were the top grossing films.

Brad Shreve: 54:04

I'm going to start with this film. This film was made with a $6.2 million budget. Yeah, it grossed $52 million. Now, adjusted for inflation, you know I love to do that yeah, adjusted for inflation, it earned $202 million by today's dollars. Wow, pretty damn good, pretty damn good. But it was only number 10th that year. Number 10 and the reason is because we had some big ones. Some hold up, some I don't ever want to see again. One the number one should be no surprise. Star wars, episode 5 the empire strikes back. Well, yeah, then. A movie that I know will not should be no surprise. Star Wars, episode V the Empire Strikes Back. Well, yeah, then. A movie that I know will not hold up is Stir Crazy, I know that Richard Pryor, was that also with Gene Wilder?

Tony Maietta: 54:49

Gene?

Brad Shreve: 54:49

Wilder Okay, I wasn't sure if he was the co-star. Then we had Kramer vs Kramer. Ah, we had Airplane, and the one that certainly does not hold up it didn't even hold up at that time was Any which Way you Can.

Tony Maietta: 55:03

Oh, which was the reggaetang we talked about that, but I love Ruth Gordon Goddamn ape eating all my.

Clip: 55:11

Oreos.

Tony Maietta: 55:12

Crapping all over the place. 12 ribs, my ass. No, I know it's funny.

Brad Shreve: 55:17

It doesn't hold up. I love Ruth Gordon. I can't believe she was even in that film. I remember nothing about it. It's the only thing I watch, probably on purpose. It's the only thing.

Tony Maietta: 55:23

I watch in that. I think Kramer vs Kramer was 79. It must have been 79-80 kind of thing, because Hoffman won. Hoffman won Best Actor 79.

Brad Shreve: 55:33

Oh, really that's kind of weird.

Tony Maietta: 55:35

It was probably one of those ones, maybe it wasn't, maybe it was on the borderline yeah, well, I made it in december, huge amount of money, so it probably was probably that was now as far as the critics go, um, it was rotten tomatoes.

Brad Shreve: 55:47

The critic score is 89 and the audience score pretty much matches at 88, and I do have to one little bit of trivia here as I'm looking through the other films that came out this year. There was a film that came out that year that I didn't even know existed. Oh really, the thong show movie. Oh, I remember that. I don't remember it, but I do love this quote. George burns went and saw it and his quote for this was for the first time in 65 years, I wanted to get out of show business.

Tony Maietta: 56:24

Oh, that's great. I love that. That sounds like one of those lines at that ridiculous party that Calvin and Beth went to.

Brad Shreve: 56:37

I love another line from that party is this guy says I have no idea what my schedule is, but I'm free almost every day. And, folks, as I said before, if you've listened to us this far, it must mean you somewhat enjoy the show, because I don't think you put yourself through pain if you didn't. So please tell your friends to have a listen and you know what? Let others know that you don't even know by going to Apple or Spotify or whatever app you listen to, and rate and review us, please, right?

Tony Maietta: 57:00

Exactly Right, exactly Exactly. And be sure and stay tuned throughout this month because, as I said, it's mother's may and we have some wonderful mother movies coming up, one which features the biggest mother of them all, and that's all I'm going to say. So, brad, is there anything more we want to say about Ordinary Purple? This?

Brad Shreve: 57:22

film. No, I did release some of my pain and anxiety. Good, good I'm glad.

Tony Maietta: 57:30

Well, I guess that leaves us with only one thing left to say Brad, but I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye, let's just say au revoir.

Brad Shreve: 57:40

No, let's say goodbye,

Brad Shreve: 57:43

goodbye everybody.