Tony Maietta: 0:07

Hello, I'm film historian Tony Maietta.

Brad Shreve: 0:10

And I'm Brad Shreve, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta: 0:13

We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve: 0:20

And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta: 0:25

As does your self-delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve: 0:31

Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Tony. Happy birthday to you.

Tony Maietta: 0:38

Are we doing Boys in the Band again? It's your birthday, it is, it is.

Brad Shreve: 0:45

So which birthday is it? Excuse me, tony, which birthday is it?

Tony Maietta: 0:50

Oh, it's mine. It's mine, april 30th.

Brad Shreve: 0:54

I know, tony, april 30th, april 30th, what?

Tony Maietta: 0:59

April 30th period.

Brad Shreve: 1:03

That's okay.

Tony Maietta: 1:04

I added props. That's a Lucy joke. That's from I Love Lucy. Someone asked Lucy's birthday and she says August 6th period. So yeah, that's a lot of fun. Well, thank you. Yes, indeed, this is a very special podcast because it is my birthday. And since it's my birthday, I get to pick, which is silly because I pick all the time sometimes I get to fight my own way sometimes you get one, you get one.

Tony Maietta: 1:31

But this is very special because listener, dear listener, it's our first silent film. Wow, how about that? And depending on how this goes, it may be our last silent film, but I don't think so. I think so. I I gotta tell you, brad, I think I was pretty easy on you with this. I think I mean, it wasn't like I gave you intolerance or birth of a nation. This is my best girl.

Tony Maietta: 1:57

Yeah, I guess, you do, I guess you do so well, I mean, I my feelings about this and why I wanted this to be my, my, my, my birthday pick. As I said, it's probably my favorite film of this entire era. I think it's charming, it's touching, it's beautiful to watch, and if you don't think so, brad, then I think we're going to do our first silent podcast, because I cannot Brooke no, that's not true. I can broke criticisms of this film, but I do adore it. I do love it. In my opinion, it's not only Mary Pickford's best romantic comedy, it's one of the best romantic comedies of the silent era and it's also, sadly, mary Pickford's last silent film but she did continue, she did.

Brad Shreve: 2:41

She did Not all, not all. She did continue, she did. She did Not all silent stars did.

Tony Maietta: 2:43

No, she did Well. She went on to make films after this, but this is really her last good film, and I'll talk a little bit about Mary Pickford's subsequent films. After Sound came in, you know, she was only 35, and she looks a lot younger than 35, I think. Did you think so? I mean?

Brad Shreve: 3:01

Yeah, I thought she would have been younger the way you said that.

Tony Maietta: 3:03

Yeah, I thought she would have been younger the way you said that, yeah, I mean really. I mean considering the woman played children frequently, you know, but she's only 35, but she had been acting since she was seven and she'd been acting in films since 1909. So she was a veteran of over 200 films by the time she retired.

Brad Shreve: 3:23

I know I saw that and if you want any idea how many films they made back in the silent era, that is a lot of films.

Tony Maietta: 3:31

Well, and we're not talking about, I mean, when she started in 1909, they were shorts.

Brad Shreve: 3:35

Yeah, they were shorts, but most were back then.

Tony Maietta: 3:37

Featured films, but I mean they made a film a week. Sometimes they made a film a day. I mean, it was that fast. So since we're talking about this, I've got to ask you, brad, is this the first silent film?

Brad Shreve: 3:48

you've ever watched. It is not the first silent film I've watched, and let me tell you about this. I don't watch silent films and I don't watch foreign films with subtitles. And there's a reason for that. Most silent films the words pop up so fast and they go away before you can read them. It's irritating as hell. I don't watch silent film. I mean I don't watch foreign films, not because I don't think they're great films. There's so much in expressions when it comes to an actor and I feel like when I'm reading, I'm not gonna say I never watch them, but when I'm reading I miss so much. Going to say I never watch them, but when I'm reading I miss so much of that, and it just it's almost like I'd have to watch it twice.

Tony Maietta: 4:28

That's a very astute observation. I know other people who feel exactly the same way about that, yeah.

Brad Shreve: 4:34

And that's the only reason I don't mind reading. But here's what I think of this film. Okay, I was very nervous when you said let's do a silent film. I was very nervous when you said let's do a silent film I loved this film.

Tony Maietta: 4:48

Oh yay, Happy birthday, Tony.

Brad Shreve: 4:50

It is a wonderful sitcom. Before the word sitcom ever was a thing.

Tony Maietta: 4:55

Yeah, no, it's true, it's true.

Brad Shreve: 4:57

It is delightful. The story was great, the direction is great, the cast is great. I wasn wasn't thrilled with, but the rest of them were just great. There's and the thing is one of the things first of all, the cards were up very long time that you could easily read them. They were short because so much was said without any words well, hello.

Tony Maietta: 5:19

I think you just hit the nail on the head there with the silent film, you know.

Brad Shreve: 5:22

But not all silent films were this way. A lot of them had, like the words popping up all the time. It was so unnecessary with this movie.

Tony Maietta: 5:28

You know, they didn't need words, they had faces.

Tony Maietta: 5:30

then as normally Desmond famously says in sunset Boulevard, and I think this is a good point to bring up and a good time to talk up. I don't want to go in too much of the history of silent film, but I I do want to put a few legends, rumors, to rest, and one of them is the one that you just said that we're going to talk about. But I think the first thing I have to say, and the first thing that's most important to people when they watch a silent film, is to realize that silent films were never silent. That is a misnomer and people think I can't watch this movie. It doesn't matter where you were.

Tony Maietta: 6:05

There was always some sort of musical accompaniment and that that, whether you be in. You know, I always hate to pick on Peoria, I don't know why Peoria always pops in my head, but you could have been. Let's not say I'm Pocatello Idaho, there you go, um, so you can be watching a film in Pocatello, idaho and there would be a piano or a three-piece orchestra or an organ, or you could be watching this in one of these fabulous movie palaces in Times Square and there could be a full orchestra or a philharmonic. So that's what's so important to point out, most people experience silent films with orchestrations, because by this time 19 there were. You know there was recording, you could record a soundtrack. And that's really how silent film uh talkie started.

Tony Maietta: 6:52

It was not speech, it was music so I think that's really important to point out when people talk about silent film, and also what you said about um, about the title cards. You, the title cards, were not in place of dialogue usually. Sometimes they were, but the point of the silent film was the actors, the faces, told you the story. You used your eyes to watch the story being told. So the title cards usually just punctuated a point or they acted as a to get you from one scene to the next. They act as a transition, but they were not. They didn't replace dialogue. That was the point was was that the actors told you the story through their eyes, through their gestures, and nobody did that better than mary pickford I am really still bowled away from this film.

Brad Shreve: 7:43

It's just, I laughed a lot, I uh, I can't say enough and I'm really surprised.

Tony Maietta: 7:50

Oh good, wow, that's good. Well, this is, this is I'm, I'm, I'm surprised. I'm pleasantly surprised, because I was a little nervous. I like I like when we have healthy debates about films, but there are some films which I probably shouldn't give them to us to talk about because they mean so much to me, and this is one of these films that just has a very, very special place in my heart, and so I'm glad we're talking about it.

Tony Maietta: 8:15

And I would love to talk about Mary, and I don't want to go too deeply in depth about Mary, because Mary Pickford there are some great books, websites. There's one fantastic documentary in particular that features one of the co-hosts of this podcast, and it is available on Amazon and we'll link below. It's called Mary Pickford A Blessing or a Curse, but I think what I want to say about Mary Pickford is that you can't really be hyperbolic when you're talking about Mary Pickford. Mary Pickford was the biggest star the world has ever known. I just want to say that from the beginning and that is not a hyperbolic statement, brad, that is fact, fact.

Brad Shreve: 9:03

She was known everywhere, from pomona to saint petersburg to peoria when I looked at her salary during that time period, I was amazed. Oh yeah, she was making 350 000 per movie, which today equates to 6.3 million. Oh yeah oh yeah, well, I got some stats for you, believe me well, it kind of confused me a little bit, because this movie it means that she almost was the entire cost of this movie, which maybe she was.

Tony Maietta: 9:32

Well, but what year was that? By the time it came to my Best Girl, which is 1927, mary Pickford owned the whole shebang. Okay, this was Mary Pickford. Mary Pickford was the producer. This was Mary Pickford. Mary Pickford was the producer. Mary Pickford was the studio executive, mary Pickford. This was part of Mary Pickford's Pickford Film Corporation, so she owned this entire thing.

Tony Maietta: 9:52

Back in 1917, she was the first actress to get points. You know what points are when an actor gets points on a film. No, it's a percentage. They get a percentage of the profits. Okay, usually actors today get 2%, 3%, 4%. Mary Pickford got 50%, oh my Lord, back in 1917. So that's just for context, but we'll go into that because I do have some things I want to talk about. Well, the reason I think that you have to understand that Mary Pickford was the biggest thing in the world was because silent films were a universal language, and this is one of the things that people were crying out when talkies came in. They're like we've lost our universal language because all you had to do was change the language of a title card and a film could play anywhere. Oh, that's true. So that's why people, people, it people knew when mary pickford and douglas fairbanks went to russia.

Tony Maietta: 10:49

They were mobbed I mean it's insane how famous this woman was and today we think someone is a celebrity if they have 1 million followers on instagram. Don't you think that's fair?

Tony Maietta: 11:00

um, maybe more nowadays well, 2 million, then let's okay, 2 million, 10 million followers. I think you think would be a celebrity today if you had 10 million followers on instagram. I think you're a celebrity. Mary pickford would have had 100 million followers on instagram. I mean, that is how famous she was. In 1915. It was determined that her face was seen by 12.5 million people every 24 hours. Wow, so that's pretty famous.

Brad Shreve: 11:28

A little bit on the famous side.

Tony Maietta: 11:30

So I'm just going to go a little bit into Mary's background, just so we have a context for this. Mary Pickford famously called America's sweetheart, even though she was born in Canada, I thought.

Brad Shreve: 11:43

Sandra Bullock was America's sweetheart.

Tony Maietta: 11:44

There's always an America's sweetheart, but Mary was the first. Okay, mary Pickford was the first America's sweetheart and she didn't take that name. The distributors gave her that name. Mary did not take that on and she always pointed that out. So she was born in Toronto, canada, in 1892, as Gladys Louise Smith.

Tony Maietta: 12:05

She was the oldest of three children and her father deserted the family and then he later died, and so there were three children and her mother, and they were in very dire straits. And her mother, mary's mother, charlotte Pickford, who was quite a force to be reckoned with, very close to Mary, began taking in boarders to help them make ends meet, and one of them was a theatrical stage manager for a stock company in Toronto. Now they had trouble making money. They were taking in boarders. So he suggested. He said the play that we're doing needs a child in the cast.

Tony Maietta: 12:40

Would you think about allowing Gladys that was her name at the time to be in the play? And Mary's mother was horrified because acting was only slightly better than prostitution at the time. But the money was very badly needed and so she allowed it. And Mary's little sister, lottie, also did the play not began it. From then on, little Gladys was the breadwinner of the family and the entire family began touring in theatrical productions. Um, and it's interesting because when they were touring, little Gladys met two other young theatrical troopers, uh sisters named Dorothy and Lillian Gish, who kind of played a small part in the history of film as well.

Brad Shreve: 13:23

I think I've heard of them.

Tony Maietta: 13:24

Yeah, possibly so. Anyway, fast forward many years past. Gladys is now a teenager and she's in a Broadway play, and if you want to find out the machinations that she did to get in the play, then you can watch the documentary. She's in a Broadway play called the Warrens of Virginia, which also featured another future colleague, cecil B DeMille, by the way, and it was under the tutelage of David Belasco, who was a big theatrical impresario, and he is the one who said Gladys Smith is not going to fly, we need to change your name. And he's the one who christened her Mary Pickford. Pickford was a family name and Mary liked the name Marie, but he thought that was too fancy, so she became Mary Pickford. Am I boring you yet with this, brad, or are we good?

Brad Shreve: 14:14

No, actually I like that because Mary Pickford is a little more down-home and relatable than Marie.

Tony Maietta: 14:19

Okay, but here's the problem. So she's on Broadway. You'd think she'd be doing great. She's on Broadway. You think she'd be doing great. She's on Broadway in a David Belasco play, the family set. But they weren't, because theater was seasonal and in the summer there was no work. The theaters shut down in the summer because it was too damn hot. There was no air conditioning.

Tony Maietta: 14:38

So about this same time, down on 14th Street in New York, there was this little thing happening that was soon to be called the Movies, and the most successful of these was a company called Biograph, and it was run by a man named David Wark Griffith, who you may have heard of as DW Griffith. And, against her better judgment, but at the urging of her mother, mary went down to Biograph. She met with Griffith and they began working in a very contentious relationship, but she began working for him and she fell in love with making movies. She only went back to the theater after that one more time. From then on she was in the movies, and this was in 1909, as I said. So just think about that. Well, over a hundred years ago, this woman began making films.

Brad Shreve: 15:34

And what amazes me about this movie is it's so timeless. Yeah, it is 98 years old and this movie is timeless.

Tony Maietta: 15:42

Well, you know why I think that is. It's because of a lot of things, but the major reason is and this is what's important about Mary Pickford is Mary Pickford basically invented screen acting? So I want you to think about this for a minute. So back in the early 1900s, when movies first started, film acting was very much like theater acting of the day. It's called Delsart method and what it means is gestures indicate emotions.

Tony Maietta: 16:12

So if you're angry, you clench your fists, or if you're sad, you wipe your brow, you cock your head, and Griffith wanted Mary to act this way and this is one of the reasons why they had such a contentious relationship. And she said that's ridiculous. She says I'm not a little child, I'm a young woman. I don't do that, I don't go into gesticulation over things. She said that camera Mary knew that the camera's eye was like six feet away from her, so doing these big gestures looked ridiculous. She just knew instinctively that if she really felt something and if it were true, if she was really feeling it, it would show in her eyes and her face and her body and the camera would register it and it would be transmitted to the audience. So you know she was fired on more than one occasion from Griffith, because she refused to do things like that, and he would hire her back again and would say okay, do it your way, do it your way.

Tony Maietta: 17:11

And then he began to see that she was right and he gave her more and more to do in bigger and bigger roles and, as I said, she never went back to Broadway except one more time. She never returned to the stage again and so, as she began to be noticed, she began to be called the biograph girl, the girl with the golden curls. She began to be known, and this never happened before. There was a biograph girl before Mary, but not with the level of fame of Mary's, and I think I want to say that out because it was what Pickford did. It was this acting style of hers. George Cukor remember, we've talked about George Cukor, the director, george Cukor, before, right?

Brad Shreve: 17:49

Once or twice.

Tony Maietta: 17:50

Yeah, no slouch as far as directors go. And George Cukor called her the first method actress. Now she called it mood acting. But what he meant was that. What he meant was, as I just said, she felt she knew if she really believed it it would come through her eyes to that camera and out the projector and into the hearts of the audience. And she was right. And more than any other actress she was loved by her audience. They formed an emotional connection with her through her eyes. Her eyes told you everything. And did you find I mean, this is what I love about this movie that we will eventually get to? I mean, her eyes, they tell you so much. Every single emotion that she is feeling is transmitted through those big brown eyes.

Brad Shreve: 18:39

I noticed that right from the beginning. I didn't notice that her eyes were brown.

Tony Maietta: 18:43

Well, it's a black and white film, but yeah, her eyes were brown.

Brad Shreve: 18:47

But no, right from the beginning I'm like, wow, she has great eyes, Her expressions are great and you know it was sillier than I. I knew very little about Mary. I knew about Mary Pickford from a historical standpoint but I knew very little of her acting and I expected more of a romance uh, haughty type of romance. Really I didn't expect this kind of it wasn't slapsticky like or hardy, but I didn't expect this much humor and there was a little silliness I wouldn't expect only because I knew she was such a big star and it didn't seem like it would have been appropriate for the time well, you know that's a myth about Mary Pickford.

Tony Maietta: 19:27

Okay, another myth about Mary Pickford is that she's cloying. She was always a little girl. She was a cloying. It's so wrong. And I think this film she doesn't play a little girl. In this film, obviously she plays a young woman, but that wasn't Mary Pickford.

Tony Maietta: 19:39

Mary Pick was one of the audience. Another reason why they loved her she was a working class girl. Now she was a huge star. She was very, very rich by this point, but her image was that of the working class and that's why she was so popular. You know she was that.

Tony Maietta: 19:57

The audience is identified with her because she was. They saw her as one of them. And I think that's what you responded to. Because Mary Pickford, her persona, this persona as a sweet young girl, is totally wrong. She was a hellion. You know she really was. She was an energetic, feisty, optimistic, sometimes ornery young woman and that's what she plays here. She plays a young, ambitious woman who loves her family but who can be tough if she needs to be. And that's the thing about Mary Pickford I'd like to dispel is that she's not cloying. It happened because Shirley Temple remade a lot of Mary Pickford's films in sound, and that is Shirley Temple. Shirley Temple is cloying. She is, you know, the little girl. That's not Mary Pickford. Mary Pickford is hell on wheels in many of her films and she's a hell of a lot of fun too. So I'm glad that you said that and I think that's important to point out.

Brad Shreve: 20:57

Yeah, that was a pleasant surprise. Good, I'm glad, I'm glad, that's right from the beginning when she's walking around with a pan on her foot.

Tony Maietta: 21:06

Isn't that a great first scene.

Brad Shreve: 21:07

I was like what. I did not expect that.

Tony Maietta: 21:10

I love that opening scene. Yes, yes, the opening scene of my Best Girl takes place in the department store. You know all these department stores in the 20s. They're just like madness chaos. Anytime you see a department store from a film in the 20s, they're chaotic. Everybody you see a department store from a film in the 20s, they're chaotic. Everybody's climbing all over everybody and they're so busy and everybody's being pulled in all these directions and she's carrying all these pots. She's a stock girl and she's what happens to her. She's carrying these pots and she keeps dropping them and trying to hold on to them and then something happens which I love, which sums up mary pickford to a t. Do you remember what happens? That's like oh, what's going on here? She loses her underwear. Oh my God. Yes.

Brad Shreve: 21:48

And that woman thinks it's hers. Oh my God, I was laughing hysterically.

Tony Maietta: 21:51

She's carrying his pod and she's like almost made it. And she's like what? She feels something and she looks down and her bloomers start to fall around her ankles so she steps out of them and she kicks them over and she's walking over and a customer comes walking and gets tangled up at them and looks down at them and thinks they're hers. So she pulls them up really quickly and backs out of the scene. It's this kind of humor, it's this kind of fun common man humor that Mary Pickford did.

Tony Maietta: 22:20

And you know a sad thing about one of the reasons why people don't know who Mary Pickford have these misrepresentations about Mary Pickford is the fact that and it's kind of her fault she took all of her films out of circulation once talkies came in because she thought people would think they were old-fashioned and they would laugh at them. So she's kind of responsible for this. She actually was going to burn them. Can you imagine? She was going to burn all of her films because she did not want to be laughed at. She thought people are going to think I'm old-fashioned I don't want to be a caricature and it was only because her good friend Lillian Gish told her not to do that and then slowly she allowed them to be seen until they're being seen more and more and more. And after she died, then they've really come out and more and more. And after she died, then they've really come out and people can reevaluate and rediscover Mary Pickford for the true wonderful actress that she was.

Brad Shreve: 23:16

Well, and I think some people could mistake it as being ridiculous you know the overexpressions and the makeup, but I think anybody smart enough to understand that that's actually a skill those reactions because it was a silent film and again they had to talk through their expressions and it was a silent film I but I don't think about pickford is, and this is why q core calls her the first, first method actors.

Tony Maietta: 23:39

I don't think she's ever over the top.

Brad Shreve: 23:41

No, no, no, I didn't mean, I didn't mean that in that sense, but the exaggerations are more than what we normally see. I would say, especially what's his name? Buddy, buddy Rogers, charles. Buddy Rogers, buddy Rogers, yeah, especially he did, but I don't think it was bad, but he did a lot of very exaggerated emotions.

Tony Maietta: 23:59

Well, okay, I mean, I see what you're saying Despite being incredibly handsome.

Tony Maietta: 24:03

Well, yes, buddy Rogers, we'll get to Buddy Rogers and his relationship with Mary. But, yes, but it's a style, it's a theatrical style. You know, people also think, don't realize that silent films are a different art form. Yes, talkies did not replace silent films. They are two totally different, I'm going to say it, two different entities. Silent films were different than talkies, and so have to remember that. That's one of the reasons why talkies had such a difficult time, because people were used to these incredible images of silent film, these lush scores and these beautiful, glorious tinted images, and then suddenly the camera stationary and people don't move and they just talk. And that's why it took so long for for sound film to get going, because they had to find their own style.

Brad Shreve: 24:52

I equate that to black and white and color films. They're two different art forms. They colorize films, which just drives me nuts, because those old films were designed to be filmed in black and white.

Tony Maietta: 25:03

Yeah.

Brad Shreve: 25:04

So that's why, when they colorize it, no matter how good a job they do, it doesn't look right.

Tony Maietta: 25:10

No, they colorize it. No matter how good a job they do, it doesn't look right. No, it doesn't, and we've talked about that too. It's a it's to me, it's a different art form to me. You're tampering with the director's vision, which I think I feel the same thing about pan and scan. That's why I will only watch something if it's shot in widescreen. I will only watch it inside in widescreen, because you're missing half the movie. Uh, when you don't when you watch it in standard screen, I don't think that's as much an issue now with widescreen tvs.

Brad Shreve: 25:32

But before you go on, I want to. I want to give my background on why I had the expectations I did with this movie oh, please do.

Brad Shreve: 25:39

I want to hear them there's two silent films that really come to mind. Are you familiar with lauren hardy hardy's the music box? Yeah, of course. Okay, I used to hike around Silver Lake and, for those that don't know, silver Lake is known for these stairs that were designed so people could get down to the trolley cars Right, and one of those long staircases is called the Music Box Stairs. Now, because Laurel and Hardy filmed a movie where their job was to get a piano from the bottom of the stairs to the top of the stairs.

Brad Shreve: 26:06

Now, there were very little cards in that film because it was mostly physical slapstick and it was very funny, it was very cute. Then I had the opposite side where I watched I think it was. I'm going to use Birth of a Nation as one where there are a lot of cards that you had to read because there was so much involved in the story. I thought this movie, because of my expectations of Mary, was going to lean more towards the birth of a nation side. Now, I didn't think it'd be the same movie, but I thought the style would be the same. I'm happy that it was in the middle, probably lean a little more towards Laurel and Hardy as far as the simplicity of it, but a better film, a better dumb film and there is slapstick but it's not a slapsticky movie.

Brad Shreve: 26:51

There is slapstick in it. There is slapstick in it, whereas Lauren Hardy was a slapsticky film. Yes, yes, exactly.

Tony Maietta: 26:57

There is a great deal of humor in this film. There's also a great deal of romance in this film and I'm glad you point that out. Now you also have to remember that this is 1927, the height of the art of silent film, because this film was released in november and the movie that a movie was released one month before, in october, called the jazz singer. So this film was truly when silent films were at their peak. You watch almost any film, any uh celebrated film from 1927 and you you're going to have the same reaction they're glorious. That's the peak of the art form. So also, I wanted to give you a film that shows them at their peak, because it truly was the zenith of this incredible art form which, by the way, would be gone completely in a few years. Gone completely, yeah, done. I mean nothing. It's crazy to think that an art form that was so beloved was so quickly discarded so fast. It's insane, it's insane. So, before we talk about the production of my Best Girl, I just want to say a couple.

Tony Maietta: 28:02

I'm going to wrap up my Mary Pickford session here because I just To drive the point home about this woman and who basically invented Hollywood. Um, I I just want to point out a couple things. The firsts, um and I'm not gonna have all of them because there's so many, but, as we said, mary Pickford was the first movie star. She set the parameters for movie stardom. Nobody, nobody, had ever done it before. So, julia Roberts, annette Bening, who's a movie star today? Meryl Streep, of course. Yes, mary Pickford was first. They owe that debt to Mary Pickford. No one had ever done it before.

Tony Maietta: 28:47

The, the rise, the fandom, all mary pickford. And also, since she was the first person to experience the rise, she was the first one to experience the fall. So when her career began to decline, she's like oh, this is what this is. Nobody ever gone through it before. Um, she was the first actor to receive a million dollars in one year, and I've said this one before she was the first woman to run her own Hollywood studio, and the only one. Until. Who? Brad? Lucille Ball, that's right. Ding ding, ding ding. I was like you know this, don't you, brad? I say it like every podcast.

Brad Shreve: 29:26

Of course I knew it.

Tony Maietta: 29:34

I just was stunned when you asked me a question out of the blue, but I knew it right away Mary Pickford and Lucy, and ironically, I think the only other person in the world whose face has been seen more and more people is Lucy. So that's kind of interesting that these two, these women, have a lot in common. Lucy and Mary Pickford Well, they were both great actors and both great business people.

Tony Maietta: 29:48

Ah, incredible business people. Adolph Zucker said that Mary Pickford, if she had decided not to become an actress she could have run US Steel because she knew everything about the business of filmmaking. I said she was the first actress to receive a percentage 50% before she owned the films outright. She and Douglas Fairbanks were Hollywood's first movie star couple. So Brad and Angelina and Taylor and Burton, Lucy and Desi all go back to Pickford and Fairbanks. They were the first ones to live in Beverly Hills at Pickfair, which the press dubbed with their two names, Pickford and Fairbanks. Pickfair, we have Bradgley. And who is it? Desilu? Yes, that's where Desilu comes from.

Brad Shreve: 30:38

Yeah, this was the first couple melding. Name Pickfair Exactly, exactly.

Tony Maietta: 30:43

Exactly.

Brad Shreve: 30:43

And I have a question about, before I forget, pickfair Studios. Yeah, I know the studio doesn't exist. Does that property exist, still under a different studio name?

Tony Maietta: 30:51

Yes, it's on Santa Monica and Formosa Santa Monica Boulevard and Formosa. I think it's called the Lot.

Brad Shreve: 30:58

Oh, okay, I know where that. Yes, I know I'm familiar with the.

Tony Maietta: 31:00

Lot. Yes, that was the Pickford Fairbank Studio. So when Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks got married, they brought their studios together and they made all of their films at the Pickford Fairbank studio. Robin Hood was made there. This film was made there. The Thief of Baghdad was made there. Sparrows Mary's film before this was everything since 1920 was made there. So she was the first major star to enter talkies. So there's another myth blown that oh, these silent stars didn't want no Mary's like. Ooh, something new, let me try it. She was one of the initial investors in the Chinese theater and there are some legend that the footprints were her idea.

Brad Shreve: 31:36

I don't know about that, but some people claim that I always heard that was a step by accident. Well, somebody claimed I don't know if I ever believed that.

Tony Maietta: 31:44

People have claimed that her little doggy made footprints in the cement at Pickfair, and that's where they got the idea.

Brad Shreve: 31:49

Well, you know that's fun. Let's stick with it, it's a little apocryphal.

Tony Maietta: 31:53

She's one of the founding members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. She was instrumental in the formation of the first film school in the United States, the USC School of Cinematic Arts. And here's the big one. Okay, and here's the big one. She, along with Charlie Chaplin, douglas Fairbanks and DW Griffith, formed United Artists, which is still in existence today. This was the first time a group of artists banded together to take control over their films. And you know, united Artists was begun as a distribution company, not a production company.

Tony Maietta: 32:32

People get that confused. She had her own production company, douglas Fairbanks had his own production company, chaplin had his own. They needed someone to distribute their films. So they created United Artists and it's been done time and time again by other movie stars, but it was begun with them. And finally, until we come back to it, she was instrumental in the formation of the Motion Picture Home in Woodland Hills, because many of her silent film colleagues were in very dire straits and she saw that and she said these people like DW Griffith, these people cannot end like this. So she was instrumental in creating the motion picture home. Whew, so that's just a couple things about this incredible woman whose film we're talking about today.

Brad Shreve: 33:17

You know I'm such a history buff. I want to tell folks when they bought this home in Beverly Hills it was an 18-acre estate. Go look at pictures of the house somewhere in the 20s and it still exists today. You can find it on Google. It's not the same house. It looks a lot different.

Tony Maietta: 33:33

It's not the same house.

Brad Shreve: 33:33

Oh, it's not the same house. Okay, it looks similar. I was wondering about that. I thought maybe they just changed it a little bit. No, okay.

Tony Maietta: 33:39

But the only thing that's the same is there's a sign, a gate says Picf, pia Zadora. You know who Pia Zadora was? Yes, terrible actress in the 80s. Yes, she and her husband bought it and destroyed it.

Brad Shreve: 33:52

Okay, so, but you can still see where it is. Yes, if you Google Pickfair, look at where it is back then and look what happened to Beverly Hills now. It's crazy. Well, you know, let's just say it's not 18 acres anymore.

Tony Maietta: 34:11

It was the only thing thing up there. It was yeah, it was douglas fairbanks hunting lodge. Okay, in the middle of beverly hills it was his hunting lodge and he gave it to mary pickford as a wedding present when they got married you know, what's funny is uh, I lived a short time in a mansion in beverly hill, or not.

Brad Shreve: 34:21

I lived a short time in a mansion in hollywood. I just rented a space and I didn't own the mansion for sure. I rented a space in it it we were always told it was Douglas's secondary home for his hunting and I'm like that's it. I always thought that was true. I found nothing to say. That's true. I hope it's true because it was a pretty cool place.

Tony Maietta: 34:40

Well, I mean, they all had a bunch of homes, but pick fair was the place. Let me tell you people, they were so big by the time they came together and got married, um, that they couldn't really go places because they would be mobbed wherever they went. So people had to come to them. So I mean kings, dukes, heads of state uh, lord mountbatten, the king of sweden, amelia erhart they came to picfair. Picfair was the place to go with these two people. So I mean, all of this was started. It was the first house in Beverly Hills to have a swimming pool. I mean, all these things we take for granted. They're even in the lyrics of the Beverly Hillbillies theme song, movie stars. It was started by Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks. It's crazy.

Brad Shreve: 35:26

And I want to give a modern equation to that, for lack of a better word. Okay, I saw oprah winfrey talking and she she was talking about how people talked about michael jordan being so extravagant that he had a house with a bowling alley and how huge it was and you know absurd it was. And oprah said you don't understand. Michael cannot go to the supermarket, right? Michael cannot go to a movie, he's swamped. And she said so many of these celebrities have this space because that's their only space. And I was like, wow, that really makes sense.

Tony Maietta: 35:59

Yeah, absolutely, I can totally see that. Then I mean, I don't know if that was the case, for I don't think Doug and Mary were going to grocery stores anyway, but I doubt that, but it's absolutely true. It's absolutely true, brad. I want to stop for a moment and say how excited I am to be back for our second season.

Brad Shreve: 36:18

Me too, tony, and we should tell people that we have many exciting new episodes scheduled for this year.

Tony Maietta: 36:24

We should. In fact, you just did, but what you didn't do is tell people that really enjoy the show, to tell their friends about us, and what do you know?

Brad Shreve: 36:34

You just did that.

Tony Maietta: 36:35

See how that works.

Brad Shreve: 36:36

Yes. So please tell your friends and rate and review us, and you can even send us a message at goinghollywoodpodcast at gmailcom. They should do that Right. They can even suggest a movie or TV show for us to talk about.

Tony Maietta: 36:50

Oh, I like that. It's interactive.

Brad Shreve: 36:51

Right.

Tony Maietta: 36:53

Well, I think that covered all our bases. Let's get back to the show. So let's give a little bit of background of this film. My Best Girl from 1927, united Artists, 1927. What's really wonderful about this film? What I love about this film is it's a story of two people falling in love on screen and in real life, because Charles Buddy Rogers, who plays the adorable Joe Grant, was the third husband, eventually, of Mary Pickford, and we will get into that. She was married to Douglas Fairbanks when they were making this film. But Rogers freely admitted to falling in love with her during the filming of this film and I've got to tell you you can see it.

Brad Shreve: 37:45

Don't you agree? Yes, you can definitely see the chemistry between the two. I want to step back a little bit and talk about Charles Rogers. Oh, please do this man. This is the second year after his first filming credit. His first credit is in 1926. In 1927, he starred in this movie and in Wings Right, a not too shabby film, no, no, not at all. So he just went out like like a rocket. He did, he did and I don't know about his. The rest of his career, I know he went until the set until the 1940s as a regular. He showed up on petticoat junction of the lucy show in the 60s playing himself.

Tony Maietta: 38:22

Yes, he did, playing himself.

Brad Shreve: 38:24

But you probably know more about his career after the talk he started.

Tony Maietta: 38:28

Yeah, buddy Rogers was a really wonderful guy. I say that like I knew him, I knew all these people in a previous life.

Brad Shreve: 38:36

You were chums.

Tony Maietta: 38:37

Yeah, Buddy Rogers, Buddy Pickford, I almost said Buddy Rogers. His moniker was America's Boyfriend. So you had America's Sweetheart with America's Boyfriend. And you're absolutely right. Buddy Rogers had quite a year in 1927. Just started films second year in Wings, which was the first film to win the Best Picture Academy Award, and personally picked by Mary Pickford to be her co-star in my Best Girl. Now can you imagine You're just starting your acting career and the biggest star in the world personally picks you to be her co-star. I mean, good Lord, that's crazy, right, but it happened, it happened.

Tony Maietta: 39:19

And yes, their chemistry this is what's amazing. This is a film which is 98 years old. This film is almost a hundred years old and you can see the chemistry between these two people the way it's. It's. It jumps off a hundred year old film and I love that about this. I fall in love with them falling in love with each other when I watch this, because it's so romantic, it's so sweet and I think that's one of the most wonderful things about viewing this film is you have the knowledge, too, that these people really did end up together. Now they ended up together 10 years later, but still, this was the beginning of it and it's such a sweet, sweet thing yeah it's not the typical forced rich boy falls in love with average girl.

Brad Shreve: 40:05

I wouldn't say she's poor, but average girl. It is chemistry. From the beginning it's like boom. They belong together.

Tony Maietta: 40:12

It is. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the plot of my Best Girl and don't feel like you have to go, you know not plot point by plot point, but just tell us, give people an idea. So what this?

Brad Shreve: 40:21

movie is is Charles Rogers plays Joe Grant, whose real name is Joe Merrill. Merrill is a five and dime chain you presume it's a large chain because his father is very wealthy and he is engaged to this woman named Millicent and he is working in a Merrill department store as Joe Grant because his father wants him to prove that he can work his way up in a store without the family name, basically to show he can work. So he is undercover and Mary Pickford works in the stockroom a stock girl, as they say.

Tony Maietta: 41:00

Right.

Brad Shreve: 41:01

And that is where they put Joe in the stock room and she trains him, and during training they start liking each other just a little bit exactly now remember, he is still engaged to mellicent, right? Uh. During this whole time, though, she quickly vanishes for a while. Well, they, you just get to watch these scenes of her toying with him.

Tony Maietta: 41:25

Right.

Brad Shreve: 41:26

Yes, she toys with him.

Tony Maietta: 41:28

Well, she's a jazz baby. She's the jazz baby which plays in later when Mary Pickford plays Maggie Johnson who, yes, is a stock girl at Merrill's Department Store one of these great 20s department stores which I would love to go back to to experience because they always were chaos and she's training Joe. She doesn't know he's the boss's son. She thinks he's just some poor schnook that doesn't know how to do anything. He's really kind of incompetent. But boy is he cute, boy is he adorable with those big brown eyes.

Brad Shreve: 41:59

He is adorable. Now Joe and his family live in this large mansion beautiful place. They go to this club. That is gorgeous art deco style. Mary lives in a traditional home. Her father is I think he's a postman. He could be a engineer. Is he a postman?

Tony Maietta: 42:17

yeah, postman, but he doesn't. But he doesn't do anything. No, he doesn't. He. They're all ne'er-do-well.

Brad Shreve: 42:22

They're all ne'er-do-wells, they're all ne'er-do-wells, yeah they pretty much are all, especially her floozy sister Liz, who I just love. Yes, liz is great, liz is great. Liz is the opposite of her mother, who I loved as well played by Sunshine Hart Sunshine.

Tony Maietta: 42:38

God bless Sunshine Hart. What does Maggie's mother do with her days, Brad, what?

Brad Shreve: 42:42

does Maggie's mother do with her days? Brad, do you remember that Maggie's mother has a hobby? Yes, maggie's mother loves to go to funerals. She doesn't know she comes home from a funeral. She's talking about how lovely it was and how much she cried and the father says who died? She said I don't remember their name, but it was beautiful.

Tony Maietta: 43:02

It's cathartic for her.

Brad Shreve: 43:04

It's the most beautiful one I attended this week. Yes, it's cathartic, here's the thing.

Tony Maietta: 43:09

Here's the really interesting thing about my Best Girl and for Mary Pickard's final silent film okay, the summation of her entire silent career, her final silent film it's got some autobiographical digs and the family, the entire Johnson family, is kind of like a little dig to Mary Pickford's real family Because Mary Pickford was always taking care of everybody From the time she first got that role on stage and she said this many times in her life she became the father of the family and in fact Pa Johnson says near the end of the movie it's time I became the father of the family, you know.

Tony Maietta: 43:51

So there's that line in there and, just like with her sister Liz, mary was always taking care of her younger sister, lottie, and her younger brother Jack, because they were always getting in trouble. She was always it wasn't necessarily jail, but she was always paying money to squash some story that was going to be in the press or she was always coming to their rescue. So Maggie is very, very much like Mary Pickford was in real life. It's a really interesting kind of autobiographical slant. Obviously Mary Pickford was not living in this shanty near the highway in the middle of all this, this huge city, but yeah, I always thought that was very interesting, that this definitely has biographical allusions to it.

Brad Shreve: 44:37

And just to set up a little bit more, the story begins. It is in this very busy department store Well, the five and dime, but it looks like today what we would this very busy department store uh, well, the five and dime, but it's it looks like today what we would consider a normal department store today. Right, and she is a stocker, but the store is very busy at the counters. Uh, we see this, and actually I gotta say the opening is where I really knew I was in for a good ride. And she comes up with the stock, which is the pots and pans that we mentioned, and she's told to run the counter when I knew this was going to go somewhere. Good is the cute, funny little things with the customers. Yeah, we had the husband and the very large wife and the little husband next to her, the peanut of a man next to her, and she's shopping for rolling pins. He holds up a small one and she holds up a big one like no, I'm going to buy this one, and you see the fear in his eyes.

Tony Maietta: 45:27

So there's that stereotype.

Brad Shreve: 45:29

Then there's the woman that suggests a toothbrush to this man and he smiles and he's toothless and says not for me. And they were just. I was like this is so cute. Now, the one that really surprised me me, it wasn't really humorous was the black woman that was dressed really nicely in the store. She was shopping for something nice and I'm like is this 1927? I was so happy to see that yeah, yeah, I don't know how often that happened. I didn't expect it, in fact. Uh, maurice and his mom were like what?

Tony Maietta: 46:02

Well, pickford employed many black actors and actresses. I mean this woman, you know she truly I mean what an incredible woman she was. No, I love that scene, that first scene. I want to say that this film was shot by Charles Rocher, who was Pickford's favorite cinematographer and he was the winner of the first Academy Award for cinematography Not for this movie and it's so beautiful. This film, from beginning to end, is just lovely, gorgeous to look at, and I think you know that lends a big reason to why we find it so romantic. It's so romantically shot.

Tony Maietta: 46:37

Silent films were often tinted. I don't know if you noticed that, brad, when you were watching this, but if a shot, if a scene was to take place outside, it was usually tinted blue. If there was going to be some trouble somewhere, the team was tinted red. So, again, another way that the filmmakers communicated with the audience the mood of a scene. So they didn't need dialogue, because they would. They would do these types of things, and this film is so beautiful, uh, in the cinematography I I think that's great and I love that first scene because it shows you though it's this boom economy, these department stores, and that is what you call a star entrance, your star coming in carrying these pans and then losing her underwear. It's a star entrance, yeah, and I love, love, love that.

Brad Shreve: 47:27

It set the tone like within seconds.

Tony Maietta: 47:29

It did, it did and so, yeah. So what happens is that Mary begins training Joe and they begin to fall in love. And there are two scenes in this movie that I, especially, I just adore, and the first one is the love scene in the packing crate. Do you remember? Do you remember that?

Brad Shreve: 47:48

scene. Yes, I most definitely remember. I like the scene when she's on the truck first. But we'll get to that if we talk about the packing crate.

Tony Maietta: 47:55

Well, you talk about the truck scene. I think that's a lovely scene.

Brad Shreve: 47:58

So the scene is Maggie is leaving work and she gets a ride on the truck. So she's sitting on the back of this not a truck, a moving van yeah, open moving van. And he is standing outside the entrance and he's talking to some women and she wants his attention. So, as they're driving away, she knocks I believe it was her purse. Yes, off the truck and she's riding away. Curse, off the truck and she's riding away. It was awfully trusting of her to assume that he was going to see this, but he saw it happen. He grabs it and he's chasing after the truck. And I love this because it's not one of these old where they're rolling and you can see the set is scrolling Right right.

Tony Maietta: 48:38

They were in a real street.

Brad Shreve: 48:39

This was a real street, a real busy street In downtown LA. Yes, and he's chasing after her. In fact I could see some of the landmarks that I know existed from that time from studying la. Uh, he's chasing after her, he catches up, he hands her the purse and he backs up kind of, and you know they wave away and then she knocks something else off the truck and again he has to, and I think that happened three times.

Tony Maietta: 49:02

Yeah, because she wants him to catch up with her and finally climb in the damn truck with her, which he does.

Brad Shreve: 49:08

So finally he jumps in the truck with her and they go over what must have been the most bumpy road in Los Angeles because they're being tossed and turned and he's like, let's go somewhere comfortable and it's so sweet. He puts her on I don't know, it's like a burlap bag or something, I can't remember exactly and he takes this ring off a barrel and puts it on her head. It looked like it had nails. I was a bit nervous for her at that time.

Brad Shreve: 49:31

Yeah, he puts it on her head like a queen and she crowns him with a broom. It is so adorable.

Tony Maietta: 49:35

It really is. It's a moving truck.

Brad Shreve: 49:44

Yes, that's what's so funny is.

Tony Maietta: 49:46

They're on the back of a moving truck and they're doing this adorable little place and she has no clue that he's this rich kid.

Tony Maietta: 49:52

I love that scene I love, but to me, I love this. The next love scene is the scene in the packing crate, and it's so beautifully shot, so beautifully shot. And it was during the filming of this scene that cinematographer Charles Rocher said he first noticed something other than collegiality between the two of them, because he couldn't get them to come out of the crate. I'm amazed they didn't close the crate. I mean so yeah, and you can see that when you're watching the movie. You're like she was a brilliant, brilliant actress, but some things aren't acting, and you can see that in her eyes.

Tony Maietta: 50:30

And it's so beautifully shot because we start on a really tight shot of the two of them and we're not really sure where that we are, and then the camera pulls back to reveal that they're in a packing crate in a warehouse. Well, not before he says this cafe is better than the Ritz, exactly, in a warehouse. Well, not before he says this cafe is better than the Ritz, exactly, exactly. So we think, oh, they're in some romantic cafe and no, they're in a packing crate in the middle of a warehouse. But they've created this own little romantic picnic area and what's so wonderful about that is that they're in their own world. They're oblivious to the world around them, and I think you know the way they look at each other and then they have that kiss.

Tony Maietta: 51:04

Think you know the way they look at each other and then they have that kiss, and that kiss is so real and can I tell you as an actor okay, actors kind of do that if you're really attracted to somebody, you know you might hold the kiss a little bit longer than the character should. Uh, because you're human and you know you have emotion and that's so obvious there. So the fact that Charles Rocher couldn't get them out of the packing crate is indicative of what was happening in their real lives. The second scene I want to talk about that I love it's kind of a famous scene is the walk in the rain. What did you think of that scene? Do you know which scene I'm talking about? When they're walking back and it's pouring rain and they're walking through the city and it's nighttime and they're walking down the street.

Brad Shreve: 51:48

Remember that scene, and I'm wondering if this movie was the one that set the stage for love stories to always be in a rainy day.

Tony Maietta: 51:56

Well, you know back then and Gene Kelly has said this when it rains in movies it pours because it has to for the camera to pick up the rain. So I mean he talks about how he was drenched after singing in the rain. Because they had to do it so many times and because they really so that rain was falling. But what's amazing about that scene and that scene's often used whenever anybody wants to talk about romance in silent films, they always show that scene Because it's a stunningly choreographed scene, because these two again are truly in their own world. They're walking across a very busy street in the pouring rain and they are narrowly missing, getting hit by buses and bicycles. It's a stunning scene. You're like, how did they let Mary Pickford do this?

Brad Shreve: 52:48

I mean, she's almost hit, but just in the nick of time he pulls her back and they're totally oblivious to it. That's why I was thinking they would never do that today. They would make sure there was a stunt double.

Tony Maietta: 52:53

Oh, absolutely. I mean. One false move and an entire industry would have been out of work. Oh yeah, I know, think of that. That's kind of crazy, right? It's nuts, it's nuts, it's nuts. It's a beautifully tinted scene. It's tinted blue, yes, to indicate the time of day. It's such a romantic, wonderful, wonderful scene. It really is so. Anyway, I really love those are my two favorite scenes the crate and that walk in the rain. I think are wonderful. What are some of your favorite scenes, brad?

Brad Shreve: 53:21

The other scene that I really enjoyed, because it was so cute, was when he took Maggie to his home I can't remember, I think it's his home, but his parents' home To the mansion and he said you know, the company's slogan is everyone at Merrill's is family, or something of that nature. And he said let's see if that's true and go to their home for lunch or for dinner. Yeah, and she's like what? Yeah, and she's game at first, because you know silly play. But when they get there she's very timid. She's like wait a minute, this is really their home.

Tony Maietta: 53:54

Yeah, yeah.

Brad Shreve: 53:55

So he rings the doorbell and the butler comes in and he says hi, we're employees at Merrill's and we want to know if we can eat dinner here. And he gives the butler a wink a couple of times and the butler figures out he's playing a game and they go in there and finally she's like OK, I'm buying into this. This is fun Because the butler she says is it really true that Merrill employees can just come here for dinner or any time? And the butler says he looks at Joe and says yes, in fact, one is here almost every day. So that's what she goes with it, you know. And she said let's pretend that we're Mr and Mrs Merrill and we live here. And she goes up and she comes strolling down the stairs and talks about she made dinner for him. It's just so sweet because she doesn't have a clue that she is in his home and she's pretending that they are a couple in this home. It shows his fun-loving spirit, despite his hoity-toity parents. Yeah, they're playing, especially his mother.

Tony Maietta: 54:54

They're playing house basically, they're playing house.

Brad Shreve: 54:57

It's so fun and I was waiting for something to go wrong.

Tony Maietta: 55:00

She's talking about the thing she's going to cook him for dinner and it's just a wonderful romantic scene, even though you know he's supposed to be on a date with his fiance and his parents. Yes, so you kind of have to overlook the fact that joe's a little bit of a son of a bitch with his fiance, that he's standing her up for this date with maggie in the house, and then, of course happens, the parents come home with a fiance and let me say.

Brad Shreve: 55:26

you just brought up one of the two things that bothered me in the movie, and they're two very minor things. You know, I've got to find something. I was very disappointed about this part. I first thought, okay, millicent's going to be a royal bitch, which I kind of didn't want, but at least it would have sat better. The other one was I wanted somehow for her and Joe both Millicent and Joe to realize they were kind of being paired together because of the wealth of their families and they really just weren't made for each other. I wanted it to work out okay for Millicent. Instead, millicent was just like hit the road, honey.

Tony Maietta: 55:59

Well, it's a heartbreaking scene and you know what breaks my heart is Pickford in that scene.

Brad Shreve: 56:15

Well, it's a heartbreaking scene and you know what breaks my heart is Pickford in that scene, when she finds out the truth that not only is Joe not Joe Grant, but Joe Merrill.

Tony Maietta: 56:21

The son of her boss of Merrill's department store and he's engaged. And what she tries?

Brad Shreve: 56:23

to do, to sacrifice her history with him for his benefit. It's heartbreaking.

Tony Maietta: 56:26

It's again, again, a primer. I'm sorry, go ahead. I know it's a. It's a primer in brilliant film acting. Just to watch mary pickford's face and the emotions that come over the sudden like what wait, you're who? And then to find out he's engaged. I mean, you've been stringing me on this whole time. What a creep, you know. But she doesn't overdo it, no, you get her heartbreak and your heart breaks for her as she runs away in the rain. It's a heartbreaking scene. It's a heartbreaking scene and you really hate him for a minute. You for taking maggie on this on this ride you do, and I think she handled it well.

Brad Shreve: 57:06

I mean, she could have just slapped his face and said you cad, and stormed out, and I think the way they handled it with her uh, pretending she was a gold digging hussy uh well, yeah, so, so that's so.

Tony Maietta: 57:20

So what happens is is that joe is in love with maggie and he and he tells, he tells his father, he his fiance I'm in love with this woman. This is the way it is. So Maggie's at home and Joe's father, mr Merrill, robert Merrill, comes and he tries to buy her off. He tries to buy Maggie off and he offers her $10,000 to leave his son alone. Now, just for context, $10,000 today is like equivalent. $10,000 then is the equivalent of $182,000 today. So he's offering her $182,000 to leave his son alone. And what do you remember? What happens when? When he offers her the money?

Brad Shreve: 58:06

Brad, yes, she is initially somewhat timid, but she accepts it. Accepts it but it's not. She doesn't accept it because she's greedy. She accepts it because she has a family to take care of.

Tony Maietta: 58:18

Yeah, she's heartbroken. She's heartbroken, so she puts on this whole big facade. When Joe shows up, that she actually took him in. You know that. She's been playing him all along. She's trying to give up. She's saying I'm going to live a jazz life, a jazz life. And she puts on this record. And the record she puts on is called red hot mama. And so she pretends to be this, this jazz baby. You know she, she smears her lipstick on and she takes a cigarette out, but she can't quite figure out how to smoke the cigarette and so she's not convincing no, she starts dancing and mock, laughing at joe.

Tony Maietta: 58:59

It's yeah, it's very, it's very extreme and silly, but you know what? It's heartbreaking at the same time. But Joe is not buying any of this. He knows it's not true. And Joe's father is still there, and Mary won't take his text. She just wants Joe to move on with his life, so she can move on with her life.

Tony Maietta: 59:19

And when, eventually, though, she keeps trying to do this, and eventually she, she just can't go on anymore, because she looks at joe and she sees the love in his eyes and she just breaks down and oh, she's so sweet. She breaks down and she says I'm not a bad girl, joe, I didn't mean a word. I said, you know, and it's just, it's's so, it's so sweet. And they come together, and that's when the father takes the check back. Did you notice that he takes the check back? So he's like, well, give me the check back if you're going to be together. But he gives them his blessing, the blessing to be together, and so, at the end, they end up together. But now, here's what. Now, here's what is interesting, here's what confuses me about this movie.

Brad Shreve: 1:00:09

Okay, I want to hear it.

Tony Maietta: 1:00:10

So so they're together and they're, they're going. Joe's going on a boat trip and the ship is about to leave. So they have to quick pack up maggie's things to go away with Joe on this boat. Except one thing they forgot they're not married. So they're in this car and they're racing to get to the boat. And this is a very primitive process, shot racing to get to the boat, which is just. It was a new technique at the time and it's obviously they hadn't worked out all the kinks, but people believed at the time.

Tony Maietta: 1:00:42

So they get to the boat and we're saying goodbye to them at the boat and again you're thinking but wait a minute, you two aren't married. I guess we're assuming that the ship's captain will marry them, because if you notice, the last musical notes of the film are the wedding march. As the film fades out, it goes duh, that's how you're like. Okay, it's implied they're going to get married on the ship, the ship's captain will marry them and that's the end of the movie. They sail off to be together and married by the captain and live happily ever after. And that is my best girl.

Brad Shreve: 1:01:20

You know, I think the captain marrying them was just an automatic thought process.

Brad Shreve: 1:01:24

For me, I just it's where my brain went. But the one thing that I thought was funny and askew in this was that they got to her house and you know they have the whole issue with the family and the father finally taking charge and telling liz he's going to straighten things up and he spanks her as a matter of fact, and yeah, and then he tells mother she's no longer going to go to funerals, he's going to straighten things up and he spanks her as a matter of fact.

Tony Maietta: 1:01:44

And then he tells Mother.

Brad Shreve: 1:01:45

she's no longer going to go to funerals. He's like I'm the father, I'm going to be the man now.

Tony Maietta: 1:01:51

I'm going to be the father of the family is what he says. So when Pa Johnson, who's played by Lucian Littlefield, pa Johnson, finally grows some cojones here and takes charge, it's because Maggie says and this is a title card, I can't marry you, joe. My family needs me more than you do. And that is when Pa Johnson stands up and says, like hell, we do, and that was a title card. Did that shock you?

Brad Shreve: 1:02:26

Not at first. I read it and started going on with movie and I said wait a minute, I actually rewound it. I'm like, wow, in that year they said profanity it's crazy.

Tony Maietta: 1:02:34

Right, well, it was. This was 1927 and the official hayes code had not been written yet. But there was, there was still regulation. But I, to tell you, that still took me back. You know, profanity in a Mary Pickford film on a title card. It's like take that Shirley Temple. It's crazy.

Brad Shreve: 1:02:52

It's crazy, I know, and also crazy when they decide that Joe and Maggie are going to catch this ship. To what was that? I think Hawaii.

Tony Maietta: 1:03:02

Yeah, yeah.

Brad Shreve: 1:03:03

They say we have 10 minutes to get there. Yeah, so they have 10 minutes. And in that time she goes into her bedroom, she changes her clothes and she then packs her bags. They then get in the car, they then drive to the ship. They must be awfully close to the dock.

Tony Maietta: 1:03:20

Well, they didn't live in the best neighborhood.

Brad Shreve: 1:03:23

So probably. Well, it didn't seem that bad. And now I'm going to bring up the one thing I'm going to give negative about this film and it has to do with Pa Johnson. So I'm glad you brought him up. Lucian Littlefield yes, I don't know his acting history. I meant to look it up before we started. No-transcript. And there is a character on the show I can't stand her. When I'm watching her, I'm watching somebody acting. There's the same thing with this father the whole time. I'm like he's terrible, he's terrible. Now, maybe others may disagree, but I wasn't fond of him worked until the the 50s.

Tony Maietta: 1:04:44

I think he was in television, you know, and that's that's the character, comedy too, you know he's, he's painted very broadly. But but I, you know, I get what you're saying, I get it it's. It's just a bit like you know, it's like some of the other conceits in this movie, it's it's theatrical, that style. Again, he's a bit of a caricature. You just kind of have to say, okay, I mean, not everybody is as real as pickford was. There's still a little bit of that leftover air quote, you know, silent film acting that Pickford kind of blew away. So I get what you're saying. It's, you know, the mother is also very funny and very broad too.

Brad Shreve: 1:05:17

I thought the Mother was good and actually I thought everybody else was really good. I just really liked the Mother. I think they're all good. I will say I can complain about Lucien, but he has 294 acting credits. Obviously some like him yeah.

Tony Maietta: 1:05:34

Well, I think he was around since 1914. So he was around almost as long as Pickford Do you want to now talk about? I know this movie is from 1927, so record keeping not necessarily the most accurate, but do you have numbers on this film?

Brad Shreve: 1:05:51

I do, and that was something I was a little concerned about because I had to search and the numbers were a little suspect to me and I wasn't expecting anything to be like they are today. Where you? I won't say to the penny, but they have a pretty good idea of how much these movies cost and how much they made. So the numbers that I can find in this movie was it cost $480,000. And it made about a million dollars or a little over a million dollars, so not shabby. As I said, the million dollars is equal to about 19 million dollars today. It was directed by sam taylor and he started directing in 1924, so this is only his third year of act of directing, and what a great film for that time. And he was active up until the 1940s he was, he was.

Tony Maietta: 1:06:37

Look at you with your sam trivia.

Brad Shreve: 1:06:41

Yeah, he did some great writing. He actually did Well. He wrote some things after the 40s, but only one or two things.

Tony Maietta: 1:06:48

There's a very funny, famous story about Sam Taylor in writing, but I'm going to tell you because you know what you brought him up. I was going to skip it, but you brought up Sam Taylor. So yeah, Sam Taylor was a very accomplished comedy director and writer. He worked a lot with Harold Lloyd and he worked a lot with Pickford. During this time he directed this film, he directed her next film, Coquette, and he directed her second film, her second talkie, her talkie after Coquette, which was a version of the Taming of the Shrew which she made with her husband, Douglas Fairbanks version of the Taming of the Shrew which she made with her husband, Douglas Fairbanks. And there's a very famous story about one of the first screenings of the film, because Sam Taylor was not only the director of it, he also contributed to the screenplay, like directors do. And allegedly the opening title card went up and said the Taming of the Shrew by William Shakespeare, with additional dialogue by Sam Taylor. Now, that might be apocryphal, but that's just one of those funny, funny stories about Hollywood, oh, Hollywood.

Brad Shreve: 1:07:55

But that actually may be fair to Will.

Tony Maietta: 1:07:57

Yeah.

Brad Shreve: 1:07:59

If Sam threw some words in there that Shakespeare didn't?

Tony Maietta: 1:08:01

write. Well, you know, I think it's the, with additional dialogue by Sam Taylor after the William Shakespeare, so anyway. So yeah, my Best Girl was a hit. As I said, it was Pickford's last silent film because, as I said before, the jazz singer was released the month before my Best Girl and changed everything.

Tony Maietta: 1:08:23

So Pickford, unlike some of these other people, pickford was not afraid of talkies at all. I mean, she started on stage so she knew she could talk. So she was one of the very first major stars to jump into talkies with Coquette in 1929. And she won the Oscar for Best Actress, the second Oscar for Best Actress that was given. And also Coquette was her biggest moneymaker ever, which was not unusual with Silent Stars, because audiences, as you can imagine, were very curious about what they sounded like. So their first talkies were almost always huge hits. It was the second one that was the real test and her second one, the Taming of the Shrew.

Tony Maietta: 1:09:01

As I said, it was a bit of a disappointment. It's actually a good film. It's not a bad film, it's just. You know, it's an early talkie and audiences were used to these lush, beautiful moving films with a camera swooping all over the place and, you know, walking in the rain and suddenly place, and you know, walking in the rain and suddenly it's all one shot, the camera doesn't move, it's static, dialogue static, so it's very stiff.

Tony Maietta: 1:09:30

And Pickford, despite her genius at film acting, did have some trouble with Coquette. She won the Oscar, but that was really for her career achievement, I think, that she wanted. And after that she just kind of seemed to lose energy. She made a few more films, a couple of which I really liked. She did a fun film called Kiki, which I think is a lot of fun, and her last film was a picture called Secrets in 1933, which was also a very good film. But she just seemed to be winding down, you know. But I mean, give her a break. She'd been making films since 1909. And she was getting older and there was a whole generation of younger actresses coming up behind her nipping at her heels. But you know, I think more than that, mary Pickford, more than any other star probably, was emblematic of the silent film era I want to jump in, though.

Brad Shreve: 1:10:24

It sounds like this transition was very similar to when somebody transitions from stage to screen or the other way around well, you have to learn a different style of acting.

Tony Maietta: 1:10:33

Yeah, so these people who who had been acting with their faces and acting with their, their eyes, you know, as pickford, they either had to return to using their voices or they had to learn how to do it completely. Now, pickford had been on stage so she knew. She just had to remind herself, but I mean, she had been making silent films for over 20 years, so she was a little bit rusty. She's still good in CoCat, don't get me wrong.

Tony Maietta: 1:11:08

It's just the technology of the time and the fact that it is very static. So it's it's kind of you, it's kind of difficult to sit through now, um, but you know, also, at this time she she had a lot of personal things happen to her. She know, you know, right after my best girl, her mother, who was her rock, charlotte, was with her entire life. She was diagnosed with cancer and she died, and then her marriage to Douglas Fairbanks was unraveling and then I guess most tragic of all is she fell prey to an old family disease which also her father and her sister and her brother fell prey to, and that's alcoholism. And she unfortunately spent many of the last years of her life holed up in a room at Pickfair, drinking and isolating.

Brad Shreve: 1:11:49

Oh no, I didn't know that.

Tony Maietta: 1:11:51

Yeah, I mean it's so sad because this woman invented Hollywood. I mean there's a book called the Woman who Invented Hollywood. I mean, right, she did, and she ended up incredibly rich because I think she owned half of Beverly Hills, but it's still kind of sad. But before all that sadness, in 1936, after her marriage to Fairbanks ended which was very, very difficult for her, but who was there for her? Her good friend, buddy Rogers. And they reconnected and they got married and they adopted two children and Buddy Rogers eventually gave up his film career and he had a very successful career as a bandleader and a musician for the rest of his life. But here's something interesting so, like a lot of other silent film icons, when it came time to cast the role of Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard, billy Wilder offered her the part and she's like yeah, thanks a lot, billy.

Tony Maietta: 1:12:53

No thanks Too real. She had no desire to do that and she didn't need to. As I said, she owned half of Beverly Hills. She still had a hand in United Artists and she was the last of the original four founders to sell her shares in UA in 1956. And then she had her philanthropy, as I said, the Motion Picture Home. She did a lot of charity and she did radio occasionally but she just kind of faded into the background to the point where nobody would really ever see her. And you know there's stories about people, stories about near the end of her life, about people coming to pay her a visit at PicFair and they wouldn't see her. Buddy would come in and bring a tape recorder from upstairs and put it on the table and play a personal greeting from Mary to her guests. Oh, wow.

Tony Maietta: 1:13:49

Because she just didn't want to leave her room. She was just in that alcohol haze. So her last air quotes public appearance was in 1976. She received an honorary Oscar and it wasn't really a public appearance because the Oscars actually went to Picfair. The mountain went to Mohammed. She didn't leave Picfair. You know, and it's on YouTube. It's very sad because she looks like, well, she's propped up in this chair like a Muppet. It's just sad and you think God, this woman who created this entire industry. It was just sad, it's a sad ending.

Brad Shreve: 1:14:32

Have they made a movie about this? Because this is a really sad rise and fall story.

Tony Maietta: 1:14:37

Well, they kind of made a film called Sunset Boulevard.

Tony Maietta: 1:14:41

Oh well, yeah, well, yeah, I mean, you know, not really the mary pickford story because, yeah, but still, it's still sad, though it's still sad, you know, this woman who has such energy and was so vital and was and, as I said, created this entire industry, ends up kind of alone in a room drinking, uh, but anyway, she died on May 29th 1979. And Buddy Rogers remarried and when Buddy Rogers died his widow got Mary's Oscar for Coquette because she inherited his things. You know, and this happened a lot. You know, the second spouse always gets the first spouse's things.

Tony Maietta: 1:15:22

So, that's why today, if you win an Oscar, you have to sign a release before they give it to you that says when you die, it goes back to the Academy.

Brad Shreve: 1:15:31

Because people were auctioning them off. I've heard those stories.

Tony Maietta: 1:15:34

Yeah, yeah. But there's one wonderful thing about Buddy Rogers is that Buddy Rogers, as I said, was always there for her. He was her rock through those last, very difficult final years and to the end of his life. Whenever anyone would ask him about Mary, buddy was always very effusive about Mary. He was always very complimentary and very loving in his comments and he would always say at the end of the conversation and you know what? She's still my best girl. Isn't that beautiful? That is beautiful. It's very sweet, it is. It is Well, brad, wow, that was my best girl. We talked a lot for a silent movie.

Brad Shreve: 1:16:16

Yeah, and you know I could go on and on about the rest of the cast, but I think we've covered a lot. Yeah, we have, we covered a lot. You know I can go on and on about the rest of the cast, but I think we've covered a lot.

Tony Maietta: 1:16:22

Yeah, we have. We've covered a lot. You know I can't tell you how much it means to me talking about this film for my birthday. It's the best birthday present I could get To talk about this film and talk about this woman that I just adore and I really urge people go watch a Mary Pickford film, Watch my Best Girl, Watch some of her later silence. You will be stunned by them and by this woman.

Brad Shreve: 1:16:46

She was a true, true original and genius, you're right and it is in public domain so you can go. It's all over on YouTube. Go watch it guilt free. But I want to give a warning on which ones you pick, because there are a lot of them that have no music. It's just silent, and I watched this film three times, and the second time I was going to watch it, I picked up one of the other channels than what I did originally and it was silent and it was very difficult and I ended up having to turn it off and go back to a different channel where they had the music again.

Brad Shreve: 1:17:19

It makes a big difference. Make sure you have the music, yeah.

Tony Maietta: 1:17:23

Absolutely Silent. Films were never silent, Exactly. Don't do that to yourself people. Yes, and if you get the opportunity to see it in a theater? I mean, that's the first time I saw it was in a theater. My God, that's just amazing. That would be lovely. Yeah, it's even better.

Brad Shreve: 1:17:41

It's your birthday, but I want to thank you for the gift, because now I want to go watch some more Mary Pickford films, and I never had a desire before.

Tony Maietta: 1:17:48

Well, I'll send you some links. I'll send you some links. Please do Good. Well, brad, I guess in that case there's only one thing left to say, but I don't want to say it. So let's not say goodbye, let's just say If we were on video, you would see Tony holding up a title card that says Au revoir and to that.

Brad Shreve: 1:18:37

I say no, let's just say goodbye, that's all folks.