Brad Shreve: 0:00

Tony, before we get started, I got to tell you it's kind of embarrassing Well, it's a little personal about what I did while we were on hiatus.

Tony Maietta: 0:09

Okay, you want to share that, all right.

Brad Shreve: 0:11

Yeah, you know things have been really difficult, stressful. I've been depressed and full of anxiety, so I had to check myself into the Psychoneurotic Institute for the very, very nervous.

Tony Maietta: 0:23

Were you suffering from high anxiety, which is actually a medical term? It's become a medical term for severe anxiety, high anxiety.

Brad Shreve: 0:33

I know, when I was trying to find the movie information on the movie, I kept having to put movie after it because I kept getting all these medical websites. I'm like what the hell?

Tony Maietta: 0:44

That's so funny. The Institute is really very, very nervous.

Brad Shreve: 0:48

Good to see you again.

Tony Maietta: 0:49

Good to see you again. We're back, season two. Listen, we're glad you're here with us. We're glad you're here too. Thank you for coming back and joining us for season two of Going Hollywood.

Tony Maietta: 0:59

You know, that didn't seem like a long hiatus Didn't feel long, I mean and nothing happened at all. You know, nothing much happened at all the first few months of 2025. Let me tell you, the world isn't ending. It just feels like it. We are here, we are back. We ain't going anywhere. I feel that in so many levels, but it is. It's good to be back, it's good to see you, brad. I'm very excited about our season premiere of and we hinted a little bit about it. We talked, we've been talking about it and we decided, yes, it was going to be. The unofficial title I think we're calling it is the Battle of the Brooks, but it's not a battle, because we both love both of these movies. You love one more than I do and I love one more than you do, which is great. But yes, indeed, this is our season premiere Mel Brooks. We're celebrating Mel Brooks and we are talking about what's the first one we're talking about, brad.

Brad Shreve: 1:56

It's a movie I've seen once or twice. Oh, blazing Saddles, that's what it is.

Tony Maietta: 2:01

He wore a blazing saddle. Okay, I'm sing, I'm not gonna sing. Uh and not versus, but and one of my favorite movies high anxiety high anxiety there you go. Both have theme songs, both written by mel brooks. Mel brooks sings the theme song for high anxiety. He doesn't sing the theme song for blazing saddle and they're both really good.

Tony Maietta: 2:26

Oh, he's a great songwriter. He won you know the producers, he himself won three Tonys that night for the producers. When we did our top five episodes last year, we dipped into both of these films a little bit, because High Anxiety was on mine and Blazing Saddles was one of yours, and that's when I said maybe someday we'll talk about both of them together and that's what we're doing.

Brad Shreve: 2:47

Absolutely.

Tony Maietta: 2:48

That's what we're doing. So, but before we start, can we just talk a little bit about Mel Brooks? Sure, I just want to say something about Mel Brooks. He's 98 years old Okay, he will be 99 on June 28th and I had the fortune, the good fortune, to see Mel at the Peabody Awards last year, where he got an honorary award, and he is just as funny and sharp and Mel Brooksian as ever, and he's just as adorable too. I think he's so, he's so adorable and I just I mean, what a career, what an incredible. An EGOT winner. Okay, we know what an EGOT is. Right, he's one of 2,110 years of being EGOT. An EGOT is, for people who don't know, an Emmy Award, a Grammy Award, an Academy Award, oscar or a Tony and a Tony Award. He's won all of them multiple times in some of them.

Brad Shreve: 3:40

No surprise. And on top of all that, you just can't help but love him. When you watch him interviewed, you're like, okay, this is definitely the guy that made these movies.

Tony Maietta: 3:49

Yeah, he's such a sweetheart and he was married to the incredible Anne Bancroft. What a pair. You know it's funny because when you first hear that, I think most people's first reaction that Anne Bancroft and Mel Brooks are together. But then when you get to know Anne Bancroft and you get to see what a nut job she was in the best way, a funny, sharp, brilliant woman, then you get it. You get because she loved the humor.

Tony Maietta: 4:23

They had very similar humor. And Mel Brooks also has a very serious side. You know, after the success of these early films in the 70s, he created Brooks Films and Brooks Films made okay, let's just talk about this for a minute. Brooks Films created the Elephant man, francis the Fly. So he made Brooks Films because he thought people would immediately think, oh, a Mel Brooks. Mel Brooks produces this and it must be a comedy and he really wanted to do serious films. So these are both incredibly accomplished people. Mel still going strong at 98. God love him. I hope he makes it to 100 because he is just a true gem.

Brad Shreve: 5:00

Yes, he is. And do you know about Mel's son? This is something I learned just recently.

Tony Maietta: 5:05

Max Brooks.

Brad Shreve: 5:06

World War Z is a fun movie Not the best movie in the world, but I like to watch it because it's a lot of fun. I like disaster films and end of the world films I don't know why, especially if I'm feeling sad, but the book which I have not read has had glowing reviews from fans. So World War Z, the novel, was written by Max Brooks, who is their son. Yeah, exactly, Talk about different.

Tony Maietta: 5:30

Well, yeah, but he, you know, I guess his mother, mel, said that Anne always knew he was a writer. He was dyslexic when he was growing up and she gave up her career for a while to help him deal with the dyslexia and to educate him and educate his teachers and he became a New York Times bestselling author. So I mean pretty good gene pool to come from. First of all, you come from Anne Bancroft and Mel Brooks. Yeah, it's pretty extraordinary. He was in. He had a small bit part in their movie To Be or Not To Be. Yeah, they did it together, but he decided he was not an actor, he was definitely a writer.

Tony Maietta: 6:08

And that was the only film they did together, isn't it well?

Brad Shreve: 6:10

she had a cameo in silent movie. Okay, yes, yes, and when you?

Tony Maietta: 6:11

see them in to be or not to be. You totally get it. You totally get why these people are together, because they are at the same level of insanity, of crazy. And bancroft could also just turn around and do play a nun in agnes of god. Or do you know one of my favorite movies, garbo talks. She was just an incredible actress and I mean, but you really get.

Tony Maietta: 6:29

She, one of Brooks's films, was one of also another movie that I love called Fatso, that Anne wrote and directed, oh, dom DeLuise. It was one of Brooks films, first films, and I would love to talk about Fatso sometime. If we ever just have, let's just do one real quick, because it's not, you know, it doesn't have quite the heft of the Elephant man or Francis, but it's a really fun movie. And it's a movie I have a soft spot for because it was one that some of my dear friends and I just would laugh and laugh and laugh about. But we're not talking about Fatso. We're going to start off with Blazing Saddles from 1974. And, brad, since this is one of your top movies, I think you should start us off. I'll give you some background, but I want you to start it off. Why do you love this movie so much.

Brad Shreve: 7:19

As I said in our top five films that we did, said in our top five films that we did, it is non-stop funny. There are some bomb jokes in there, but mel has them coming at you so fast. Right, you miss them, because the next one is hysterical it's timeless, which I'm gonna. When we get to high anxiety. High anxiety is not timeless, I learned that recently. But uh, blazing saddles is totally timeless. It does make people squirm. I've got. Have I talked about reaction videos on youtube?

Brad Shreve: 7:49

you said you were watching something yeah, I've totally become addicted to them. I thought they were the stupidest thing on earth. Well, I watched the ones where they watch blazing saddles and they are. So these younger kids are so, so uncomfortable with the language and the the whole thing that I think we got it back then. It still made people uncomfortable, but we got it. In fact, burt Gilliam who played I can't think of his name, he was the sidekick to Slim Pickens.

Tony Maietta: 8:17

Yes.

Brad Shreve: 8:18

Okay, cleveland Little had to pull him aside and say it's okay to say the N word. Call me that, just let me have it. That's this film, right.

Tony Maietta: 8:27

No.

Brad Shreve: 8:28

But he was so uncomfortable he didn't want to do it.

Tony Maietta: 8:30

Well, I think we've come so far that we've also drifted back. It's kind of interesting to think that things could happen in 1974 in this film. I think All in the Family is a perfect example of that.

Tony Maietta: 8:43

I don't know that All in the Family would fly on TV today, maybe on HBO or Netflix or something like that, but I don't think on network TV, and it's just. It's shocking to us. I'm shocked when I watch Blazing Saddles again, in opposed to the F bomb, which I love and I'll say continually the rest of my life, I have no problem saying fuck, but the F word, but you have to look at it. It's challenging because you have to look at it as what was he trying to do? And we said this in our top five episode he was not only taking a stab at racism, he was taking a bayonet to racism, and that's how we had to do it. It wouldn't have worked otherwise.

Tony Maietta: 9:34

No, it wouldn't have worked, it wouldn't have worked.

Brad Shreve: 9:35

In fact it went on network television. I don't know if you ever saw the network version.

Tony Maietta: 9:39

I've seen scenes from it.

Brad Shreve: 9:40

Oh my God. Well, why would you have that? On network television? They cut out everything. All the language was cut out. I think you were going to mention the farting scene.

Tony Maietta: 9:50

Yeah, the campfire scene. Yeah, they took out the sound.

Brad Shreve: 9:54

Have you seen it?

Tony Maietta: 9:54

Yes. These guys are just standing up and down with no sound. It's like weird choreography. It's like, why are they getting up there? There's no sound. It's hysterical that they did that. It's hysterical that they did that. Why bother showing it? If you're going to, you're going to take the teeth out of it. It's just, it is what it is. I mean, I really really appreciate it, obviously. Um, sometimes for those reasons, I think that's why I prefer high anxiety. I feel like high anxiety is just a little kinder and gentler even though there's some real potty humor in high anxiety.

Tony Maietta: 10:27

And even though there's some, it's just, it's a kinder and gentler Mel Brooks, and maybe that's why I appreciate it more. But you can't deny, first of all, blazing Saddles was a tremendous success. Tremendous success. I know we'll probably go over the stats, but didn't it make something like $90 million on a budget of $2 or $3 million?

Brad Shreve: 10:50

About $2.5 million, and the number I kept seeing over and over again was $119 million.

Tony Maietta: 10:55

Well, that sounds about right. I know it was damn close to $100 million.

Brad Shreve: 10:58

Now I saw on some sites that it was the highest-growing film of 1974. Others I saw that it was a towering Inferno. I think you told me before it was towering Inferno.

Tony Maietta: 11:09

I believe it's towering Inferno.

Tony Maietta: 11:11

Yeah, but they must've been close but it made 119, $119 million on a budget of 2 million. $2 million it costs to make this and it made 119 million. So I mean, how do you? You can't argue with that kind of success. And this is what's important about it. And just a little bit of the backstory before we talk about the movie, cause you know that's what I do. Mel Brooks was at the point in his career as, as we, as we know, mel Brooks started working for Sid Caesar, your show of shows, caesar's hour. He was with that incredible group, incredible group of writers Neil Simon, danny Simon, later Woody Allen, larry Galbart I mean, these people were all in one room writing comedy.

Brad Shreve: 11:49

It's amazing.

Tony Maietta: 11:50

It's incredible and there have been. You know, my favorite year another Brooks film is kind of based on that experience. Laughter on the 23rd Floor was Neil Simon's take on that experience. So it's kind of a mythic thing. Mel then later created with Buck Henry. He created Get Smart, which is a wonderful series.

Tony Maietta: 12:09

The 2,000-year-old man, I think, was probably his first big splash as a performer, which he did with Carl Reiner. But by the time it came to Blazing Saddles he had done two films. He'd done the Producers and he'd done the Twelve Chairs, and Mel said both of which he made about $25,000 from they were critical successes. He won an Oscar for the Producers. So he said I was at a point in my career where I was critically acclaimed but I had no money and this was a problem. He said so.

Tony Maietta: 12:39

He was walking down 57th Street in New York and it had just rained. He was staring down into the gutter at the water, going through the gutter and he heard someone say hey, mel, and he turned around and it was his agent. His agent was David Bigelman. Someday we'll talk about David Bigelman and Freddie Fields because they were two real Hollywood characters. They had this agency called Creative Management Associates. Cma was their agency and they represented all the big ones. They represented Judy first, and Judy used to call them Leopold and Loeb, so it gives you an idea about Biegelman and Fields.

Tony Maietta: 13:13

Anyway he said, mel, what's going on? And I just left you a message. I have a movie. Come back to my office let's talk. I think I have a movie for you. So they went back to Biegelman's office and he said I have a script that I think you'd be really, really good for. It's called Tex-X. It's by a writer named Andrew Bergman. And Mel said you know what, david? I only work on my own projects. I only write indirect things I create. And Biegelman said I think I can get you $100,000. And Mel said let me rephrase that I usually only work on things I write and create. So anyway, mel read Tex-X. He loved it. It was. What was extraordinary about Tex-X is it was a spoof and it was set in the West in 1874, with dialogue from 1974. And I think that's pretty much what you have to say about the parameters, about Blazing Saddles. It's an anachronistic film. It's full of anachronisms because the attitude, the dialogue, the stances are all 1974, taking place in 1874.

Brad Shreve: 14:22

And what's funny to me is I always wondered why it was originally called Tex-Ex Cause I'm like where did they get that out of the blue? For some strange reason it was a play on Malcolm X. I didn't know that. I just learned that recently. I've always wondered about it. I'm glad they didn't go with Black Bart, which was the next name they were going to use, though they did use it for the TV movie, though they did use it for the TV movie, which we can touch on. But oh my God yeah, that's what I've heard. It's available on YouTube y'all. If you want to be bored, go watch Black Bart, which is a take on Blazing Saddles. It was actually the pilot to a series that didn't happen starring Louis Gossett Jr as Bart.

Tony Maietta: 14:58

Well, there you go. Well, that's amazing. Well, you know, black Bart is such a legendary Western name, amazing. Well you know, Black Bart is such a legendary.

Brad Shreve: 15:07

Western name Exactly, but yeah, I mean.

Tony Maietta: 15:08

It was too on the nose to me it was. It was probably. Yeah, I don't think that worked. So Mel decided to do it. Mel decided he was going to write it, but he wanted to get. He wanted to recreate the writer's room that he as I said just a little bit ago, he is experienced as a young writer in New York working for Sid Caesar. He wanted to have a group of. He didn't want to write it by himself. Obviously he was going to bring back Andrew Bergman. It was Andrew Bergman's story. So he had Andrew Bergman and he wanted to surround himself with writers that thought the way he did and he looked First person he looked to and I know you know this, brad but the first person he looked to to join his writing team was who was it?

Brad Shreve: 15:45

Richard Pryor.

Tony Maietta: 15:46

Richard Pryor Isn't that amazing. I love that.

Brad Shreve: 15:47

It is amazing. He also wanted Richard for Black Bart, and I'm so glad that didn't happen.

Tony Maietta: 15:52

Well, yeah, yeah.

Brad Shreve: 15:53

Because Richard's over the top, I think he's, he's a ham and I don't think that would have worked.

Tony Maietta: 16:05

Cleveland Little, not straight, but you know he was a lot more subtle than prior would have been. Well, yeah, in my opinion yeah, I'm also there was no way warner brothers was gonna allow prior to do it. Prior's reputation, prior hadn't made a film yet. So I mean, this was before silver streak, this was before you know the stir crazy but already known for his substance abuse yeah, he had a really bad reputation still, um, but he was an extraordinary writer, he was an extraordinary performer.

Tony Maietta: 16:26

So Mel wanted Richard Pryor. He had two other friends a former lawyer, norman Steinberg, and Norman's friend, a former dentist, alan Younger. I love how these lawyers and dentists really want to be comedy writers. I'm a lawyer, I'm a dentist. I really want to be a comedy writer. And Mel said that he hung a sign on the wall that said first we laugh. That was his guiding principle that they laugh first. If they laughed, they knew it was going to be something that was workable and they began working on this parody of the West and that's how it all started.

Brad Shreve: 17:02

And you know. You asked me why I thought this was such a great film. Not only is it hysterically funny though I hate the term pushing the envelope, it's the only one that comes to my head. Not only did Mel push the envelope, he is, I think, the only person that could have gotten away with this film.

Tony Maietta: 17:17

Oh, I think so.

Brad Shreve: 17:18

That just shows his brides.

Tony Maietta: 17:20

Yeah, I think so. Well, I mean you know springtime for Hitler in the producers. I mean this was not new territory to Mel. Mel believes the only way you know Mel always said famously, the only way, how do you get revenge on Hitler, you make any comedy writers out there, pay attention because this is from Mel Brooks. He said comedy has to have an engine to drive it. You just can't meat behind Lazing Saddles the structure, the engine that drives the story. So we accept this insanity because he's skewing racial prejudice, a loving satiric look at Westerns and the Western genre.

Brad Shreve: 18:24

Yeah, back to these reaction videos. I watch young adults watching All in the Family, but they're watching clips of Archie and they're like this is so offensive, how do you get away with it? And then in the comments you see older adults saying you can't take these out of context. You have to watch the whole episode. Yeah, exactly, and it's the same way with Blazing Saddles. If you don't watch the whole episode, you're going to think it's a racist, trashy movie.

Tony Maietta: 18:43

You have to watch the whole thing.

Brad Shreve: 18:45

Yes.

Tony Maietta: 18:45

You do, you really do, and you know what's also interesting and we said this before in our top five, and this is the same thing about this is true of Young Frankenstein, this is true of High Anxiety, this is true of Blazing Saddles, and it was designed this way. You don't have to know Hitchcock. As I told you, I had not seen a Hitchcock, or maybe I'd seen one. I obviously had probably seen Psycho before I saw High Anxiety and I loved it because they stand on their own, as their own creation. That being said, there's some wonderful shout-outs in Blazing Saddles. I mean, you know the name's known black bart is a western name, slim pickens, who was a western character actor slim pickens was so perfect, so perfect.

Brad Shreve: 19:36

There's a rumor that I want to know if this is true. I've seen this, I think. Even the saturday evening post said, and I'm having a hard time believing it's true what they're saying is that to prepare for this movie, slim Pickens would sleep outside hugging his Winchester rifle. To get in Taggart's mind. I'm like this guy played Westerns.

Tony Maietta: 19:55

Oh my God.

Brad Shreve: 19:57

Why would he? That doesn't even make sense. He was a former rodeo rider.

Tony Maietta: 20:01

Yes, and he was a legendary film actor from the 40s. I mean Santa Fe Passage, the Sheep man Tonka. No, he you know.

Brad Shreve: 20:09

That's an urban legend. I'm not buying.

Tony Maietta: 20:11

No, it's not at all. But here's something. And for people who don't really, who are trying to play Slim Pickens, maybe this will jog your memory. In addition to playing in Blazing Saddles, probably his most famous role is as Major King Kong in Dr Strangelove. He's the one who rides the bomb. So that's who Slim Pickens is. If you weren't aware who Slim Pickens was, yeah, love or hate Dr Strangelove.

Brad Shreve: 20:33

Him flying down on that nuclear missile, yelling yee-haw is so iconic it's just amazing.

Tony Maietta: 20:40

But he's not the main character in this. As we were saying, the main character's name is Black Bart, played by the incredibly handsome Cleveland Little. I mean wow.

Brad Shreve: 20:50

And when he's in his Gucci cowboy suit.

Tony Maietta: 20:54

Oh, what a handsome, handsome man.

Brad Shreve: 20:55

But do you?

Tony Maietta: 20:55

know we said Richard Pryor, Mel wanted Richard Pryor. But do you know who the original original choice was back when it was still called Tex-X? No, I don't. They originally wanted. They wanted James Earl Jones oh my gosh, oh wow that would have had even more gravitas. I don't know. I have the utmost respect for James Earl Jones, but I don't know that he could have. Yeah, I don't know that it necessarily would have worked.

Brad Shreve: 21:24

You know it's so hard sitting back after the fact to say I can't imagine them in the role. It just may it would have been a different movie, but maybe it's just as good. So you never can say.

Tony Maietta: 21:33

What's great about Cleveland Little is he's got that humor. He's got that look on his face Like I don't know this is all pretend folks. This is all just a big lark, and that's what's so wonderful about his performances he doesn't take it seriously, so therefore we don't take it seriously.

Brad Shreve: 21:51

It's a lot like what's Up Doc. It's a cartoon.

Tony Maietta: 21:53

Yes, exactly.

Brad Shreve: 21:54

There's so much, even the scene where he blows up Mongo. You see them coming in and going out of that saloon and I'm like the first time I saw it I thought that's really cheesy. You see the shadow on the backdrop as they leave. Come and go. You know the town is in the backdrop as they're leaving. Yeah, and then later I thought no, that's, that's the way old westerns were.

Tony Maietta: 22:13

So yeah, it should be there no, it is, it's very, it's very cartoony and he is, as we've said a million times, he is us, he's the one we identify with. Yes, because he's the sanest one. So he's surrounded by all these crazies in this cartoon, because it's a spoof, same as a farce, same family. You know, it's concerned, it's in its own reality, but you have that one person to identify with. That represents the audience that is around all these. So the other kooks around him, like lily von stupp, like headley lamar, like the brilliant harvey c, oh, my God, hedley, hedley, do you know? Here's a little trivia question. Well, it's not a trivia question, but here's something. I wonder if you knew this. Do you know that the real Hedy Lamar, hedy Lamar, who was a bombshell, literally 40s actress we can talk about, hedy Lamar, sued Mel Brooks?

Brad Shreve: 23:03

For $10 million, I think.

Tony Maietta: 23:04

Yes, yes, isn't that funny.

Brad Shreve: 23:06

And that is why he wrote in, because he says to Harvey Korman's character he calls him Hedy and Korman goes it's Hedley and he says this is 1874. You'll be able to sue her.

Tony Maietta: 23:20

Yes, yes.

Brad Shreve: 23:21

He wrote that in because of that lawsuit.

Tony Maietta: 23:25

Hedy Lamarr was a gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous woman. Yeah, there's a whole story about Hedy Lamarr and she basically created wireless communications, but that's another podcast. That's another. Or go watch one of my documentaries. I have a documentary on it, Anyway. So we've got Harvey Korman playing Hedy Lamarr. Who exactly is Hedy? Well, let's do this. I'm going to let you do this because this is your baby. Tell us a little bit about the people of Rockridge, the town that we are visiting in this Western. Who are we talking about here?

Brad Shreve: 24:06

territory. It's a territory, right. It's not a state yet, right? Yeah? So anyway, hedley Lamar is the basically the governor's right-hand man. The governor is a total nincompoop, mentally challenged Mel Brooks. William J Petelmane is his name and I learned where that name came from go ahead do you know where it came from?

Tony Maietta: 24:21

yeah, but you tell us.

Brad Shreve: 24:22

There was a flatulent artist who would get on stage and basically blow things out and do things with farts, and his stage name was Le Petomane. His real name was Joseph Pujol. He was from the 1800s.

Tony Maietta: 24:40

Mel is obsessed with flatulence in this film, obviously.

Brad Shreve: 24:43

It's one of the funniest, funniest things.

Tony Maietta: 24:44

It's one of the funniest, funniest things. It's one of the funniest things.

Brad Shreve: 24:47

So Headley is a crooked individual and you know as much as I've loved this film it really was this last time that I watched it, this past week I really was like damn, harvey nailed it. He just hit the home run with this role.

Tony Maietta: 25:02

He is so brilliant. He really is. Mel considered him the most brilliant sketch comedian ever and I got to tell you watching this and watching High Anxiety again, and, as we all know, from his work on the Carol Burnett Show, which is how Mel first came to his attention, he came to Mel's attention. He is. I agree, harvey Korman's level of commitment to the most ridiculous circumstances is unparalleled and it's what made him. Carol Burnett also said that she said he was the best. He was the best sketch comedian she'd ever known. And Mel Buxigliet and he clearly shows it in this film because he's so invested, he believes in every single moment, in High Anxiety too. I want to talk about him in High Anxiety. There's one specific moment in high anxiety where he's so it's just great, it's so great, so, so, yes, so Harvey Korman plays Hedley Lamar, who's the governor's assistant. Slim Pickens plays Taggart, who is Hedley's henchman. Basically, right, right, would you call. It would be safe to call him that.

Brad Shreve: 26:01

Yes, he's over. He's in charge of building the new railroad and he is Hedley's henchman. And then sticking with the villains. Slim Pickens sidekick is Bert Gilliam, who plays Lyle, and I think he plays great in his role too.

Tony Maietta: 26:19

He's wonderful.

Brad Shreve: 26:21

Yep, those are the villains for the most part In the town. Let's start with Cleavon Little. He is Bart. He is a man that worked on the railroad with other black men that were soon, not long after slavery, as well, as some Asian folks as well know. It just was a lot of people died building these railroads. Yes, yeah, so, uh, anyway, he has an incident with slim pickens. He basically hits him in the back of the head with a shovel. He's due to be hanged. And harvey korman comes up with the great idea that he will run the people of rock ridge out of town if they give him, if he gives them, a black sheriff, and he wants to take over this town because he wants to put the railroad through there and make a fortune.

Tony Maietta: 27:06

Yes, exactly, exactly.

Brad Shreve: 27:08

Now Black Bart's sidekick is a drunk former. What do you call him? The guy that shot a gun shooter? Thank you, that was the name Named Jim, also known as the Waco Kid, Not one of my favorite actors. I'm probably this is probably blasphemous I'm not a huge fan of Gene Wilder, so I didn't hate him in this role. I wish somebody else was in it.

Tony Maietta: 27:33

Well, you know who was originally supposed to do it right.

Brad Shreve: 27:36

John Wayne, I think.

Tony Maietta: 27:37

Well, no, there's a story about that. Oh no, gig Young, gig Young yeah, mel Brooks, he actually was there one day on the job when he was there one day and was fired because he was drunk, uh, and he couldn't do it mel brooks ran into john wayne at the commissary, at warner brothers, and said and was like having palpitations.

Tony Maietta: 27:53

He was like mr wayne and he's like oh, mel brooks, I love the producers. And he said I have a script with a part for you. Would you even consider reading it? And john was it, of course. So John Wayne took it home and read it and he said let's meet here tomorrow at the same time and I'll talk to you. And he said, Mel, I love it. It's this great script. She says I can't do it. He said my audience would never accept me in a film where a character says blow it out your ass. He said but I'll be the first person in line to buy a ticket when it's on. So yes, absolutely.

Tony Maietta: 28:26

So John Wayne didn't do it. Yes, Originally the Waco kid was gig young, who was a light comedic actor. He's known for desk set old acquaintance. But he had just won an Oscar. For they shoot horses, Don't they? Which?

Tony Maietta: 28:39

we're going to be talking about coming up and he kind of stunned Hollywood with this performance. But he was also very well known as a very heavy drinker. He assured Mel that he was on the wagon, that he was sober, that he was going to be fine for this, and on the first day of filming the very first scene where the Waco kid meets Black Bart, he couldn't get his lines out.

Brad Shreve: 29:03

He put a little of himself too much in that role.

Tony Maietta: 29:06

He put a little too much of himself. He was plastered and then he started spewing green vomit.

Brad Shreve: 29:11

Oh no.

Tony Maietta: 29:12

Yeah, and then he was taken off the set. So Mel had a real problem. He's like this was a Friday, mel says he didn't know what to do and he thought Gene Wilder, so he called Gene Wilder. Gene Wilder played Leo Bloom in the Producers and they were very close friends. He had just made his film debut in Bonnie and Clyde the same year as the Producers and he really did this as a favor to Brooks, because the Waco kid was not supposed to be this young. He wasn't supposed to be Gene Wilder, he was supposed to be an old alcoholic Kind of like get Young, just not literally. The actor wasn't supposed to be an alcoholic, but he agreed to do it. He did it as a favor for Mel Brooks so he actually flew from New York to LA and was on the set the following Monday doing the same scene that Gig Young was doing on a Friday, and that's how Gene Wilder ended up.

Brad Shreve: 30:03

That's impressive. It is impressive.

Tony Maietta: 30:05

And what's even more impressive is and how these things work. While they were making the film, gene Wilder was working on something. He'd be working on something whenever they have a break. And finally Mel said Gene, what are you working on? And Gene said I want to do a movie that's a takeoff on horror films. And so they met and that's where Young Frankenstein was born, on the set of Blazing Saddles. So everything happens for a reason. Gig Young had a very tragic end. Unfortunately, he killed his young wife and then himself in 1978. He was a very troubled man and it's very, very sad. But we got Gene Wilder in the role of the Waco Kid and yeah, I see what you mean. I mean he's not exactly right, but I still think he's great.

Brad Shreve: 30:50

An older individual in that role. What, now that you mentioned would have been made more sense? Right, absolutely, but it's, it's okay. I want to wrap up the the other two major characters because I really want to talk about the townsfolk.

Brad Shreve: 31:11

Yes, but you have. There's one very important one that we haven't gotten to yet. Well, there's, there's two. I'm gonna first say alex karras. Right, he was an ex-football player, big beefy man who plays mongo. To describe mongo is uh, when mongo gets into town, uh, bart puts on his uh gun belt and and the Waco kid says oh, don't shoot him, you'll just make him mad. So he was a villain to begin with. He later turns a good guy. And then the last one, somebody who was I guess she was okay for this role Madeline Kahn, as the voluptuous Lily Van Stoop and probably one of the most beautiful singers there ever was. Oh, that's the thing about Madeline Kahn as the voluptuous Lily Van Stoop and probably one of the most beautiful singers there ever was.

Tony Maietta: 31:47

Oh, that's the thing about Madeline.

Brad Shreve: 31:49

I mean she was.

Tony Maietta: 31:51

Exactly. Well, here's the thing. So she's doing so. Madeline yes, madeline Kahn plays Lily Van Stoop. She is a takeoff on Marlena Dietrich in Destry Rides Again and go look it up if you don't know what Destry Rides Again? And go look it up if you don't know what Destry Rides Again is. And she's doing Dietrich. And the brilliant thing about Madeleine Kahn is Madeleine Kahn was an operatically trained singer. Okay, she could have sung opera. She wanted to be an opera singer. It is very difficult to sing only slightly off key. It's very difficult to sing under the pitch. Bad actors can sing badly, yeah, but it's not real when people are really singing and they're just slightly off-pitch. That's what Dietrich would do and that's a very difficult thing to do. And because Kahn was operatically trained, she could do it. And Mel Brooks said he was blown away by that. It was also blown away by her Dietrich impression. I mean, she's so funny. All the W's Bismarck.

Brad Shreve: 32:53

It's true. It's true. Is Bismarck a hailing?

Tony Maietta: 32:58

That's it Exactly. Is Bismarck a hailing? She's so funny. She does this wonderful song called I'm Tired, which Mel also wrote, which is just the most hysterically funny takeoff on every song that Dietrich ever did, and you know it's funny when they was. There's a couple things, and I know you want to talk about the townspeople, but there is a there with Madeleine Kahn in Blazing Saddles which I want to talk about later.

Tony Maietta: 33:25

Oh, I'm going to hear it. I'll get to it, remind me. But when he first, you know, mel said if he couldn't get Madeleine Kahn to play Lily Wunschdupp, he didn't think he was going to make the film. He said because he had seen her do Dietrich each other. When he first met he said I need to see your legs. And Madeline Kahn was like, oh, this is one of these kind of auditions, huh.

Tony Maietta: 33:53

But, he's like no, no, no, no, because of Dietrich, I just need to make sure. And he said and her legs were beautiful, and they are beautiful, she's a beautiful woman. You know, we talked a little bit about how she kind of got a complex from Eunice Burns and how she always tried to vary her parts after that to Trixie.

Tony Maietta: 34:17

Delight and Paper Moon in this part, princess Nympho. In History of the World, part One, where she's a real sexual being, a very beautiful woman, high anxiety. But yeah, khan is brilliant and Khan got an Academy Award nomination as Best Supporting Actor one of the three Oscar nominations. This film got To get an Oscar nomination not only for a comedy but for a parody. A spoof is a tremendous achievement. That's how brilliant Madeleine Khan is in this movie.

Brad Shreve: 34:38

It's hard for me to decide if she was better in what's Up, doc, or better in this, and I think they're equal. They're two different characters. It's completely different. That's the thing.

Tony Maietta: 34:47

They're totally different. That's why she was such a genius. Every single Mel Brooks film she's done. Every single film she's done Paper Moon, trixie Delight I think I said that before. Watch her as Eunice Burns and watch her as Trixie Delight. Then watch, watch her as Trixie Delight, then watch her as Lillie Von Stupp and then watch her as Princess Nympho. They are three Empress Nympho. They are three separate or four separate characterizations.

Tony Maietta: 35:18

And my Lucy story, really quickly, is that Madeline was supposed to play Gooch in the musical version of Mame in the musical. She was cast in the musical film of Mame with Lucy and Lucy was of the mindset because of television. She had four days to film a show. You had to have your characters down at the first reading. You had to know them. You had to be performance ready.

Tony Maietta: 35:32

Madeline is not this way. Madeline is of the stage. Madeline needs to create a character. She wanted to create her own Gooch. So after a couple of weeks Lucy said to Madeline when are we going to see your gooch? And Madeline said you are seeing my gooch and Lucy said out. So she fired her. Madeline Kahn was fired from MAME and went immediately into Blazing Saddles and got an Oscar nomination and Lucy always held that she did that on purpose and I don't know if that's true, but I tell you she really dodged a bullet. Let me tell you right now, I mean of the two huh you know, a massive musical bomb with Lucy or an Oscar nominated role with Mel Brooks. I think I kind of go with Mel Brooks.

Brad Shreve: 36:17

When are we going to see your gooch? It sounds rather dirty. So I just want to run down through the town. People I'm not going to go into a lot of detail because I'm just going to name names, great, great character actors, I mean unbelievable cast, and so you either know these names or you don't. And, tony, you can go into a little more detail if you want. We had David Huddleston, liam Dunn, who lovely? And John Hillerman, george Firth. There's Carol Arthur trying to think of the ones people would most likely know, robert Collier. If you saw all these people's faces, you know who they were.

Tony Maietta: 36:51

Sure Dom DeLuise.

Brad Shreve: 36:53

Oh, Dom DeLuise. Yes, I wasn't thinking of the town, he's not a townsperson. But yeah, he was awesome, but he no, I forgot him. He's awesome and what's interesting about all these townspeople.

Tony Maietta: 37:07

What do they have in common? All their last names are Johnson. So you have Howard Johnson, who has an orange roof on his outhouse. You have Olsen Johnson.

Brad Shreve: 37:16

One flavor ice cream.

Tony Maietta: 37:18

Yes, gabby Johnson, van Johnson, it's funny. And Mel said you know, johnson's such a great name, it's just a perfect name to name all these people johnson and it's. It's just so funny when they have the meeting where they're trying to figure out what to do about everything and they're saying yes, brother johnson, believe what van johnson said. I want to listen to brother howard, johnson's just so funny, it's so funny.

Brad Shreve: 37:46

Going back to these reaction videos, I was watching this young couple watching that film and they and the thing came up about Howard Johnson's orange, the orange roof on Howard Johnson's outhouse, and they looked at each other and said I think that was it. There's a joke in there somewhere.

Tony Maietta: 38:02

Well, you know, the school teacher played by Carol Arthur, who played Harriet Johnson, is actually Dom DeLuise's wife.

Brad Shreve: 38:11

I didn't know that?

Tony Maietta: 38:12

Yeah, she's Mrs Dom DeLuise, and Dom DeLuise is not, you're right, he's not in the townspeople, he's in when this movie takes its incredibly funny turn, which we'll get to. Which we'll get to. But do you want to talk a little bit about? What do you want to talk about? I want to talk about the production. You want to talk about the plot a little bit? Let people know exactly what happens in this movie.

Brad Shreve: 38:33

Well, I can do the plot really quickly. I think most people have probably seen it if they're listening to our show. So I'd like you to get a little more into the production of it. But I'll just very quickly say there's the town of Rock Ridge. It is where Harvey Corman's character wants to put the railroad through and the town is in the way. So he wants to get the people to leave the town so that he can take over the town and make a fortune off of putting the railroad through.

Brad Shreve: 38:57

So he gets Black Bart to, convinces the governor to get Black Bart to be the first black sheriff, saying that the governor will be in history, even if he dies in one day. He'll still be in history and we'll make him the sheriff because we want somebody so vile or I don't know what the word he is that they'll leave in droves. So Bart shows up and he's not well received. In fact, this very lovely old lady who he walks up to and says ain't a lovely morning, ma'am? She says up yours in the N-word Just like oh, it just catches you off guard. And what's even better is later, when he does a good deed and she comes back and gives him a pie. She goes away and then she comes back and says of course you'll have the I don't know, of course you'll have the good manners not to tell anyone.

Tony Maietta: 39:44

I talk to you.

Brad Shreve: 39:45

Yes, exactly Something of that nature.

Tony Maietta: 39:48

Well, it's just, they're all incredibly prejudiced and it is difficult with 20, 25 years at least it is for me to hear the N-word over and over again. They don't, you know, it's not quite as much as I remember from watching this movie when I was a kid, so I don't think it was quite as much, but it's still said frequently and it is very difficult to hear. In fact and Mel Brooks had issues with this too. Now Mel Brooks is writing this, but Mel Brooks had a lot of issues with how far he was pushing the envelope. You know he wasn't pushing an envelope, he was driving it off the cliff. And he said that particularly in the campfire scene with the flatulence and the N, the N word, uh, probably, I'd like to think the F word too, because Mel is a, is a decent, kind person.

Tony Maietta: 40:42

Um, he said that he went to talk to the head of production at Warner Brothers, john Calley, that we talked a little bit about during our what's Up Doc episode. He was the head of production at Warner Brothers at this time and he said something to Mel which stuck with Mel. He said he remembered from then on, whenever he questioned anything, he said to Mel Mel, if you're going to step up to the bell, ring it, and Mel took that advice and ran with it. He's like you're right, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. So that's why it works, because he goes for it. He doesn't pull back, he goes for it, and it's the driving force behind this comedy absolutely.

Brad Shreve: 41:23

And then Slim Pickens becomes the head of the Marauders that go into Rock Ridge and they're stampeding townsfolk and raping cattle. They have words right out of the movie. I love the song. There Was a Peaceful Town Called Rock Ridge.

Brad Shreve: 41:39

Yes that's great. Yeah, are we to stay up or up and quit? There's no avoiding this decision. Our town is turning into shit. That's the final lines in the movie. And then Bart saves the day by saving the townsfolk and saving the town. So that's how the movie ends. And then he rides off with the Waco kid into the sunset, and then they ride on their horses and then they get in their limousine and drive away.

Tony Maietta: 42:03

Yes. Well, here's what I love about this movie and here, to me this is a saving grace is just at the point where you think, okay, how is this going to end? Mel brooks doesn't just break the fourth wall, he blows it apart, because in the last scene, as they're having the big fight, the camera pulls back, and pulls back, and pulls back and suddenly you're not in Rock Ridge, you're on the Warner Brothers lot and you see this huge soundstage and you're like, oh wait, a minute, I'm in Burbank, california. And the camera moves into the soundstage to a musical being directed by. It's a Busby Berkeley type musical being directed by Buddy Bizarre, who is Dom DeLuise, based on Busby Berkeley. And suddenly the townspeople who've been fighting crash into the soundstage and start fighting with each other, start fighting with the dancers in the musical number.

Brad Shreve: 42:58

The rough and tumble town folk butted in on the. The dancers were a large cast of a, let's say, effeminate men that dom deluise frequently uses the f word on yes and so then, to have them and then the cowboys burst in, is just perfect and they start fighting.

Tony Maietta: 43:15

But what's funny is what happens in one of them. They start fighting and they go behind this scrim, behind this flat, and they're behind the flat and they come around the other side of the flat and they've got their arms around each other and they're saying let's go over to my place. The fourth wall is gone. And then it just goes to insanity. From there it's, it goes to a pie fight in the commissary. When, when, uh, hedley Lamar comes out of the restroom the men's room and sees, sees this pie fight going on, ducks back in again, puts shaving cream on his face and walks out again. So it looks like he's been hit with a pie, so he doesn't get hit. Walks out of the studio gates onto Alameda Street in Burbank, hails a car and says drive me off this picture.

Brad Shreve: 43:58

Yes, I got to say one thing about the commissary. Not only was it total chaos with all these different characters throwing pies at each other, Mel had to put the cherry on the pie by. In the background, you have Hitler doing his loot in Fast X. He's got to have a Hitler in there. I thought that was so funny. I love that.

Tony Maietta: 44:19

Oh my God. So Hedley Lamar is driven off this movie. But he's not. He's driven to Grauman's Chinese Theater where Blazing Saddles is playing. It's so meta. Before meta even existed, it was meta. He gets his popcorn, harvey Korman. He gets his popcorn. He goes down and he's watching the film Blazing Saddles on the screen. I know what I'm going to say yeah, that's right, that's right. And then Black Bart Cleavon Little comes in Grandma's Chinese Theater on a horse and runs him to the forecourt. And that's where Hedley Lamar meets his end. He is shot and he falls on the footprints of Douglas Fairbanks. And his last dying words are he looks at Douglas Fairbanks' footprints and he goes how did he do those stunts with such little feet?

Brad Shreve: 45:10

Nice.

Tony Maietta: 45:13

Oh, and that's the end of Hedley Lamar, hedley Lamar.

Brad Shreve: 45:17

Hedley Lamar. That's the end of Hedley.

Tony Maietta: 45:19

Yeah.

Brad Shreve: 45:21

And then Cleavon Little and Gene Walder as the Waco Kid. They go into the movie theater with their popcorn and basically say let's watch the end of the movie. And suddenly we're back in Rock Ridge.

Tony Maietta: 45:30

And, as Brad said, they ride off in the sunset together and then get off their horses and get in their limo and are driven away and that's it's just. I love that twist at the end. I think to me that's what, that's what I, what I really love about this movie. Like I said, I have issues with the language. I do, but that ending is so priceless and so unexpected and never done before. I mean, this is Mel Brooks' genius you know that this ends so ridiculously.

Tony Maietta: 46:10

And the first screening of Blazing Saddles in Los Angeles, he had real cattle in the lobby and he said after the first screening, one of the studio executives came up to him and said Mel, come with me and take notes. And he and John Calley and Mel went into an office and he said you got to cut this, you got to cut the campfire scene, cut the scene of punching the horse, cut the N-word, cut Lily's song. And Mel said whenever a studio executive tells you to cut things, just agree, Say yes, do it. Yes, oh yes, absolutely. That's gone, gone, gone. Always agree and then don't do it, Because once the film starts to make money, you don't hear from anybody. That's exactly what happened. It made such a huge amount of money, no problem I want to ask about another legend.

Brad Shreve: 46:50

That's true. First of all, I want to know. Second of all, I have something I've got to say about this movie. But before I do that, I'd heard that when mel showed it to this warner brotherss, they basically sat there and didn't laugh at all. And we're not happy with this film. Yeah, so Mel went out and got some of the blue collar workers from the lot and had the executives watch them laugh hysterically.

Tony Maietta: 47:16

That's it. I mean the studio executives we've said this before. They don't know what the hell they're doing. They just don't and he's absolutely right Always agree with them and then don't do it. And John Kelly said, when they were done with the meeting John Mel Brooks took, he said he took the notes crumpled up and threw it in the waste paper basket. And John Kelly said well filed, but there was one cut. There were some other cuts, but there was one cut. And I want to know if you knew about this cut, brad it's in the it's true, it's true scene it's true.

Tony Maietta: 47:48

It's true scene. Yeah, do you want to tell that story, or should I?

Brad Shreve: 47:51

you can tell it okay.

Tony Maietta: 47:53

so lily von stupp is hired by hedley lamar to seduce black bart and destroy him. But lily von stupp, after she'm Tired, gets one look at Cleavon Little and she's like I'm not destroying this guy. So it's very fascinating. The lights go out and they're in the dark and Lily says to him she says is it true about how you people are gifted? And then there's a beat and a beat and you hear and this is all in black, it's true.

Brad Shreve: 48:25

Well, you hear a very loud zipper first.

Tony Maietta: 48:27

You hear a loud zipper right. And then you hear her say oh, it's true, it's true, and the scene's over. Well, in the original shot, in the original filming of it, she says it's true, it's true. And then Cleavon Little's character said you're sucking on my arm.

Brad Shreve: 48:48

Hysterical, but I'm glad they cut it. I think it's better the way it ends.

Tony Maietta: 48:50

Good cut, good cut.

Brad Shreve: 48:52

It was a good cut. Now the reason I said I have something to say before we move on. Everybody remembers the fart scene around the campfire the cowboys eating the beans, drinking the coffee and farting, and people think that's the funniest scene. There is a different scene that makes me laugh so hard every time because it is right out of a Warner Brothers cartoon. I could see Bugs Bunny doing it, and that is the toll booth.

Tony Maietta: 49:18

Yes, yes, yes.

Brad Shreve: 49:19

The marauders are running, riding across the desert to get to the town and to ransack the town and to slow them down, bart builds a toll booth. You can easily go around the toll booth, of course, but he builds a toll booth. And they get to the toll booth and Slim Pickens turns around and says my favorite line of the movie somebody has to go back and get a shitload of dimes.

Tony Maietta: 49:50

It doesn't occur to them to just go around this stand-alone toll booth.

Tony Maietta: 49:56

They've got to go back and get dimes and Sam Pickens is so Goddamn dimes. It's so funny because it's so outrageous and this is why it's funny, because they are so invested in the insanity, they're so believable. Yes, it's their reality and that's what makes this movie work. That's what makes it so damned funny, so funny. And, yeah, this movie was a tremendous, tremendous success. As I said, three Oscar nominations best supporting actress, best film editing and, last but not least, the song Blazing Saddles, that wonderful song that it's a great song. It is a great song, it's a fabulous song. And what I want to say about the song is that Mel wrote it, because Mel was a very gifted writer. I mean, just listen to the producers. He wrote the musical, the Producers. The song Blazing Saddles was written by Mel and John Morris and it was sung by Frankie Lane, who was a legendary singer of Western themes. He did Rawhide, the theme from Rawhide.

Tony Maietta: 50:58

And Mel said wouldn't it be great if we could get a singer like Frankie Lane? And there you go.

Brad Shreve: 51:04

So they got Frankie Lane, yeah. Last thing I want to add is you are so uncomfortable with this film, and I am not the least bit uncomfortable, and I think part of the reason is my husband, maurice, is. No way am I implying that he speaks for black people all across America, but it does help that he, my husband, is a black man and he loves this film, so yeah and I don't.

Tony Maietta: 51:27

I get it. I get it. It's not my, as I said, I have a said I prefer a kinder and gentler, mel Brooks, and that's why we're going to talk about our second movie. But I do appreciate this film and I don't deny it that it's hysterically funny and the performances are outrageous. All right, that was Blazing Saddles, now I guess we're on to High Anxiety.

Brad Shreve: 51:55

High.

Tony Maietta: 51:55

Anxiety what?

Brad Shreve: 51:56

do you want to say about?

Tony Maietta: 51:57

High Anxiety before I start Brad.

Brad Shreve: 52:00

High Anxiety. I loved this film when it first came out. It is brilliant take on Alfred Hitchcock films. Right, there are some references that are very subtle and some references that are so in your face, and this is where I said I don't think it's timeless. You said you didn't know anything about Hitchcock when you watched it. I sat there and watched it the other day and I thought I don't think this would be funny if you didn't know Hitchcock. Oh God, because some of the didn't know Hitchcock, because some of the jokes are so Hitchcockian.

Tony Maietta: 52:33

But think about the characters for a minute. Oh, the characters are great. That's what makes it funny. Nurse Diesel, cloris Leachman, harvey Korman again is Dr Montague. I mean, the characters are so funny, the situations are funny and I really do believe that. I don't think that you need to know. Obviously, if you know Hitchcock, it makes it all the richer and it makes it all the funnier and you get oh my God he's making fun of. Obviously I knew the birds, the lodger, you know the references to the spellbound characters. I mean, yes, it makes it so much funnier, but I don't believe you need to. I still can I enjoy this movie just for the hysterically funny script and performances.

Brad Shreve: 53:21

One thing I've got to agree with you on is the camera angle setup. The camera angles are funny, no matter what the you know going through the window, going through the window, the way they move, they're funny. I just think they're 10 times funnier if you're familiar that those are Hitchcock inventions.

Tony Maietta: 53:39

I agree with you.

Brad Shreve: 53:40

They're shots we take for granted today.

Tony Maietta: 53:42

I agree with you. I agree with you. But I mean, I'm not telling a lie I really hadn't seen much Hitchcock before I saw this In this movie, one of my absolute favorite movies, a huge movie when I was in college. Like what's Up, doc? We would quote continually. You know the drapes in the psychotic game room we would talk about. You know, dinner is served promptly at eight in the private dining room. Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup, fruit cup. And then she looks at Harvey Korman because you know Harvey Korman, late, but anyway, high Anxiety. 20th Century Fox, 1977.

Tony Maietta: 54:10

They had just finished Silent Movie and they're thinking they had just spoofed Westerns. They had spoofed horror films with Young Frankenstein. They just spoofed Silent Film with Silent Movie. What are we going to do?

Tony Maietta: 54:24

While they were making Silent Movie, they were watching Frenzy, which is Hitchcock's penultimate film. It's not his last film, it's his next-to-last film. And they said why don't we spoof Hitchcock? Because in Mel Brooks' mind, hitchcock is a genre, just like Westerns are a genre, just like horror films are a genre. I mean, it's Hitchcockian. People say all the time yes, it's a genre. So they thought why don't we spoof Hitchcock? And the writers who were working on Silent Movie, ron Clark, rudy DeLuca and Barry Levinson, who later went on to direct Diner, a great movie all came up with this idea of spoofing Hitchcock. They agreed they were going to incorporate, make a film in which they could incorporate as many of their favorite scenes as they could into some kind of loose crazy story. But there are four main films spoofed, four main Hitchcock films spoofed in High Anxiety, and I'm not going to put you on the spot, but just give me a couple, brad, if you can name a couple.

Brad Shreve: 55:29

The two that I think stand out for everyone, regardless if they've ever seen the movies or not. Are the Birds and Psycho Correct? We also have obviously Vertigo, which is my least favorite Hitchcock film, though I haven't seen them all. North by Northwest is probably the one joke I think falls flat because it's a little too on your nose. Is probably the one joke I think falls flat because it's a little too on your nose.

Tony Maietta: 55:50

But think about it. What is Mel's name? What is Mel Brooks' name in High Anxiety?

Brad Shreve: 55:57

Oh my.

Tony Maietta: 56:00

Dr Thorndyke.

Brad Shreve: 56:02

Oh, I was going to say Thorndyke, but I thought that was the doctor that was before him.

Tony Maietta: 56:05

Richard Thorndyke and Cary Grant's name in North by Northwest is North by Northwest, and North by Northwest is Roger, north by Northwest. In North by Northwest is Roger Thornhill. So there's your North by Northwest also, and you're missing the big one, spellbound.

Brad Shreve: 56:19

I was about to say Spellbound, spellbound takes place in a mental institution. With a new doctor.

Tony Maietta: 56:24

With a new doctor. So those are the main four Spellbound, vertigo, the Birds and Psycho. Also hints at North by Northwest, the Wrong man Frenzy, the Lodger Dial-In for Murder, dr Richard Thorndike, who is a psychiatrist, who comes to work at the Institute for the Very, very Nervous after Dr Ashley, his predecessor, died under suspicious circumstances, and that's how the film starts. And there's also one other film that high anxiety kind of dips into, and it's a 1955 film called the Cobweb. So it's not just Hitchcock, this is a 1955 Vincent Minnelli film called the Cobweb. It's about the goings on at an institute for nervous disorders in which the staff are crazier than the patients. It's not a comedy either, it's a melodrama, and many of them obsess over the drapes in the clinic library.

Tony Maietta: 57:34

So that's where we get Nurse Diesel saying the drapes in the psychotic game room.

Brad Shreve: 57:40

Oh yes.

Tony Maietta: 57:41

Dr Ashley Felt he had big plans to change that. Well, dr Ashley Felt, that color has a great deal to do with the well-being of the emotionally disturbed, and so that's where the drapes come from, from the film the Cobweb from 1955. When they got a rough draft together, mel Brooks knew that he had to get the blessing of Hitchcock. He knew, you know, he wasn't going to move forward with this unless Hitchcock said it was okay. So he called him, and Hitchcock was a big fan of Blazing Saddles. Mel told Hitchcock said it was okay. So he called him, and Hitchcock was a big fan of Blazing Saddles. Mel told Hitchcock that he was the greatest filmmaker who ever lived and he wanted to create a faithful but satiric look at some of his most memorable scenes. So they went to Hitchcock's office at Universal. Mel had lunch with him, he read them the outline, he read it, took it home, he came back, he gave him some pointers and from then on Mel would go to Hitchcock's office every Friday to work on the script. So Hitchcock was kind of a script doctor on High Anxiety because he would fix things. He'd say no, that's not quite right, you've got to do this, this and this. And they developed a real it's really a heartwarming story a wonderful friendship, and they would continue to have lunches Even after high anxiety was finished. They usually go to Chasen's and have these enormous lunches and Mel Brooks told a very funny story about they would have a huge lunch, you know, beef Wellington and starting off with shrimp cocktail and beef Wellington and chocolate sundaes, and then sometimes they would be finished and Hitchcock would look up and call the waiter over and say again and he would have the entire meal again. Oh, my word, yeah. So I mean that's Hitchcock. So Hitchcock actually helped write High Anxiety. He's uncredited. The film was dedicated to him. You really see Mel's love for Hitchcock. This is absolutely right. It is truly a faithful satiric and loving.

Tony Maietta: 59:35

Look at some of the funniest things in Hitchcock, because the thing about Hitchcock is and a lot of contemporary critics said this about High Anxiety there's an awful lot of humor in Hitchcock. Hitchcock considered Psycho a dark comedy. So so much of Hitchcock. North by Northwest has wonderful touches of humor. I think the only one that doesn't have a lot of humor is Vertigo. But that's just because you and I neither one of us are crazy about Vertigo. But think about it. There's humor in Rear Window. There's humor in Strangers on a Train. I mean, there's an awful lot of humor. So it's kind of hard to satirize something which is also already somewhat humorous, but I think he does an amazing job. I really do.

Brad Shreve: 1:00:13

Yeah, I looked at numerous reviews from critics and that is what I heard time and time again, especially, I think, cisco neighbor. But a lot of other reviewers said the same thing and the whole time I'm thinking, yeah, but he did. It just seemed nitpicky. Just seemed nitpicky and I thought, in my opinion, quite dumb, because I I felt like they were looking for something. I think he did a great job. Yes, there's lots of humor humor in hitchcock films but there's no reason why you can't take it a level further, which is what brooks is great at is totally what he's great at and it's an affectionate satire.

Tony Maietta: 1:00:43

That's, oh, totally. It's done with such love all of mel brooks's satires really are. I mean, I think that's true with Blazing Saddles, I think that's true, certainly true with Young Frankenstein. It's an affectionate look at Hitchcock and a take on Hitchcock. And I think one of the most interesting things is and we hinted at it a little bit is one of Hitchcock's. Brooks noticed that one of his hallmarks is the camera is like another character the way, the camera moves.

Tony Maietta: 1:01:12

We just talked about rope last season with Steven, the way Hitchcock filmed rope. Yeah, it was a gimmick making it look like one big long take, but that camera moves like a person in rope. I guess probably the most famous is Notorious the scene with the key in Ingrid Bergman's hand and how the camera starts way up high and comes down in one long shot until it's virtually a close-up of the key in her hand. The camera movements and he does that in High Anxiety. He does that when the camera. One of the best scenes is when the camera's under the glass table when Nurse Diesel and Dr Montague are planning Dr Thorndyke's death and the camera's watching them through this glass table. And every time they take a sip from their coffee they put the plate down and it blocks the camera view. So the camera moves. And then they put another plate down and it blocks the camera view. Then it moves again until finally Cloris Leachman picks up a big tray and says shut up and finish your strudel, and she just puts this plate down.

Brad Shreve: 1:02:12

It entirely blocks the camera, view it's one of the hysterical scenes.

Tony Maietta: 1:02:15

But this is the kind of stuff he did. It's a wonderful, wonderful takeoff on Hitchcock. Another reason why I think that, like I said, I don't think you have to know Hitchcock to love this movie are the characters. Let's talk about some of these characters here. First of all, when they were writing the script, they said for the role of Richard Thorndyke, the doctor, the main character, they said we need a Cary Grant type for this role and Mel said that's me, I'll do it. So he did so he cast himself as the lead and I think your opinion on this. I think he looks pretty good in this movie. I was always struck by you know, he's a very cute man. He's a cute, cuddly Melbrook.

Tony Maietta: 1:02:59

But I think he looks pretty handsome in this film, first starring role.

Brad Shreve: 1:03:02

I think he did great, I think he looks because he's kind of unassuming in an assuming kind of way.

Tony Maietta: 1:03:15

Yeah, no, he's great. I think he's incredibly charming. He's Mel Brooks. He's incredibly charming.

Brad Shreve: 1:03:20

Yeah, I'm surprised at how well he did.

Tony Maietta: 1:03:21

Yeah, I mean he's not Cary Grant, but nobody was Cary Grant. Cary Grant wasn't Cary Grant.

Brad Shreve: 1:03:26

Right.

Tony Maietta: 1:03:32

But he certainly fills the role. And here we go with these other characters which we've kind of briefly touched on the brilliant Harvey Korman playing Dr Montague. You know, after working with him on Blazing Saddles, mel kept trying to find opportunities for him and I guess there wasn't an opportunity for him in Young, frankenstein or Silent Movie. But Dr Montague, the perfect. He's such a slimy, sleazy character and nobody plays better than Harvey Korman.

Brad Shreve: 1:03:58

And this is something that interested me, because it's been a while since I saw High Anxiety and I thought, okay, korman is kind of the villain in this film. I wonder if he's going to be identical to the character in yeah to Headley in Blazing Saddles, and I was kind of concerned about that. And no, he wasn't. He was sleazy, but he was also insecure, I guess for lack of a better word- he's very effete.

Tony Maietta: 1:04:23

He's very effete and he's you know, he's basically you know he's whipped by Nurse Diesel. I mean they are in an S and M relationship and he's definitely the M part of that relationship. But yeah, he's very much a milquetoast, he's very much a namby-pamby kind of. He's just a sleazy, sleazy character. And Corman is so brilliant and when we talk about farce and we talk about a spoof, and I say what makes these things work is the actor's absolute dedication to their reality and that there's no better example of that than in the fruit cup scene. So you know, nurse Diesel has already said dinner is served promptly at eight and those who are tardy do not get fruit cup. And then she looks up at Dr Montague and leaves. So we know he's always late. So they're having dinner and the fruit cups are there and there's no Dr Montague. So she rings the bell and the server comes and takes away the fruit cup and at that moment Harvey Korman comes tripping down the stairs. He's like floating, because he knows he's late, but he's going to make it. He's going to make it. He's skipping down the stairs. He's like floating, because he knows he's late, but he's going to make it. He's going to make it.

Tony Maietta: 1:05:34

He's skipping down the stairs. He does a little hop, he runs over to the table. He sits down, he takes his napkin out with a flourish. He flips his napkin, puts it on his lap, takes a look at Nurse Diesel, gives her a little smile, grabs his spoon, goes down to his fruit cup and brings up air. And that's when he realizes the fruit cup is gone. He goes through this entire machinations of having some and it doesn't get to the very last moment when he brings up a spoonful of air to his mouth, does he realize that the fruit? I mean? It's this kind of dedication that makes this so funny.

Brad Shreve: 1:06:08

And going back to Hedley Lamar, this is where I really see that there was a difference and it shows his genius. Hedley was a clown, but at all times he was self-confident, right, never lost his confidence. That is totally different, oh completely.

Tony Maietta: 1:06:22

He's completely different. He's a completely different. Yeah, he's the genius of Harvey Korman. And just the other side of that coin we've talked about it before Cloris Brando. I mean, I don't think there was a more gifted character actress than Cloris Leachman. But beautiful. That's the thing about Cloris Leachman we forget because she does these characters where she makes herself hideous. Cloris Leachman was a beauty queen. She began her career in beauty pageants. So you know, she's beautiful as Phyllis, she's a beautiful woman, but she would do these things to herself. I mean, look what she did to herself in Young Frankenstein, you know. And Nurse Diesel has to be, in my opinion, like her utmost creation. What she does with Nurse Diesel, in my opinion, like her utmost creation, what she does with Nurse Diesel.

Brad Shreve: 1:07:12

It's tremendous. I heard Cloris interviewed years ago and she was talking about the characters that Mel always gives her and she said every movie I have more moles and bigger warts, but these are her choices.

Tony Maietta: 1:07:25

Yeah, I'm going to do a little plug. I did, and I told this to Brad before we started recording. You know, I did a documentary on high anxiety with Mel Brooks and with Cloris Leachman was there and Dom DeLuise's son, because he passed by. Then Harvey Korman had also passed and Cloris talked about that. She talked about the fact that she created Nurse Diesel. Okay, the documentary is on the Blu-ray so, unfortunately, unless you have the Blu-ray, you don't get to see it. I put it on my YouTube channel and they took it down. Damn it.

Tony Maietta: 1:07:54

So anyway, she's the one who came up with that costume. She's the one who came up with the pointed bra, the cone-shaped bra. She felt she was unbalanced with the cone-shaped bra so she wanted a hump on her back to kind of balance the fact that her boobs were sticking straight out, the black wig, the very pallid complexion and, according to Mel, she showed up to their first scene in her full attire, never having seen her before, with a pointed cone breast, the black wig and a slightly hairy lip. And Mel said we're going to be able to see that in the close-up, cloris, and she said I know, I put it there.

Tony Maietta: 1:08:38

She thought she just had a little hairy lip. So I mean, she created this look, she created the talk, the distinct Nurse, diesel talk with the siblings and it's just. She's just a genius, genius character out of the mind of Cloris Leachman, brilliant.

Brad Shreve: 1:08:55

And I think you told me before that the lipstick on her teeth was an accident and they left it there.

Tony Maietta: 1:09:00

Yeah, that's another thing she said. She said she looked and she saw she had lipstick on her teeth in the dinner scene and she said, oh, it looks good, I'll keep it there. I mean whatever could make. We always talk about Lucy making herself look ridiculous. Cloris Leachman was the queen of that. Nobody made herself look more ridiculous, and more believably so, than Cloris Leachman, and it's a genius, genius performance.

Brad Shreve: 1:09:22

And she didn't play it for comedy.

Tony Maietta: 1:09:24

She didn't. Well, that's as I've said, you know that's, that's the best comedy.

Tony Maietta: 1:09:27

That's what comedy is. You don't play comedy like you're playing a comedy. You play comedy like you're playing a drama. Yeah, because to the especially a farce, especially a farce you have. These actors have to believe 150% in what they're doing, otherwise it doesn't play. Yeah, you can't do that, you have to play it. Idea, as I said before, some of these other characters Ron Carey, remember when I said that High Anxiety isn't all Hitchcock, I talked about the cobweb. There was actually a character actor from the 30s and 40s named Edward Brophy that Ron Carey's character of Brophy is based on and he was like a henchman, he was like a sidekick and he would say things in these films like gee boss, I couldn't find a cab anywhere.

Tony Maietta: 1:10:12

Gee boss, and that's what Ron Carey's character is based on. But Ron Carey also used to do the sketch comedy bit where he played a weightlifter and his tagline was I got it, I got it.

Brad Shreve: 1:10:25

I got it, I ain't got it.

Tony Maietta: 1:10:27

And so that's why that's in there.

Brad Shreve: 1:10:30

I figured they had to come from somewhere and I had no idea. And I love when Brophy introduces himself to Thorndyke. He says I'm your limo driver and sidekick Driver and sidekick. He had sidekick in there.

Tony Maietta: 1:10:41

Yeah, just like Edward Brophy. Do you know who Howard Morris plays, dr Lil' Olman?

Brad Shreve: 1:10:48

I'm not familiar with him. I know his face. I knew right away who he is.

Tony Maietta: 1:10:51

I was going to ask you a question. He's most well-known for playing a certain character on a TV show from the 60s and I was going to ask you if you knew who it was.

Brad Shreve: 1:11:00

I want to say the chemist on Bewitched, but that's not it, because he was the guy from I can't think of his name, the guy from Love Vote.

Tony Maietta: 1:11:09

Yeah, no, I don't know Ernie Coppell.

Brad Shreve: 1:11:11

Yeah.

Tony Maietta: 1:11:11

He was Ernest T Bass on the Andy.

Brad Shreve: 1:11:15

Griffith Show. Oh my Lord, and he was a producer or director.

Tony Maietta: 1:11:20

He was also a producer and director. He actually directed some episodes of Bewitched. But he worked with Mel way back in the 50s with Sid Caesar. He's in a very funny takeoff of this Is your Life that they did on either your show of shows or Caesar's Hour, and so he knew Mel from them. So Mel loved the fact that he could bring his buddy from working with Sid Caesar onto the show and he's wonderful. The Laughter Little Omen is based on a character in Spellbound. He's based on the character of Dr Brulov in Spellbound. So there's your other, there's another Hitchcock.

Brad Shreve: 1:11:50

Professor Little Old man.

Tony Maietta: 1:11:53

Little Old man. Little Old man, Now climb, climb, you, son of a bitch Climb. I'm just going to throw lines out there.

Tony Maietta: 1:12:01

People would be like I hope everybody's watch High Anxiety before they listen to this, because otherwise this makes no sense. So also we have. Because it is a Going Hollywood podcast and because it's Mel Brooks yes, we have the sublime goddess Madeline Kahn. Madeline plays Victoria Brisbane who is doing a takeoff on every Hitchcock blonde. There was mostly Kim Novak, but also Vera Miles, tippi Hendren. She has a long blonde wig and she her first appearance. Mel brooks opens the door and she rushes in the room and says get away from the door. She's so funny and she's actually the one who came up with the sight gag that you love. Tell the people what the sight gag is that you love. That we talked about before, that Madeline Kahn, when she meets Dr Thorndyke after he's quote unquote done the murder.

Brad Shreve: 1:12:59

Her outfits match her car.

Tony Maietta: 1:13:01

Yes, she drives up in this Cadillac Seville covered with the Louis Vuitton pattern. She gets out and she's in the exact same jumpsuit as the materials, the same clutching, a Louis Vuitton bag. So her, her bag matches her pantsuit matches her car. She has that much money. It's so funny. It was Madeline Kahn's idea. That was her idea when they were putting it together. So you know what more can you say aboutleine Kahn's idea? That was her idea when they were putting it together. So you know what more can you say about Madeleine Kahn? She's actually in this one.

Tony Maietta: 1:13:33

She's probably the most subdued, I think, of all of her, because she's basically playing Kim Novak, she's playing Hitchcock's blonde and there's not a lot there. But what she does, she does wonderful, wonderful things. We should probably say that her father, Arthur Brisbane, is a patient at the Institute for the Very, very Nervous and she hasn't heard from him in weeks and she's very concerned and that's why she tracks down Mel Brooks' character and Mel Brooks was introduced to Dr Brisbane by Cloris Leachman's character, by Nurse Diesel and Dr Montague character by Nurse Diesel and Dr Montague as a Cocker Spaniel. It's another patient that they said was Arthur Brisbane and people always say to her she goes. He's my father and they say you're the Cocker's daughter Because they think he's a Cocker Spaniel.

Tony Maietta: 1:14:25

So, anyway, that's why Victoria Brisbane meets Dr Thorndyke and they realize something's going on at the Institute for the Very, Very Nervous and they need to investigate what happens. But what prevents them from going back? What is the plot point that prevents them from going back to the Institute when they're in San Francisco at the hotel? What happens that prevents them from going back?

Brad Shreve: 1:14:50

Mel Brooks or Thorndyke, excuse me is framed for a murder.

Tony Maietta: 1:14:54

That's right. He's framed for a murder. And who frames? What's the character's name that actually shoots? The man that frames Dr Thorndyke?

Brad Shreve: 1:15:05

I don't remember. I know he's a takeoff on Jaws from the James Bond films.

Tony Maietta: 1:15:09

He's played by one of the writers, rudy deluca. His name is braces, braces. Braces, because cloris really goes hello. Braces. Yes, he's one of the writers. Rudy deluca plays braces, the one who is the killer. Um, also, barry levinson, as we said before, who was one of the writers, also has a role in High Anxiety. All three of them have all three writers have roles. He plays Dennis the bellboy and he is a very high-strung bellboy and he, along with Mel Brooks, recreate probably the most famous scene in horror film history. And do you want to give us a little bit of background about what they're recreating when they do that?

Brad Shreve: 1:15:54

Well, they're recreating the shower scene from psycho.

Tony Maietta: 1:15:58

Right, right, exactly. And how do they do that?

Brad Shreve: 1:16:01

And the bellboy. He has been repeatedly told by Brooks that he wants a newspaper and he keeps putting off First. He's like we don't have a newspaper in the hotel. I'd have to go down the street, I didn't feel like it. And Brooks keeps having to complain that he wants his newspaper. So Brooks is in the shower. It's almost identical in shots.

Tony Maietta: 1:16:21

It is, it's almost shot per shot To.

Brad Shreve: 1:16:22

Psycho yeah, almost shot per shot. It's almost shot per shot To Psycho yeah, almost shot per shot. It's like you're watching Psycho, but with Brooks there.

Tony Maietta: 1:16:28

Yes, instead of Janet Leigh getting in the shower, it's Mel Brooks.

Brad Shreve: 1:16:32

And you see this shadowy figure coming up to the shower curtain, just like in Psycho, and the arm is raised and the curtain opens and he starts jabbing Thorndyke with the newspaper, screaming about the newspaper.

Tony Maietta: 1:16:45

Where's your newspaper? The funny thing about Barry Levinson is Barry Levinson had this gift where he could make his voice go higher and higher and higher.

Brad Shreve: 1:16:53

Oh my god, yes.

Tony Maietta: 1:16:54

So, as Dennis is getting more and more irritated each time he's reminded to get the newspaper Alright, I'll get your newspaper, I'll get your lousy, stinking newspaper. It gets higher and higher and higher. So, finally, when he gets the paper and Mel's in the shower and the figure comes up behind the shower curtain with his arm raised and he pulls it back and it's Dennis with his paper rolled up like it was the knife, and starts stabbing Mel with the newspaper. He goes here's your paper, here's your paper. Happy, happy, now Happy. And he goes higher and higher and higher happy, happy, now happy.

Brad Shreve: 1:17:30

He goes higher and higher and higher, and the beauty is one of the most memorable things about the.

Tony Maietta: 1:17:33

The stabbing in the shower in psycho is the blood flowing down the drain at the end yes, yes and in this movie we see the ink from the paper and hitch cast, the ink substitutes for the blood going around the drain. And then you get that shot of Mel, just like you get a shot of Janet Leigh and her eye open, Mel's eyes open, but he's not dead. He says that kid gets no tip. So that's a very famous. That's a very famous scene. Hitchcock loved that scene. He said two things to Mel. He said I love the newsprint going down the drain, but you missed two shower rings yes which alfred hitchcock.

Tony Maietta: 1:18:14

What is the second? I think the second best scene in this film. That's a takeoff that you love oh my, my gosh.

Brad Shreve: 1:18:24

Oh the birds.

Tony Maietta: 1:18:25

Yes, of course.

Brad Shreve: 1:18:28

It's the slapstickiest if that's a word seen in the whole movie, and probably if it was another movie I wouldn't think it was that funny. But my God, it was perfect.

Tony Maietta: 1:18:37

It's so funny. According to Mel Brooks, it was the only scene that Hitchcock laughed at out loud during the screening and it's basically. Yes, it's a takeoff on the birds. He's at a park and all of these pigeons conglomerate, just like they do in the birds on a jungle gym, and he starts to get up slowly and, sure enough, the pigeons follow him, but they're not pelting, they're not diving at him, they're pelting him with bird shit, which was a mixture which Mel Brooks said was a mixture of mayonnaise and spinach and it looks like it, and he literally, by the end of the scene, he is covered in this bird shit, and Mel Brooks said that actually, one of the a couple of them were actual, real bird shit.

Tony Maietta: 1:19:23

Some of the pigeons let loose on him. These were the actual pigeons, not the same pigeons from the birds, but the trainer, hitchcock, introduced him to the guy who trained them in the birds. So he trained these pigeons to do this for high anxiety, which is an incredibly fortuitous thing when you think about it. Well, when you're working with Hitchcock and he's your script doctor on, your takeoff on High Anxiety makes sense. So, yeah, I think that's probably one of the funniest, funniest scenes ever.

Brad Shreve: 1:19:55

Yeah, and I was sitting there watching it because you know, in the movie the Birds you can kind of see the birds are superimposed at times and they were real and then some were fake. I sat there and watched this movie and I'm like how did they do that? It looks so real. Was it really real?

Tony Maietta: 1:20:08

I'm like no, it couldn't have been, I guess it was yeah, they were above the camera and they were shooting these pellets of mayonnaise and spinach onto Brooks, which makes him covered in bird poop. It's so funny. It's so funny and because it's Mel Brooks, we have to have a song. And in High Anxiety we have the song High Anxiety, which Mel and Dr Thorndyke and Victoria are at a bar, at a piano bar, and Dr Thorndyke, who's a psychiatrist, he's not a singer they say why don't you go ahead and sing something? And Victoria and Madeline Conn eggs him on and he goes. Okay, do you know high anxiety, just like he's saying.

Brad Shreve: 1:20:55

So random.

Tony Maietta: 1:20:55

Yeah, do you know Stardust? Do you know high anxiety? Do you know my Melancholy Baby? And so Dr Thorndyke gets up with the mic in his hand and suddenly turns into Frank Sinatra and Mel Brooks does a peerless Frank Sinatra takeoff of High Anxiety. He even does the. You know how Sinatra would leave out words and put in sounds. He goes like ooh, ooh, anxiety. He whips the mic cord around and at one point he whips the mic cord and Madeline Kahn goes ooh, oh, it's such a fun, fun movie.

Tony Maietta: 1:21:34

And in the end, of course, they make it back to the Institute for the very, very nervous. They get her father just in time Norton, one of the hoodlums at the Institute, is about to throw him off a very familiar tower, one that you might have seen in the Hitchcock movie called Vertigo. It's not the same tower but same idea. Dr Thorndyke overcomes his high anxiety in time to save Dr Brinsman-Bain off the out of the tower. And just when they think they're safe, they're like oh, it's over, thank God. The door falls and here comes Cloris Leachman in a witch's outfit and she, of course, goes to lunge at them. She's got a broom in her hand and she goes to lunge at them and she misses and she falls out the window and you see her start to fall and suddenly she works the broom around to where she's riding it.

Brad Shreve: 1:22:33

And she's cackling.

Tony Maietta: 1:22:34

She's cackling.

Brad Shreve: 1:22:38

She's cackling and sitting on this broom and you expect her to fly off.

Tony Maietta: 1:22:42

Yes, you do.

Brad Shreve: 1:22:44

And then a very graphic scene of her hitting the rocks.

Tony Maietta: 1:22:47

She hits the rocks and goodbye Nurse Diesel, goodbye Nurse Dean, nurse, nurse. But oh, when she comes out, when she came out in that witch's outfit, it's just so outrageous and funny. It's so funny and I think Harvey Korman and Harvey Korman's behind her, but Harvey Korman gets hit with a door and falls over. I don't think he plunges out the window.

Brad Shreve: 1:23:08

I think he's yeah when the door hits him. That's the last he sees.

Tony Maietta: 1:23:10

He's fine because he never liked her. I never liked her. She never bathed. He's so ready to change sides. That's what he is. He's one of these guys. He's so ready to change sides. So that's high anxiety. At the end, dr Thorndyke and Victoria Brisbane get married and that's how it ends and we're treated to the high anxiety waltz as the credits roll. And it's just for me personally, and we've talked about this. I just find it such a delight I put that movie on. It's one of these movies I put on, and from the very opening scene in the airport when that woman's holding the umbrella, and she's screaming and he thinks she's going to attack him, but she's so excited to see her loved one at the airport.

Tony Maietta: 1:23:56

I just start laughing. I just laugh, laugh and laugh.

Brad Shreve: 1:23:59

What a dramatic airport.

Tony Maietta: 1:24:01

What a dramatic airport. I love it. I love it. The thing I want to talk about, too, with the breaking the fourth wall. Another one of my favorite scenes is the dinner scene.

Tony Maietta: 1:24:11

We talked about the camera being a person in Hitchcock films, and this is what Brooks does in this. Not only the scene shot under the glass table, but when they're all having dinner at the Institute and we're outside the dining room and it's beautiful french doors and the camera's pulling in closer and closer to get into the scene and it goes a little too far and it breaks the glass of the door and they all stop and look up and then the camera kind of shyly pulls away like oops, I didn't mean to do that, it's just such a funny little bit. And then they continue with the scene.

Brad Shreve: 1:24:49

Yeah, they don't say a word.

Tony Maietta: 1:24:50

They look over. They don't say a word, they just all stop and look and then, and at the end of the movie, the camera does the same thing. It pulls back from Mel Brooks and Madeline Kahn as they're in bed and it goes through the wall and they do the same thing. They stop and they look up, and then the cameraman says keep going, maybe nobody will notice there's a big hole in the wall. Anyway, that's high anxiety. I love it, love it, love it. I think that it's one of Mel Brooks' crowning achievements.

Brad Shreve: 1:25:19

The desk clerk is Jack Riley.

Tony Maietta: 1:25:22

Jack Riley, oh, dennis.

Brad Shreve: 1:25:24

Yeah, most known for playing Mr Carlson or Mr Carlin in the Bob Newhart show. Mr Carlin, the very neurotic jerk on Bob Newhart show and I keep wondering was he chosen? You know, the main theme of the story or the backdrop of the story is the psychiatric hospital. So I'm like, was he chosen for that? And I'm like, no, they would have put him in the psych ward. Most likely he was.

Tony Maietta: 1:25:48

I don't know he was just a friend of mel brooks he's okay that's just like dick van patten.

Tony Maietta: 1:25:52

We didn't talk about dick van patten. In one of the funniest, most terrifying death scenes, I think, ever, dick van patten dies of a busted eardrum because he's trying to escape the institute. He's a doctor, he's dr wentworth, and he's trying to escape the Institute. He's a doctor, he's Dr Wentworth and he's trying to escape the clutches of Nurse Diesel and they let him go. But now they're going to kill him and he's stuck and he's trapped in this car and his radio is on and he can't turn it off. It's been rigged and it's playing this loud rock song called If you Love Me, baby, tell Me Loud.

Tony Maietta: 1:26:23

And it gets louder and louder until finally he dies of a busted eardrum, which is another brilliancy. No, he was a friend, just like Dick Van Patten, just like Howard Morris. You know Mel Brooks. We talked about this during what's Up. Doc Mel Brooks surrounded himself with basically a repertory company and these people that he would use again and again and plug them in different films Made Madeline Kahn, obviously, harvey Korman. We talked about Liam Dunn and John Hillerman. I mean, he loved using people Cloris Leachman, gene Wilder Using people again and again that he trusted and that he knew would deliver. And that's just who he was and that's such a funny scene, the whole movie's funny.

Brad Shreve: 1:27:05

Let me give you ideas of things that I don't think would work if you aren't familiar with hitchcock, especially today's world or I've even heard people say who's hitchcock? Which makes my skin crawl. Vertigo, yeah. So whenever mel is is uh, dealing with high anxiety, you see him falling with this the circle spinning behind him, just like they did in vertigo. Right, if you never saw vertigo, you'd be just like what is with these cheesy special effects?

Tony Maietta: 1:27:31

I think like that is really cheesy well I think I could be wrong no, I think you'd get that they was. Maybe you didn't know what they were spoofing, but you know he was spoofing something you know. I mean, it's just that's. You would just know that I, I think, I really do think that's the case. I don't, I don't think it's essential. Yes, it makes it much, much more satisfying viewing to know what they're spoofing. But we just told you Go watch High Anxiety.

Brad Shreve: 1:28:00

Let's know what your experience is. If you're not familiar with Hitchcock and you watch this film and enjoyed it, or you know people that did, it's hard when you're familiar with them to kind of put your, because I was thinking maybe I should watch it again with the blinders on, but that's impossible.

Tony Maietta: 1:28:12

No, you can't.

Brad Shreve: 1:28:12

So we'd like to hear from you.

Tony Maietta: 1:28:14

Yeah and don't do yeah, don't. You have the knowledge of it. It makes it all the funnier. Man himself, Hitchcock, loved it. Hitchcock, yep Mel, said he was really worried at the screening he was at the first screening because he didn't laugh. He only laughed at the scene with the birds he knew. But he said he got back to his office the next day and there was a case of champagne and a lovely note from Hitchcock saying how much he loved it and, as I said, they were friends for the rest of Hitchcock's life. So I don't think you can ask for a better testimonial than that.

Brad Shreve: 1:28:45

Two geniuses, two geniuses.

Tony Maietta: 1:28:47

Didn't make quite as much money as Blazing Saddles, but it still made $31 million, which was on a budget of $4 million. That's quite a payday. So Mel Brooks went on after this to do more spoofs. He did Spaceballs, robin Hood, men in Tights. I think that this was really his golden era, from Blazing Saddles to High Anxiety. I think the 70s were his time and I think I have issues with History of the World. I think it's a little too. I like some scenes in it very much. I think they're very funny, but I think some of it's a little tasteless. A lot of it and that's the thing about Mel Brooks is he straddles that line. It's a very tight line and I find parts of History of the World a little tasteless. But it's a fun movie. But I think these were really his prime periods and I think we have two films here which absolutely illustrate that.

Brad Shreve: 1:29:44

I didn't like History of the World. When I saw it in the theater I was really disappointed. When I watch it now, I laugh more, but it's definitely to me too over the top for Mel Brooks. It's the same way I feel about Spaceballs. There's humor in both of them, but I think he goes a little too far and doesn't take them serious enough.

Tony Maietta: 1:30:01

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think this was definitely his great period as far as films go.

Brad Shreve: 1:30:08

Now, as far as how High Anxiety did, it was only the 17th top grossing film in 1977. But you got to look at the films that it was up against. Star Wars the first one, Star Wars 4, a New Hope, close Encounters of the Third Kind, was number two. Saturday Night Fever was number three, smoking the Bandit, number four. I don't think that movie stands up today. And then the Good Bye Girl, number five. It had some movies that were top of the heap there.

Tony Maietta: 1:30:32

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I mean, but I still I think personally, and I think maybe it's not quite, as it's not as outrageous as Blazing Saddles, true, but I love the affection that Brooks clearly has for Hitchcock. It's just shown in this and it's just a delightful, a delightful silly movie. I love putting on it and I just laugh from the beginning to the end.

Brad Shreve: 1:30:59

And I will say that is probably one for the first time that I kind of thought I don't know about this movie because I've always loved it. I think part of the reason I got that is I watched Blazing Saddles one night and the very next night I watched High Anxiety and I'm like God, this is kind of slow. But, it's not the same film.

Tony Maietta: 1:31:17

It's not the same film. It's not the same film, it's not. Wow. Well, that's our season premiere, brad, blazing Saddles and High Anxiety. That's a lot. You know, listener, we want to say too we already have a lot of stuff, great stuff, scheduled coming up. We have some great theme months coming up. We're going to try this time we also have some interesting guest stars, some fun guest stars lined up. Yeah, I'm really excited about some of the movies and TV shows we're going to talk about coming up, brad.

Brad Shreve: 1:31:46

I'm excited too. We have a great list. We did some brainstorming before the season began, so we can be ahead of ourselves, unlike last season. You may have thought it was fine, we got every week, but, boy behind the scenes, we were struggling. Not this year, no, not this year.

Tony Maietta: 1:32:02

But yeah, we have some exciting stuff coming up. So please, by all means, as always, not this year, but yeah, we have some exciting stuff coming up. So please, by all means, as always, tell your friends. Please send us messages, a text message. We'll have our Spotify playlist, although the soundtrack for High Anxiety is pretty much already up there, because Brad put it up there for our episode last year and unfortunately, high Anxiety isn't on Spotify but it's on YouTube, so I'll leave a link. We'll leave a link to that on the YouTube page. Also, we will put I'll put a link to my documentary I did with Mel and Cloris and those people. It's called Spoofing the Master of Suspense, mel and Hitchcock. It's a cute one and if you don't have a Blu-ray and you can't watch it, sorry.

Brad Shreve: 1:32:42

I'm going to say one thing about the playlist. I canceled my Spotify account because I went over to YouTube Music and I think it deleted my playlist. So we'll have to. If it happened, we'll have to hurriedly. I know you're still on Spotify put it together.

Tony Maietta: 1:32:55

It's still up there.

Brad Shreve: 1:32:56

It's still there. Okay, good, never mind what I just said, yeah.

Tony Maietta: 1:33:00

Well, Brad, do we have anything else to say about Blazing Saddles and High Anxiety and our season premiere?

Brad Shreve: 1:33:07

I think it was. We went out. We started with a bang.

Tony Maietta: 1:33:10

We did. We did. This was a big one. It was a long one, but it needed to be because it's our premiere. So I guess there's nothing left to say, but I don't want to say it. So you know what? Let's not say goodbye Brad, let's just say High Anxiety. Say goodbye Brad, let's just say high anxiety. You win. Bye everybody.