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Tony Maietta:
You know, Brad, we've gone back and forth about whether or not we should do spoiler alerts for our episodes. But I think this episode needs an alert of some other kind.

Brad Shreve:
So not a spoiler. So what do you mean?

Tony Maietta:
Well, okay. Do do you remember when you were a kid back in the day and you had just like an hour before you were gonna go to bed, and there was a your TV show was gonna be on, and you were so excited. And you're sitting there waiting for your TV show to start. You're waiting for Alice or Donnie and Marie. Well, maybe not Donnie and Marie, but you're sitting there waiting for it, and suddenly the episode doesn't start. There's a black screen that comes up, and then an ominous voice says, due to the mature subject matter of this episode, viewer discretion is advised.

Brad Shreve:
And usually those were very special episodes.

Tony Maietta:
Very special episodes. Well, I think this episode of Going Hollywood needs that kind of very special episode adviser.

Brad Shreve:
There's some touchy stuff in here.

Tony Maietta:
There is. And and the movie that we're gonna talk about, Scotty and the Secret History of Hollywood, based on Scotty Bowerss' book, Full Service, does have some mature subject matter, and it might have some of the things which people find triggering or you know, it's for mature audiences, I guess, I wanna say. And I

Brad Shreve:
think we can say there's there's sexual abuse and things of that nature.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Things that might that people might find disturbing. So just keep that in mind, listener. We're giving you a listener discretion advised warning, but it's a fun episode. So If

Brad Shreve:
that bothers you, you have our permission to skip this week.

Tony Maietta:
I don't want them to skip it. They should listen to it. Alright. It's pretty good. Okay. Just brace yourself. So just you've been advised. You've been advised.

Tony Maietta:
So we hope you enjoy this episode on Scotty and the Secret History of Hollywood. Hello. I'm film historian, Tony Maeda.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm Bradstreet, who's just a guy who likes movies.

Tony Maietta:
We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age. We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too.

Brad Shreve:
And, of course, being the average guy, my opinions are the ones that matter.

Tony Maietta:
As does your self delusion. Welcome to Going Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
I'm Brad.

Tony Maietta:
I'm Tony Maeda. And What's your last name, Brad? Brad Shreve. Say your last name.

Brad Shreve:
Alright. I am Brad Shreve. Or as as all my, social media titles say is I am the Brad Shreve.

Tony Maietta:
You're the Brad Shreve. Yeah. I had one

Brad Shreve:
I had one that was Brad Shreve, and I accidentally deleted it. And since I couldn't get it back, I changed all of my the Bradstreet, which

Tony Maietta:
That's like with my website, which, by the way, we need we need to mention our social media accounts at the end of these episodes. It's like my website, and I can't be then I'm Tony com, not tonymaiedadot com because my cousin has tonymaiedadot com, and he's a graphic artist, and he won't let it go. So

Brad Shreve:
And my website is Shreve, and you'll find both of those links in the show notes as well as our social media accounts.

Tony Maietta:
There you go. See, we need to get that out. We need to get that over with before. We didn't do it last time.

Brad Shreve:
No. We didn't. And follow both of us. We're fascinating.

Tony Maietta:
We are fascinating. Not as fast well, no. Just as fascinating as Scotty Bowerss, which how about that lead in? That was beautiful. Was that good?

Brad Shreve:
Yes. We are gonna talk about Scotty Bowerss. What's the name of the film, Tony?

Tony Maietta:
The the film is called Scotty and the Secret History of Hollywood. It is based on Scotty Bowers's book, Full Service. Now we're not gonna talk about the book Full Service because this is a classic Hollywood podcast. However, I heartily recommend you read or listen because it's on Audible, which is my favorite way to read is to listen. It's on Audible. You know, and and for for those of you who aren't familiar with, Scotty Bowerss, Scotty Bowerss is the, I would say, just within the past, what, 2012 the book came out. So in the past 15 years or 12 years, however long years, you know, finally came out as the legendary urban mythic, Hollywood. He wasn't really a pimp.

Tony Maietta:
He because he didn't take money, but he was the he was the, what would you call it, the arranger of all these assignations.

Brad Shreve:
He says he didn't take Tony. He says

Tony Maietta:
he didn't take money. But, anyway, yes, he was kind of a legend. He was an urban myth for many years. People would say you have to you know, this guy who ran this, basically, this bordello out of a gas station in Hollywood Boulevard. 5777 Hollywood Boulevard. Well, there's a fire station now. But, yeah, this is about Scotty Bowerss, who is quite a character. Quite a character.

Tony Maietta:
What did you did you know anything about Scotty Bowerss before this?

Brad Shreve:
I knew nothing about Scotty Bowerss until you said we should watch this film and we should talk about it. Mhmm. So first of all, thank you very much. It's absolutely fascinating. I do wanna tell before we begin, we're gonna talk dirt about a lot of celebrities here.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And because it's what Scotty had in his book and it's what's in this in this movie, a lot of this can't be validated. So I wanna make sure people know we are not a gossip show, but this book has been sold. It was made a fortune selling.

Tony Maietta:
It was a New York Times bestseller.

Brad Shreve:
New York Times bestseller. The documentary is a classic.

Tony Maietta:
The documentary? Ryan Ryan Murphy bastardized it and made a horrible TV show out of it called Hollywood. Don't watch it. Yeah. So It's terrible.

Brad Shreve:
So we're not telling anything that isn't out there already. We're we're gonna talk about this Yeah. Film.

Tony Maietta:
Exactly. Scotty and the secret history of Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
And whether it's true or not, it's probably gonna be part of our conversation. So Yeah. And we're gonna actually, let's get that out. That's good. Well, no. No. No. I don't wanna get that out.

Brad Shreve:
What I wanna ask you before we begin, because what in this movie does, Scotty talk he he basically outs a lot of celebrities, who and those they were out as either being gay or bisexual Right. Or many people, who were straight, he outs them as being very promiscuous and kinky.

Tony Maietta:
Very libidinous. Kinky.

Brad Shreve:
So my question to you, Tony, is because this has been the biggest debate that I've seen about this book and the film. Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
Is

Brad Shreve:
it okay to out someone after they're dead?

Tony Maietta:
There's that question. I knew you were gonna ask me that question. No. I don't think it is however, and that's a big however. But this was common knowledge. And that's that's Scotty's, line of defense when people say that to him is this was common knowledge in Hollywood. It just wasn't common knowledge in Omaha. It just wasn't common knowledge in Peoria.

Tony Maietta:
You know, I don't mean to pick on the Midwest, but you you get what I'm saying. So Scotty's, would when Scotty would say that to him, that was always his defense. Wasn't that people in Hollywood knew it. It just he's just putting it in print. So it's it's a it's a very slippery slope.

Brad Shreve:
Well, there's actually a scene in in the film where

Tony Maietta:
Someone, yeah, confronts him.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Scotty is doing a book signing, and this guy walks up and he says

Tony Maietta:
At Just Fabulous, one of my favorite stores in Palm Springs.

Brad Shreve:
I've never been

Tony Maietta:
there. Yeah. It's, yeah. He he's confronted by someone who said, do you think this is wrong? And that's what he says. It was a it was a open secret.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. He says

Tony Maietta:
Not Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
He said it may be it may be news to those squares in Illinois. That's

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
But everybody knew this in Hollywood, so I'm not telling anything anybody didn't know.

Tony Maietta:
And here's the thing. You know what this did for me personally? And I had my own little, not a dark moment of the soul, but I had to reflect on this because my first reaction was you have no right to do that, and I thought, okay, but what's so bad about what he's doing? You know what I mean? I had to confront my own internalized homophobia, that I have and say, he's telling the truth about these people that his ex he's telling his experience with these people. He's had the right to do that, and why is that bad? He even says that to that one guy who who comes up with, you know, the book and says, how can you do this? He's like, so you're saying it's bad to be gay? It's bad to these people are living their lives. We are so we are so conditioned by Hollywood mostly, at least I'm speaking myself pretty much, to this idea that of what's wrong and what's right and what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. These people are living their truths. And, I had to really look at that and say, so what's bad about this? If they if he was saying they were, they liked chocolate ice cream, if he was saying they liked pistachio instead of strawberry, would I be like, oh my god. You can't tell somebody. He's dead.

Tony Maietta:
He can't defend himself because he likes pistachio? I mean, that's a stupid analogy, but you you see what I'm saying? It's because of the shame that we put on it that it becomes like how can you do that?

Brad Shreve:
Well, I'm gonna tell you what what I equate it to is Teddy Roosevelt, who

Tony Maietta:
That's interesting.

Brad Shreve:
Much of his presidency was in a wheelchair. Mhmm. And he never Franklin.

Tony Maietta:
Franklin.

Brad Shreve:
See him in

Tony Maietta:
Franklin.

Brad Shreve:
I'm sorry. Franklin. Yes. I'm sorry. Yeah. Much later. Franklin Roosevelt was in a wheelchair through much of his presidency, if not all of it. I'm not sure.

Brad Shreve:
And he never allowed the public to see that. Mhmm. So there now want statues of him in his wheelchair, and and many individuals that are wheelchairs or handicapped in general are praising this. Like, we need

Tony Maietta:
It's a great idea.

Brad Shreve:
A role model.

Tony Maietta:
That's great.

Brad Shreve:
And others are saying no because that he did not want people to see that during his lifetime. Shouldn't we honor that after his death? It it makes To me, it's about argument

Tony Maietta:
It's remarkable. It's it just goes to show you that that drives me crazy that people would be against that. It's showing you how much you can accomplish when you have these challenges. You know?

Brad Shreve:
It also shows we've come a long way, baby.

Tony Maietta:
We have come a long way. You know? We have a long and we have a long a lot further to go. But I and I'm not equating being gay or being bisexual with any kind of a physical handicap. I hate that word. I apologize for that.

Brad Shreve:
And I think you understand that's not what I'm doing either.

Tony Maietta:
But the challenges but it is a challenge, especially in those times. And somebody brings up a very valid point in the film. I think it's probably, William Mann or or some of the interviewees that you don't understand these these people, these kids, I always call them kids, who came of age maybe in the nineties and 2000, that in the sixties and the fifties, okay, you could be arrested, but you could also be put into an asylum. You could be put in you could get a lobotomy. I mean, these things happen to people simply because they were hanging out in an all male club. So what you're doing every on Sunday Funday on Robertson Boulevard, 30 plus years ago well, maybe 40 plus years ago, could have gotten you thrown in Bellevue, could have gotten you thrown in jail, could have gotten your your entire life destroyed for 1 afternoon in a in a bar or a club or even not even then if you were hanging out at the beach or you were you know, you people would be stopped. People people Scotty talks about it, being stopped on his way home from a party. It was an all male party, minding his own business.

Tony Maietta:
Okay? You're coming from a party. Can you imagine driving down, Rodeo Shreve, 3 in the morning from a fabulous party in the hills, and you get pulled over by a policeman and you're asked what party were you at? Were you know, was it all male party? I mean, this is and he could've been thrown in jail now. And Scotty, of course, it turns it into a sexual experience, but that's Scotty Bowerss.

Brad Shreve:
That's one

Tony Maietta:
of the reasons I love Scotty Bowerss. But this this happened, so people don't realize that. People don't realize how incredibly frightening it was for these people to be their authentic selves. We take it so for granted these days.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And going back to the Roosevelt analogy, I mean, being a gay man, I obviously don't think I have a handicap, though. I did it one time in my life. Sure. Now I embrace. I couldn't imagine not being gay. But what I was equating it to is somebody choosing to keep something a secret in their lifetime, you know, and should we do that? But let I'm let's talk about today. I mean, you you're an actor, and you're much more in the industry than I am.

Brad Shreve:
I have I've been to enough parties where actors and actresses who I didn't know were gay, and they aren't out publicly. Yeah. So we see this. Like, I'm gonna use Kevin Spacey. I mean, good god. Everybody in Hollywood knew about Kevin Spacey before Kevin Spacey.

Tony Maietta:
But they didn't in Peoria, and that's Scott in

Brad Shreve:
the corner. But that's what I'm saying. Is that okay? I mean, I knew I knew Kevin Spacey because I knew people that he was cast out of the of the spa because he he kept hitting on the guys. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
I I don't think I don't think it's weird because it's a slippery slope as I said if the person's dead or alive. Is that really a criteria for it? I don't know. I think it's Kevin store Kevin Spacey's truth to be told by Kevin Spacey until, you know, you statutory rape somebody and then Oh, I agree. Everybody knows about it.

Brad Shreve:
I agree. But before it was out, I would never consider saying anything.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. I I'm thinking more I'm thinking more along the lines of as an actor and we touched we touched on this a bit when I was on Queer We Are, Are, about how it affects your career. That's the problem. So if you out an actor and it affects their ability to make a living because suddenly they're not gonna be but that whole mental thing about why can't a gay actor play a straight part and vice versa and all that bullshit. You know, we gotta get over that. We've gotta get over it, and we're getting better at it, but it it's still. And so these actors that Scotty was helping, these stars that Scotty was helping, he was help his his theory is and his his defense is that he was helping them to live their authentic lives. He was he was making them happy.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
So he doesn't see anything wrong with they're all dead. They don't care what their families or what are their families gonna say? Those are people that we say. You know what? It's it's 2,000 well, this was 2012. It's 2012. If their families get over it. Yeah. Yeah. Gay people exist.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. They did.

Tony Maietta:
You know? They didn't just pop up after Stonewall. They've been around

Brad Shreve:
forever. And to set this up for folks, Scotty was born in 1923

Tony Maietta:
ish. Oh, good for you.

Brad Shreve:
He was a marine in World War 2. People kinda use the term hero loosely, but he served in 3 major battles, including one of the Iwo Jima. So I'm gonna say he was a hero.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I think so. I think anybody serves as a hero as far as yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Certainly. Certainly. Absolutely. And now after the war And

Tony Maietta:
his brother was killed.

Brad Shreve:
His brother was killed, which was very tragic to Scotty, is one of the few times I've seen him actually get emotionally in a in in a sad way. Mhmm. After the war, he instead of going home to Illinois, he went to Los Angeles, and as he said, that's what many of the men did after, World War 2. Mhmm. So in 1940 6, he started working at the Richfield gas station in Hollywood Boulevard on Hollywood Boulevard as a gas station attendant.

Tony Maietta:
Hollywood and Van Ness for anybody who's anybody's in the area. Hollywood and Van Ness. There's now a

Brad Shreve:
Big beautiful fire station there.

Tony Maietta:
Beautiful fire station.

Brad Shreve:
And for those of you not familiar with Hollywood, just to give you a perspective, it's a half a mile from Hollywood and Vine and about 1 and a half miles from Grauman's Chinese Theatre and about the same distance from Paramount. So right there in the midst of Hollywood.

Tony Maietta:
Hard Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Is where this gas station is. Yeah. And I looked those up specifically so I can give people perspective of where this place was.

Tony Maietta:
This is but this is interesting because you and I have talked about the changing face of Hollywood. Just think about the Hollywood of today. Can you imagine a star the caliber of a Cary Grant driving into a gas station on Hollywood Boulevard today? I mean, just think about that. These stars were in Hollywood. I mean, it's, like, Cary Grant's driving George Cukor is driving up to a gas station in shit Hollywood. I mean, Shreve but that's how much different

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. There are also. That's amazing. Hollywood today is a what's what's the it's not a

Tony Maietta:
cesspool. Well,

Brad Shreve:
no. I'm talking about the the when people talk about Hollywood, it's more of a

Tony Maietta:
Oh, yeah. It's a state of mind.

Brad Shreve:
State of mind. Because the city of Hollywood or, actually, it's not a city. It's never been a city. It's, maybe back, I think, in very, very, like, the early 1900, it may have been a city. But it's been LA ever since. It's a neighbor. It's a community. And

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. LA absorbed.

Brad Shreve:
It used to, you know, used to have luxury hotels. I mean, if you remember Lucy and Ricky in the fifties that they stayed in Hollywood when they went to Hollywood and have that beautiful apartment that are like, everything in just, you know, Hollywood in the movies is just like, Paris and, all the movies. Yes. Everything in Paris overlooks the Eiffel Tower. Well, of course, everything in Hollywood overlooks the Hollywood sign, at least in the movies and TV. And, it's not that way anymore. It's it's a cesspool. I mean, you walk down the street.

Brad Shreve:
Shreve you walk down the avenue of the stars. You see drug deals going on. You see, tourists all looking at the stars, and they're excited to see those. But they also see them looking around like, what the?

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It's something we've talked about how depressing

Brad Shreve:
it is. It's pretty depressed. And Mickey Rooney Pretty depressed. Who we talked about in the breakfast at Tiffany's, and I'm not a huge fan of Mickey Rooney. For years, he did work very hard to try restore Hollywood to what it once was. He didn't succeed as we know.

Tony Maietta:
Right. He didn't. Clearly, he didn't.

Brad Shreve:
But that was a big mission of his.

Tony Maietta:
I keep thinking that it's probably and this is not gonna be a bad thing. It might go to the way of it probably it is probably going to the other way of 42nd Street, you know, and then it becomes a Disneyland, which I don't know good or bad.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. And

Tony Maietta:
You know, if that's it. You know, that's I it's it ain't it ain't happened yet. I'll tell you right now. It ain't happened yet.

Brad Shreve:
But And, you know, everybody's heard about Hollywood and Vine. You're you're all from you're probably since the beginning of time that was Hollywood. There's also Hollywood and Highland, which is where the Dolby Theatre, which is where the academy it the Dolby now? Like, who bought it? Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
You're right. It was

Brad Shreve:
originally Dolby, wasn't it?

Tony Maietta:
It was originally the Kodak.

Brad Shreve:
Okay. It was the Kodak there. Now it's the Dolby Theatre, and it's where Gromit's Chinese Theatre is as well. Yeah. They are a mile apart from each other.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And and so there's a nice development now in Hollywood and Highland, and there's a nice new development now at Hollywood and Vine. And the goal was that good development would grow between the 2. And we're talking about good development. We're talking about Times Square. Yeah. All the major chains. Yeah. You know, plan in Hollywood and all those others, you know, all the usual chains that you see in all the tourist spots and all the usual things.

Brad Shreve:
But at least, you know, right at least it would be better. Right now, it's all pawn shops between the 2. Yeah. So it hasn't happened yet.

Tony Maietta:
Hasn't. But his the gas station was 1 you said a mile away from Hollywood and Vine about?

Brad Shreve:
It was a half a mile from Hollywood and Vine.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And and so he's working at this gas station, and movie stars, the very first one, Walter Pigeon, who for people who don't know Walter Pigeon was, he was in missus Miniver, and they probably won't know what missus Miniver is. Walter Pigeon was a leading man, I think it's safe to say, in the thirties and forties. He transitioned into a character actor. For our gay friends out there, he played Florence Florenz Ziegfeld in the film of Funny Girl. So if you don't know who Walter Pigeon is, that's Walter Pigeon. And Walter Pigeon was a a a major star in the forties. I mean, missus Miniver was a huge film.

Tony Maietta:
So he drives in in his convertible and meets this good looking gas station attendant just out of the out of the war and invites him to his house to go for a swim because that's what you do when you're a movie star, getting gas in Hollywood. You invite the gas station attendant to come on up to the hill and it's such a hot day. Let's take a swim. So, of course, Scotty being the industrious person he was, got in the car and went and took a swim and then some. And that's how it all started.

Brad Shreve:
Tony, I'm stopping our conversation real quick.

Tony Maietta:
Why? Why, Brett? We're we're in the middle of a podcast.

Brad Shreve:
But this is about the podcast, and it's very important.

Tony Maietta:
Okay.

Brad Shreve:
Listener, whatever app you're listening on, whether it's on the computer or on the phone, reach your finger or your mouse over. It usually says follow, some still say subscribe, and click that. And what's gonna happen when they do that, Tony?

Tony Maietta:
They're gonna get notified when a new episode is available, and they can listen to us again. Know, you don't wanna miss that. No. Can we get back to the episode that we were recording?

Brad Shreve:
Of course. Please? Of course.

Tony Maietta:
Alright. Thank you. Don't forget to subscribe and follow.

Brad Shreve:
There you go. We haven't talked about profanity here. How far do we wanna go?

Tony Maietta:
Well, I I've already said I've already dropped the f bomb, haven't I?

Brad Shreve:
Okay. Good. That's I I just wanna make sure because I'm I have no problem with that.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah. Well, Scotty has Okay.

Brad Shreve:
Because Scotty uses fuck a lot. So

Tony Maietta:
He also did it a lot too.

Brad Shreve:
He talks about giving blowjobs a lot. So

Tony Maietta:
but yeah. So he got like

Brad Shreve:
So so, anyway, go back to go back to where you were.

Tony Maietta:
So that's how it started, and he got about $20, and it soon became a cottage industry, this this gas station. I mean, he got all of his buddies who were when he realized what a lucrative opportunity this was, he got his buddies who recently out of the army, out of the marines, who didn't have jobs. You know? They they served their country, and they're they have no money. And it became a small cottage industry out of this gas station in the middle of Hollywood where he would actually where these he would set these up. He would set these trysts up in in quite a little cottage industry.

Brad Shreve:
And what Scotty says in the film is he told this these guys, they were all good looking guys, and he's like and I guess at least a good percentage of them were straight according to him. He's like Mhmm. It's 20. He said everything was $20 no matter what it is. It's always $20. He's like No matter

Tony Maietta:
what it was.

Brad Shreve:
He's like, they can they just wanna blow give you a blowjob. He's like, shut your eyes. Pretend it's your girlfriend, and you get $20 $20 for blow job. And that's kinda how it started into this whole

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It's it's quite amazing. And he made connection. I mean, his connections just grew and grew and grew, and he eventually ended up you know, people obviously, Walter Pigeon talked because the next thing you know, George Cukor was driving in and, Cary Grant was driving in. I mean, so it's it's pretty astounding. I mean, the thing about Scotty's story and the thing that I think it the your first my first reaction was, is this real? Is this true? Can this really could this really have happened? You know, because our idea of what Hollywood was and what it really was are so different. And, you know, after you watch this film or if you read Scotty's book full service or you watch this film which we're talking about today, I believe him. The man does not have a this doesn't seem to have a deceitful bone in his body except to himself.

Tony Maietta:
The only person he deceives is himself Oh, yeah. He about things, which we can go into later about his past. But, he he just he I can't see a reason why he would make such a bold face statement if it weren't true.

Brad Shreve:
I will say I believe most of it is true, especially since there were so many there there were so many people involved in this. There were other guys hustling with him or doing sex work with him.

Tony Maietta:
And they're in

Brad Shreve:
the film, and they're in

Tony Maietta:
the film,

Brad Shreve:
and they

Tony Maietta:
corroborate what he says.

Brad Shreve:
And if this was a lot of lies, even though the celebrities are dead, some people would have came forward and said, this is bullshit.

Tony Maietta:
Mhmm.

Brad Shreve:
And I have seen a couple of small articles, but not anything substantial. I will say there are and we'll get into it. Most of it, I believe, at towards the end, he started really getting into more stories. Well, I'll say it. Like, he talked about when he was a young boy Yeah. That he was hooking up his lesbian

Tony Maietta:
His lesbian teacher at the age of 11.

Brad Shreve:
And there were other things like that. I'm like, okay. You know, this is starting to get past believability here because he pretty much pretty much made it sound like everybody was was fucking everybody. And Yeah. Yeah. It is Hollywood. Hollywood is known for its pretty crazy days, and and he talks about how it used to be very conservative, and it was, But he does stretch it a bit to me. I don't know if I believe all of it.

Brad Shreve:
I do believe most of it. Mhmm. I do believe most of it. And Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
I know the 11 year old pimping out is yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Especially his age low, if he was he he was probably around 10 ish, she said. So we're talking about in the mid thirties.

Tony Maietta:
He said he was 11, 11, 12.

Brad Shreve:
Okay. So, yeah, it would have been the mid thirties, and he has a a teacher who he happens to know as a lesbian, and he's pimping around, pimping people out there. I don't know. That kinda stretches it, especially because he was a small town.

Tony Maietta:
But if you notice, he also says when, Matt, the filmmaker asked him, how old were you? And he goes, I was 11. Because he was talking about he was talking about the girl he was hooking up with at 11, and then it's revealed that, well, he's been sexually active. He was basically groomed by a neighbor when he was 6 or 7 years old. And the thing about Scotty is is that he doesn't see anything wrong with that. He doesn't it doesn't occur to him. He keeps saying I wanted it. I, you know, I wanted it to happen. I wanted it, and it's like, but but you're at 6 and 7.

Tony Maietta:
You don't even know. I mean, that's just it doesn't occur to him. Yeah. And is that is that denial? Is that you know, is he just saying is that that's trauma. He doesn't realize it, but are we judging that? I mean, I don't know. It's a very strange thing, his reaction to the fact that he was molested and sexually assaulted at so young.

Brad Shreve:
I watched this with my husband, Maurice, and when he was talking about being molested at or what we consider being molested at that age. And that no. It's no big deal. I don't know why people make a big deal. He and I were just cringey. Like

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It is it is kinda cringey. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
First of all, it doesn't make our community look very good. Second of all, it's it is creepy.

Tony Maietta:
It's very creepy. It's very cringey. It's very wrong. But if you notice, it was married men and priests who were molesting him. So I don't Yeah. I do not take that on our, quote, unquote, community. I take that on, you know, homophobia. The guy the the first guy he talks about in the film who molested him was his neighbor who was married and had kids that he played with.

Tony Maietta:
And then he the the second guy was a priest, and he serviced a lot of priests in Chicago. So it's just like, okay. Well, there you go, Catholic church. Well done again.

Brad Shreve:
And I'm gonna say my theory on priests. If you're if you're devout Catholic and you're told that being gay is a sin and you shouldn't act upon it, you become a priest because True. Then you don't have to act out sexually.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. That's it. Exactly. Try

Brad Shreve:
not to.

Tony Maietta:
You try not to.

Brad Shreve:
Obviously, not many have succeeded at that.

Tony Maietta:
We know what happens. So so, anyway, that's all within saying that he's very yeah. If he's if he's in denial about anything, he's in denial about about what that might have done to his psyche, but it also enabled him to do what he did later in his life with such ease and nonjudgment. You know? He's the most nonjudgmental person, you know, I've ever I've ever seen.

Brad Shreve:
And well, that that is for sure. I mean and I love it when somebody he said, you know, people ask, you know, what because he, he's married to a woman during this film, and he have he was married before, and he talks about all the sex with men. And he said, you know, people ask me what I am. I'm I'm everything. Or does he say I'm nothing? Either one. I think he says I'm everything. I think

Tony Maietta:
he says I'm everything.

Brad Shreve:
I'm everything.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. What's interesting about the film as opposed to the book is the film is his life after the book came out. And his wife is plays a big part in the film, and she didn't know anything about this when they got married. Can you imagine? And she says at one point, she says, if I had known about this, maybe I wouldn't have gotten married. And she looks right at him. You know? And it's so there's a great deal of pain with her.

Brad Shreve:
And I don't I I agree with you. I mean, she seems pained throughout this whole thing. I mean, she does not seem happy. But my feeling is Shreve whether she cared or not, he didn't give her the opportunity to decide whether Exactly. And that's where she seemed most concerned about.

Tony Maietta:
He comes out with this major bestseller. Plus he's a hoarder. Plus they can't even move. I mean, that's

Brad Shreve:
Oh, god.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. That's the thing. I was listening to somebody who was talking about the film, and they they said that, you know, it's he's kind of like it's kind of like Grey Gardens, which, of course, my back went up. I was like, what are you saying about Gregg Gardens? Don't tell me about Gregg Gardens. Yeah. But, he's kinda living like Gregg Gardens and the fact that he's hoarding. I mean, you can't even move in his he has, like, 3 houses, you know, in in storage spaces.

Brad Shreve:
And That he he inherited different things. And,

Tony Maietta:
So this guy clearly has some mental challenges.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, big time.

Tony Maietta:
You know? It's like an episode of Hoarders, some of that, some of those visits. He goes to his storage units, and he's like, oh, you never know when you're gonna use this. And he's he's picking up toilets on the side of the street. I'm like, you don't need Hey. You have a New York Times bestseller. Why are you getting a toilet?

Brad Shreve:
Up the street. Picking up toilets on the side of the street, and and he says, in case I need 1. Like, when the fuck do you need a toilet? You're gonna keep a toilet lying around in case you need 1 someday?

Tony Maietta:
It's like hoarder's textbook 101.

Brad Shreve:
Yes, you

Tony Maietta:
know in case I need it. You never know when you might need this

Brad Shreve:
and the other thing.

Tony Maietta:
So yeah, his

Brad Shreve:
wife keeps talking about how run down the house has gotten and keep pointing out this this rotten porch they're on and Scotty just sold this best salary. He's he's he does have a lot of money. He's he's inherited money from different people. He knew You wouldn't know it from what what he lives in. Of course, I don't know how well he spent it. But even down to they had problems on the roof, he's 90 something. He's 91, I think, when this film was made.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, he he's 88 when the book came out.

Brad Shreve:
So I think he was 91. Some 90, we'll say.

Tony Maietta:
He was yes. He has his 90th birthday party. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
He has his 90th

Tony Maietta:
birthday party. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
And he's climbing he's talking about how much in pain he is, and he's climbing up this ladder to the roof Yeah. To do work up on the roof, and he's trimming his own palm trees. When I had my house at 35 years old, I didn't trim my own palm Shreve, for god's sakes. I hired a guy to climb up there.

Tony Maietta:
You know what the best

Brad Shreve:
He's so cheap, he won't do it. He keeps saying that

Tony Maietta:
I don't that might not be cheapness. That might also be denial of age because I can my father would climb ladders at 8990, and we my mother would say, get down from that ladder, and he wouldn't do it because he was, damn it, He's gonna do it. He could still do it. And Scotty says that I can still do this. So that's also I think that might also be denial of age.

Brad Shreve:
Well, the other thing he says is, I know I can do better than they do, which really fit his personality.

Tony Maietta:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
That really fit his personality that you saw throughout the film.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. Oh, of course. Yes. Well, he's total control freak.

Brad Shreve:
So to give you folks an idea of his operation, in case you haven't seen the film or read the book, this this wasn't just a guy standing there in a gas station, you know, pointing people in directions. In the back of the gas station, there was a trailer, and that trailer was divided by curtains into 2 separate rooms with king-size beds. So he would rent people out to go there and have sex. He put a not necessarily a glory hole, it didn't sound like, but more of a peephole in the bathroom

Tony Maietta:
Peephole.

Brad Shreve:
Where you could pay

Tony Maietta:
For people who like to watch.

Brad Shreve:
Sit on the toilet and and watch and not just watch watch guys peeing, but also watch guys that were in the bathroom having sex at the same time. Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
He had a he had a friend, he what did he say? An old queen who had a hotel across the Shreve.

Brad Shreve:
He said my my friend was an old queen who had a hotel across the street and would say, okay. I've got this room, this room, this room, $5, you know, whenever somebody wants to come use it. So this was a this was a major operation.

Tony Maietta:
And it would go to people's homes.

Brad Shreve:
And it would go to people's homes.

Tony Maietta:
Not just the homes. The hotels. I mean, he talks about going to the Beverly Hills Hotel, to the bungalows because you can get to the bungalows right off the street, which is still true today. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
And they would do parties and

Tony Maietta:
You know, he was he would, go to people's homes. He was became the thing that the thing that I find really fascinating about this, the sex aside, is how close he became to these people. I mean, he became close not only, did not only trick, quote, unquote, with George q corp. They became friends. They became friends to the point where he became close with Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy, I mean, who were close to Q Corp. Spencer Tracy lived on Q Corp's estate in a guest house. He didn't live with Hepburn. That's a myth.

Tony Maietta:
They did not live together there. He that was his. Hepburn would visit. But he would, you know and there's also stories about him, and you and I touched on this a bit the last time I was on Queer We Are about Hepburn and Tracy's relationship and was it real, wasn't it it real? And, you know, he says quite frankly that Hepburn was a lesbian, you know. She never would have thought of herself as a lesbian, but he says, you know, he set her up with women, a lot of women, throughout their career.

Brad Shreve:
And that's something I wanna bring up because you did bring that up. My other podcast is Query Are, and that's how Tony and I met. And you described the situation because I I've I I love Katharine Hepburn. And you said and I and I brought up the fact that, you know, over the what the the story has always been that you hear is that either she was married or he was married, and and that's why they never got together even though they loved each other for so many years and I'm I'm maybe I'm maybe wrong. I think you said maybe there probably was love in the beginning, but it turned into more of a friendship over time. Yes. Yes. And that's kind of what Scotty says, except Scotty goes on to describe that Spencer Tracy was, if nothing else, bisexual.

Brad Shreve:
Mhmm. Sounds more like he was homosexual the way Scotty kinda into that. Mhmm. Catherine Hepburn, was lesbian, and I'm like, okay. I don't know that Tony didn't talk about that part.

Tony Maietta:
No. Well, this and I but I I think I what I did talk about when we did where we are is that you you can't take our 21st century ideals of what sexuality is and impose them on early to mid 20th century. It just isn't that you know, no one was gay. You can do gay straight. He talks about the spectrum of sexuality. Hepburn definitely Hepburn never would have considered herself a lesbian because the term lesbian would not have ever occurred to her because she had she had affairs with men. She had a long affair with Howard Hughes. She had she was married briefly.

Tony Maietta:
She was in love with Spencer Tracy when they first met. When they first met on Woman of the Year, you know, as I said to you in Queer We Are, you'd all you have to do is watch Woman of the Year. The chemistry is undeniable. I mean, they see each other, and it's like a bomb goes off. I mean, you see it in their eyes. So there was definitely a physical at the very beginning that probably because she was, you know, bisexual or she didn't like women and developed into a romantic friendship regardless of fact they were there for each other. It doesn't matter if they were sleeping together or not in the end. It was not this great long, decades long romantic relationship, though, that Hepburn herself perpetuated after he died.

Tony Maietta:
That's all on her. So it makes perfect sense to me that he she still sought saw some women because she she needed that kind of she he didn't give that to her. He didn't he didn't give what her what she needed. She needed something obviously from women that a close relationship with a woman can provide. And here's the thing I think is interesting about Tracy is that everyone always says, well, you know, no one can understand why he drank. Why why was he drinking? You know, she she questions why is he drinking? Why is he drinking? He's, you know, he's the biggest, he's the actor's actor. No one no one was more respected in Hollywood by his peers than Spencer Tracy was. Why is this man so tortured? Well, it makes perfect sense to me that if you're Catholic and you're married and you find you have attraction to men and everyone is telling you that's wrong and you're gonna burn in hell, of course, you're a little tortured.

Tony Maietta:
So it that actually makes a lot of sense to me that I don't think that Tracy was homosexual. I think probably had homosexual tendencies and was afraid of this attraction he had which made him drink and made him ornery and made him because he also had affairs with women in addition to Hepburn. So it's really fascinating, but I think that's one of the reasons why I went, oh, I think there might be some truth to this story because that makes perfect sense to me about Tracy.

Brad Shreve:
Well, as an alcoholic, I'm thinking, well, people become alcoholics for reasons that there don't always have to be a reason.

Tony Maietta:
No. It's a disease. I agree with you.

Brad Shreve:
But but he doesn't sound like he was an alcoholic. Yeah. And that's that is not for me to judge, but it sounds more like he had a drinking problem, which is it's different.

Tony Maietta:
Well, he would he would go on binges. He would disappear. He would go on binges. He was, you know, when Scotty talks about in the movie that he would, you know, that's when he would have sex. I heard someone referred to him as a blow and go guy. I guess that's what the kids are calling it now. One of these guys has said to Christ, you know, and they'd say to the boys in the band, Christ, I was so drunk last night. I don't remember what happened.

Tony Maietta:
And that was always that was Tracy's MO with Scotty was he would invite you know, Scotty would come over just to spend time with him, and they would drink or Tracy would drink. And then he would say, you know, don't go hang out with me. And then, of course, one thing led to another. And the next morning, nobody remembered anything. Well, Scotty remembered it, and he wrote it down clearly in his book. You were

Brad Shreve:
talking about his friendships believability. What he said is if he was just pimping out and and having sex, it would be one thing. But the fact that he pretty much puts himself as really hanging out and having these great friendships with all these people, it seems to me like it would have come out a little more than it did.

Tony Maietta:
Oh, you mean what do you mean? People would know about it?

Brad Shreve:
It wouldn't be such a big secret. Yeah. More people would know about it. It wouldn't be such a hidden secret.

Tony Maietta:
Well, I think people did know about it. I think it's I mean, he was an urban legend for many, many years. I remember hearing about him before I ever I met him I went to Tony Charmely, who is the director, whose house he goes to, who has the Emmys, and when he points out the Emmys, Tony Charmely was a director, a choreographer Yep. Award winning work for Mitzi Gaynor and Debbie Reynolds. And Tony Charmely would have these parties, and Scotty was a good friend of Tony Charmely's. And I can remember being at a party, a 4th July party, and I didn't know who Scotty was, but he was there. And, you know, there was this urban legend about this guy who was basically they called him the pimp to the stars, but he wasn't. He claims he wasn't a pimp.

Tony Maietta:
So it was out there, but just like the stories of these it just wasn't out there in Peoria. It just wasn't out there in Chicago. It was known in Hollywood. So he's kind of like an an urban myth, an urban legend that came to life when he wrote this book. People had been urging him to write this book, but he didn't you know, for whatever reason, no normal reasons, he was hesitant because he want people to say exactly what they said, like, how can you do this? So, yeah, he was around. He was around. What I think is interesting though, and this is the thing too, you because I'm my my thought too was when he's talking about these friendships with these people, with Cecil Beaton, of all people. Cecil Beaton and Laurence Olivier and Vivien Leigh and the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.

Tony Maietta:
But if you think about it for a minute, if you see a way to get an itch scratched, which you're just dying to get this itch scratched, and somebody's offering you a way which is easy and reliable and is not gonna cause a fuss, you're gonna go to that. So, naturally, he was embraced because they knew they trusted him, and they knew they could get their needs satisfied very easily with this man. So, of

Brad Shreve:
course,

Tony Maietta:
they're gonna raise him. You know? It's it's it kinda makes sense when you really think about it.

Brad Shreve:
And you do touch on one thing that they do bring up a lot, and I will say the people that, I don't wanna say worked for him, the other guys that he hooked up with other

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Other celebrities that that are still alive. There there were some of the guys that were that pimping out whether when we use that term or not that he never would have said anything and that's why he had these people's trust and he said when when he was confronted, like, why are, you know, you're selling this book? And he said Right. If any of these people were alive, I wouldn't take a dime for it. And and it came back people really Shreve the people that were around him were like, Scotty never talked.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I don't know that he could have gotten these people to corroborate his stories. You know what I mean? On film. You know, those those two gentlemen, the the guy it's so funny. The one who talked about Paul Lin. Yes. You know, being, you know, how how mean he was, which I've always heard about Paul Lin.

Tony Maietta:
There's another thing between Paul Lin.

Brad Shreve:
Had drinking problems. So Yeah. Definitely. Get nasty. Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
He was a mean out, but he was also a closeted gay man.

Brad Shreve:
Paul Lin was gay?

Tony Maietta:
That closet was like, you know, the the sports arena. It was so big. No. I think that, the other thing that makes that to me lends credibility to Scotty's story is that he also brings up people like Paul in, like Charles Laughton, who we know were gay, who was documented. It's not just Scotty. So he peppers his the bombshells of a of a, Tracy and Hepburn with, or or or a with a Cole Porter, with a Charles Laughton, you know, with people that we know were gay, and I think that's or a Rock Hudson. God knows. You know, we're we we we're at this point right now where we forget what a bombshell it was that Rock Hudson was gay to most of the world Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
When he died. But I remember that, and I remember that people were shocked, you know, but they weren't in Hollywood. They knew it. You know?

Brad Shreve:
Well, yeah. It's it was so well known in Hollywood. There there have been rumors that Rock Hudson and, Jim Nabors

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I remember that.

Brad Shreve:
Were married. And the reason why that rumor exists was back late sixties, early seventies, way before Rock Hudson was outed by Armistead Maupin. The reason that rumor existed, there were these guys that had parties every year, and they always made up what the party was. There was, like, this is about party to celebrate such and such. Mhmm. And 1 year, they said it was because Rock Hudson and Jim Nabors were it was to celebrate their their marriage.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
And it's because it was that well known. Everybody knew that both of those men were gay. Yeah. So you're right. None of this was a secret.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. And he peppers in there, you know, the the Cary Grant and Randolph Scott thing, which you and I briefly discussed.

Brad Shreve:
You mean the swinging bachelors in their pads?

Tony Maietta:
The swinging bachelor pads, you know, which were clearly, like they were publicity photos, so they were no proof. You know? It wasn't it at all. But, yeah, Cary Grant and we talked about this. Cary Grant lived with Ori Kelly, who was a very famous costume designer when he was Archie Leach in New York. You know? And, Ori Kelly talks about it in his book. You know? It's just people live long lives and have lots of experiences. And, you know, it's just it's it's really kind of naive of us to buy the the the bait that Hollywood throws us about these people's lives. They were artists.

Tony Maietta:
Artists are crazy. You know? They're normal people, but they're crazy. They have appetites. It's crazy to think they're living in, you know, these little suburban scenarios. And I think Scotty kinda blew the lid off that.

Brad Shreve:
And one thing he brought up that seemed did seem very real to me is he did bring up that, Cary Grant and Ori Kelly were a couple, and that he dropped Mhmm. Ori like a rock when he met Randolph Scott because of the reason that Ori Kelly was known to be gay. He was flamboyant, and it was no secret.

Tony Maietta:
Right.

Brad Shreve:
And to protect himself and probably because he was attracted to Randolph Scott, the guy was pretty hot.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah, I think Scott Scotty gets I think Scotty gets his time Cary Grant broke up with Aurea Kelly long before he met Randolph Scott. So, I mean, Cary Grant, that ended because, as I said to you and and where we are, you know, Cary Grant's aim, primarily objective in life, was Cary Grant.

Brad Shreve:
Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
And when he when he came to Hollywood, he realized, you know, with the production code coming into force and the conservatives the conservative attitude really clamping down on him that he needed to be with a woman. So he married Virginia Cheryl. His first wife was Virginia Cheryl, who was in Charlie Chaplin's City Lights. So that was the Horry Kelly thing was long over before he met Randolph Scott. But he his point is accurate.

Brad Shreve:
Well, he he was 90. We can forgive him.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. I mean, his and his point's accurate, though. It's true. It's true that he you know, Cary Grant was probably like, I'm Cary Grant. I'm not gonna be with this this guy, you know. He it's, it it's accurate in its what did we just say that I said I hated? It's it's, it's truthful. It's not necessarily accurate, but it's truthful, you know

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Which, you know, this is we were just talking about, the terrible version of this book that Ryan Murphy put out called Hollywood, which really bothered me because it totally took Scotty out of the equation, which made me so sad because Scotty's life is so amazing clearly by this movie that we're talking about and by his book. Why, you know, why would you take him out of the equation? But he did.

Brad Shreve:
And I wanna I wanna get into some of the more people that he claims that, he hooked up or had sex with. Mhmm. But to give people an idea how much, for lack of a better term, respect Scotty had or how much people the I don't know if it was the the, publishing party for his book or whatever. The movie opens up, and he's at Shatar Marmont with this huge crowd of people on a, on a, an event they held for him. It was his birthday. Actually, it

Tony Maietta:
was his birthday. It was his birthday. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
On this patio. And to give you an idea, if you can stay there for 600 night, you're getting a deal.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. That's something.

Brad Shreve:
This is this is no slouch of a of a hotel. So that cost a pretty penny.

Tony Maietta:
That did cost a pretty penny, and there was a lot of people, a lot of people a lot of old Hollywood there, not necessarily names that you would recognize immediately, but, I mean, I saw Carol Cook there. I saw a couple people there that I that I recognized. So, I mean, he was

Brad Shreve:
I saw a lot of plastic surgery.

Tony Maietta:
Well, that was yeah. It was it was kind of the theme when they would have these parties. How about the cocktail party that he was working? He was the cocktail host for, where he was working and the party that was later, and you saw a lot of that too. It's it's, you know, it's a fact of Hollywood, you know, unfortunately. Nobody wants to grow older. That's just the way it is. But he he's pretty remarkable at 90, 92 when this film was made. He just I I really admire his, how brave he was is and just in his personal life, not and his nonjudgment.

Tony Maietta:
Yes. I think there's problems there with what he had in his past and his his his but it's his life. You know what? It's his life. He gets to write the story. We don't.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah and I already mentioned he he made me sad in many ways and and we can even get more into that. We've kinda mentioned him and we can get more into him, But he he is. It's just like no judgment in this guy. None. None. It's beautiful.

Tony Maietta:
What a great thing. Right? What a what a what a what a if we could all live that way, it might have been caused by trauma, but the result was was that he, at least in his take, he gave a lot he helped a lot of people out, and he was just nonjudgmental about people.

Brad Shreve:
And he's a people pleaser. So

Tony Maietta:
He's a people total people pleaser.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. He's a people pleaser. So he for you know, there could be lots of reasons why somebody's a people pleaser, but he he he didn't seem like he heard a fly. So

Tony Maietta:
No. It's kind of remarkable to me to me too that he survived AIDS. That to me, I when when when AIDS came along with in this story, I was like, oh god.

Brad Shreve:
Well, he said he was lucky. I I, you know, I I wasn't out during the AIDS crisis. I wasn't, I wasn't, celibate. We'll put it that way, but I wasn't out. But, you know, I I am numerous friends that survived the AIDS crisis, and, some of them survived with AIDS or with HIV, but some didn't catch it all. And like he said, they're lucky. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
They're lucky. Some people just got lucky. He also said that destroyed his business

Tony Maietta:
Well

Brad Shreve:
because it just wasn't safe anymore.

Tony Maietta:
It might have been time to retire too. I mean, he was he was doing other things, but, yeah, he was bar I can't believe he still bartended at 90. I mean, I god. My bartending days were way long ago, and, I'm no not near 90 yet. Not yet.

Brad Shreve:
I find it really interesting that, as we mentioned, that he said he wasn't he was everything because he was so bisexual. And he he does list off Walter Pigeon and Charles Lawton and Spencer Tracy.

Tony Maietta:
No. Cowher.

Brad Shreve:
And he talks about having, women hook up with Katharine Hepburn, but he also talks about having sex with other women. Because in addition to saying he had a three way with Randolph Scott and Rock Hudson, which I initially thought, well, god, did they really have to have Shreve ways with them? They they went to these parties. But if you saw the pictures of Scotty when he was in that era, he he was no slouch.

Tony Maietta:
No.

Brad Shreve:
So he was pretty hot.

Tony Maietta:
He was. Yes.

Brad Shreve:
And, and gifted. Yes. Bless, we

Tony Maietta:
call it.

Brad Shreve:
But he also he had a three way with Lana Turner and David Gardner.

Tony Maietta:
That was very

Brad Shreve:
That was?

Tony Maietta:
And that ended up in confidential. See, that's the thing. That ends up at that was an interesting point. I'm glad you brought that up. Confidential Magazine, which was, as he says, very astutely, the National Enquirer of its day, whose goal it was to to expose people's sexual secrets.

Brad Shreve:
Life. You know,

Tony Maietta:
that was the goal. Destroy lives. Liberace sued them. You know, they they Tab Hunter had issues with confidential. Maureen O'Hara sued them. I mean, it's crazy. This magazine was out to destroy lives. And there's that story about the man that the the the night of passion.

Tony Maietta:
Is that what the confidential thing said, that Lana and Ava shared? And it was Scotty, and he refused to sign the you know, verify the accuracy of it.

Brad Shreve:
And they would pay him for it because he said they they did pay other guys to do it.

Tony Maietta:
They paid other guys to do it. Yeah. And he said no. So you gotta admire that. I mean, this man could have I mean, $1,000 in 19 58 or whenever that was, 57, 58. You know, it was quite a chunk of change. And Well, it's a chunk

Brad Shreve:
of change, but, you know, easier than, doing $20.20 a pop for

Tony Maietta:
chips. I mean, come on. You know? Or bartending or all that stuff he did, but he wouldn't do it. And I, you know, I admire that. I admire that. He, yeah. He he was definitely he he had an interesting form of integrity, and I think it's pretty remarkable.

Brad Shreve:
Well, others you said he had sex with were Cary Grant, which I find that believable. Betty Davis and Vivien Leigh.

Tony Maietta:
I I believe that. Yeah. The Vivien Leigh's very funny.

Brad Shreve:
He he he said he did have, sex with J Edgar Hoover, which, the only reason I would question that is, J Edgar Hoover was so in the closet, I think, would be more secretive at the same time. And he also admitted that j Edgar wasn't all that hot of a guy.

Tony Maietta:
Again So

Brad Shreve:
I did believe that.

Tony Maietta:
Scotty could be trusted. You know? That's that's the whole thing. I mean, you know, George Cukor gave him the seal of approval, and he, you know, and he could be trusted. So it makes sense. You know, Tim Gunn talks about in his book you know who Tim Gunn is, right, from from Project Runway. About when he was a kid and he lived in Washington DC, about his father who worked in government bringing him to, to some office building in Washington, DDC on a Saturday to meet Vivian Vance. And he said you know, and he was a kid, and he loved I Love Lucy. And, he met Vivian Vance in Washington.

Tony Maietta:
He started to think later on, why was Vivian Vance in Washington DC? And she didn't look like Vivian Vance. And then later on, he put on, oh, it was J. Edgar Hoover. It was it was actually because his father knew J. Edgar Hoover, and that's who it was, and he was in full drag. So I guess, I think that that's probably I don't know. I hope he paid him well because

Brad Shreve:
whoop. No. Wait. Wait. What year was that?

Tony Maietta:
That would have been in the fifties, the late fifties. Okay.

Brad Shreve:
Because I was gonna say, I've seen early pictures of Vivian Vance, and she was she was gorgeous. But

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't it was fifties or sixties.

Brad Shreve:
Even in fifties when she was she was made to give that frumpy look, she she looked better than J. Edgar Hoover in a way, guys.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Well, I think it was probably early

Brad Shreve:
Yeah.

Tony Maietta:
Early sixties probably when Tim Gunn was or maybe late fifties.

Brad Shreve:
If you squint your eyes.

Tony Maietta:
Well, yeah. And you're a kid. You know? But I mean, I they couldn't have fooled me. I would have known it wasn't Vivian Vance. I mean, like, that's not Vivian Vance. Get out of

Brad Shreve:
here. No.

Tony Maietta:
I can't. Kinda crazy. It's kinda crazy. I thought I mean, I just thought it was interesting. I love the the guys that he had on who he could still get a hold of who had worked for him and how indebted they were to him, how much they loved him still.

Brad Shreve:
They did.

Tony Maietta:
They that one guy I mean, they just adored him and it just makes you question, you know, wow. How could this, what reason would they have if they if he was not telling the truth would they have for doing this? They didn't get any money from this documentary. They weren't, you know, they weren't making a buck from this.

Brad Shreve:
No. They didn't. And and, you know, like one guy said, I I I wasn't that much of a looker. I, you know, I I don't know his exact words, but he he didn't think he was that much of an item. And he Scotty said he was busy as hell.

Tony Maietta:
Help him get that house. He said he got that house. Yeah. So, you know, you gotta be grateful for that.

Brad Shreve:
Well, Scotty bought his house. I don't remember how much he paid said he paid for $22,000, I think, when he bought it. He just Yes. Yes. Just recently sold, not long after he died for, like, 900,000.

Tony Maietta:
And all these places that were left to him. You know, Corbin Burnson's grand, godfather, he lived in that house at the beach, the guy beach he was talking about, who was the kind of the b movie actor, c movie actor who left him

Brad Shreve:
Mhmm.

Tony Maietta:
All these properties. He's Corbin Burnson's, from LA Law. Corbin Burnson's godfather talks about it, and, you know, he was he was he loved Scott. He was in love with Scotty, and he left him all these properties when he died. And he still gets he says he was still getting residual checks from the Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
He was getting residual checks for for different actors and stuff.

Tony Maietta:
Pretty amazing.

Brad Shreve:
Then we talked about Scotty be being kind of a sad character, and that's one of the things that really depressed me here. What what was the what was the man's name that was Corbin Bernsen's? Beach. Beach. Okay. So when Beach died, he said Corbin wanted to rent a yacht and bury him at sea.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
And Scotty said, that's bullshit. No. We're not gonna do that. And so for decades, it sounds like, Beach's ashes were in the trunk of a car in a garage.

Tony Maietta:
In a storage unit. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
In a storage unit. And towards the end of the film, what Scotty did with these ashes was he opened up the bag, and he I took the bag out of the box, I think, for the first time.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
He cut open the bag, and then there was a crack.

Tony Maietta:
A hole. Hole.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. A hole in the patio because it's so old and rotten. He just dumped the ashes through this hole and started hosing it down with a hose. And I'm like,

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Nothing really seemed he seemed very unemotional. It it was and I'm like, Corbin Grannon, maybe he didn't need a burial at sea, but Corbin wanted to bury the man at sea, and you're just

Tony Maietta:
It's yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Flushing him practically flushing him down the toilet. Not exactly. But Yeah. I I found that very sad. He talked about his daughter that his daughter died from having a botched abortion when it was illegal, which obviously very tragic. And he said I was on my way to Malibu, and I'm you know, I just continue what I was doing. I don't get this bullshit people saying they're sick and don't don't fulfill their duties.

Tony Maietta:
Well, there was definitely a There

Brad Shreve:
was very sad.

Tony Maietta:
Definitely a disconnect there. There's definitely a disassociation, and I'm not a psychiatrist, psychologist. I can't tell you what trauma does to when you have a young life in your life when you have young when you're young, you have trauma. But, I mean, it makes perfect sense to me, you know, that kind of disassociation.

Brad Shreve:
And that's it does. And it's funny because, Maurice and I watched it, and then we discussed it together, and we both had the same feelings because he seemed very unemotional through the whole thing. I talked about the ashes. I talked about his he's he said he went to work with when his daughter died because you that's what you do. But when he talked about his brother dying in the war Mhmm. It was the first time he really showed emotion. He was he was crying, and you could tell he was fighting balling.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
That was the first time I saw real emotion there.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. That was a very moving scene. But is it about maybe it was the youth thing. Maybe it was because he was just a kid himself when that happened. I I

Brad Shreve:
it may have been the youth thing. I think it also would have been that Scotty was very active in the war as well, and his brother was actually in the war shorter than he was. And Scotty survived these big battles.

Tony Maietta:
It could also be the tie with his brother. You know, I'm, you know, I'm a I'm a jaded ex actor and gay actor in Hollywood. You know, I don't get you know, the silliest things get me emotional, but I tell you the one thing that does get me emotional is anytime I talk about my parents. You know, it's it's that it's that bond which is so primal from when you're a child, and I think that he might have had that with his brother because of what they went through. I mean, I don't know. I'm like I said, I'm not a psychologist. I don't understand, you know, what makes him get emotional about that as as opposed to his daughter, you know, who he clearly states he wasn't there enough. You know?

Brad Shreve:
He didn't

Tony Maietta:
he he but he keeps but he keeps everything the same. You noticed that her phone was still there.

Brad Shreve:
And not only was her phone still there, he said it was still connected.

Tony Maietta:
Still connected.

Brad Shreve:
In this house that he doesn't even live in anymore.

Tony Maietta:
Doesn't go into. He only goes into 1 in the clock.

Brad Shreve:
But he has not disconnected that phone.

Tony Maietta:
Clearly, a trouble a man with a lot of issues, a lot of lot of issues. Yeah. It's a field day for a psychologist, I think.

Brad Shreve:
Oh my god. Yes.

Tony Maietta:
But it's also kind of kind of wonderful. The the effects of it in the nonjudgmental thing is the plus side to it, the the good side to it. The bad side is all this other stuff we're talking about.

Brad Shreve:
And that probably helped him with his business. I mean, he he was emotionally detached.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, life's like a doctor. And doctor, I don't know. Not a great comparison, but, you know, doctors have to be emotionally detached to do what they do. I'm sure. So he it served him well in his business and, you know, in his life, maybe not so much sometimes.

Brad Shreve:
So I I wanna get your final take on it. We kind of both have talked about where we feel, but here's my gut on the reality of Scotty's story. Like the Horry Kelly and the Cary Grant story where you you said that you know, he said that, Shreve dropped Shreve

Tony Maietta:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
To get with Randolph Scott, and you said, no. There were gaps. There was a huge gap there between those those years. I think he gets some things confused. So I don't believe everything that he said. I believe the vast majority of it's true. I I I refuse to accept that all of this is made up because it would be exposed very easily. And And so difficult.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. But I do think a lot of it is embellished. That's my opinion. Mhmm. Because there was just too much to just I just felt like email like, that everybody in Hollywood was was his friend, and everybody in Hollywood was having sex and and the whole background with the teacher and and all that. I I feel like that was all embellished whether he meant to or not. I don't know what your take is.

Tony Maietta:
No. I see what you're saying. I feel like like many things, you know, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You know? Yes. I think that he it's very difficult, and I said this to Jerry when we were writing the book, that, you know, memory is a memory is a very tricky thing. You know? Who who who among us can remember things that happened to the exact detail when we were 16, when we were 17, unless they were hugely traumatic things? So he's going he's he's coming from a perspective of 80 plus years, remembering things that happened

Brad Shreve:
Right.

Tony Maietta:
50, 60 years before. So I think, yeah, his timeline can be off. But, you know, the essence of it, I Shreve, I think is true. I think maybe he got dates mixed up. You know, it's truth versus accuracy, but I can forgive it when it's somebody's life they're remembering as opposed to when you're creating a story in somebody's life. So it's his life he's remembering. You know?

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Yeah. And I agree. And there's so many things I've learned. There there's very little that people can do that shock me.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. But I think the positive thing about this is, and what I love about Scotty Bowerss' book and this movie, Scotty and the Secret History of Hollywood, is taking away the fact that we're all human beings who have needs, who have desires, who have urges, and how wonderful that there was this kind of, like, Peter Pan type character who who who helped these people out in a time when it was not only scary to be your true self, but could get you in jail and could get you killed and could get you in a mental institution. So how wonderful. What a wonderful kind of fairy tale for him. No pun intended.

Brad Shreve:
And back to where I started was whether it's right or not to out people after they're Brad II. Don't remember who the gentleman was. He was interviewed quite a bit. He was he was a gentleman. I think he may have been a film critic or something of that nature he frequently was defending Scotty saying that these are people that couldn't come out at the time, and and Scott's giving, in a sense, giving them free the freedom that they didn't have.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. Yeah. So they couldn't enjoy it at the time. Yeah. You know? That's just an unfortunate fact of Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. You

Tony Maietta:
know? And it's still it's still we talked about this a bit. It's still happening, man. It's still there today. You know? There's a lot more gay actors in Hollywood than are out gay actors. You know? I mean, for every Neil Patrick Harris and every, Russell Tovey, there are dozens who are not out because they know what it could do to their careers. Yeah. Still.

Brad Shreve:
You are a 100% correct there. That is for sure.

Tony Maietta:
Yeah. This was fun. I like talking about Scotty.

Brad Shreve:
It was fun. I really enjoyed this. Yeah. I enjoyed talking about this one. So, again, the link for Tony's website and my website and, the link to for the show's website, which is part of Tony's, as well as our social media are all in the show notes. And,

Tony Maietta:
go watch this movie. It's on Amazon, Scotty and the Secret History of Hollywood.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. It's it's a fun movie. It's it's very well done.

Tony Maietta:
It's wonderful to watch. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening.

Brad Shreve:
That's all, folks.