Tony Maietta 0:05

Hello , I'm film historian Tony Maietta .

Brad Shreve 0:08

And I'm Brad Shreve , who's just a guy who likes movies .

Tony Maietta 0:12

We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age . We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too .

Brad Shreve 0:18

And , of course , being the average guy , my opinions are the ones that matter .

Tony Maietta 0:24

As does your self-delusion . Welcome to Going Hollywood .

Brad Shreve 0:29

Hi , this is Brad and for just a moment I'm without a co-host because Tony , being the good man that he is and I will deny ever saying that he is somewhere in the middle of Central California participating in AIDS Life Cycle , which is , for those who don't know , a seven-day charity bike event from San Francisco to Los Angeles . Tony and I met in July of 2023 when I interviewed him for my other podcast , queer we Are . We discussed a number of Hollywood topics but , being Tony , we ended up spending much of the time , and maybe even most of the time of the episode focused on Lucille Ball . Needless to say , we had a lot of fun , being that we both enjoyed our conversation . We've discussed running as an episode here and , with Tony going off on AIDS lifecycle , we decided this is the perfect time .

Brad Shreve 1:17

Tony and I will be back next week for a brand new episode of Going Hollywood , but for now , I hope you enjoy this special presentation of the Way we Met on Queer we Are . Tony Maietta , you are an author , actor and a host , and , as a host , am I correct that they have been nearly entirely shows about TV and movie history ?

Tony Maietta 1:48

Yeah , pretty much . I mean , I don't really talk on politics , it's all pretty much TV and film . Yes , some theater , a little bit of theater I am an actor after all , so but yeah , mostly TV and film .

Brad Shreve 2:00

And you don't have film historian on your headline , on your website or in your bios . But that seems like a big part of you .

Tony Maietta 2:07

Well it is , but I go back and forth about that . What is a film historian ? I always think of some guy in some musty library somewhere looking over some old film book , and the first time someone mentioned that to me I was like what ? That's not me . I'm a guy who loves movies , so that's all . But since I was an actor , I learned how to play a film historian .

Tony Maietta 2:27

So I , you know , it is something that I wear , it's a mantle that I'm very proud to wear , but I just don't . To me it just sounds a little too academic . For for what ? What I love about what I do and what I try to do when I talk about movies and when I talk about TV is pretend like I'm having a cup of coffee with you or another kind of libation , if you're you know , a glass of wine or something , and we're talking about this movie we just saw , or , we're you know , we're talking about this TV show we just saw . I try to make it that casual , so that's always my goal , for anything is like two buddies sitting around talking about this movie they just saw Kevin Brownlee , who's an incredible , incredible source of knowledge , who's just one of my idols and I've had the fortune to meet once or twice he's a film historian People who I never studied film , I didn't go to NYU film school .

Tony Maietta 3:13

I'm an actor , you know . I studied theater . I just always loved movies and I'm kind of like Robert Osborne in that way if I may be so bold as to make that comparison in the fact that this was something he did his whole life , you know , and it was just a hobby of his . He would go to , he had these index cards he would keep . He told me one time that he would keep of films he had seen or films he was researching , and he had these boxes .

Tony Maietta 3:36

I would go to the library at my home in Meadville , Pennsylvania , where I grew up in my hometown , and go through the microfiche , remember those things when you'd go through . You'd like pick a newspaper , like I put the New York Times up and I go to July 1964 . So I could see what was playing in the theaters , what was playing on Broadway . That's what I did , or I would get every book I could and that for me that was just fun , it wasn't a scholarly endeavor , it was just what I loved . So that's kind of the approach I take as far as film goes . If I'm a historian , okay , whatever , so be it . I think of myself as a film buff .

Brad Shreve 4:14

I don't know if you have to have training to be a film historian .

Tony Maietta 4:18

I will just say this .

Brad Shreve 4:19

I hate to put a moniker on somebody else , but based on the work that you've done and just our casual conversation before we had this started , I'm going to call you a film historian .

Tony Maietta 4:28

Okay , you can do that .

Brad Shreve 4:31

You got that label and you're stuck with it now . Now your bio says Tony Maieti arrived in Los Angeles in the 1990s as a fresh-faced 20-something eager to discover the classic Hollywood that he fell in love with as a child . We know tons of people that come out here to reach their dreams . What was your goal ? What was your dream when you came to LA ?

Tony Maietta 4:56

Oh God , to be a movie star , absolutely , Actually , to be a TV star . I love the movies , obviously Duh , we're sitting here talking about them . But I always saw myself as more of a sitcom person . In fact I remember saying to my friend Brad , as we were driving , his name's not Brad , brad . I remember saying to this friend of mine as we were driving out here you know , I'll have a sitcom in a year , yeah , maybe an Emmy in a couple .

Tony Maietta 5:18

I mean , it's just so silly , but you have to have that kind of insane ambition , otherwise why bother leaving your hometown ? That kind of insane ambition , otherwise why bother leaving your hometown ? But I came out specifically with the desire to be an actor , loving film , but absolutely wanting to be an actor , but also wanting to be an actor in an era which was sadly gone . I remember I always say that I wanted to go to the Brown Derby and see William Holden , like Lucy did , or meet Rock Hudson , you know , at the Beverly Palms Hotel , like Lucy did . None of that happened . It was a sad time in Hollywood when I first came out here .

Tony Maietta 5:52

It was not a good time , like the early 90s , not a good time .

Brad Shreve 5:57

You got here , I think , right about the time I did , maybe a little bit earlier , and the Brown Derby was still still around , but it wasn't a thing it was , but wow , is it on its last legs and the one on wilshire was gone .

Tony Maietta 6:10

Yeah , yeah , the one in hollywood and vine was was still there , but the one on wilshire , which is the one that lucy went to allegedly , was long gone , as you know . What was still there too was , uh , the ambassador hotel , which , god , I wish I had had the awareness then I knew what the Ambassador was , but I didn't really know Coconut Grove and Bobby Kennedy and all that . I mean , I knew it but I didn't click until it was gone .

Brad Shreve 6:37

And listen if you're not familiar with the Ambassador Hotel . There's a whole lot of history there and unfortunately the LA Unified School District leveled it and I don't know if they have offices there or a school there , but it's gone .

Tony Maietta 6:50

It's a school , there's a school there . I mean it's gone , it's gone .

Brad Shreve 6:53

As you just alluded to your bio , does go on to say that you were disappointed, and you realized that the only way to get that magic would be travel back in time and to become a film historian . So, you set out to live in the past . Can you elaborate a little more on that ? What's your sure ? What's your disappointment was and what ? What wasn't there when you arrived ?

Tony Maietta 7:14

I wanted that golden era . I wanted to see Hepburn and Tracy in woman of the year, and I got Burt Reynolds and Liza Minnelli and rent a cop these awful early 90s movies . That there was just no glamour , there was no mystique , and that's what I wanted, and I think that's what most people, anybody who watches classic movie channels or rents DVDs we want that glamour . We want that wonderful , the whole mystery of it , the whole mystique of it , which sadly left us sometime in the 1970s , when the new Turks came over in the 70s and made incredible films like the Godfather , and when that whole new era came in with Bonnie and Clyde and New Hollywood , as you will . There was a certain amount of mystique that went out with the studio system .

Tony Maietta 8:03

Now I'm not saying that that's necessarily . It's an illusion . The studio system was gone for a lot of good reasons , but there was also a certain mystique and a certain glamour that went with it and people like me , and maybe you , Brad , who grew up watching these films , just wanted to be a part of that era . It's nowhere to be found anymore and it's really nowhere to be found now . I mean , the good thing about the films of the seventies is at least they were films about people and relationships , and now it's all you know , superheroes and computer animated stuff and I'm like , who cares ? That's one . One great thing about television now is that you find those stories on television on television that you don't find in the movies anymore , or very rarely find in the movies .

Brad Shreve 8:47

Yeah , I'm a big Paul Rudd fan , and so therefore , of the Marvel movies , I love Ant-Man , but I don't know if you saw Quantumania .

Tony Maietta 8:54

I didn't see any of them . I'm terrible .

Brad Shreve 8:57

The entire film had to have been done in a green screen . I'm sure it was entirely CGI , except for their faces , and I was impressed by wow , this must have been difficult to do , but it actually . It was depressing to me .

Tony Maietta 9:08

Well it is . I can't imagine being an actor doing that . I just I can't imagine that Film acting is difficult enough when you have another person in front of you and you're trying to do all the technical things you have to do when you're acting on film , but to act with nothing , I just , I don't know . It doesn't interest me . I'm impressed , anybody can do it . I am too . I'm stunned by it . I'm stunned by it . I can't believe it .

Brad Shreve 9:35

I would be pretty bored as an actor . Somebody covered up in green , or you know .

Tony Maietta 9:37

Yeah , well , they do these movies and then they , so they make enough money so they can go do what they love . That's the whole story behind it . I mean , Paul Rudd's a great actor , very talented actor , very funny actor and ageless , which is kind of crazy .

Brad Shreve 9:50

I think he's hysterical , he's charming , he's sexy as hell . I have a huge crush on him , but I don't know his agent . He needs to fire his agent because he really does make some bad movies .

Tony Maietta 10:06

Yes , well , you know him and Jason Bateman . So there you go . I love Jason Bateman too , but I love Jason Bateman on television . I mean , he's incredible on Ozark , he's incredible in Arrested Development , but I can't remember the last time I went to the movies to see anything he did .

Brad Shreve 10:17

He was pretty good in the Sweetest Thing , but I don't think many people saw the Sweetest Thing .

Tony Maietta 10:21

No , and that was a while ago too , wasn't it ?

Brad Shreve 10:23

That was quite a while ago . Yeah , tony , I'm stopping our conversation real quick .

Tony Maietta 10:28

Why ? Why we're in the middle of a podcast .

Brad Shreve 10:31

But this is about the podcast and it's very important .

Tony Maietta 10:34

Okay .

Brad Shreve 10:35

Listener . Whatever app you're listening on , whether it's on the computer or on the phone , reach your finger or your mouse over . It usually says follow . Some still say subscribe and click that . And what's going to happen when they do that , Tony ?

Tony Maietta 10:47

They're going to get notified when a new episode is available, and they can listen to us again . You know I don't want to miss that .

Brad Shreve 10:54

No .

Tony Maietta 10:55

Can we get back to the episode that we were recording ? Of course , please . Of course , all right , thank you . Don't forget to subscribe and follow there you go .

Brad Shreve 11:05

As far as you mentioned Katherine Hepburn , you said you think she was still alive . She actually died right around the early 2000s and I only know this because I was going to the gay and lesbian . It used to be called the Gay and Lesbian Center , I think it's now the LGBTQ Center .

Tony Maietta 11:19

Yeah , the LGBTQ and

Brad Shreve 11:23

Oh , yes , you do actually . So I was walking down Hollywood Boulevard to get there and I knew that she had died , which upset me because she was one of my favorites and I saw this massive pile of flowers and I thought , oh , who died now ? And it was right on her star . So I cried a little bit . So that's the only reason why I specifically remember when she died .

Tony Maietta 11:42

I remember exactly where I was . You do I was when she died . You do I was one of those people . Oh yeah , I'm always with that . Oh yeah , I remember sitting in my friend's driveway and I got a phone call . Before texts , I got a phone call that said Hepburn died and I was just like wow , that's big , that's major . It was a big moment .

Brad Shreve 12:02

And talk about old days of Hollywood . I've joked a lot with many guests on this show about Hollywood Boulevard and because every friend or family member that has come out to LA always wants to go to Hollywood Boulevard and they're always so broken hearted it's depressing .

Tony Maietta 12:19

Depressing , isn't it ? Yeah , so depressing . I live two blocks from it , so , yeah , I'm there every day because my gym is right there and it's the most depressing walk I can tell you right now . Yeah , yeah , it is very depressing .

Brad Shreve 12:32

Yeah , I used to live near there and recently went back . I live up in the desert now , some couple hours outside of LA , and recently went and my husband and I stayed in a hotel down there and walked around my old haunts and it was weird in the sense that it was depressing, and some things had not changed at all .

Tony Maietta 12:49

I mean , when you think about Hollywood Boulevard , especially back in the quote unquote golden era , the Hollywood Hotel , right where Hollywood and Highland is , was this place called Hollywood Hotel , and this was mostly in the 20s and this is where many of the silent screen stars of the time this was in Hollywood was a very insular place . That's where they socialized , that's where some of them lived , I mean right at Hollywood and Highland , you know , and they would have parties there and they would have dances there . It's a really fascinating idea All along Hollywood Boulevard , orange groves and pepper trees , and boy , you see none of that now well , that's back when they were actually studios in hollywood .

Brad Shreve 13:28

I mean now I think , yeah , there's Gower , which used to be Desilu . I think that's still there . Jim Henson's like our , yeah , yeah uh , the Jim Henson studio is still there which was Charlie Chaplin yeah , the old Charlie Chaplin , and then there's one more . I think that's kind of small , and the rest are all out in the Valley .

Tony Maietta 13:47

Yeah Well , yeah Well , warner Brothers was always in the Valley , but there's one that's called . It used to be Renmar . Right now it's called something else . I can't think of what it's called , but it was Desilu Cahuenga and it's right down there on Cahuenga near Melrose , and Sunset Gower is still there , and you're right . And what's the other one ? Oh , Hollywood , it's called The Lot now , or it was called the Lot , but that was a bunch of different studios . It was originally , originally , way , way back . It was the Fairbanks Pickford studio . It's right on Santa Monica and Formosa . It was where Pickford and Fairbanks made all of their films in the twenties together , and then it became the Samuel Goldwyn Studios and then it became Warner Brothers and now it's the Lot . So, I mean , it's still there . But you're right , the majority of the studios in Hollywood are not in Hollywood . It's always funny , I think we say Hollywood but everything's you know out of Hollywood .

Brad Shreve 14:43

You know they're in Burbank , Studio City , Culver City , yeah , yeah , exactly , and listen , I'm going to go off on a tangent , please forgive me . I heard some really depressing news the other day and it has me so upset . The Warner Ranch is being torn down and they're going to put in sound stages which means the Bewitched House , the Partridge Family House , the pretty much name all those old sitcoms that were actually filmed outside the Friends .

Tony Maietta 15:11

Fountain is there . The Friends Fountain is at the Warner , is it ? How would they do that ?

Brad Shreve 15:16

They're tearing it all down . There's a YouTube video where a guy is given a tour . He's driving around . It pretty much looks like a ghost town . Right now, he's driving around because he says it's going to be the last time he'll be able to see it .

Tony Maietta 15:28

Oh my .

Brad Shreve 15:29

Because my dream has always been to go . You have to get tickets to go tour the ranch . It's not as popular as Universal Studios , but for me , I always wanted to see the Bewitched House .

Tony Maietta 15:38

Yeah , you know it's funny , you have to . Yeah , you're absolutely right , you have to be invited . Um , I've been on a couple times .

Tony Maietta 15:47

I don't know why I was invited , or I had an audition or something , and I remember walking down mockingbird lane and mockingbird Morning Glory Circle , whatever , whatever street that Samantha and Darren lived and seeing the house and you know it's always a depressing experience to see these sets because , first of all , it's old , so it's been weathered and and time has done what it does to it , but it's just so much smaller than you imagine and it's just not . It's never . It is what is in your head . Yeah it's like what I say about going back in time in my head , because hollywood never existed anymore . Let's Hollywood it , really did . Yeah , exist in the way we think of it in our mind .

Brad Shreve 16:26

I think the thing that surprises me about the whole Warner Ranch thing is the very first Lethal Weapon movie . There's a scene where police were raiding the house and the house blows up and pretty much kills half the cast . That was actually the old Kravitz house , which I think was also . I think that was also the Partridge family house .

Tony Maietta 16:45

Yeah , they reused those a lot . I think it was on Dream of Jeannie too .

Brad Shreve 16:49

Yeah , the Nelson's house was a little bit different , but maybe , yeah . But anyway they blew it up for that scene and people were outraged that they had the nerve to blow up that house . That's terrible , the fact that there was so much blowback from that , and now they're just tearing it all down . I'm like , anyway , anyway , enough of the depressing stuff let's get out of here . That's not what this show is about . You just hit me in the heart there .

Tony Maietta 17:12

Yeah .

Brad Shreve 17:13

You have 65 videos on YouTube and I think most of those were from when you were on

Tony Maietta 17:20

Brad Shreve 17:21

Yeah, I counted them for a reason . Most of those I think were from when you were on here TV . Is that right ?

Tony Maietta 17:24

Oh , there's only no , there's only four that were from here TV . I think there's only four or five . The majority of them are . I mean , my Lucy Show stuff is up there because nobody buys DVDs anymore , so it's like you know who can see these anymore . A majority of those are actually documentaries that I'm working on . Currently I work with a wonderful French production company called Wichita . Ironically enough , wichita Films and we do they do a lot of the stuff that I post up there . They're two incredible French producers who we did the Barrymore stuff together . The Jack Lemmon stuff , the William Holden stuff where we talked about network , most of my stuff up there . The gossip the Hollywood gossip stuff is a lot . That's a lot of it , and some of my other stuff stuff up there . The gossip the Hollywood gossip stuff that's a lot of it , and some of my other stuff here and there . Some of the stuff I did with TCM is up there too , until they take it down .

Brad Shreve 18:11

I have a very close Facebook friend . We have to clarify those now . He's a great friend . I may never see him in my life . He has a huge old school movie buff and TV buff and I sent him the link to your . Youtube page and movie buff and TV buff and I sent him the link to your YouTube page and he was like in heaven .

Tony Maietta 18:26

Oh , that's nice to hear . Sometimes you wonder if anybody sees anything ?

Brad Shreve 18:29

Oh , he demanded I let him know that when you're going to be on the show .

Tony Maietta 18:32

Oh , that's so nice . I appreciate that .

Brad Shreve 18:34

There's a reason why I counted , why there's 65 videos there . Yeah , because I wanted to know 30% of those videos . 19 of them are focused on Lucille Ball . What is it about Lucy ?

Tony Maietta 18:48

Wow , Well , hello . I mean , there's the question of the century , isn't it ? What is it about Lucy ? I mean , we're still fascinated with Lucy . I mean , just last year , you know , that hideous movie with Nicole Kidman came out , but there was an incredible Amy Poehler documentary I don't know if you saw that Lucy and Desi . That was fantastic . It was on Amazon and there was a TCM and a Lucy podcast . What is it about Lucy you mean for me personally , or what do I think about Lucy for everybody ?

Brad Shreve 19:15

Yeah , you personally .

Tony Maietta 19:17

Well , I think for me , for me I can only , you know well , I can speak for me personally . You know I was like many people , like many , I'm sure many of your listeners , you know I was a lonely gay boy . I wasn't good at sports , I didn't have a lot of friends . I had a couple close friends , but I had two really great friends that I saw every day after school and their names were Lucy and Ethel , or sometimes they were Lucy and Viv , and Mr Mooney was there occasionally , or Ricky and Fred were there . So to me Lucy was a real lifeline or a real comfort in a sometimes not always . I mean , my childhood was fine , it was not a grim childhood at all , but for many people she brought joy to my life . She was like there was just something childlike . You know there's something childlike and wondrous about her and when you're with her and when you're watching her , you're kind of a participant in the joy of her being .

Tony Maietta 20:16

You know , now I'm not talking about Lucille Ball the actress , I'm talking about the character Lucy . I mean , we all know they're in one . You know two different entities . Yeah , lucille Ball the actress was a very , very , very driven woman . She could not have achieved what she achieved if she had been Lucy Ricardo . I mean , that's just the way it is . Lucy Ricardo is the lovable clown . Lucille Ball is the incredible technician and actress and genius that allowed her to come into creation .

Brad Shreve 20:48

You may be able to clarify this . I've heard she was unpleasant to work with , not because she was a nasty person , but because she was such a perfectionist .

Tony Maietta 20:55

Well , I think a lot of people talk about it . I think that she was driven . I mean , I didn't work with her so I don't know . But obviously , from what I've read and I've read a lot and I've talked to a lot of people I prefer not to think of her as in negative terms . She was an achiever and you can't get around it . There's a certain misogynistic bent to this idea . If she was a man , they'd think of her differently and they think of her differently . She was a woman who knew what she wanted . Was she tough ? Yeah , she had to be tough . You know , people who aren't tough don't get things done in this town , particularly in that era .

Tony Maietta 21:48

This was a woman who went through the studio system . She started as a showgirl and became the first woman president after Mary Pickford got to put that in there the first woman president of a major Hollywood studio . How do you travel that path if you're going to be some cutesy pie everybody gets along with ? No , you got to be a tough broad . I admire that about her . I admire the fact that she was tough . I don't think she was . From everything I've read and everyone I've talked to , she wasn't unfair . I think she called it like it was . I wish I could be more that way in my dealings with people . You know , did she lack a little bit of tact ? Maybe I've heard that before , but she got things done . It was her show . She knew what she was doing Clearly , she called the shots and she didn't waste time , maybe sometimes worrying about people's feelings , unfortunately . So that's the way I can look at her .

Brad Shreve 22:28

That is why I clarified that I never heard that she was a nasty person , but that she was just hard to work with . There are two very different things . She knew what she wanted .

Tony Maietta 22:36

She was right . Her daughter said to me and her daughter's a great resource , you know what I mean she was a taskmaster , but she was always right , and if you're going to have somebody be a taskmaster , make sure they're right . And she was . That's what's amazing about her . So she cut through all the bullshit and she said no , this is the way it has to be done and this is the way it was done .

Tony Maietta 22:59

Now , the fact that you could create a beloved character like Lucy Ricardo that touches people still to this day is just part of her acting genius . I think it's important to point out , and I try to point out . When I talk about Lucy the brilliant actress here , People think , yes , she was a clown and she was funny , but this was an actress . This was a woman who played gangsters malls . This is a woman who played showgirls . This is a woman who played the gamut through her entire career . She just hit upon this persona , which was gold , and so everybody thinks that's who she is . She was a brilliant actress and she doesn't give enough credit for that brilliance , in my opinion .

Brad Shreve 23:38

Something that really endears me to Lucy and I don't know if there's many people that know this Barbara Pepper . Not many people remember the name Barbara Pepper . She played Doris Ziffel on Green Acres . She and Lucy were dance partners together , if you can believe . Doris Ziffel was a dancer she was and then Lucy , I guess , hurt her legs or whatever and she couldn't dance anymore , or something of that nature .

Tony Maietta 24:00

Well , she and Lucy came out to Hollywood together . They were both Goldwyn Girls oh , I did yeah , they came out .

Tony Maietta 24:05

I think lucy came out in 32 spur of the moment . Was was spotted on the street . She was a Chester field girl said we have these girls who are going to be in the Sam Goldwyn film . One of the girls dropped out . We need somebody . You want to do it . This agent center .

Tony Maietta 24:18

So it was by chance . If you will , Barbara Pepper is one of those women . Here's the amazing thing about barbara pepper and this is the amazing thing about Barbara Pepper and this is the amazing thing about Lucy the loyalty she used Barbara Pepper her entire career . She gave Barbara Pepper work . Barbara Pepper will be in . I Love Lucy . She'll pop up . You know what I mean ? She was no longer looking like a showgirl . Yep , you know , she was a zaftig kind of character . Lucy was so loyal to these people . Yeah , if you were in Lucy's orbit and Lucy trusted you and I talked about this with Carol Cook actually when I interviewed Carol Cook if Lucy liked you and she trusted you , you had a job for life because she used you again and again and again . She was so loyal to people who she felt were you know , to her friends , to people she felt indebted to , were people she felt close to , and it's a good example .

Brad Shreve 25:10

And I don't want to get too much into Barbara , other than to say she had a troubled life , she had some issues and the fact that Lucy continued to help her and support her . That's what I was going to allude to . That says a lot to me about Lucy .

Tony Maietta 25:24

Lucy did that with so many people . You can watch an I Love Lucy and then watch a here's Lucy and you'll see the same actor .

Brad Shreve 25:33

You'd be like wait a minute .

Tony Maietta 25:34

I just saw him 20 years ago and I love Lucy because that's who Lucille Ball was . And so when people say , yeah , difficult to work with a hard-edged woman , okay , but hello . Okay but hello . Incredibly loyal , incredibly trustworthy , incredibly . I mean this woman greenlit Star Trek , she greenlit Mission Impossible . I mean , come on , she was running the show when these things were developed and she said , yeah , let's keep that on . Okay , what a genius really . In so many ways .

Brad Shreve 26:04

I was actually just going to touch on Star Trek , because I don't know if many people know that Star Trek was not going to happen and Lucy's the one that kind of made it happen .

Tony Maietta 26:11

Not at all Too expensive .

Brad Shreve 26:13

Yeah , If you guys want to look it up , if you Star Trek fans . Thank Lucy .

Tony Maietta 26:17

Absolutely , Absolutely . Lucy was yeah , it was too expensive . They didn't want to do anything after the pilot and she said I think there's something there , let's go ahead and do it . Gene Roddenberry , go ahead .

Brad Shreve 26:28

We know there was I Love Lucy . Everybody knows I Love Lucy but her other two shows , the Lucy Show and here's Lucy all three of those shows ran for six seasons . Why I talk to people they don't even know the Lucy Show or here's Lucy exists . I remember watching them with my mom .

Tony Maietta 26:45

It's a knife in my heart , Brad .

Brad Shreve 26:47

And you really have obviously a deep love for the Lucy Show . What is it about the Lucy Show ?

Tony Maietta 26:54

I have a deep love for the first three seasons .

Brad Shreve 26:57

Yeah , I know , it changed .

Tony Maietta 26:58

Of the Lucy Show . I think that if you talk to practically any Lucy fan , as we're called , our affinity is for the first three seasons because of Vivian Vance , because the Lucy show is , in essence , particularly in its first year . Particularly in its first year is like Lucy and Ethel distilled to a fine wine Because there's no Ricky and Fred to get in the way . Now I love Lucy , love Lucy .

Tony Maietta 27:25

I am a huge I Love Lucy aficionado , but there are times when I would rather watch the first season of the Lucy Show because you're getting that relationship distilled to its purest form . These two women were as much a comedy team as Laurel and Hardy , you know , as Abbott and Costello I mean . These women worked so brilliantly together and in the Lucy show in particular , you find that because there's no distractions of husbands or anything else , you know it's them together . Here's Lucy , not so much . The thing is , is that the unfortunate thing about Lucy is ? And the unfortunate thing that happens with a lot of people , I think , who are successful is she didn't want to stray from the formula .

Tony Maietta 28:07

You know she , even though times were changing , it was more and more difficult as the years went on for her to change with the times . And the big thing is is she lost a very crucial element in that whole thing , which was Desi Arnaz . Desi Arnaz created . There would be no Lucy without Desi .

Tony Maietta 28:30

I mean , he was the mastermind , the genius behind I Love Lucy , as we all know , along with Jess Oppenheimer . But when the Lucy show came about , even though they were divorced and Lucy was remarried to Gary Morton , he was still the executive producer . He was still very much in his mind because he still ran Desilu . They were still working , running the studio . It was very much in his mind that this new series , without him being Ricky , without him on air , would be launched in the proper way . And then he left after a few weeks and sold Desilu to Lucy . She bought him out weeks and sold Desilu to Lucy . She bought him out . So when she lost Desi as a executive producer , that's when the series really started to go downhill , but it's still there in its essence . So I don't know if I answered your question .

Brad Shreve 29:21

I went off on a Desi Arnaz tangent , but that's how I feel about it . No , no , it actually does answer the question . And for those unfamiliar Lucy , I Love Lucy . I think ended around 1958 or so 57 .

Tony Maietta 29:28

57 . And then there were three years of specials .

Brad Shreve 29:31

Yeah , they ran those one hour specials they divorced in 60 . Yeah , and then the Lucy show ran in . 62 is when it started .

Tony Maietta 29:38

Right 62 to 68 . And then here's Lucy . The only reason that you say six seasons , it just kind of worked out that way . The reason that the Lucy show stopped at six seasons and then became here's Lucy is because Lucille Ball sold Desilu . So because Lucille Ball sold Desilu , she no longer owned the product , so she had to create a new series in order to own it , otherwise Paramount would have owned it .

Brad Shreve 30:03

And the series was still a pretty big hit when that happened too .

Tony Maietta 30:06

Oh , it was the tie rated in this last year . The last season of the Lucy show was its highest . It was like number two Doesn't mean it was quality-wise , it was necessarily but it was its highest rating . And she also wanted to work with her kids . You know she wanted a new format . She wanted to work with her kids . She had these two kids who were clearly very talented and you know , she wanted to keep them busy . And so that's how here's Lucy came about and she worked with the kids .

Brad Shreve 30:32

And I always heard that that's the whole reason why she stopped the Lucy show . I didn't know . I had to do with selling .

Tony Maietta 30:36

The studio was she wanted to work with the kids . She wanted to work for the kids . They're very talented kids and , let's face it , the format pretty much had run out of steam . But if you watch the early here's Lucy's it's still pretty much Lucy Carmichael and Mr Mooney , except their names are now Lucy Carter and Harrison Carter . It's the same format , it's just different names , and now there's two adult kids as opposed to two teenage kids , or teenage-ish .

Brad Shreve 31:28

Yeah , and to catch some of you up on , Here's Lucy Desi Arnaz jr . And Lucy Arnaz played her children on the show . Her real children played her children on the show . Desi arnaz jr was on for a few seasons and then he left , and I think they only referred to him now and again . Lucy Arnaz stayed through the whole thing , though they did do a pilot for her own show lucy jr .

Brad Shreve 31:50

Yeah , yeah , they did and they did what's called a backdoor pilot , where you do one episode of the show . That's really kind of a pilot . It was awful right .

Tony Maietta 31:56

I don't know if you saw it it was awful , and then lucy broke her leg , so that there's , you know , there's , the backstory to that was the pilot was how it's . You know what ? It's Lucille Ball . If she wants to do a pilot , it'll happen . You know what I mean , even if it wasn't a great pilot . If she's behind it , cbs is going to put it on . But Lucy broke her leg , so suddenly Lucy Arnaz was needed very much to be back in Here's Lucy and that's why one of the real reasons that pilot never happened was because Lucy broke her leg . So Lucy Arnaz had to kind of step up and be a guiding force in the here's Lucy show .

Brad Shreve 32:32

Ah , that's why , Because I didn't even know when I first read that there was this pilot . I had to look it up on YouTube and I'm like , oh , I see why that didn't make it .

Tony Maietta 32:41

Yeah , it's not a good pilot . It's not a good pilot . She's amazing , she's always amazing . She's one of the most talented people and sadly well , not maybe sadly underused , but I love . You know , she's an incredible woman , she's a force , I'll tell you , to interview her is something , but , as I imagine her mother was , she knows what she wants and she , you know , she's not afraid to tell you . She's very kind and a very lovely woman . But she's so funny and I mean just talking with her in normal conversation , you get this humor and you're like why aren't you ? Where was your sitcom ? Where was your ? You know ? But she liked the stage , she did some amazing stuff on stage and she still does . You know , in Palm Springs , in your area , she does a lot of great stuff .

Brad Shreve 33:22

You have like a 20 minute documentary with her , don't you ?

Tony Maietta 33:26

Well , we have an interview . When I did , uh , the Lucy show , when CBS decided to release the Lucy show on DVD , I was hired to be the host by a wonderful man named Tom Watson , who was the producer of them , and we'd never met before . He'd seen some of my stuff , but ironically he was the president of the we Love Lucy fan club back in the 70s and I was a charter member , so I knew who he was and so we formed this great partnership . He's an incredible producer and he produced these DVDs of the Lucy show and season one . I interviewed Lucy Arnaz and I interviewed Jimmy Garrett , who played Lucy's son , jerry , in the Lucy show . And season two . I interviewed Carol Cook and Barry Livingston , and then we started to run out of people because there weren't a lot of people around by this point to talk to , you know , which is unfortunate . So we only did three seasons of that . But yeah , that was an incredible interview . The woman's insight into her mother and her frankness and her honesty were really wonderful .

Brad Shreve 34:33

Well , I want to make sure we talk about the book that you co-wrote with Jerry Torrey , but I do have to say one more thing Gail Gordon , who played TJ Theodore J Mooney in the um the Lucy show and later went on to hear Lucy as a different character , a different name , not a different character .

Tony Maietta 34:50

A different name , same character , different name . A little more bombastic .

Brad Shreve 34:53

But yes , he and Lucy were friends . They were back in radio together , were they not Right ? They were friends for years .

Tony Maietta 34:59

Oh yeah , he was supposed to be Fred Mertz .

Brad Shreve 35:06

She wanted him to be Fred Mertz , but he wasn't available and also Desi was very insistent William Frawley , as I understand .

Tony Maietta 35:10

Yeah , well , Desi loved William Frawley . He thought William Frawley was perfect . But Lucy wanted Gail Gordon . Again , if Lucy liked you , you were with her forever . Yeah , if she respected you , she wanted you with her and she loved Gail Gordon . They were friends and they did radio together . But he couldn't do , he couldn't play Fred Mertz . So they got William Frawley , who Lucy had worked with at MGM . So she knew Bill Frawley . But Bill Frawley was an alcoholic , it was well known and he was irascible . He was exactly like Fred Mertz . And Desi said to him look , amigo , you know , if you miss more than you know a few episodes because you're drunk , you're out of here . And he never missed an episode . He was I mean letter perfect always . And that was a real friendship those two .

Brad Shreve 35:55

I thought that was very touching . It was a classic cast , so I will admit Fred was way too old to be Ricky's friend , but that's a whole different story .

Tony Maietta 36:01

And also too old , and Vivian Vance would have agreed with you , because you were way too old to be Vivian Vance's husband , and she wasn't too happy about that either .

Brad Shreve 36:08

Yeah , I know she wasn't too thrilled with that whole situation . But the only reason I wanted to bring up Gale Gordon is I liked him so much as an actor . My second novel I write mysteries . One of the main characters is a producer , a big Hollywood producer , and I originally wrote him as being kind of a gruff , rumbling individual and I named him TJ Moody and his deceased ex-wife was named Lucille and only one person caught it . Only one person wrote this is the TJ Mooney and Lucy and I'm like , yeah , but anyway , in the end the guy was not bumbling , he's still gruff , but I took out the bumbling part .

Tony Maietta 36:44

He was wonderful as Mr Mooney . I loved him as Mr Mooney in the early seasons .

Brad Shreve 36:48

He was awesome . They played off each other really well .

Tony Maietta 36:51

They played out for each other really really well . Yes , they were a dream team .

Brad Shreve 36:55

So let's talk about your book . Okay , what do you want to know ? The Marble Fawn of Grey Gardens .

Tony Maietta 37:00

Right , right , the Marble Fawn of Grey Gardens , which I co-wrote with Jerry Torrey , who is the Marble Fawn , the one and only . And those unfamiliar with the Grey Gardens give us a run , because I know there's been a play and I believe at least two movies have been written about the Grey Gardens . Yeah , there's been . Yeah , grey Gardens . Okay , Grey Gardens . For the few people out there who don't know about Grey Gardens , 1975 documentary by David and Albert Maysles , that is basically one of those fly-on-the-wall documentaries about Edith Bouvier Beale and her daughter , Edie , also named Edie . So one is Big Edie , one is Little Edie and they are the cousins of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and they live in absolute degradation and squalor in this dilapidated mansion in East Hampton . So it's kind of a mind-blowing look into the private lives of these two iconoclastic women who speak like they're Tennessee Williams heroines whose command of the language is beyond anything . But meanwhile cats are going to the bathroom around them and there's cat food cans piled up and there's raccoons running around . I mean it's absolutely mind-blowing .

Tony Maietta 38:10

It's a documentary and it has inspired a documentary sequel . There's the Drew Barrymore Jessica Lange film . There was a Broadway musical . There's hopefully going to be a TV show of our book which we're pitching right now . So yeah , they're very much iconoclasts and touchstones for a lot of gay men too . The gay men love Lilitle Edie very much . She's an icon and your core author .

Brad Shreve 38:34

Jerry , he's the fun . He actually worked in the gardens there , Is that correct ?

Tony Maietta 38:38

For anyone who's seen the documentary or the musical . Jerry is the handyman . Jerry is the caretaker of the house . He's this young , adorable 16-year-old runaway , basically , who helps the women out of the house . Edie calls him the Marble Fawn . She comes up with this nickname which is a Nathaniel Hawthorne book about , and in this book there's actually a real statue of the Marble Fawn and it looks like Jerry . So he gets that nickname because he resembles him and Jerry's just kind of like an adjunct to these two women and their story .

Tony Maietta 39:12

So in our book Jerry has an entire story about his life before and his life during . I like to say there's so much that happened before the camera showed up , what we see at Grey Gardens , there's a whole backstory to everything . So in our story , in the book , in the story it's about his dealings with these women , but it's about his entire life and it's kind of like a universal story in my opinion , because Jerry's an out and proud gay man . He was closeted during that time when he was a young boy , but it's about reclaiming your identity . It's about accepting yourself . It's about the family you create versus the family that you're born into . It hits on all these subjects . He also dealt with the AIDS crisis in the 80s . He's HIV positive , he deals with that every day and he also has his issues with substance abuse . So it hits all these things , this little book , and he's a remarkable guy . He's a remarkable human being and a remarkable character . As Edie said , an extraordinary character .

Brad Shreve 40:09

So the TV show that you're proposing , or I don't know if you're talking about a movie or a TV series ?

Tony Maietta 40:15

We were talking about a series . A series , are you looking at ?

Brad Shreve 40:18

it being more focused from his perspective .

Tony Maietta 40:26

Right , it's his story . So basically it's his story with Grey Gardens as the centerpiece , because his story , as in the book , like I said , encompasses so much more than just Grey Gardens . Yeah , it's kind of got this cool background on these two iconic women that everybody and most gay men know . But it's his life with them and his life up to that point in his life . Afterwards he also had incredible happenings in his life . He had an affair with Waylon Flowers and Madam .

Tony Maietta 40:48

I don't know if you you probably know who Waylon Flowers was . He was this crazy . I hate to call him a ventriloquist because he was so much more , but he had this puppet named Madam who was kind of this foul-mouthed hand puppet which he would . He was on Hollywood Squares . He had his own TV show . You know he had dealings with them . But it's really about it's really a personal story of his acceptance of who he is that we all go through as gay men , we all go through as people , I think , accepting who we are , as opposed to running away from it . And for many years he ran away from his identity in his connection to Grey Gardens , and then he began to embrace it when he realized what it meant to people , when he realized the joy that these two crazy individualistic women have for a lot of people . Their story could have gotten a lot of people down , but they never say die . The Beals are survivors in the most ludicrous of circumstances , and I think that's what makes people so drawn to them .

Brad Shreve 41:50

Well , I like the whole idea of it from being a different perspective than has already been betrayed . If you will come back as my guest , I'd love to have you back , but there is because I could go on forever . This could be a mini series , but I do have one question for you of the many that I want to ask , based on LGBTQ actors and portrayals from the not-too-distant past to today , where do you see things have gone ?

Tony Maietta 42:16

Oh , I think we've made huge steps , huge I don't know about leaps , I would say big steps forward in movies and certainly in television . When I started acting , I couldn't be an out gay actor and expect to work . You know , I had agents , managers who told me no , no , no , no , no , you can't , you have to play the game , and that's unfortunate , but that's the way it was . There were no very few . I rack my brain to try to think of an out gay actor in the early 90s . I mean , ian McKellen came out , but that was later and that was because he was urged to by Armistead Maupin , his friend who wrote Tales of the City , he Bomer . You have people like Neil Patrick Harris . You have people like Jonathan Bailey who are out proud , and I'm missing some Tuck .

Tony Maietta 43:11

Watkins some really wonderful , wonderful actors who are absolutely out proud gay actors , but they can play everything . That was the thing I always heard was that a gay actor can't play a straight person . Why , if I can play anything , I can play a straight person .

Brad Shreve 43:29

We've been doing it for millennia .

Tony Maietta 43:31

I did it for a long time . I did it for a long time and it's funny because why they say that and that they cast straight men to play gay . So if a straight man can play a gay man , why can't a gay man play a straight man ? It doesn't make any sense . If a straight man can play a gay man , why can't a gay man play a straight man ?

Brad Shreve 43:47

It doesn't make any sense . You know we had Tom .

Tony Maietta 43:48

Hanks , we had Robin Williams .

Brad Shreve 43:51

They've all done it Too long for the whole cast .

Tony Maietta 43:52

They've won Oscars for it . You know , Sean Penn won an Oscar for playing Harvey Milk . It was wonderful , but I would have loved to have seen a gay actor do it Okay . So explain to me that whole double standard about a gay actor can't play a straight actor . You know , it's just , it's insane . But we're doing better , it's getting better despite everything .

Brad Shreve 44:12

I kind of agree with the Harvey Milk thing , except I think he did it brilliantly so I couldn't even imagine somebody else doing it . You know Rupert Everett did . He's most known for my Best Friend's Wedding , which was 1997 . And he said coming out was the worst thing he ever did . It killed his career and I don't know if that's true , but that's what he said . It's like he was just a few years too early , if that's correct .

Tony Maietta 44:33

Yeah , I heard that too and that's unfortunate . You know that is , but I don't know if that's true . I mean , don't you think the movie he did with Madonna was more detrimental to his career than coming out was ? I mean , come on , he also did my Best Friend's Wedding and that was a huge hit .

Brad Shreve 44:48

It was a huge hit .

Tony Maietta 44:49

He was a gay in that , so I don't know that I necessarily agree with that .

Brad Shreve 44:54

I don't know that I do either . I'm going to put it in a category . I'm going to really step on the line here because a lot of people aren't going to be happy with me . To me , I think of it similar to Ellen when Ellen came out on the Ellen show I don't know what went on behind the scenes , but she likes to blame the show being canceled because of her coming out .

Brad Shreve 45:12

Anybody that's watched the show after she came out , the show got really boring yeah , it was 100 focused on her exploring being lesbian , which definitely should be a part of the show , but it wasn't funny right , right .

Tony Maietta 45:24

No , it wasn't funny , so I so I mean , what's the real culprit here ? Yeah , you know , is it a bad show ? Or is it because you came out ? I don't think I wasn't there .

Brad Shreve 45:33

I loved the show till then , so to me that's the reason . But again , I don't know what went on behind the scenes , so I can't say for sure .

Tony Maietta 45:40

I mean , Will and Grace ran how many years and it was a ? It was a until it got bad , yes , Until it ran its course . It was a brilliant show , so I don't know that had anything to do with it . I think that that's an easy . It's an easy scapegoat . It's a scary thing , you know it's a scary thing , to come out in this business and expect to work . You probably will lose jobs , but you probably will also be more authentic to who you are and those jobs will be more . You know , I never booked anything that wasn't gay related , which is so astounding to me . I think about that Because I did a lot of plays , I did indie movies , and they were always gay related . But if I ever got to the point where I was up against a role against someone who identified as straight as far as I knew and it was a straight role I didn't get it . Now , was that because I was gay or because I was a lousy ?

Brad Shreve 46:32

actor . I don't know , but that's the way it is . I don't think I was a lousy actor . As long as Ryan Murphy around , people like Matt Bomer will always have a job . Yes , well , thank you . I hope so .

Tony Maietta 46:38

I hope so . I'm not really acting anymore , but I'm always willing to take the call if it happens . I got a lot of other things happening .

Brad Shreve 46:47

So I have some links in the show notes to your website and some of your social media . What is ?

Tony Maietta 46:51

the best place to reach you .

Tony Maietta 46:53

The best place is through my website , which is my name , which is tony-miettacom . You have to have the dash in there , otherwise you go to my cousin's website and that's perfectly well and good , but you know he's going to . He's going to say hey , email this person . So that's the best way to do it . I have my YouTube channel , which is just my name Tony Maeda . You can IMDB me , tony Maeda . Everything's pretty much out there as Tony Maeda and I'll hear from you If you send me a message . You know , keep it clean , absolutely .

Brad Shreve 47:23

Keep it nice , keep it nice , keep it nice , and I'll have all of that in the show notes and I'll have more about Tony and other things that we talked about on the website where we arecom . Tony , it's been a pleasure . I really appreciate you being on the show . It's been fun .

Tony Maietta 47:37

Oh , brad , thank you . I've really had a great time . It's been great . I appreciate it . Yeah , absolutely . I'll come back sometime . Whenever you want to talk about old Hollywood , I'm here , I'm your man .

Brad Shreve 47:47

You've done documentaries on many shows that I want to talk about , so , yeah , I'll probably have you back .

Tony Maietta 47:51

Great , thank you , thank you , thanks everybody .

Brad Shreve 47:59

Do you enjoy going to Hollywood ? Well , of course you do , and Tony and I would like you to do something for us and , more important , for other podcast listeners out there . Go to Apple Podcasts , itunes , spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts , and rate and review this show . A five star would be especially nice . That way , when others are looking for a new show , they'll see ours and see those reviews and they will stop and listen and boy , that will make their day . It will be much appreciated . Thank you for being with us .