Tony Maietta 0:52

Hello , I'm film historian Tony Maietta

Brad Shreve 0:55

And I'm Brad Shreve , who's just a guy who likes movies .

Tony Maietta 0:58

We discuss movies and television from Hollywood's golden age . We go behind the scenes and share our opinions too .

Brad Shreve 1:05

And , of course , being the average guy , my opinions are the ones that matter .

Tony Maietta 1:10

As does your self-delusion . Welcome to Going Hollywood . Well , Brad , do you remember what we're talking about today ? What movie we're talking about ?

Brad Shreve 1:20

Well , I hope so . I don't just show up to look at your handsome face .

Tony Maietta 1:23

Well , I was going to give you a hint . Can I give you a hint ? I'll give a hint to everybody else , that's what I'll do . Okay , that's fine , that'll work . I'll give a hint to our listener Babyface . That's not much of a hint . That's the name of the movie . I should have started somewhere . I didn't think that through . We're talking about Baby Face and not the music producer , singer , the 1933 pre-code film Baby Face today

Brad Shreve 1:55

You also stopped listening before we lost everybody too .

Tony Maietta 1:57

That's true . I always want to do that . I probably could have sang the whole song , because I think it's in public domain by now , but anyway , so that's yes , so that's what we're talking about today , Brad , I got to ask you because I know you never had you even heard of Babyface before . I said we need to do Babyface .

Brad Shreve 2:13

No , I had no clue about this movie . As far as I can recall , I don't think I ever heard of this film . I certainly knew nothing about the film .

Tony Maietta 2:20

So we maybe should let give people a little bit background . What we did was we said I the film . So we maybe should let give people a little bit background . What we did was we said I was going to give Brad a film , a suggestion to watch , to record , and he's going to give me one . So you'll have to wait to find out what the movie is that Brad wanted me to watch .

Tony Maietta 2:45

Now here's the interesting thing about Babyface , and I think we need a little bit of background on what we mean when we say pre-code , because I've said it a couple times in this podcast oh , it's pre-code , it's pre-code . And people are like , well , what is it ? Some people might not know what that means . Yeah , I think we could use more detail . Okay , so basically what pre-code is is an era in the American film industry that occurred pretty much between the widespread adoption of sound in like the late you know , 27 , 28 , 29 , and the enforcement of the motion picture production code , censorship , guidelines .

Tony Maietta 3:22

So what we're talking about when we say pre-code is a time period of about four years when Hollywood films were really crazy , insane . I mean , when people think of black and white film , when people think of old Hollywood films , you know mostly black and white films , I think . I think they think of innocent films , I think they're wholesome , certainly sexless . I mean there is no sex , you know , kind of dull and non-threatening . Did you have that idea about movies , Brad ? This is the general whole black and white films .

Brad Shreve 3:57

They certainly were tame as a rule , other than the innuendo here and there .

Tony Maietta 4:01

Yes , naive , yeah , yeah definitely innuendo here and there .

Tony Maietta 4:07

Yes , naive , yeah , yeah , definitely . Non-violent , sexless , certainly . Well , that ain't Baby Face , I'll tell you right now . So the thing about these pre-code films it is so astounding is that none of them are like this . They are some of the wildest , craziest films you'll ever see and they're in black and white . So so I think it's kind of like it's a little jarring to us when we see it and in Baby , and I thought a lot about how I was going to describe Baby Face when we talked about doing it and I realized that I didn't want to do any euphemisms , I didn't want to do any kind of like innuendo , because that doesn't the movie doesn't . There's no innuendo in this movie . There is no subtle suggestions in this movie . So this movie deserves an absolute , out there , honest description of what it's about . So if anybody has sensitive ears , they should close them right now . Cover them , because what Baby Gace is about is Barbara Stanwyck plays a woman who literally fucks her way to the top . Am I wrong about this description , Brad ?

Brad Shreve 5:10

No , and when you told me this was a pre-code film and everything , I thought , okay , there's going to be a lot of innuendo here . There is no innuendo at all . It is totally in your face , Victoria Barkley from Big Valley . I am shocked how you earned your money .

Tony Maietta 5:29

Yeah , there's no shadings , there's no shading . So I didn't want to be like cutesy about . Oh , she slept away at the top because there's no sleeping . That goes on in this movie either . I mean , it's quite blatant what she's doing to get ahead and she plans it . She plans her ascent this way .

Brad Shreve 5:43

We may not have seen on the screen , but she had to be sleeping sometime , because this woman would have been exhausted .

Tony Maietta 5:46

Well , that's true , she was very active .

Brad Shreve 5:48

Yeah , she had to get a rest sometime .

Tony Maietta 5:49

All right , so let me give a . I'm going to give a brief history of the code Now . This is going to be brief and just an overview , because there are lots of books , lots of wonderful websites that you can research the history of the code , because it's full of lots of subcommittees and committees and administrations and it's yeah , I'm just going to give you an overview of it . So , first of all , I think the important thing to say is that when we say pre-code and we're talking about a film , it's kind of a misnomer , because the code itself the list of do's and don'ts and be carefuls was actually adopted by the film industry in 1930 . It just wasn't enforced . So what we're talking about actually is when we say pre-code is pre enforcement of the code . But the code was in place . So these filmmakers knew they weren't following the code when they did this . But in order to talk about it you have to go all the way back to silent film , all the way back to the 20s .

Tony Maietta 6:48

And it's also important to point out the code was established by Hollywood itself . It was not established by outsiders , because in the early 20s there were several major scandals that brought unwanted attention to Hollywood . There was the Fatty Arbuckle Virginia Rappe manslaughter trial . There was the mysterious death of director William Desmond Taylor . That involved two popular actresses , Mabel Normand and Mary Miles Minter , and there was also the drug overdose of popular leading man Wallace Reed .

Tony Maietta 7:20

Now , these scandals , along with the increasing sexuality that was going on in films at this time after all , this was the Jazz Age . Okay , it wasn't just Hollywood that was going crazy , culture was going a little crazy and that would naturally bleed in to film . Sexuality , or this increasing sexuality in film , along with these scandals , brought a lot of unwanted attention to Hollywood and it started special interest groups to start calling for government intervention in films . Now , the studios did not want this . They did not want to get the government involved in kind of some kind of censorship , so they decided they had to do something themselves to prevent that . So they all got together , which is kind of amazing when you think of that . They all got together and formed the Motion Picture Producers and Distributors of America , or the MPPDA . Are you with me so far , brad ? Have I lost you yet ?

Brad Shreve 8:20

No , I'm still with you . Okay , good , you're doing well here .

Tony Maietta 8:26

I haven't gone too deeply into the into the swamp .

Brad Shreve 8:28

You're skimming the surface . You're skimming

Tony Maietta 8:34

Okay I'm wrapping up soon . So , okay , real fast . All right , so to head this new uh mppda , they hired this innocuous uh E Newman , mad Magazine-looking guy named Will Hayes , who was actually the former Postmaster General of the US . And if you want a good laugh , just Google Will Hayes and you'll laugh , because he looks just like Alfred E Newman from Mad Magazine . But the problem was that the MPPDA , and later a subgroup called the Studio Relations Committee , didn't really have the teeth . A subgroup called the Studio Relations Committee didn't really have the teeth . It was an advisory board . It advised producers what to do and what not to do . It couldn't enforce it . So you know , the filmmakers just pretty much ignored it and just kept doing what they were doing before , except it got even racier . And then , when sound came in , these special interest groups really got nervous , because not only did they have to worry about visual things that might offend , suddenly there were words to contend with .

Brad Shreve 9:31

So basically they said I'll take note of that . And then they sat down and said , fuck them .

Tony Maietta 9:35

Yeah , exactly , they just kept , they just did what they did because there was no teeth to this there was no teeth . So of course , it wasn't really until 1929 that the Catholic Church got involved . Of course , it wasn't until the Catholic Church got involved that they began to get really nervous . And so , in 1930 , they created the code that we always talk about , the motion picture code .

Tony Maietta 10:01

And just I want to give you a couple examples of what was in the code . Okay , just so we know . Obviously pointed profanity , any licentious or suggestive nudity , illegal traffic and drugs , interference of sex perversion , ie homosexuality , white slavery , scenes of actual childbirth , children's sex organs . Well , okay , yeah , why would you anyway ? But all right , ridicule of the clergy , because who created this code ? The clergy ? They didn't want to be made fun of . So those were just some of the rules that were in the code , but still , they created this code and nobody paid any attention to it .

Tony Maietta 10:42

It's insane , these filmmakers , it's all PR . They're just saying we're doing , we're doing and we're doing it , and they turn around and do what they want to do anyway . So finally , in 1933 , the Catholic Legion of Decency was formed and it began to rate films independently . Okay , and when it did this and it told his congregation you could go to hell watching this movie . They also got the Protestants involved and women's groups launched protests and boycotts . Then they really the studios finally sat up and take notice . Okay , that was created in 1930 was finally enforced .

Tony Maietta 11:26

So , that's why you can see a movie from , say , May , and it can have drugs , it can have prostitution , it can have illicit sexual activity . And then you can see a movie two months later , from August . None of it existed . And that is my code 101 for you . Your applause can start now .

Brad Shreve 11:47

While you were talking . I couldn't resist . I had to pull up a picture of William Hayes and I don't like to make fun of the way people look .

Tony Maietta 12:01

. Well , he was a Republican .

Brad Shreve 12:03

Well , I was going to say not to get political . He was the chairman of the RNC from 1918 to 1921 . That happened to pop up . And we'll just leave it at that

Tony Maietta 12:14

So thank you for indulging me in that brief history . Now we can actually talk about the movie that we're here to talk about , which is from 1933 , Baby Face .

Tony Maietta 12:22

But one more thing I want to say . One more thing I want to say , but it's about Baby Face . So even though Babyface was made in 1933 , before the code was strictly enforced Baby Face was so out there I mean , they pushed that envelope so far out that Baby Face was actually censored . Actually , there are two versions of Baby Face . There's the pre-release version and the release version , and there were cuts made in the pre-release version in order for it to play in theaters , because there were still states that were censoring films . So Baby Face could never have played in some of these more conservative states the way it was when it was first created . So there were cuts made in Babyface , but we'll go into that a little bit later , I think .

Brad Shreve 13:10

Yeah , I did see an article from back then that Iowa banned the film . Yeah , yeah , I'm sure no surprise .

Tony Maietta 13:17

You know they don't want Barbara Stanwyck doing that stuff in their theaters in Iowa . So , Brad , now that I've gone on and on and on about and explained to everybody what the Code is , why don't you tell us a little bit about what this film Baby Face ?

Brad Shreve 13:35

I will say it's scandalous . It is so fun . I mean we sat there . It was my husband , Maurice , and I and his mom . We sat there and watched it and we laughed and laughed . And it's not supposed to be a comedy , this film . Knowing it was from 1933 and the scandalous way that Barbara Stanwyck acted , we just were aghast and it was hysterical . So Barbara Stanwyck is in this industrial town . It's kind of later . She says Erie in the film , so we're kind of presuming it was Erie Pennsylvania .

Tony Maietta 13:59

And I love that as somebody who's from northwestern . Pennsylvania Go Erie oh .

Brad Shreve 14:05

I didn't know that .

Tony Maietta 14:07

Oh , you didn't know that . Yes , yes , I had no clue . That's why I love the fact that she's from Erie Pennsylvania .

Brad Shreve 14:13

Well , I will tell you she had a lovely view out her window . She kept gazing out the window . They looked like they lived on the grounds of this factory . They were always showing this big industrial building with smokestacks and they didn't live in a very nice neighborhood . We'll put it that way .

Tony Maietta 14:28

Did you love it when she would blow the dust off the plants out the window ?

Brad Shreve 14:33

Yeah , so we're really seeing where she's starting out .

Tony Maietta 14:35

Air quality not good .

Brad Shreve 14:37

No , not good at all . This is during prohibition , so her dad is running an illegal gambling drinking house in their home and it's quite a busy place and all the guys there are obviously blue-collar workers , grunting guys and grabbing at Barbara Stanwyck . And what's really shocking is it's not even hinted at . It's very clear that he has been pimping out his daughter since she was 14 years old , .

Tony Maietta 15:04

Yes , you want to know something even more interesting than that , although I don't know how you can get . But yes , he's prostituting his own child , pimping her out since she's 14 . That was a suggestion of Barbara Stanwyck . Oh , my goodness , isn't that amazing , because Barbara Stanwyck had a little input . I have a little bit about this .

Tony Maietta 15:19

This film had a story by Mark Canfield , but Mark Canfield but Mark Canfield is a excuse , my French a nom de plume for Daryl Zanuck . Daryl Zanuck came up with the story . Daryl Zanuck was head of production at Warner Brothers at this time . So Barbara Stanwyck , born Ruby Stevens in 1907 , in New York , had a pretty rough life , not that much different than Lily Powers , and her mother died when she was a young child . She actually fell out of a streetcar and hit her head Terrible Wow , poor thing . And her father abandoned the family not long after that . So thankfully , ruby's older sister took Ruby and her young brother in . But still , Barbara Stanwyck had to scrabble to survive . Now , I don't think she did what Lily Powers does in this film , but she still had to work hard . So she still had to rough and tumble and hardscrabble life .

Tony Maietta 16:15

She did burlesque and she was a showgirl and she eventually climbed her way up to Broadway and onto Hollywood . But I just want to say that I just wanted to point out that Barbara Stanwyck actually suggested the part about her father pimping her out , because that was part of Barbara Stanwyck's persona she was a tough broad even at this point .

Brad Shreve 16:32

That really surprises me . I had no idea , Tony . I'm stopping our conversation real quick .

Tony Maietta 16:38

Why we're in the middle of a podcast .

Brad Shreve 16:41

But this is about the podcast and it's very important , Okay .

Brad Shreve 16:46

Oka Listener , whatever app you're listening on , whether it's on the computer or on the phone , reach your finger or your mouse over . It usually says follow . Some still say subscribe and click that . And what's going to happen when they do that , Tony ?

Tony Maietta 17:03

They're going to get notified when a new episode is available and they can listen to us again . You know , I don't want to miss that . No , can we get back to the episode that we were recording ? Of course , please . Of course , all right , thank you . Don't forget to subscribe and follow .

Brad Shreve 17:16

There you go . Before I continue with the movie , I want to read a quote in this bar that her father ran in their home . She had a friend who was a cobbler . He would read Nietzsche . And so here is a quote from Nietzsche that he reads , and this is very important to this film "All life , no matter how we idealize it , is nothing more nor less than exploitation , and she runs with this . She willingly exploits herself to move up the ladder .

Tony Maietta 17:46

That's just another . One of the wild things about this movie is that you have a Nietzsche sprouting cobbler giving her life advice From will to power . By the way , god is dead . Exploit yourself , you know , master slave morality . It's just insane . She's getting advice from this guy . That's Nietzsche In 1933 , it's astounding to me , astounding .

Brad Shreve 18:09

And he continues to coach her from long distance Not a whole lot , but periodically pops back in the film to coach her , encouraging her . Now , I don't think he knows exactly what she's doing . She never flat out tells him what she's doing , but she is doing what he's telling her to do , based on what Nietzsche said .

Tony Maietta 18:31

He says to her , he says exploit yourself , use men to get the things you want . And she does . What else could he mean by that ? You know , yeah , full stop . Okay , that's what I'm going to do . So I don't , I look , I hate , I don't hate . But I don't want to be a podcast that , like , gives plot , like and this happened , and this happened . But you kind of have to in Baby Face because it's so much a part of this . Yeah , telling you what happens is just giving you an idea of how crazy this film is . So we might have to do a little plot regurgitation here .

Tony Maietta 19:04

I think we have to Anyway what happens is that her father , the bootlegger slash pimp , tries to set her up with this politician , which she's not having any of because she's got all this Nietzsche in her head . She's done , she's thinking about this Nietzsche ? Yeah , she's kind of done . So he leaves , everybody leaves the speakeasy and this politician is trying to make time with Barbara Sandwick . She's not having any of it . First she smacks him and then she casually walks away and opens a bottle and pours herself a beer . She's so nonchalant about it I think it's kind of funny . And then he comes around again and tries to get it from the back and she clubs him over the head with a bottle .

Brad Shreve 19:44

And then she walks away again .

Tony Maietta 19:46

She's so unemotional . It's almost funny how unemotional she is and that's why I think and I know you said it's not a comedy , but I think there's a , there's a , and we can talk about this more later . But I think there's a facet of this which is kind of like commenting . I feel like Stanwyck is commenting on some of this . I mean , she's so non-emotional , she's so nonchalant when she does these things . It's almost like she's saying I know this is ridiculous too , but anyway . So the father comes back , he's very upset because the politician is going to threaten to call the cops on him and shut down his business . And just at that moment there's a problem with his still and he runs down to fix his still and of course the still explodes and there's a fire and the father's gone . So bye-bye , child pimp .

Brad Shreve 20:33

So this Lily Powers is finally free , and Tony mentioned that she is cold To me . She is Rhoda Penmark , from the Bad Seed , grown up

Tony Maietta 20:48

I love that .

Brad Shreve 20:49

Rhoda has grown up and taken on the world .

Tony Maietta 20:53

Well , Rhoda's a little bit of a psychopath , though . Barbara Stanley doesn't kill people like Rhoda does over a pair of shoes .

Brad Shreve 20:59

She doesn't kill people , but she has no emotion , and when people are killed in front of her , she doesn't bat an eye .

Tony Maietta 21:06

Well , I think the man who's been prostituting her since she was a child doesn't bat an eye .

Brad Shreve 21:10

That is kind of what the cobbler said . He says not just use men instead of men using you . And men have been using her most of her life .

Tony Maietta 21:17

Yes , yes , use men , yes , use men to get what you want before they use you . She does say at a later point in the movie that all the gentleness and kindness has been killed in her . So there's definitely somebody who's been through great trauma and we're obviously not going to be a psychoanalytic podcaster but obviously a woman who's been through great trauma . So she's completely detached from her emotions . That's how she's able to do these things . So she goes to see the cobbler again . He reads her some more Nietzsche , Will to Power , and that's when she decides she needs to go make her way . And she will make her way by using men to get what she wants .

Brad Shreve 21:53

And one thing I want to bring up that I was really impressed with is her friend the maid .

Tony Maietta 21:59

Oh yes , yes , I'm glad you brought her up . Yes , Chico , Chico , yes .

Brad Shreve 22:03

She is a Black woman and of course , given that era , she is a maid . I'm impressed because to me it's very advanced . She not only is the maid , she's Barbara Stanwyck's friend . She is , she is her friend and she's treated mostly as an equal , as much as society would allow her to be an equal given that era .

Tony Maietta 22:20

Yeah , yeah , at one point in fact , when Barbara Stanwyck's father , before he's killed , wants to fire Chico because she dropped some glasses , she says if Chico goes , I go .

Brad Shreve 22:30

Yes .

Tony Maietta 22:31

And so she has Chico on that level . So Chico is definitely her companion in her cohort and it is a very I mean there's the horrible stereotypical , lazy maid stereotypes in the very beginning . But you're right , the important thing is that Chico is her friend , her companion through life , through this entire film . She's with Chico .

Brad Shreve 22:52

We'll get into detail of how she moves up the ladder , talking about Barbara Stanwyck's character . But she has Chico with her the whole time and , yes , chico is the maid the whole time . But she's dressing better , she is looking better , she is more a participant . So , given that time period , she was still that station in life . But Lily is pulling Chico up with her and that was rare at that time in the movies .

Tony Maietta 23:17

Yeah , she's in with Lily for this ride . Yes , she takes Chico with her , which I agree with you , which I think is wonderful . Actually , it's a hallmark of these pre-code . These strong female friendships are in quite a few pre-code films and that's unfortunately something that we kind of lost when the code came down , where these strong female characters with these strong relationships and obviously very sexual ones , which kind of leads us to how she gets to new york , do you want to tell people a little bit about how lily powers and chico get to

Brad Shreve 23:51

This York the one that really caught us off guard . After lily's father dies in the explosion of the still , she and Chico decide to go to the big city . I guess it is New York . Is it really ever said it's ?

Tony Maietta 24:01

New York . Well , it's called Gotham National Bank , so I mean I'm pretty sure it's New York . There's shots where it's definitely New York yeah .

Brad Shreve 24:09

So it's in the Superman universe .

Tony Maietta 24:12

Plus Erie New York . It's only six hours , so there you go .

Brad Shreve 24:15

Yeah , there you go , You're probably right . So she and Chico . Well , she's going to go to the big city and she takes Chico along . So they get on a boxcar , an empty boxcar , and they're going to ride the rails to the big city . And the watchman , who is inspecting different cars , and he comes in and he finds Lily and Chico there , so naturally he's going to throw them off . He tells them both , he's going to throw them off , but he grabs Chico and is actually somewhat violent with her . We'll just say the way they stay on the car is Chico sings this little song she does throughout the movie and she walks over to the other end of the boxcar while Lily brings the watchman over the other end of the boxcar into the darkness and we don't see a lot , but we do see the lantern and we see the watchman's gloves be placed down and the lantern gets turned off and I think we all know what happened .

Tony Maietta 25:13

And next thing you know , they're in New York . It worked .

Brad Shreve 25:18

She bought them

Tony Maietta 25:21

know what's funny . The song that Chico's always singing is St Louis Woman . She sings it through the entire movie and it makes you wonder why didn't they name this film St Louis Woman , because she sings it the entire time .

Brad Shreve 25:33

I was thinking the same thing , because St Louis is a very industrial town , or definitely was at that time period .

Tony Maietta 25:37

Yeah , but it's definitely New York . Oh , yeah , I know that they're in New York , you know . And now , what are they going to do ? They haven't eaten , and Chico actually says that . She says that she's hungry . They haven't eaten in a day . And Lily employs a Nietzsche-esque idea , an idea from Nietzsche of mind over matter says you know , don't think about it . You know , or something like that you ate yesterday and they come upon . What did they come upon Brad .

Brad Shreve 26:04

They come upon a . There's a limousine or what the equivalent of a limousine was at that time period a very upscale car , and a woman comes out who's dressed to the nines and she gets in the car and I think chico says something like how did she get there ? And I don't know her exact words , but Lily pretty much lets it be known she's gonna make it happen that's , that's what she wants .

Brad Shreve 26:29

That's her goal , so her goal is in mind that is what she wants , and she does make it happen , yeah , so she comes upon this policeman standing in front of the gotham national bank .

Tony Maietta 26:34

She looks at the gotham national bank and she does make it happen . Yeah , so she comes upon this policeman standing in front of the Gotham National Bank . She looks at the Gotham National Bank and she walks up to the policeman and gives him that look . I'm like is she going to sleep with the policeman now ? She just wants to know if he can help her get a job inside the bank . I'm like , well , is he a personnel officer as well ? I don't understand that logic . But he does tell her to go to the personnel office around the corner , I think on 47th . So it's New York , and so that's exactly what she does . And she goes into the personnel office

Brad Shreve 27:07

spacing-y: building . this is important because that is not the last time we see the exterior of this building

Tony Maietta 27:14

No , we don't . I think that's probably the second star of Bface face is the building she's working in , and we'll tell you why in a minute . So gets gets to the personnel office and she runs . She walks in the personnel office and she says something about is this where you get jobs ? And some girl goes this is where you ask for jobs . So you know it's the depression , there aren't a lot of jobs . And there's this little chubby personnel agent called Mr Pratt sitting there and she spies her prey and she walks up to him and gives him the eye and says I'd really like to get a job in here . Well , you know what ? She's already proven that her new credo in life worked with the watchman on the train in the boxcar , and it has the same kind of effect on Mr Pratt . And she says she hates crowds . It's much too crowded in the personnel office , although I didn't see anybody else in there , let's go in the back and talk about this .

Brad Shreve 28:09

And this was actually to me really more suggestive than the watchman , because she walks over . Mr Pratt is in an outer office .

Tony Maietta 28:18

Yes .

Brad Shreve 28:18

And she walks over to this other office that's more enclosed and she opens the door and gives him this seductive look and walks into the room .

Tony Maietta 28:27

Yeah .

Brad Shreve 28:27

She had no real reason to go in that office , except for one motive .

Tony Maietta 28:31

That look , that look that she gives that look . That's kryptonite . Yes To all men . No one could resist her . I wish it's pre-code . I wish he would have come up against a gay character

Tony Maietta 28:47

anyway , but I digress , but it would have been funny . So obviously it works , because this is , and this is a hallmark of Baby , baby faces , and this is what we meant when we said the building is the second star of baby face because she's in the personnel department . And suddenly we get a shot of the exterior of the building and it says personnel department on the window and the camera pulls back and goes , it pans up to the floor above which says filing department , and the camera moves in and she's in the filing department . So number two worked . She went up the tier , she did , she moved her way up to the filing department and there's an actor in the filing department and I wonder , brad , if you recognized the actor in in that , in that scene .

Brad Shreve 29:31

And considering that this guy was a conservative asshole and I'm talking about conservative he was a racist pig I was absolutely shocked to see him and I thought , well , he didn't have sex wit her . But at the end it is hinted that she did , but you don't actually see it . But he is taken by her . That is quite obvious . And we are talking about John Wayne . Yes , not Cowboy John Wayne . We're talking about John Wayne , who's kind of a secondary character as far as his job goes in the suit .

Tony Maietta 30:01

Here's the interesting thing about that character , about John Wayne's character . He plays Jimmy McCoy . That's his name , you're right . You're like is that that's John ?

Tony Maietta 30:07

Wayne you know , and the voice is obvious . Yes , yes , once you hear the voice , you're like oh my God , that's John Wayne . And here's what's important about the John Wayne character , about Jimmy McCoy he is the first person to call her Babyface . Because , as I said before , why is this film called Babyface ? It should be called St Louis Woman , but he calls her Babyface . I did not catch that . So that's the importance of John Wayne's character .

Tony Maietta 30:32

And , yes , it is implied and I'm not sure and I'm a film historian but I don't know everything , I'm not sure if there was a scene that was cut . It's not in the list of scenes that were cut because of censorship . So there may have been a scene that was cut which implied that she had slept with him already because he was definitely pushing her forward . He was talking to his boss , mr Brody , about her , and so he was definitely picking up the gauntlet for her and saying what do you think about this girl ? What do you think about this girl ? And Mr Brody's not having any of it . He's like I don't care , I don't care . And Barbara Stanwyck sees this happening and walks over to Jimmy McCoy , to John Wayne , and Mr Brody gets a good look at Stanwyck and that's all it takes . And like all men , like all men , he suddenly thinks that maybe he might be able to help her , maybe he might be able to come see me , maybe he can do some good for her .

Brad Shreve 31:31

So one thing interesting to note about John Wayne's character is that , unlike other men in this film , he wasn't he wasn't just attracted to her physically , which they all . They are completely helpless by Barbara Stanwyck's looks . He also is one of the few that didn't immediately fall in love with her , because and that's obvious , because he is pushing her onto his boss Like here . I had this great dish . It's time for you to have some fun .

Tony Maietta 31:55

No , I don't think he's pushing her on for sexual advances . I think he's pushing , he's promoting her for job advancement . I think he is in love with her . Good point , because if you notice , when she moves up and again , the camera pulls back up from the filing department to the next level , which is now the mortgage department , which is Mr Brody's department . And if you notice , john Wayne comes and visits her and she's like I don't have time for you , she's done with him . So he did fall in love with her . So yeah , he was . But she's now in the mortgage department with Mr Brody and if you notice , she looks a lot sharper . She got herself a little perm , she's a little Marcel Du , she's got this ridiculous frilly thing on , but she's clearly . Her plan is clearly working because she is moving up the ladder and now she's in the mortgage department .

Brad Shreve 32:42

She is dressing better and looking better , but nothing compared to what's to come .

Tony Maietta 32:46

Oh , God , no , oh God , no , Just wait , Just wait . So she's in the mortgage department and Mr Brody wants to . You know he's having a difficult time . He's married , as well as all these men are married , but they are helpless in the hands of Lily Powers' power . It's interesting , her name is Lily Powers .

Tony Maietta 33:06

She's got this ridiculous power over men . So eventually they go back into the ladies' room , because you know he can't wait , he can't hold himself back . Ladies room , because you know he can't wait , he can't hold himself back . And who should walk in the office , the empty office , but his boss , mr stevens , played by actor donald cook , and there's no one to be found , and he looks and we don't see it , but he sees them in a somewhat must be a compromising situation in the ladies ladies' room .

Brad Shreve 33:35

Well , that actually really blew my mind , because the office was closed , everybody left to go home and they go to the ladies' rooms to have sex .

Tony Maietta 33:44

Yeah , well , I mean she wants .

Brad Shreve 33:46

I mean this is yeah , it's clearly all part of her plan for upward mobility , and she really takes gambles throughout this movie , which I know we'll get to With each step , each man that she seduces that helps her up . Her goal , then , is to destroy him , to advance even further , which is a real gamble .

Tony Maietta 34:06

I don't know if it's her goal to destroy them , but she doesn't care if she does , no but she's using them before they use her ,

Brad Shreve 34:11

Mr Stevens , she purposely has him get caught by his fiance . That was a gamble , she could have been hit the streets , right , so okay .

Tony Maietta 34:19

So Mr Stevens tells Brody he's fired . You know , get out of here . And he's going to fire Barbara . He's going to fire Lily . But Lily's like what was I to do ? He's my boss , you know , which is kind of very un-PC with sexual harassment , but there you go . What was I to do ? He was my boss , she plays the victim well .

Tony Maietta 34:41

Yes , she does . So of course he falls for it and the camera moves back and goes to the next level , which is Mr Stevens' department , which is the accounting department . Now Mr Stevens is not only the head of the accounting department , he's engaged to the vice president of the bank's daughter . So Lily has some quick thinking to do here , because the secretary outside Mr Stevens' office says she won't get anywhere with him . He loves his fiance . You want to bet ?

Brad Shreve 35:14

I love the other secretaries in this film because they all knew what she was up to and they found it very distasteful and they loved the gossip . They loved the gossip .

Tony Maietta 35:22

They loved the gossip .

Brad Shreve 35:22

They didn't stop her because they loved talking about it .

Tony Maietta 35:24

They loved talking about it . They knew that she was going to get away with it , so it's kind of tricky . Now she's got Mr Stevens who is again engaged to the vice president of the bank's daughter , but of course Ned falls for it because the next scene is in her kind of shabby apartment . But it's an apartment . It's the first apartment we've seen that she's had . You know , her plan is working , she's moving up and they're having , you know , they're having cocktails and she's in , you know , a somewhat suggestive attire and I thought this was very funny and this is why this movie I know , we know it's not a comedy but one of the things there's some very , very funny situations in it and Ned pours a drink for her , some beer for her , and she says , oh no , I never touch the stuff . And he says just a sip , so she downs it .

Brad Shreve 36:11

Yes , and that's not the last time she does that .

Tony Maietta 36:15

No , that's not the last time she does that either . Oh no , I never drink so and Brody , who's lost his job in the Depression because of her , comes knocking at the door . You know , I have to see you , I have to see you , and she's like we can't see each other . You know , move on . And so she's got rid of him and his life is destroyed . I don't think she set out to destroy it , but she doesn't care that it is destroyed .

Brad Shreve 36:36

And none of these men , after she casts them aside , are able to control themselves and have to have her back .

Tony Maietta 36:42

No , and I think that's something we need to talk about with Barbara Stanwyck is Barbara Stanwyck wasn't a stereotypical great beauty . She was an attractive woman . Clearly she had a fantastic body because she was a dancer , you know but all she's got to do is show that leg and she's incredibly thin . She looks fantastic in some of those outfits . She's incredibly thin .

Brad Shreve 37:02

And she's not busty at all . Not busty at all , no , no , but she actually got much more attractive as she got older , I think .

Tony Maietta 37:10

She got a certain regalness as she got older , I think .

Brad Shreve 37:14

Yes , in Big Valley I thought she was very attractive . My dad is from a different era . He always said that Barbara Stanwyck was as ugly as a mud fence . She is not that bad looking . I thought okay , maybe when I see the older movies she'll really look bad . She never looked that bad , but obviously my dad thought so yeah , she's still a very attractive woman . But she was not a traditional knockout beauty ?

Tony Maietta 37:36

She's not . She's not Joan Crawford , she's not Loretta Young . You know , she's not the great beauties of this era and I think that's one of the reasons why she's such a smart choice for Lily Powers , because of the fact that she's so tough and , as I said before , she's kind of commenting on this like do you believe this ? I'm getting away with this and I was thinking of some of these other actresses who were quite prominent during the pre-code era , and I was thinking about Joan Crawford and I'm like could Joan Crawford have ? And no , joan Crawford would have been so earnest and so sincere . There's no way Joan Crawford could have played this . Barbara Stanwyck has that sardonic attitude that makes this character work and that's why I think she's such a great choice for this . But anyway , she's in the accounting department now and she's got to figure out how she's going to move up to the next step and she knows that Ned is engaged , that Ned has a fiancé who might be coming down to see him . What should she do ?

Brad Shreve 38:33

now I think maybe it's a good idea to have him catch me , Ted , with her fiancé have the fiance catch them together , and that's exactly what she does .

Tony Maietta 38:46

That's such a calculated risk . Don't you think that could have so blown up in her face ?

Brad Shreve 38:50

That is what really ? Because it was a calculated risk . This is where it could have all fallen apart . She takes the risk , but she took the risk and it paid off .

Tony Maietta 38:58

She takes the risk . The fiance catches them , runs up to her father . The vice president of the bank tells him what happened and of course you know Ned is freaking out . Ned gets called up there , called to the carpet , but he's not fired . He's not let go . He's told he's got to let Lily go and he can't do it , and this is really a sign of the times .

Brad Shreve 39:18

You would think her future father-in-law would have fired him , but it's almost like he has this attitude . Well , men will be men . It really is , and he doesn't fire this man .

Tony Maietta 39:28

He's like , yeah , you know , I get it . Okay fine , Okay fine , you know , men's got to play around . Even though you're engaged to my daughter and she just left my office in tears , boys will be boys , yeah . So he says , send the young woman up to me and you're like , uh-oh , this is , is it ? This guy's goose is cooked . Because here comes lily . This is one of my favorites too . It is , it is . It's a . It's a very funny scene . Because here comes walking kryptonite . No man , all these titans of industry cannot , cannot resist Lily Powers . It's so funny . So she goes up to see him and , of course , puts on the entire act of I . You know what was I supposed to do ? I didn't know what to do , but while she's giving him her sob story , she crosses her leg .

Brad Shreve 40:18

Isn't she adjusting her stockings or something of that nature ?

Tony Maietta 40:21

No , she's crying and she she's fake crying , but she's pretending to cry and she crosses her leg . You know the leg that launched a thousand ships .

Brad Shreve 40:28

Yeah , we see the light on her leg , so we see the vice president's face and we see her legs and we know he's doomed .

Tony Maietta 40:36

Yes , he is , and actually the vice president's name is JP Carter . He's played by a wonderful character actor named Henry Kolker , who I think is just , is , is . So he's just a fussy , fuddy-duddy type guy . He's just , he's a little befuddled . He's a little like the wizard in the Wizard of Oz . He's a little befuddled . You're wondering how's this guy running a bank ? He's the vice president of a bank , but anyway , he can't resist that leg and she's putting on her sawback . And here's another funny moment where he says where do you live ? And she stops crying and turns to him and gives him her phone number Immediately . There's not even a break . I love that . I love that . It's just like there's these little moments of brilliance . So of course he goes to see her and what do you suppose happens ?

Brad Shreve 41:20

What , Tony , what ?

Tony Maietta 41:24

She becomes his kept woman . Lily Powers is in her fabulous new I'm assuming it's a penthouse . She's got a butler , you know , got the jewels and the furs , and Chico is in wonderful , wonderful uniform , beautiful uniform and she's . She's been set up by JP Carter and Carter . And who should show up but Ned ? Uh-oh , JP Carter's future son-in-law .

Brad Shreve 41:53

And if you want to see how cold this woman is , this is the scene that really shows it . Well , he has to see her .

Tony Maietta 41:59

He must see her . Why is she ignoring him ? He must see her . And she said that's done , that's over , you've got to go away . And he wants her to marry him . And he looks down and he sees two glasses and he realizes she ain't alone in that apartment , so he busts in he busts his way in .

Brad Shreve 42:16

He busts his way in , he pulls out his gun and his future father-in-law is dead , but then he is overcome with grief and he turns the gun on himself . We don't see any of this , but we do see her walk in and see the bodies lying down . Not a grimace , not a tear , just matter of fact . Huh , there's bodies there .

Tony Maietta 42:36

No , she just calmly , nonchalantly , as she has in every other instance , like when she hit the guy over the head with the bottle turns she sees Ned's dead body , which I'm not sure why he brought a gun , if he was going to propose to her , but anyway that's a minor minor plot point .

Tony Maietta 42:52

Looks in the bathroom and sees the body of JP Carter , the bank vice president also dead Turns , we get a fabulous profile shot of her with that incredible perm she now has , Walks over to the phone , picks up and says very calmly there's been an accident . You better call for the police , like she was ordering food to be delivered .

Brad Shreve 43:15

Very clear she doesn't give a shit about anybody except Chico , maybe .

Tony Maietta 43:19

So now is a real problem because there's a scandal and the papers tell us that . We suddenly get the papers saying double tragedy in Love Nest . So now we're with the board of directors , so she actually has gotten to the very top of the building and there's a board of directors meeting and they are in a frenzy because of this tragedy that happened in their bank . How are they going to fix this ? What are they going to do ?

Brad Shreve 43:46

And it is brought up that this is the depression . So they know that they're always teetering on the edge at all times .

Tony Maietta 43:50

Right and banks are failing left and right , so they're in a panic . You know this is now a scandal that could bring down this bank . What are they going to do ? They decided to hire a new president to handle this , to take over the bank , to take the taint off of the scandal , someone who's going to take control . But it's not just any new vice president , it's also the grandson of the man who founded the bank and the playboy , and it's George Brent . Finally , after all this time , we finally meet George Brent , who is second billed in this film because he was George Brent .

Brad Shreve 44:21

That's what's so funny . He'd had second billing , but he doesn't show up , till like towards the end . I thought that was so funny .

Tony Maietta 44:27

Looking good too . You know , george Brent was kind of like the poor man's Clark Gable , if you notice he was . You know he was a Warner Brothers contract player for years . He did a lot of films with Betty Davis . He did Dark Victory with Betty Davis . He was in the Great Lie with Betty Davis . She was always doing Betty Davis was always doing George Brent wrong in some way or another . But this is Barbara Stanwyck's turn to do George Brent wrong . So George Brent is the new president of the bank . His name is Cortland Trentholm and he has come in to save the bank . And they have called Lily Powers into the office of the board of directors to discuss what exactly to do , because Lily has been offered $10,000 for her story by the papers . Or was she ? If the story gets out , it's a scandal , a real scandal .

Brad Shreve 45:15

But was she really offered that .

Tony Maietta 45:17

I think she was To me .

Brad Shreve 45:19

That's kind of vague , like she's playing them with that .

Tony Maietta 45:22

Well , george Brent sees through

Brad Shreve 45:26

Oh , yes , he does . That's the real issue . Well , he's a playboy , he can pick up on that .

Tony Maietta 45:29

Yeah Well , I mean , he's the first man who can actually see through her . I don't think she was bluffing . I think she was getting greedy because they said the only thing the board of directors agrees they're going to give her $10,000 . She goes oh no , didn't you hear They've raised it to $15,000 . I can't possibly go for less than $10,000 . And I think that's what tips George Brent off . This is the first time her greed didn't pay off .

Tony Maietta 45:53

Exactly , I think it tips George Brent off and he's like okay , we got to handle this a different way , because this won't be the end of this . If we pay this woman off , she'll come back in some way . We've got to figure out what we're doing . So he calls her bluff . Maybe it's a bluff , but maybe it's not . I don't think it is , but maybe it is . He calls her bluff because she says to him all she wanted was the chance to earn an honest living . So he catches that and he says you know what ? That was her mistake . That was her mistake . I'll give you a chance to earn an honest living . We're not going to give you $10,000 , but we will transfer you to our Paris office , pay for your transportation and give you the opportunity to earn that honest living you just wanted to make so badly .

Brad Shreve 46:35

And , if you haven't figured it out , an honest living is the last thing she's interested in .

Tony Maietta 46:39

Exactly , and she accepts it . Her goose is cooked . This is it . Her goose is cooked . This is it . Her goose is cooked . She thinks they're not going to get the money . She's not going to get the money from them . So she accepts their offer to move to Paris , I believe , because she's going to lie in wait in Paris . Plus , at the beginning of the movie she talks about where am I going to go ? She had $4 after her father was killed . Where am I going to go , Paris ? Well , here's an opportunity for her to go to Paris .

Brad Shreve 47:05

So I don't think it's given how much time has passed , but George Brent's character , cortland , does go to the Paris office and there she is working , and it doesn't seem like she was using her feminine wiles to move up . She's working . I guess she's selling real estate , is she not ? No ?

Tony Maietta 47:22

well , she works in the travel department , but if you notice , she's suddenly fluent in French . Yes , she can speak French to her co-workers . She could have been there a while . For all we know , she's been there a while , so she had to learn French . So , yes , and he's shocked that she's still there . He comes to visit .

Brad Shreve 47:46

He's coming to visit the Paris branch and try to have a stable life Interesting . That's a good question Slept up in the air . We don't know .

Tony Maietta 47:53

I don't , yeah , I don't think so . I think that we're looking really deeply into this cheapy Warner Brothers film that was made in 1933 for character motivations .

Brad Shreve 48:02

In what less than three weeks this film was made .

Tony Maietta 48:09

The point is is that he shows up , he's surprised that she stuck it out and kind of impressed and she's like , yeah , but if you notice , remember , when she leaves and it's raining really hard outside and there's a cab that comes to pick her up and she flags it off , she's like no , go go , I don't want . And she stands there in the rain , she's waiting for George Brent to come out to offer her a ride and she goes . You can't ever get a taxi when it's raining in Paris .

Brad Shreve 48:33

Not when you wave them off .

Tony Maietta 48:34

So he takes her home , he takes her to her flat and a few days later they have dinner and it's happening again . She is working her magic and George Brent is falling for her . And he does , he falls for her .

Brad Shreve 48:48

And I got to say this is where I think the plot does fall apart somewhat .

Tony Maietta 48:52

This is where the plot falls apart ?

Brad Shreve 49:00

Well , but given his history as a playboy , I don't think it would have worked with him , based on what we know of him . But anyway , this is not a film about character ,

Tony Maietta 49:08

that's for sure . Yes , this isn't interiors , woody Allen's interiors , where we're talking about character , motivations and psychological no , not at all . This is baby face 1933 . So , anyway , he falls for her . But he offers to take her all these places and she goes . I thought you were different than everybody else . So he takes her away on a cruise , a private cruise , probably on a barge , and he's clearly fallen for her . But he does not want to marry her . He wants to keep her , anything she wants . I mean , she really has the world at her disposal with him , all except for one thing he wants to keep her . He doesn't want to marry her , but that's not good enough for her . She wants all the marbles , all the marbles . In the most romantic line in the entire movie , she says I'd like to have a missus on my tombstone . You make my heart melt when you say something like that . Stop sweet-talking me , barbara . I'd like to have a missus on my tombstone . That's her proposal to him of marriage . And he does . He marries her .

Brad Shreve 50:08

But it's funny because she's also kind of said even if it's just for a few years , y

Tony Maietta 50:15

What's the big deal ?

Brad Shreve 50:16

She wants to have a missus on her tombstone and she wants the money from a divorce . Is what she wants ?

Tony Maietta 50:21

She wants , yeah , well , yeah , she wants to be set up for life , basically , and she's probably thinking about all the alimonies you could get from him if he does indeed marry her , and he does . He marries her and they're ensconced in this fabulous Paris apartment and suddenly he gets a transatlantic phone call from the bank . The bank is in crisis . He has to go back to New York immediately .

Brad Shreve 50:42

Not only are they in crisis , they also saw the headline from Paris that he has married her Exactly . So they aren't happy about that either .

Tony Maietta 50:50

I'm so glad you brought that up . That's right , he married that bank . Hotsy totsy , the president of the bank , married the bank slut .

Brad Shreve 50:57

Who got them already in scandal with two murders or a double murder , I guess .

Tony Maietta 51:02

So they're in scandal again and the bank is failing . So he rushes back to New York . They both rush back to New York and he goes to see the board of directors and he's going to be indicted . And he comes back to their fabulous apartment At this moment Lily is lounging on her chaise in a fabulous outfit . She goes in the back unpacking all of her many steamer trunks . She goes in the back unpacking all of her many steamer trunks and she opens up her valise and in her valise are jewels and bonds and stocks and money . And she says conveniently , she says to Chico half a million dollars , I won't rest until I get the other half . So she's still got her plot going on . But then just then George Brent comes in and says I've been indicted , I need a half a million dollars .

Brad Shreve 51:50

And we get too bad so sad . Go on , too bad so sad .

Tony Maietta 51:57

she does , she can't do it . She can't do it . She has a real crisis moment . She can't do it and she says to him I'll be left with nothing . She doesn't say she doesn't have it , she says she won't do it . I kind of love her honesty .

Brad Shreve 52:14

Yeah , I thought for sure she would say I don't have it . But I kept waiting for her to say that , but she never did . She just let him know you can't have it , it's mine now .

Tony Maietta 52:22

Yeah , she's just as cold as cold can be .

Brad Shreve 52:26

And I was kind of wondering if she was going to get murdered as a result of that . I was like , okay , is he going to kill her ?

Tony Maietta 52:31

Well , she's cold , as cold as can be , and that's when she says all the kindness she says she's not like other women , all the gentleness and kindness has been killed in her and she's going to head back to Paris . She tells Chico to repack those suitcases , repack those trunks . We're headed out of here again . And she heads and she just leaves George Brent to face prison and she gets back on board the ship and Chico's unpacking the trunks again , singing St Louis Woman in the background , and she's obviously , there's obviously something on her mind For the first time . Maybe she's second-guessing her choices .

Brad Shreve 53:07

And for the first time she's nasty to Chico .

Tony Maietta 53:09

And she is . She's nasty to Chico because she doesn't understand why she's having these Suddenly . She's got these things called feelings which she didn't think she had anymore , and she's gazing down at the record player and as the turntable's going around , table's going around , we get a bass relief of all of her former assignations . We get in order of assignation . We get the guy in the boxcar , we get John Wayne's character , we get Mr Pratt , we get JP Carter .

Brad Shreve 53:40

And this is when I knew that John Wayne did have sex with her , because he was part of that lineup that went before her eyes .

Tony Maietta 53:47

Yes , exactly that's a dead giveaway that John Wayne did . But we get Mr Brody , mr Stevens . Finally we get George Brent . And that's where it stops , and that's where Lily has her catharsis , she has her aha moment . She realizes she really does love courtland . So she tells chico to pack everything up again . She's headed out . She goes chasing after courtland . She gets back to his office but it's too late . He shot himself , but is it ?

Brad Shreve 54:18

he pulled the van gogh and he shot himself in the stomach instead of the head , which is convenient for this film .

Tony Maietta 54:24

Interesting . It is convenient because he's not . You think maybe he's dead , because she screams don't leave me , cortland . She realizes she's finally come to . You know , she's like the Grinch , she's finally grown a heart . And the next scene is she's in the ambulance . The medic is administering to Cortland and he says to her he's got a good chance of making it . So we know okay , he's going to be okay . And just then her jewels , her valise that she's been carrying around with half a million dollars , falls to the floor of the ambulance and the ambulance attendant says you know , your bag dropped . And she said I don't need those anymore . And that's the end of

Brad Shreve 55:03

How did you feel about this film ? As far as the quality of this film , it's a cheapie . Yeah .

Tony Maietta 55:08

As I said before , it was made in 18 days . It had a budget of like $189,000 . You know it was a cheapie .

Brad Shreve 55:17

I absolutely loved this film . I laughed , it was joyous . We had a great time watching it , loved it . Listen , I suggest you watch it , but it is not a good film at all . It's actually somewhat dull because it's very repetitive .

Tony Maietta 55:32

It's very repetitive . I mean the plot is very repetitive because it's her moving up .

Brad Shreve 55:34

Yeah , so she moves up , she sleeps with a guy she doesn't sleep with him .

Tony Maietta 55:38

It's by no means a great artistic achievement . It's by no means the best pre-code movie , but it's become the poster child for pre-code because it's so outrageous , and so that's really why I recommend it . I don't recommend it because it's a great film . I recommend it for people to see how dirty and lascivious and salacious these pre-code movies could be , because people's minds are blown .

Brad Shreve 56:07

Just have fun with it , and I also don't think it would be as fun if it was an unknown but the fact that it's actually Barbara Stanwyck .

Tony Maietta 56:14

That it's Barbara Stanwyck . Isn't that incredible . You know all these pre-code dames Barbara Stanwyck .

Tony Maietta 56:20

Norma Shearer , who was a huge pre-code actress . Loretta Young when the code , jean Harlow , when the code came down in 34 , these women who had pretty much been playing women of healthy sexual appetites for the past four years had to change their personas . So when we see Norma Shearer today , norma Shearer has a reputation of being like a dull boring , mostly from the women , because the character she plays in the women you know is just is such a simp . You know , she's really kind of insufferable . But Norma Shearer , some of her movies in pre-code are the most salacious , the most scandalous . Loretta Young , another one who had this , who has some of the most lascivious films in the pre-code era . We think of her today if we ever think of Loretta Young as this staunch Catholic woman . You know she wouldn't even admit that her own child was her own child . She called her a walking mortal sin . So I mean , these characters , these wonderful , healthy , sexual women , all disappeared after the coat came down and that's a real , real shame as far as women in film goes , I think .

Brad Shreve 57:32

Let me tell you what I think would have made this film better . And this is just me , because this film didn't try to be anything more than what it is . It was just to be dirty . But it's only 76 minutes long , Very short , not even an hour and a half . I think if they extended a little bit longer it would never have been a great film , but it would have been a much better film . And what I would like to have seen is not Lily miraculously instantaneously realize she has a heart , kind of like you said , like the Grinch instantaneously comes out of nowhere . I would have liked to have seen her realize she's falling for George Brent's character and trying to fight it . And I would also have liked George Brent's character being that he was a playboy and knows her game , finding himself falling in love with her and also trying to fight it . Then we would have got a little bit of deepness into these characters . Because all these characters are pretty cardboard cut , Not pretty . They are all cardboard cut out , yeah .

Tony Maietta 58:28

Yeah , but you're asking a lot of a 78-minute Warner Brothers quickie from 1933 .

Brad Shreve 58:33

That's why I said it could have been longer . It would never have been great , because the whole beginning is just absurd funny .

Tony Maietta 58:39

I mean , maybe we could have skipped a floor in her ascent .

Tony Maietta 58:42

You know , I don't know which one . We'd skip the mortgage department , the accounting department , but here's okay . So here's the thing about Babyface that I want to get back to . So , even though this is a 1933 film and the code is not being enforced , babyface just pushed the envelope too far . With all this , they're like this thing is going to be cut , this thing isn't going to play in Kansas , this thing isn't going to play in Kansas . We've got to do something .

Tony Maietta 59:03

So what happened was there were changes made to Babyface . They did listen to the production code suggestions and these are the things that were cut . So we had the version that was finished , the pre-release version that we just went through the plot of for you . They cut out Obviously . They got rid of Nietzsche completely . So the release version has no Nietzsche completely . So the release version has no Nietzsche whatsoever . The cobbler is still her mentor , but he's telling her be strong , be good , but don't be bad , don't be bad , don't be dirty , be clean . So what they did was they got him to come in and overdub his lines and just showed the back of him . So they took out all Nietzsche . Obviously , the scene in the boxcar where she does whatever she does to that train attendant was completely cut out , so she just ends up in New York .

Brad Shreve 59:53

And that was so important

Tony Maietta 59:57

There's a scene when she is dating it's a scene right before the shootout when she's dating JP Carter and she's in her penthouse and it's Christmas time and she gets a book from the cobbler . That's when Chico says to her old Mr Craig from Erie sent this and in the pre-release version you can see it's Nietzsche . They don't show that in the released version . She just opens the book . She just opens the book and instead of reading Nietzsche , it's a letter inside the book from Craig saying I hear you're not following what I told you . I hear you're not being good . I hear you're misbehaving . So that's how they work that .

Brad Shreve 1:00:42

I thought you were going to tell us they inserted a Bible in there ?

Tony Maietta 1:00:44

No , that probably wouldn't have been . That probably wouldn't have flown anywhere . So , yeah , no , nietzsche , she's reading a Nietzsche book that's in the pre-released version , is called Thoughts Out of Season and it's Nietzsche , but we don't see that in the release version . So then the scene in the ship where she's gazing into the turntable of the record player and it's going around and around and around and all of her past assignations are coming back to her , in the released version it's just George Brent . She only sees one face and that's the way . This . And they added a coda , a short scene at the end . Do you want to talk about that ? A coda , a short scene at the end . Do you want to talk about that ?

Brad Shreve 1:01:26

I do know that . I saw that they wind up back in Erie down and out , basically as far as financially goes . But I presume they were happily ever after anyway .

Tony Maietta 1:01:35

Well , what they did was they tacked on a very short scene at the end . That wasn't of them . It was of the board of directors talking about the fact that she saved him , he has repaid the bank and they are now living in some industrial town , I think they say Pittsburgh . They're now living in Pittsburgh and he's one of those industrial workers and they're living a good , clean life . That scene of the board of directors was added in the pre-release version . The movie ends in the ambulance . Uh yes , but what's the problem there ? Lily has not atoned for her sins . Now , there were plenty of pre-code movies where the evildoer didn't atone for their sins . They felt the baby face was so salacious that they had to add this scene at the end that shows that the bank has been made whole and they're now living in .

Tony Maietta 1:02:27

Pittsburgh , living a clean life in a steel mill . I mean , I don't know about you , but screw that , I would have headed back to Paris .

Brad Shreve 1:02:32

I'd like to share how the original version got out , because I find that really fascinating . Yeah , the film we're talking about was before it was cut . Yeah , the pre-release version and this film , as I understand it , vanished for the most part and in 2004 , 71 years later , somebody in the Library of Congress came upon this film and I guess they looked at it and said , oh , look what we have .

Tony Maietta 1:03:00

The fact that this film survived and in the Library of Congress .

Tony Maietta 1:03:02

Nobody knew about it is mind boggling to begin with , yes , but the fact that this film survived and in the Library of Congress and nobody knew about it is mind-boggling to begin with , but the fact that this film survived because how many films we just talked about A Star Is Born and all the cuts that were made in A Star Is Born , those scenes are gone , they were destroyed . And those scenes weren't cut because of any salacious content . They were cut because they felt the movie was too long . They threw them away . They were thrown away . So the fact that we found a film , a complete version of this notorious film from 1933 , is astounding .

Brad Shreve 1:03:32

Well , and that's what I find really fascinating , it'd be one thing if they found the clips in a box and in a closet somewhere , but the fact that the one that was submitted to the Library of Congress was the pre-release version I just find really fascinating .

Tony Maietta 1:03:44

It's a small miracle that that film somehow survived all those years and ended up in the Library of Congress of all places in Dayton , ohio , of all places , and intact . So now we see because now I mean , the code's been dead now since you know 1965 . Virginia Woolf took care of that so now we can see what got these censors so up in arms , and it's just astounding , it's astounding .

Brad Shreve 1:04:13

Watch this film . If you go with with it , you'll just have a lot of fun . Even my very Catholic mother-in-law was laughing at this film .

Tony Maietta 1:04:22

Because it's so out there , it's so outrageous . Yes , you can't believe that you're watching this black and white film and this character , barbara Stanwyck , is doing these things to move ahead , and all the time she's got this smile on her face Like , just stay along for the ride , folks . It's hysterical . Next time you think , oh , you don't want to watch an old , dusty , black and white movie , I tell you what If it to watch an old , dusty , black and white movie . I tell you what if it was made between 1930 and 34 , watch it , because your mind is going to be blown . I'm glad you watched it , Brad .

Brad Shreve 1:04:53

I am very glad we watched it . Should we tell them what film I picked for you for next week ? Oh yeah , please do A little teaser . Well , you tell them , you tell them .

Tony Maietta 1:05:01

He picked Deadpool for me .

Brad Shreve 1:05:04

Tell them he picked Deadpool for me and Tony sent me an email after watching it that said wow , with four exclamation points . I reminded him that we do not talk about the films in advance . So I am dying to know , because that wow could mean a million things . It probably does it could . I am dying to know what he meant by wow .

Tony Maietta 1:05:23

It could mean I love the movie . It could mean I hate the movie . It could mean I hate the movie . It could mean wow , ryan

Brad Shreve 1:05:28

Well , I'm sure that got a . Wow , I have no doubt about that one . Stay tuned next week because it will be a fun conversation . I am absolutely certain of that .

Tony Maietta 1:05:36

Thanks for listening everybody . Hope you enjoyed Babyface . Go watch it .

Brad Shreve 1:05:43

Do you enjoy going to Hollywood ? Well , of course you do , and Tony and I would like you to do something for us and , more important , for other podcast listeners out there . Go to Apple Podcasts , itunes , spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts , and rate and review this show . A five star would be especially nice . That way , when others are looking for a new show , they'll see ours and see those reviews and they will stop and listen and boy , that will make their day . It will be much appreciated , thank you ,